Post: #1

First a video:





Pardon the stupid title of the video. I know some community members on these forums hate Islam/Muslims. I just wanted to make it clear that the Islamic polity is not as unified as it might appear, especially ideologically. So while one group might act with the intellectual capacity of apes, this is not universal. This video imo demonstrates that division in a modern context. The scholar speaking is literally the leading scholar of the conference he is speaking at, and was attacked and demonized by his viewers? For what? For being honest.

Wall of text:

As a Muslim, you can understand that I do not savor the idea of a future where Muslims are being deported en-masse from America as part of a religious exodus. This is my attempt to explain to you why I believe that is not necessary.

The Sunni Muslim community is basically divided into 3 portions:

1) Salafi's/Wahhabi's

A newer movement that was created by the founders of Saudi Arabia and is basically the root of all all the terrorism. They are usually an intellectually deficient bunch.

2) Normative's

These muslim's don't really have much knowledge of the religion they believe in beyond some basic facts. Here you'll find muslim feminists and other kind of poetic contradictions of human beings.

3) Sufi's

This is the group I personally belong to, and the scholar above belongs to. Countries like malaysia, indonesia, singapore were built by Sufi's. This group is spiritually-focused and throughout history sufi's have actually had a pretty healthy relationship with Jewish Kabbalists, Christian spirituals etc. Sufism was basically the state religion of the non-shia medieval Islamic empires/caliphates i.e the Ottomans, Abbasids, Seljuq's. Saladin, famous for his superior treatment of the Christian's of Jerusalem and honored in Christian literature falls into this category.

At a time when the behavior of group #1 and many other muslims' is causing people to worry about the consequences of living alongside Muslim's. I want people to understand that the real solution of the problem of terrorism and intrusive Muslims is not some sort of eradication. I believe that the solution is two steps:

1) To block off all Saudi/Salafi funding and investment into Western religious institutions. They tend to have a lot of oil money and because of that are able to spread their self-legitimizing ideology which thrives on demonizing everyone from non-muslims to other muslims who do not accept their authority. They do this by in part offering communities money to build mosques etc. but ofc not without some conditions.

2) To support Sufism and traditional Islamic scholarship, the approach of Vladmir Putin. This interpretation of Islam poses literally no threat of violence. Sufi's as a political group tend to respect other peoples choices and way's of life and do not try to intrude or impose on anyone else. * I will provide a substantiating example for this after the next paragraph

Trust me you won't find any Sufi's bombing anyone, killing anyone, it's literally pure insanity to us. Sufi's did fight in the crusades, and the Syrian and Algerian wars against the French colonialists for example, but they do not kill non-hostile civilians. The Salafi movement on the other hand, in it's most original form was literally an excuse for the Saudi's to slaughter other muslims and invade their present day territory. Non-muslims of course, they hate even more.


An example supporting point #2 is the story of Emir Abdelkader Al-Jazairi

In July 1860, conflict between the Druze and Maronites of Mount Lebanon spread to Damascus, and local Druze attacked the Christian quarter, killing over 3,000 people. Abdelkader had previously warned the French consul as well as the Council of Damascus that violence was imminent; when it finally broke out, he sheltered large numbers of Christians, including the heads of several foreign consulates as well as religious groups such as the Sisters of Mercy, in the safety of his house.[9] His eldest sons were sent into the streets to offer any Christians under threat shelter under his protection, and Abdelkader himself was said by many survivors to have played an instrumental part in saving them.

[W]e were in consternation, all of us quite convinced that our last hour had arrived [...]. In that expectation of death, in those indescribable moments of anguish, heaven, however, sent us a savior! Abd el-Kader appeared, surrounded by his Algerians, around forty of them. He was on horseback and without arms: his handsome figure calm and imposing made a strange contrast with the noise and disorder that reigned everywhere.

— Le Siècle newspaper, 2 August 1869[12]


Reports coming out of Syria as the rioting subsided stressed the prominent role of Abdelkader, and considerable international recognition followed. The French government increased his pension to 150,000 francs and bestowed on him the Grand Cross of the Légion d'honneur;[10] he also received the Grand Cross of the Redeemer from Greece, the Order of the Medjidie, First Class from Turkey, and the Order of Pius IX from the Vatican.[9] Abraham Lincoln sent him a pair of inlaid pistols (now on display in the Algiers museum) and Great Britain a gold-inlaid shotgun. In France, the episode represented the culmination of a remarkable turnaround, from being considered as an enemy of France during the first half of the 19th century, to becoming a "friend of France" after having intervened in favor of persecuted Christians.[13][14][15][16][17][18][19]

In 1865 he visited Paris on the invitation of Napoléon III and was greeted with both official and popular respect. In 1871, during an insurrection in Algeria, he disowned one of his sons who was arousing the tribes around Constantine.[1]

He wrote Rappel à l′intelligent, avis à l′indifférent (Call to the Intelligent, Warning to the Indifferent).[1] Abdelkader died in Damascus on 26 May 1883 and was buried near the great Sufi Ibn Arabi in Damascus.

