Post: #26

The sooner you all abandon your imaginary supernatural beings, and the blind adherence to ancient and ridiculous rituals, violence, hate, tribalism and irrationality behind, the sooner we can start evolving into a modern, humanist species and look to the stars and our future.

Atheism is the way forward.

(ducks for cover)

Post: #27

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  The sooner you all abandon your imaginary supernatural beings, and the blind adherence to ancient and ridiculous rituals, violence, hate, tribalism and irrationality behind, the sooner we can start evolving into a modern, humanist species and look to the stars and our future.

Atheism is the way forward.

(ducks for cover)

Somehow I see atheism more leading into looking into each other's asses for procreation free sex and for opposite sex free dating rather then looking into stars.

Looking into stars - this phrase betrays you - deep in your heart you also want to find something higher then your ass.

True atheism is all about the super rational idea that you can abandon the ridiculous dating rituals and games of courting opposite sex, leave behind the irrational desire for procreation and stupid idea of building a better and more evolved world for your children - a world your mortal ass will never see. True atheism is about the rational idea that if you are a horny male and there is another horny male then you two should meet and stick your pleasure organs into each other's asses for safe and risk free mutual pleasure in the most humane way possible and keep pounding until no backwards idea of domination and tribalism has left in your modern mind.

Looking for stars, dreaming, hoping to evolve - that is not atheism my friend. That is irrational belief and desire to meet with something higher there among the stars, in the realm of abstraction and reason. That is faith. That is seeking transcendence, seeking divine.

Are you sure you want to be an atheist? Rethink it.

Post: #28

Mage nailed it. Christian values get you to the moon. Secular values get you rapefugees and feminism.

Post: #29

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Atheism is the way forward.

Towards what?

Atheists are always more concerned with being "above it all", than having clear structured alternatives.

Basically they all miss the point of religion. Religion was never about deities. It was about old people who are going to die sooner than you, passing down social rules using a deity as a tool, because due to their age plus their existing children and grand children they have more stake in doing so than focusing on boosting their own personal positions.

Atheists spend 99% of their time saying religion is stupid and posturing as clever edgy super smarty boys, and 1% of their time actually being smart and supplanting religious backed social rules with their own well thought-out ones. Social nihilists basically.

As soon as the Thailand fuck-twenty-girls-a-month-raw-but-contraceptively brigade give me their well thought-out meanings of life and associated moral rules, and a clear model of how a man should live his life beyond the weekend, I'll refrain from shitting on the religious.

Post: #30

(06-21-2017 02:27 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:35 AM)hv123 Wrote:  Newsflash - Allah doesn't exist.

Oh Allah very much does exist, it just so happens that his real name is Satan.

Why do many Arab Christians refer to God as “Allah”?

Quote:"Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures. Some English translations of the Qu’ran (Koran) use the name “God,” others use “Allah.” This sometimes comes as a surprise to Christians who were raised in Western cultures. Among former Muslims, many converts to Christianity commonly refer to God as “Allah.” (This is despite the fact that they recognize clear differences in the character of God as described by the Bible compared to Islamic writings. For example, although both Christians, Muslims and Jews firmly believe there is only one God, Christians have the additional doctrine of the Trinity.)

Post: #31

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  The sooner you all abandon your imaginary supernatural beings, and the blind adherence to ancient and ridiculous rituals, violence, hate, tribalism and irrationality behind, the sooner we can start evolving into a modern, humanist species and look to the stars and our future.

Atheism is the way forward.

(ducks for cover)

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #32

(06-21-2017 06:52 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Atheism is the way forward.

Towards what?

Atheists are always more concerned with being "above it all", than having clear structured alternatives.

Basically they all miss the point of religion. Religion was never about deities. It was about old people who are going to die sooner than you, passing down social rules using a deity as a tool, because due to their age plus their existing children and grand children they have more stake in doing so than focusing on boosting their own personal positions.

Atheists spend 99% of their time saying religion is stupid and posturing as clever edgy super smarty boys, and 1% of their time actually being smart and supplanting religious backed social rules with their own well thought-out ones. Social nihilists basically.

