Post: #26

Im with Anonymous here.

I went to an ivy league target school for wall street and consulting.

"Getting an offer" usually entails working at least 1 summer internship during college, and then, if you didnt completely suck or burn out, they would you call you back between november and march for a FT position that starts in may or june.

An "offer" is an informal but serious sign of intent on the bank's part to invest in and train you to their standards.

I agree with anonymous that its not the same thing as someone who has not done any of this or is doing nothing more than just entertaining the idea of ib. Ive had friends and classmates get anxiety attacks and lose sleep over whether they would be getting an actual offer.

After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

Post: #27

(07-24-2014 01:33 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

You'd only put all that work in for IB if you wanted to do IB in the first place.

Post: #28

(07-24-2014 01:33 AM)GyopoPlayboy Wrote:  After sacrificing so much of your health, sanity, and happiness working towards ib in college, it is highly unlikely (not impossible...just really unlikely) that you would turn down an actual fulltime offer.

Best youth ever. I get delayed gratification, but until we are physically young forever I am with Deluge throwing away your 20s means you are more in love with money and status than life. (80+ hour weeks)

If you are dedicated to helping others and are in medical school I can see the spiritual payoff.

Post: #29

All the people I know in IB are miserable, including people who've written extensive datasheets on the subject in the "manosphere".

It's all about your individual opportunity costs and the marginal benefit you derive from the money and exit opps. How can I keep improving my game and body and enjoy a great sex and social life when I'm working 80+ hours a week? I'd rather work 60 hours a week in corp/insto with the paycut that entails ($250k/yr all up in your early 30's is nothing to sneeze at though) and actually have a life.

Post: #30

It's funny how I completely agree with anonymous 1st point and then find that he's going against his own advice in point 2. Instead of "just another year" it's instead "just a few more hours". Soul killing stuff both.

Post: #31

If you've worked a typical Fortune 500 corporate gig, consulting is doing 3x as much work for 2x the pay.

Post: #32

dupe

Post: #33

Deluge isn't trying to learn anything. Apparently he has it all figured out, and not even out of college yet. Bravo.

Post: #34

(07-24-2014 08:58 AM)anonymous123 Wrote:  Deluge isn't trying to learn anything. Apparently he has it all figured out, and not even out of college yet. Bravo.

Give me one good reason why I should be miserable in my 20's if not longer doing IB over Corp. Why should I give up any chance I have of having a life just to go from making a very high income to an obscenely high income?

Post: #35

Here are a few things to think about:
- You will only be miserable if you are spending your time doing something mundane or something you don't care about. This is irrespective of whether or not you are spending 30, 40, 60, or 80+ hours a week doing it.
- For some, working on a deal isn't about logging hours, it is really exciting. You can feel like you are on a hunting team, and the spoils can be quite rewarding if your hunt is successful. You starve if you don't spear any meat. You don't get paid for clocking hours, so work as much or as little as you want to put towards that particular hunt.
- If you are on a billable hours model, you will always need to put in a certain number of hours. There are other jobs that require a "surge" of hours, but it isn't constant hours. Kind of like finals week. It is too easy to remember finals week and think you worked like that the whole semester, but in reality you didn't.
- Working hard in your 20s is mission critical to setting up a solid lifestyle. At this age you should have plenty of energy to lay the foundation of a very successful career while pumping iron, banging chicas, and drinking beer.
- If you work hard in 20s, by the time you are 30 you can work the same type of hours as most people but be making multiples. Having more money while working the same hours results in having more overall time and flexibility. If you do this right, by the age of 35 you will have both the option of working less and making more money (or, continue working hard and make even more money yet...but, it is your call).

And finally, you should never make decisions based on "I don't want to work that hard." Find something that is really interesting to you and that you are passionate about. If you are like a fish in water with your career, you won't be counting hours. Those that are still counting hours haven't found their calling.

Post: #36

All the points you made are relevant to both career paths, in fact are couple are more reasons against doing IB... What this debate comes down to is why you'd want to make a lot of money in the first place. If you just want to make as much money as possible or chase status, then things like IB and white shoe law make sense. I have no interest in that, and there are many other ways to start your own business if that's what you want to exit into. To sum it up, I would not be able to live the kind of life I want to live if I was an investment banker. That is why acting like everybody wants to work at a bulge bracket investment bank and anyone who says they don't just wasn't able to get in like you said earlier is complete bs.

Post: #37

OK, fine. I was going to be a surgeon, but decided I didn't like the sight of blood. Is that better?

Deluge, I simply don't see you trying to learn anything from older posters around here...you simply just want to show you already know everything.