If you read all the way to this point, thank you for the time of day. Maybe this has changed your perspective, maybe not. I just hope we can fulfill the American vision and live in a land of peaceful co-existence, where we all increase the prosperity of one another and do not threaten each other, attack each other.

Take a gander at this blurb:

The legendary bluenose Cotton Mather had his faults, but a lack of curiosity about the world was not one of them. Mather paid scrupulous attention to the Ottoman Empire in his voracious reading, and cited the Koran often in passing. True, much of it was in his pinched voice — as far back as the 17th century, New England sailors were being kidnapped by North African pirates, a source of never ending vexation, and Mather denounced the pirates as “Mahometan Turks, and Moors and Devils.” But he admired Arab and Ottoman learning, and when Turks in Constantinople and Smyrna succeeded in inoculating patients against smallpox, he led a public campaign to do the same in Boston (a campaign for which he was much vilified by those who called inoculation the “work of the Devil,” merely because of its Islamic origin). It was one of his finer moments.

This theory was eloquently expressed around the time the Constitution was written. One of its models was the 1780 Massachusetts Constitution, which John Adams had helped to create, and which, in the words of one of its drafters, Theophilus Parsons, was designed to ensure “the most ample of liberty of conscience” for “Deists, Mahometans, Jews and Christians.”

As the Founders deliberated over what types of people would ultimately populate the strange new country they were creating, they cited Muslims as an extreme of foreign-ness whom it would be important to protect in the future. Perhaps, they daydreamed, a Muslim or a Catholic might even be president someday? Like everything, they debated it. Some disapproved, but Richard Henry Lee insisted that “true freedom embraces the Mahometan and Gentoo [Hindu] as well as the Christian religion.” George Washington went out of his way to praise Muslims on several occasions, and suggested that he would welcome them at Mount Vernon if they were willing to work. Benjamin Franklin argued that Muslims should be able to preach to Christians if we insisted on the right to preach to them. Near the end of his life, he impersonated a Muslim essayist, to mock American hypocrisy over slavery.

Thomas Jefferson, especially, had a familiarity with Islam that borders on the astonishing. Like Adams, he owned a Koran, a 1764 English edition that he bought while studying law as a young man in Williamsburg, Va. Only two years ago, that Koran became the center of a controversy, when the first Muslim ever elected to Congress, Keith Ellison, a Democrat from Minnesota, asked if he could place his hand on it while taking his oath of office — a request that elicited tremendous screeches from the talk radio extremists. Jefferson even tried to learn Arabic, and wrote his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom to protect “the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.”

Jefferson and Adams led many of our early negotiations with the Islamic powers as the United States lurched into existence. A favorable treaty was signed with Morocco, simply because the Moroccans considered the Americans ahl-al-kitab, or “people of the book,” similar to Muslims, who likewise eschewed the idolatry of Europe’s ornate state religions.


Thanks for reading. Maybe twenty years from now the visions of Franklin and Jefferson will be achieved. Maybe not. Regardless, I intend to convince as many people as I can to resolve the challenges of today with reason and mutual respect, not with hatred and divisiveness.

Post: #2

Is it OK for other people from profane Mohammed? What should the consequence for doing so be?

Post: #3

(06-21-2017 06:02 AM)TheReturn Wrote:  First a video:





Pardon the stupid title of the video. I know some community members on these forums hate Islam/Muslims. I just wanted to make it clear that the Islamic polity is not as unified as it might appear, especially ideologically. So while one group might act with the intellectual capacity of apes, this is not universal. This video imo demonstrates that division in a modern context. The scholar speaking is literally the leading scholar of the conference he is speaking at, and was attacked and demonized by his viewers? For what? For being honest.

Wall of text:

As a Muslim, you can understand that I do not savor the idea of a future where Muslims are being deported en-masse from America as part of a religious exodus. This is my attempt to explain to you why I believe that is not necessary.

The Sunni Muslim community is basically divided into 3 portions:

1) Salafi's/Wahhabi's

A newer movement that was created by the founders of Saudi Arabia and is basically the root of all all the terrorism. They are usually an intellectually deficient bunch.

2) Normative's

These muslim's don't really have much knowledge of the religion they believe in beyond some basic facts. Here you'll find muslim feminists and other kind of poetic contradictions of human beings.