As soon as the Thailand fuck-twenty-girls-a-month-raw-but-contraceptively brigade give me their well thought-out meanings of life and associated moral rules, and a clear model of how a man should live his life beyond the weekend, I'll refrain from shitting on the religious.

Post: #33

From Wikipedia : "In the April 2016 issue of Dabiq Magazine, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant declared him a murtadd (or apostate).[34]"

While Hamza Yusuf seems like a real unicorn among religious leaders ; A truly moderate muslim spreading peace and tolerance, he is not by definition of the Levantine caliphate a Muslim at all and is in fact an apostate.

The only true Muslims these days are the Salafist and Wahabi such as the Saudis and ISIS. That is the true face of Islam.

Post: #34

(06-21-2017 03:43 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Sufi Islam isn't the cure to ISIS, Islam isn't a great religion to be followed, and it sure as hell isn't looked in a positive light here.

It's cute you're being passive aggressive though.

Rumi was a saint on the level of St. Francis and they attempted to kill him. They supposedly killed his master Shamus-I-Tabriz. Even recent Muslim god seekers like Khalil Gibran had massive trouble

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/20-tor...ne-n741711


APR 2 2017, 7:32 AM ET

Quote:20 Tortured and Murdered at Pakistan Muslim Sufi Shrine

Sufis don't stand a chance. Also the basic Sufi lore has been forced to accept all the backwards sharia commands out there.

There is only one way how Sufism could become a replacement or dominant part of Islam and you can guess whether this is realistic:

1) Conquer every other sect out there or enact brutal totalitarian secular leaders
2) Then force all Islamic schools to adapt Rumi as the main leader of the religion - burn the Quran, burn the Hadiths or simply ignore them - preach only about Rumi

All of this would have to be enforced by mass-murder or threat of mass-murder.

Only then is Sufism a viable alternative - any other instances just get you a position on the way to hell of Islam. And the reason for this is not Rumi, but it is Mohammed. How the fuck do you get Mohammed, the Quran and the Hadiths and the countless violent verses out of Islam?

Take Kaotic's advice. Leave Islam. Study Sufism on your own. As far as Rumi was concerned - I do not even consider him even a Muslim. St. Francis for a time tried to take the New Testament and Jesus deeds literally. Rumi never did that with Mohammed or he would have been busy raping, pillaging and subjugating unbelievers. There would be no time left or him drinking wine, contemplating and singing about the love and beauty of women. Yes - back then the rules were more lax. They drank alcohol and they loved to talk about the beautiful women out there which were meant as a way to learn about love.

If Rumi or Shamus were alive today then they certainly would have many fatwas out on them.

Also it seems that OP - you are the usual apologist or propaganda worker unaware of the real history:









The reason why Saladin or the Turkish Sultans left Christian and Jews alive was so that they could tax them. They lived off them well for centuries and even banned conversions at times because it impacted the tax base too much.

But never mind that they could always kill them with little impunity or rape their women and get punished x times less than Muslims. It is fun to live as second class dhimmis.

Islam can only be reformed by massive pushing back in a secular society by the barrel of a gun. And frankly it would sooner or later collapse, because only psychopaths would love the torture, rape and conquest truly taught by it.

Post: #35

delete

Post: #36

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Atheism is the way forward.

Bill Nye, Hillary Clinton, Hollywood fags, Lenin, Karl Marx, and all other Bolshevik thought leaders approve of your message. And look where it's gotten us.

Post: #37

(06-22-2017 03:33 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 05:40 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Atheism is the way forward.

Bill Nye, Lenin, Karl Marx, and any other Bolshevik thought leaders approve of your message. And look where it's gotten us.

True - atheism is problematic in that regard:





Black Pigeon had a short video on it. He is not religious and he is more an agnostic, but he recognized the following about religion and some kind of spirituality:

+ only 10-15% of the people can maintain a secular, atheistic and still highly ethical behavior just by being atheist
+ even shintoism in Japan is an example of a certain basic ethical sets and ceremonies, that hold mental patterns together
+ atheism does not offer anything to do that - the reason why social justice, feminism, liberalism and various communist or libertarian utopias rise up like mushrooms among atheists is because 85%-95% need some kind of other thing as mental fixture - so they pick one of those dangerous elite created isms to fill their minds

That is why the globalists hate religion except the ones they use for conquest as rabid attack dogs - Islam.