Exiting thread.

Post: #38

(07-24-2014 10:24 AM)anonymous123 Wrote:  OK, fine. I was going to be a surgeon, but decided I didn't like the sight of blood. Is that better?

Deluge, I simply don't see you trying to learn anything from older posters around here...you simply just want to show you already know everything.

Quite the opposite, as I alluded to earlier it's learning from older people I know personally and older RVF members who've done or are currently in investment banking which is one of the biggest reasons why I don't want to do it.

You seem to have a problem admitting that what you said earlier was wrong when deep down you know it was, I know this precisely because you've never properly tried to defend your ludicrous position once I called it out. Don't get me wrong, I respect the success you've had, especially post-IB in your own ventures. I've made the choice that I know is right for me, hopefully you've made the choice that was right for you; just don't act like everybody wants to lead the exact same life that you did.

Post: #39

what gets lost in the discussion is IB is not just IBD. You can get recruited out of college into an i-bank for stuff like S&T and Research, too. Fewer hours than straight up IBD and you can get comparable pay (maybe not research). I have buddies in each and they seem to like their lives way more than their IBD counterparts. Conversely, my IBD friend at barclays hated his life. And he said he got laid maybe 6 times a year (he isn't straight red pill and doesn't keep in shape, but he has decent game and is aggressive. He just didn't have the time or energy).

The same goes for something like big law as well. If you do M&A or Cap Markets, expect to live around deals and offerings. Insane hours, and unrepdictable ones. If you do litigation, long hours, but more consistent and manageable. If you do ERISA or something more niche, long-ish hours, but nothing as bad as deal-related shit.

Post: #40

We've seen this before from another somewhat ranty (although generally good) forum poster who is also an IB on WS.

We are demonstrated this unfailing belief that everyone wants to be an IB, and those that don't want to are being rationalized by the people in the industry as people that don't have what it takes.
I'm not sure if this is a monstrous effort of self-delusion or if they genuinely believe this. Whatever the case their tone speaks far louder than their words.

Post: #41

Disclaimer: Goldman Sachs is not anxiously awaiting my response to their offer. They've never made me one. They're not aware of my existence.

While it's possible that those who never had an opportunity to work IBD are calling the grapes sour, it's also possible that those who did make great sacrifices to get into and stay in IBD say what they do as a form of ego preservation. Think about it. The possibility of someone not wanting to take the path of blood/sweat/tears for tons of money puts all of their life choices into question.

I don't blame them. Even I engage in a certain amount of judgement towards Starbucks baristas as I sit in my cubicle with no direct access to sunlight. If the baristas are just as happy in the end, then I'm a fucking moron.

anonymous123 Wrote:- You will only be miserable if you are spending your time doing something mundane or something you don't care about. This is irrespective of whether or not you are spending 30, 40, 60, or 80+ hours a week doing it.
- For some, working on a deal isn't about logging hours, it is really exciting. You can feel like you are on a hunting team, and the spoils can be quite rewarding if your hunt is successful. You starve if you don't spear any meat. You don't get paid for clocking hours, so work as much or as little as you want to put towards that particular hunt.

#1 is true. #2 is not for me.

Post: #42

(07-24-2014 04:02 PM)Vicious Wrote:  We've seen this before from another somewhat ranty (although generally good) forum poster who is also an IB on WS.

We are demonstrated this unfailing belief that everyone wants to be an IB, and those that don't want to are being rationalized by the people in the industry as people that don't have what it takes.
I'm not sure if this is a monstrous effort of self-delusion or if they genuinely believe this. Whatever the case their tone speaks far louder than their words.

The ironic thing is this person you speak of was by his own admission miserable.

(07-24-2014 07:47 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  While it's possible that those who never had an opportunity to work IBD are calling the grapes sour, it's also possible that those who did make great sacrifices to get into and stay in IBD say what they do as a form of ego preservation. Think about it. The possibility of someone not wanting to take the path of blood/sweat/tears for tons of money puts all of their life choices into question.

Exactly.

Post: #43

(07-24-2014 11:49 PM)Deluge Wrote:  

(07-24-2014 04:02 PM)Vicious Wrote:  We've seen this before from another somewhat ranty (although generally good) forum poster who is also an IB on WS.

We are demonstrated this unfailing belief that everyone wants to be an IB, and those that don't want to are being rationalized by the people in the industry as people that don't have what it takes.
I'm not sure if this is a monstrous effort of self-delusion or if they genuinely believe this. Whatever the case their tone speaks far louder than their words.

The ironic thing is this person you speak of was by his own admission miserable.