3) Sufi's

This is the group I personally belong to, and the scholar above belongs to. Countries like malaysia, indonesia, singapore were built by Sufi's. This group is spiritually-focused and throughout history sufi's have actually had a pretty healthy relationship with Jewish Kabbalists, Christian spirituals etc. Sufism was basically the state religion of the non-shia medieval Islamic empires/caliphates i.e the Ottomans, Abbasids, Seljuq's. Saladin, famous for his superior treatment of the Christian's of Jerusalem and honored in Christian literature falls into this category.

Your peaceful sect has had fourteen hundred years to reform Islam. Haven't. Can't. You managed to come up with maybe two examples of peaceful prominent Muslims in pretty much the whole of Islamic history. There are five times as many brutal, warlike Islamic figures held up as prominent, from Babyars to Tamerlane, through Islamic history.

Too many of your fellow-travellers hold the Quran to be the inerrant, literal word of God, and Mohammed as the ideal man, the model for all devout Muslims to follow. They also persecute others of their own faith: I notice that the Baha'i, a Sufi-ish sect of Islam, is heavily persecuted in every Muslim majority country in the Middle East.

This is essentially an expanded version of the "Not All Muslims Are Like That" argument, and it is answered the same way: as with Nazi Germany, as with Communist Russia, as with all totalitarian ideologies that rest on a semi-to-complete basis of blind faith, the moral/peaceful majority is irrelevant -- because it won't stand up to be counted with the West or hand in terrorists when they're located. Until you do that, until you pick a side and start picking up weapons against your fellow Muslims, you will be at best irrelevant or at worst a collaborator.

Islam is going to have to go through a Reformation like Christianity did before it stops being any sort of threat to the West.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #4

I'm just not very interested in it. The beliefs are demonstrably ridiculous, such as the killing of animals via exsanguination.
I think like a lot of people i'm just sick of hearing about it. If it were a white person's religion it would last about 20 minutes in the west before it were banned. The problem is liberals have a different set of standards they hold different people to.

Newsflash - Allah doesn't exist.

Post: #5

Very interesting post, thanks for this info.

Post: #6

Isn't Sufi Islam banned in most Muslim countries? Or maybe just restricted, I don't recall. Doesn't Sufi Islam get it's origins from the Ottoman Empire? An empire that was religion tolerant of all religions? Good luck with that. Plenty Muslims seem to look down on the Ottomans but use them to puff up Islam's power whenever convenient.

Post: #7

Sufism exists to fill vacuum of Spirituality in Islamic world. But like water it has taken form of it's container and is unable to defeat it.

Islam despite being a religion has nothing spiritual about it - it's all politics, restrictions and prescriptions for daily life.
Islam has no deep insights about human nature, nature of God, nature of human interaction with divine. Islam has no meditation, no contemplation, no enlightenment, just observance. Islam doesn't preach any moral virtue aside from those borrowed from Jews, Christians and pagans that lived around Muhammad and from whom he borrowed influences. Islam has no personal prayer just recitation. Islam has no personal relationship with God, just a master-slave relationship. Islam has no intimacy with creator just social norms. Islam has no mysticism, no esoteric side, just plain literal interpretation of Quran. Like a famous Russian author Victor Pelevin has said: "In Islam there is no astral rainbow body, but there is the fragmentation-detonation body". Islam has no great questions of life, just commands and subjugation of all life.

But still people who live in Islamist countries are living humans with souls who are victims to this desert cult of boredom and death. They long for deep spirituality, for mystery, for intimacy with the divine. Sufism exists to fulfill this vacuum. Sufism is an esoteric teaching that has nothing to do with Islam and has origins older then Islam, but pretends to be Islam so its followers can consider themselves Muslims and not apostates and escape the death penalty for apostasy. It is a deeper, more meaningful religion that gives water to the thirsty in the spiritual desert of Islam hood.

Sufism has existed under Islamic dictatorship for centuries and has adapted to it. As much as I am sympathetic to them - they cannot defeat Islam because they have evolved to live under Islam. They hold many Islamic superstitions including some violent teachings just to convince both themselves and other Muslims, that they are true Muslims too, not apostates so that they could practice their occult faith. Are they better then common Muslims who interpret Quran directly? -Yes! Are they the solution to Islamic problem - No! Many of them could be allies in defeating more violent types of Islam, but eventually they would have to reform themselves and lose all that is Islamic and retain only that which is esoteric to survive in a post-Islamic world and can they do it? In a non Islamic world their hindrance to considering a Muhammad a prophet would be a dead relic from the past could they drop it?