Atheism is only a valid option if it comes together with a complete ethical and cultural system like shintoism and Japanese heritage. Otherwise the vacuum is quickly filled by crap.

Also frankly atheism is religion as well - being 100% certain that there is no God and that everyone believing in any kind of supreme power is just dumb - that is also a religious belief.

At best the only logical thing you can be if you want to spin that tale is an agnostic. You can also more logically say that you don't believe in the God as told in the Bible, Quran or other book. But that does not disqualify anything else.

Me personally - I follow a path that is as valid to an Alien intelligent slime race in a distant galaxy as it is to my dog and all humans in history.

Edit - as a side note. I was born Catholic and once even delved deeply into the mystic and spiritual aspect of it. However I left the religion when I was 19, because there I wanted a path that is more true and more spiritual to me. And even I can recognize that Christianity is infinitely better than Islam. Even if you don't think that Jesus was a divine representation, then he was at least a saint, a spiritual master or at the very least a harmless loving hippie. Mohammed was always no matter what a brutal warlord, rapist, pedophile and psychopath.

Pick one and guess which can be easier manipulated and twisted to evil. The same is also true about other religions - Rama was reputed to be a an Aryan coming from the German woods and a saint, Buddha was of course a saint who thought that Hinduism was not spiritual enough for him.

In fact any world religion is better than Islam. Islam is on the level of Cult of Baal, Aztec sun worship, Satanism, Luciferianism. Try reforming Luciferianism by enlightened worship of Lucifer.

Post: #38

Agnoticism is the way forward.

Post: #39

So, someone with 3 posts and 0 reputation is already trying to "make us understand islam better"? Sounds like a big

Islam was created by a blood-thirsty pedophile (and that is a fact), there is no need to know more. I'm definitely not saying religions are bad, it can be a noble pursuit, but all of Islam should disappear for the good of humanity.
Do I think all muslims are that bad? No, I think the "islam is a religion of peace" propaganda has affected some muslims are well (what I call "westernized muslims"), but they remain a minority and if and when Islam take over, they will follow the people of their religion instead of our side.

Post: #40

This is why reform of Islam is only temporary at best.

As to Sufism - that is no reform. Most would never convert to Sufism unless you do conversion by the sword.

But if you do that, then it would be better to forcibly convert them to Buddhism, Shintoism, Christianity or a thousand other religions out there - all being superior to Islam.

Post: #41

I think Katie Hopkins should grow her hair long again. Ok, she had it shaved off before brain surgery but now it's time for the long haired Katie Hopkins again.

Post: #42

(06-23-2017 05:18 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

This is why reform of Islam is only temporary at best.

As to Sufism - that is no reform. Most would never convert to Sufism unless you do conversion by the sword.

But if you do that, then it would be better to forcibly convert them to Buddhism, Shintoism, Christianity or a thousand other religions out there - all being superior to Islam.

Had a great laugh watching that - because that's exactly how it is in our culture.

Nasser from what I know was trying to push Egypt into the modern era - the Muslim Brotherhood tried to kill him also.

We need Middle East strong men more than ever - Assad is one of them.

They are the ones who put the crazy ass jihadis in check - as you said Zel (this can only be temporary).

Problem is we propped some of these strongmen, but when they stray or want what's best for their own people, the west always destabilizes the country or helps cook up a coup.

Post: #43

Well - Kaotic - I did not know that you are one of the globalists, who is orchestrating all this madness to attain One World Government. Will you invite me to one of your Wide Eyes Shut parties or something similar?

But seriously - I know what you mean. By we you mean the Western powers who are the battering ram for the globalists now. Most people if presented equally with all the facts and given a voting choice - I think that the overwhelming majority would vote to support Assad and instead choose to outright ban the Muslim Brotherhood or organisations like CAIR. Of course they are given shitty facts and a one-sided manipulative media.

It is a sad story, but that is how the cookie crumbles.