Westcoast? If so, I found the opposite. He was passionate about what he was doing and where he was heading.

Post: #44

(07-24-2014 10:33 AM)Deluge Wrote:  Quite the opposite, as I alluded to earlier it's learning from older people I know personally and older RVF members who've done or are currently in investment banking which is one of the biggest reasons why I don't want to do it.

You seem to have a problem admitting that what you said earlier was wrong when deep down you know it was, I know this precisely because you've never properly tried to defend your ludicrous position once I called it out. Don't get me wrong, I respect the success you've had, especially post-IB in your own ventures. I've made the choice that I know is right for me, hopefully you've made the choice that was right for you; just don't act like everybody wants to lead the exact same life that you did.

The best thing you can do is make a judgment call as to what will make you happy. Only experience will tell you if you made the right call.

At that time, it will be too late to dwell on anything you may consider a mistake. You just change directions and move on.

My only recommendation would be not to waste your 20's screwing around and to build some marketable skills.

Post: #45

(07-20-2014 06:24 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

(09-04-2011 01:29 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-04-2011 01:22 AM)P Dog Wrote:  Anyone here have any experience or knowledge about consulting?

if you can go to the same place every day, do the same thing, and be ordered around by the same people and have it feel sort of acceptable you're different than me.

How do you get around with a job you don't like?
How do you appear "happy" and "receptive" when head honchos from corporate show up?

I tried to fake it when they came over, and counting the hours became a norm.

I was in IT, and programmers are a pretty schizoid ( don't really like chummy, intimate social interaction) lot.

You don't have to have that "sales guy" perky demeanor, the best programmers are often quite strange appearing.

In the type of management consulting most posters here are discussing, I think the whole social presentation subcommunication of being from an upper class background is much more important.

A lot of good programmers can't even speak good english if they are from India or China.

As far as internal emotional control goes, I just logically assessed that I couldn't be making more money anywhere else at something I hated, so there was no use making my self more miserable than I already was.

From my point of view, pay differential discounted, I'd way rather spend my day doing health care work than helping the rich skim even more.

Post: #46

(07-25-2014 01:17 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  If so, I found the opposite. He was passionate about what he was doing and where he was heading.

He was very passionate about what he was doing, he lived and breathed finance. That said he was also very unhappy, there's no denying that. I hope in the time since he's left RVF he's been sorting all of that out, and hope he one day decides to come back.

Post: #47

Personally, I would like to work in IB, or at least go on internships and try it. However, I dont think people should be moralising on the extent to which young guys should seek delayed grarification. There is a balance between living in the moment, (not just the traditional definition of being immersed in your current experience, but also making time to go to the gym, sleep enough, see friends etc- more like living for the moment) and delayed gratification, and people's decision on what they want is personal- there is no right answer, so arguing that youre stupid if you dont want to work 'x hours a week' whilst youre young doesnt make sense.

Post: #48

I ostensibly work in consulting, the key word being ostensibly. Truth is, I don't do anything. It's a major disappointment. I went to China right after college determined to either start a business or inveigle my way into high finance, but after receiving a job offer from my current employer I returned to the states in order to gain what I thought would be valuable corporate experience and be able to return to China with marketable skills.

It has been a total joke. I do the whole traveling M-Thursday bit which feels like man, this gig is totally legit. Problem is, once I arrive at the client site, I do absolutely nothing. I've been on the same fuking engagement for a whole year now. It's a massive IT project that has been dragging on for years and will not finish for another several years, if ever.

My role in all this? Data entry. I shit you not, all I do is data entry, and altogether only about a grand total of 1 hour worth of data entry in an average week. The rest of the time, I do absolutely jack shit, just sit in my cubicle and try to salvage some sort of self respect by studying Chinese and learning programming. I've been complaining to my practice leadership about this situation for nearly the entire year I've been here, and they keep stringing me along by saying "yea, we'll roll you off, just wait" or "we're discussing expanding your role on your current engagement." From their perspective, of course, I'm billable, so they don't give a shit, much better for them to keep me billable than go through the hassle of finding me another project. The client is a total retard, literally paying hundreds of dollars an hour to have me NOT do anything.

Needless to say, I'm not going to keep at this for much longer. The salary is decent and I'm unlikely to make anywhere near as much money if I quit, but shit, this is the deadest of dead ends. I was not very eager to leave China even when I thought this job would be worthwhile, but now I really rue the day. I've wasted over a year of my life and acquired zero relevant experience or skills. I have a lot more money in my bank account now, but shit, not enough to justify a whole fucking year of treading water career-wise. I guess my story is kinda funny to people who complain of being overworked in consulting, haha.