Post: #8

(06-21-2017 06:02 AM)TheReturn Wrote:  Wall of text:

As a Muslim, you can understand that I do not savor the idea of a future where Muslims are being deported en-masse from America as part of a religious exodus. This is my attempt to explain to you why I believe that is not necessary.

Fear not being deported! America will need multiple terrorist events, orders of magnitude greater than the events of 9/11 to finally wake up. Until then, we'll be importing as many "refugees" (all males of fighting age, oddly) as our politically correct, suicidal government can stuff into Section 8 housing.

I have absolutely ZERO doubt that the American public will flaccidly accept dozens of Islamic led attacks on American soil while the media focuses on "angry white men."

Quote:Thanks for reading. Maybe twenty years from now the visions of Franklin and Jefferson will be achieved. Maybe not. Regardless, I intend to convince as many people as I can to resolve the challenges of today with reason and mutual respect, not with hatred and divisiveness.

Jefferson defeated the Barbary Pirates (Muslims) in battle after years of paying tribute, trying - as we do today - to appease them. And once they no longer felt the sword at their throats, they went back to the same behavior as before, until they we brutally defeated in war again.

Islam (all of it) is not compatible with any religion or culture on the planet save for their own. The solution to Islam is not "Islam Lite."

Post: #9

I hope OP doesn't bomb this thread.

Post: #10

What are the numbers? I came here because I figured you had more than qualitative information.

For instance:
Catholic 1.225 billion
Protestant 800 million

Protestants and Catholics happily coexist (thanks to our forefathers).

What are the numbers for the Islam sects? Do they coexist? Are they mostly country dependent (socio-political dependent)?

Numbers in the West?

You're presenting a counterintuitive point. You need some math.

Post: #11

How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Post: #12

Mass deportation is the only humane solution. In Christianity a Christian that murders is subverting the text and is a bad Christian. In Islam a Muslim who doesn't kill is subverting the text and is a bad Muslim. Notice the difference.

Post: #13

Islam, like modern feminism, like modern liberalism remains similar in that it defines itself by what it hates over what it loves.

All three things coincidentally hate the same thing.

Post: #14

(06-21-2017 06:35 AM)hv123 Wrote:  Newsflash - Allah doesn't exist.

Oh Allah very much does exist, it just so happens that his real name is Satan.

Post: #15

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that. People will always need a faith, one or another.

(06-21-2017 02:27 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 06:35 AM)hv123 Wrote:  Newsflash - Allah doesn't exist.

Oh Allah very much does exist, it just so happens that his real name is Satan.

Satan is surely a different entity. Allah wants to convert by force, while Satan takes pleasure from people coming to him on their own. Don't give too much credit to Allah, he is a minor imp.

Post: #16

(06-21-2017 03:38 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that.

Thanks for the ideas, but I already got those 2 marked off my list.

The meaning of life isn't blindly following a religion, morality doesn't necessarily come from a book, along with right and wrong.

Just from traveling and banging women you can learn ALOT about morality and the right and wrongs in life.

Hence why this place is a travel forum, game forum, manosphere forum, and alt right forum.

Or have you not been paying attention lately ?

Sufi Islam isn't the cure to ISIS, Islam isn't a great religion to be followed, and it sure as hell isn't looked in a positive light here.

It's cute you're being passive aggressive though.

Post: #17

(06-21-2017 03:38 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that. People will always need a faith, one or another.

If you're not religious then you must be a "shallow hedonist", and one who does not ever contemplate deeper meaning? What is this assertion based on? Not reality, that's for sure.

Post: #18

(06-21-2017 03:48 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 03:38 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that. People will always need a faith, one or another.

If you're not religious then you must be a "shallow hedonist", and one who does not ever contemplate deeper meaning? What is this assertion based on? Not reality, that's for sure.

Paper Tiger Philosophers

Post: #19

(06-21-2017 03:48 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 03:38 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that. People will always need a faith, one or another.

If you're not religious then you must be a "shallow hedonist", and one who does not ever contemplate deeper meaning? What is this assertion based on? Not reality, that's for sure.

That's not what I said, me being irreligious myself.

I specifically used the word faith, not religion.

There are people who will always be thinking about deep quastions and they will have a set of beliefs it might be a religion, it might be a philosophy it might be theistic or atheistic.

The point is you cannot tell people to stop thinking about these things and to not care.

Post: #20

(06-21-2017 03:43 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 03:38 PM)Mage Wrote:  

(06-21-2017 11:04 AM)kaotic Wrote:  How about another option:

LEAVE the religion(s) all together and worry about other things.

I left Islam as a teen and never looked back.

Like what? Adding the 101st notch? That new TV show?