Frankly if the globalists wanted secular moderate Muslim states, then I think they would have the means to make it happen. Instead they foster the strict Islam which is radical, depose secular leaders, enact their Orwellian police state in the West due to Islamic terror and attain their goals via the tool of the bulldog Islam. I think that if they are done with whatever they want to achieve, then they will one day simply wipe Islamic terrorism as if by magic away - regardless whether via extremely smart all-pervasive secularization, reform or other means.

Ah well - not something we can do much about - let us enjoy our pocket hot-dogs and give some women chlamydia.

Post: #44

(06-23-2017 02:40 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Frankly if the globalists wanted secular moderate Muslim states, then I think they would have the means to make it happen. Instead they foster the strict Islam which is radical, depose secular leaders, enact their Orwellian police state in the West due to Islamic terror and attain their goals via the tool of the bulldog Islam. I think that if they are done with whatever they want to achieve, then they will one day simply wipe Islamic terrorism as if by magic away - regardless whether via extremely smart all-pervasive secularization, reform or other means.

This. So much this.

They've just been a tool for the globalists. They've been constantly creating change and chaos and never letting the Middle East settle down and progress - keeping them in the stone age with radical islamic terror is another tool to them.

Quote:Ah well - not something we can do much about - let us enjoy our pocket hot-dogs and give some women chlamydia.

Zelco just used a Rafi reference - life complete.

Post: #45

(06-21-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:11 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Why did you stop being a Sufi?

Because I no longer believed in the Qur'an or God of Abraham.

Post: #46

Sufism wont solve anything - the extreme Salafists/Wahabbis will just kill them and scare those who would consider converting. From what I've seen the Ahmadis are a better option, but most Muslims see them as Infidels (see Pakistan classifying them as non-muslims).

Islam is a product of the Arab tribal culture it comes from. It would take a thousand years of outbreeding to remove this culture (culture and genes are closely linked). Sufism will never appeal to them, so while it may have some appeal in Malaysia or Indonesia, this does nothing to solve the Islamist/extremism issue.

Post: #47

(06-23-2017 08:15 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:11 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Why did you stop being a Sufi?

Because I no longer believed in the Qur'an or God of Abraham.

I am sorry to ask more as you seem reluctant to answer, but I just cannot take an answer for full when a person says he stopped believing in something, what did you start believing in instead? Are you an atheist now or agnostic or something else? Have you retained some practices or beliefs from Islam or Sufism that you consider good despite most of all that being wrong or have you left it all together? Of those things you have left to practice is it more Islamic or more Sufi?

The main question I want to ask you as former Sufi - do you think if Sufism would lose all Islamic influence, everything form Quran and Muhammad, would you say it still retains enough substance to be an independent religion/philosophy or would it dissolve? Would you consider such a religion/philosophy smart, spiritual and humane or not?

Post: #48

(06-24-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 08:15 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:11 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Why did you stop being a Sufi?

Because I no longer believed in the Qur'an or God of Abraham.

I am sorry to ask more as you seem reluctant to answer, but I just cannot take an answer for full when a person says he stopped believing in something, what did you start believing in instead? Are you an atheist now or agnostic or something else? Have you retained some practices or beliefs from Islam or Sufism that you consider good despite most of all that being wrong or have you left it all together? Of those things you have left to practice is it more Islamic or more Sufi?

The main question I want to ask you as former Sufi - do you think if Sufism would lose all Islamic influence, everything form Quran and Muhammad, would you say it still retains enough substance to be an independent religion/philosophy or would it dissolve? Would you consider such a religion/philosophy smart, spiritual and humane or not?

You can't take an answer for full? Not my problem. My answer isn't restricted by your mental limitations. I guess if you want to say atheism "replaced" it you could say that. Atheism is a LACK of belief in God not its own belief system.

Also you don't seem to know the precise definitions of atheism and agnosticism. Atheism refers to belief. A - theism. Without belief. Agnosticism refers to knowledge. A - gnosticism. Without knowledge. They aren't mutually exclusive. An agnostic atheist would be someone who doesn't believe in God but can't say for certain whether God exists or not.

Saying I replaced Islam with Atheism is like saying I replaced my clothes by getting naked.

If Sufism lost all Islamic influence it wouldn't be Sufism. It would just be some type of New Age spirituality or Hermeticism. Sufism is the MYSTERY SCHOOL of Islam. You don't seem to be well read enough to discuss this or you wouldn't be asking these questions. I believe you lack the knowledge and perspective to discuss Sufism since you probably don't know much about the history of religion, mystery schools, and mysticism. Do you even know the history behind the mystery schools and hermeticism?

Not to be arrogant or rude but I hate debating things like religion and philosophy with people because I dedicated years reading books, studying scripture, researching, and debating online and most people just honestly don't know what the fuck they're talking about in even a historical context or to understand the basic concepts and precepts of a religion or its different sects. You want to have an in depth discussion but you don't know the precise definitions of the words you're using and you seem to lack the historical context of the mystery schools of Kaballah, Gnosticism, and Sufism and their origins.

Judging by your posts in this topic, me speaking to you any more on this subject would be a waste of time. You lack the fundamental knowledge to discuss these topics in depth in my opinion.

Good day.

Post: #49

<

Post: #50

(06-24-2017 04:42 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(06-24-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-23-2017 08:15 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:14 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 04:11 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Why did you stop being a Sufi?

Because I no longer believed in the Qur'an or God of Abraham.

I am sorry to ask more as you seem reluctant to answer, but I just cannot take an answer for full when a person says he stopped believing in something, what did you start believing in instead? Are you an atheist now or agnostic or something else? Have you retained some practices or beliefs from Islam or Sufism that you consider good despite most of all that being wrong or have you left it all together? Of those things you have left to practice is it more Islamic or more Sufi?

The main question I want to ask you as former Sufi - do you think if Sufism would lose all Islamic influence, everything form Quran and Muhammad, would you say it still retains enough substance to be an independent religion/philosophy or would it dissolve? Would you consider such a religion/philosophy smart, spiritual and humane or not?

You can't take an answer for full? Not my problem. My answer isn't restricted by your mental limitations. I guess if you want to say atheism "replaced" it you could say that. Atheism is a LACK of belief in God not its own belief system.

Also you don't seem to know the precise definitions of atheism and agnosticism. Atheism refers to belief. A - theism. Without belief. Agnosticism refers to knowledge. A - gnosticism. Without knowledge. They aren't mutually exclusive. An agnostic atheist would be someone who doesn't believe in God but can't say for certain whether God exists or not.

Saying I replaced Islam with Atheism is like saying I replaced my clothes by getting naked.

If Sufism lost all Islamic influence it wouldn't be Sufism. It would just be some type of New Age spirituality or Hermeticism. Sufism is the MYSTERY SCHOOL of Islam. You don't seem to be well read enough to discuss this or you wouldn't be asking these questions. I believe you lack the knowledge and perspective to discuss Sufism since you probably don't know much about the history of religion, mystery schools, and mysticism. Do you even know the history behind the mystery schools and hermeticism?

Not to be arrogant or rude but I hate debating things like religion and philosophy with people because I dedicated years reading books, studying scripture, researching, and debating online and most people just honestly don't know what the fuck they're talking about in even a historical context or to understand the basic concepts and precepts of a religion or its different sects. You want to have an in depth discussion but you don't know the precise definitions of the words you're using and you seem to lack the historical context of the mystery schools of Kaballah, Gnosticism, and Sufism and their origins.

Judging by your posts in this topic, me speaking to you any more on this subject would be a waste of time. You lack the fundamental knowledge to discuss these topics in depth in my opinion.

Good day.

Thank you for you answers, oh wise and impatient godless one. Obviously no one in this forum is as well read and definition knowledgeable as your unique self that shines in immaculate self sufficiency that shuns the dependence on any gods. Forgive my ignorance in asking you questions, I should have known that I have to read your mind, learn from it the exact list of books you have read and know the strict definitions these books provide to the point that addressing you would be pointless due to us having reached similar minds from reading all the same books, to earn the right to address with you oh, important one. Who am I, but a fool who has never heard of Kaballah, Gnosticism, Hermeticism before and has a magician tarot card completely accidentally in my avatar. May your harsh attitude, your sense of superiority and your naked beliefs guide you well in this life for you won't have another, oh simultaneously disbelieving and doubting one.