Some people's brain are wired otherwise and they have to think about meaning of life, purpose of human life, nature of morality, what is right and what is wrong. There is no escaping that not all people are shallow hedonists, you must understand that.

Thanks for the ideas, but I already got those 2 marked off my list.

The meaning of life isn't blindly following a religion, morality doesn't necessarily come from a book, along with right and wrong.

Just from traveling and banging women you can learn ALOT about morality and the right and wrongs in life.

Hence why this place is a travel forum, game forum, manosphere forum, and alt right forum.

Or have you not been paying attention lately ?

Sufi Islam isn't the cure to ISIS, Islam isn't a great religion to be followed, and it sure as hell isn't looked in a positive light here.

It's cute you're being passive aggressive though.

You misunderstood my post by about 180 degrees.

Read my first post in this thread if you want to know my opinion about Islam and Sufism.

We agree on everything, only thing I wanted to correct is that you cannot make people "not to think" about issues religions try to answer.

Do not be agressive to call other people passive-agressive.

Post: #21

If Sufism is so great that we should evangelize the current Islamic world to it, maybe it's the right thing for all of us.

How can I become a Sufi too?

Post: #22

I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Post: #23

(06-21-2017 04:11 PM)Darkwing Buck Wrote:  I'm a former Muslim and a former Sufi. Half my family is Muslim though I live in a western country.

I am willing to answer any questions.

Also Sufism is a pretty hardcore spiritual practice full of introspection and spiritual/metaphysical thought as well as meditation and deep prayer. Of course most people aren't going to be into it just like most Christians aren't actually devout or follow the rules. Sufism in many of its forms is considered the esoteric/mystic practice of Islam.

As a former Muslim and former Sufi I kind of find this post silly because it's like saying why aren't all Christians into Gnosticism?

Plus some of the more esoteric ideas of Sufi Islam clash with mainstream/fundamentalist interpretations. In addition Islam has huge problems with dogmatism where many Muslims want to condemn and sometimes even kill you for practicing a different form of Islam.

For example I belonged to a fringe group of Muslims considered Quranists who didn't accept the Sunnah or hadiths of Islam. The Sunnah and hadiths contain a lot of dumb rules, backwards thinking, harsh punishments, and stupid Arabic cultural practices that aren't necessarily prescribed in the Qur'an. To believe in the Qur'an and not the Sunnah makes Islam a more tolerant, modern, and progressive religion. But to proclaim such a belief in many countries would get you beheaded.

Why did you stop being a Sufi?

Post: #24

I agree with OP that the current Islamic crisis is all of our own making, deliberately by the traitors in our midsts. We have no one to blame but ourselves and our corrupt leaders to blame.

We have for 100 years deliberately supported Sunni fanatics. We have allowed the great traitor Churchill to partition the middle east into politically unmanageable factions. Europe did nothing when the Greeks attempted to take back Konstantinople.

The unholy and traiterous alliance with Saudi Arabia for the benefit of Israel is of course the biggest sin, as is the treason against Christian and Druze Lebanese and the cousins of Europe in Iran. Israel and the CIA destroyed the Christian, Druze and Allevite Lebanese, who we now know from genetics are ancient Europeans.

With every excuse we make for Trump and other leaders to deal with the Sauds, we are underwriting our own doom.

Think if we had thrown the full might of the West behind the Sufis? Instead we always choose the worst of the worst Sunnis as allies.

That's what we need to admit when we hate on muslims. We chose the worst of them as our allies.

Post: #25

(06-21-2017 04:37 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  I agree with OP that the current Islamic crisis is all of our own making, deliberately by the traitors in our midsts. We have no one to blame but ourselves and our corrupt leaders to blame.

We have for 100 years deliberately supported Sunni fanatics. We have allowed the great traitor Churchill to partition the middle east into politically unmanageable factions. Europe did nothing when the Greeks attempted to take back Konstantinople.

The unholy and traiterous alliance with Saudi Arabia for the benefit of Israel is of course the biggest sin, as is the treason against Christian and Druze Lebanese and the cousins of Europe in Iran. Israel and the CIA destroyed the Christian, Druze and Allevite Lebanese, who we now know from genetics are ancient Europeans.

With every excuse we make for Trump and other leaders to deal with the Sauds, we are underwriting our own doom.

Think if we had thrown the full might of the West behind the Sufis? Instead we always choose the worst of the worst Sunnis as allies.

That's what we need to admit when we hate on muslims. We chose the worst of them as our allies.

And that is precisely what happens if you do not take interest in religions and beliefs of people and think that anything can be explained by money and secular interests. You get disoriented and cannot tell a friend from foe.