(06-21-2017 02:26 PM)Armogan Wrote:  You can see the 3 large candles, with the very low candlestick. In the span of 1 hour 120,000 ETH was sold, not exactly "testing support". The low candlestick indicates that this person/group either did a market order or a limit order much lower than the spot price. Essentially, they didn't care about slippage at all they just want to sell. People can make their own conclusions, however.

The reason this affects all exchanges is because there are massive trading bots. These bots go directly into the API of exchanges and are programmed to monitor price fluctuations at other exchanges. Some traders think this gives them an edge - react on one exchange based on activity on others.

For those wondering the percentage markers on the graph, they are Fibonacci Retracements

Quote:In technical analysis, Fibonacci retracement is created by taking two extreme points (usually a major peak and trough) on a stock chart and dividing the vertical distance by the key Fibonacci ratios of 23.6%, 38.2%, 50%, 61.8% and 100%. Once these levels are identified, horizontal lines are drawn and used to identify possible support and resistance levels. Before we can understand why these ratios were chosen, we need to have a better understanding of the Fibonacci number series.

Warning, long 'technical' post incoming-

Fibonacci's / Golden Ratio


* Number series: Cumulative numbers added up.
* A series of numbers that many assert to relate to natural universal proportions
* Important because so many traders globally use them as Support and Resistance areas i.e. Self Fulfilling Prophecy
* These are potential areas of interest (zones) and not set in stone
* 50% is the popular level (broken down in percentages) followed by 38.2% and 61.8%
* Measure from a Low point to a High point in Up-trending markets and the opposite in Down-trending markets
* Traders either range trade at these levels or trade the breakouts
* One can view Fibonacci's like envisaging Support and Resistance i.e. congregations of traders


Fibonacci Retracements can:
- Offer opportunities similar to Support and Resistance, Channels and Triangles due to the potential Counter Retail Opportunities



Assuming we caught a breakout and traded in it's favour.


* If market continues in this direction, it is a trend (directional channel)




Ascending and Descending Triangles -> show us price pressure and can assist in forming a directional bias (a hint)

* We react to either Directional Movement however we may favour one direction over the other and allow it a higher Pip Value i.e. All trades are not equal

* Actions speak louder than words -> we don't act upon hints

* ORDER FLOW is king - the volume of orders in a given direction



Ascending Triangles (less so in Forex, more fluid, no mon - fri but applicable to crypto due to 24/7 trading)

Combination of Diagonal Support and Horizontal Resistance




* Bulls are gaining strength and not allowing the market to hit lower lows (diagonal line)
* Bears are trying to defend an established resistance (horizontal line)

* Bulls are more aggressive than Bears and are more likely to prevail (odds favour an upside breakout as that is what is pushing)

* We wait for confirmation through Price Action



Descending Triangles

Combination of Horizontal Support and Diagonal Resistance





* Bears are gaining strength and momentum signified by their selling at lower levels, whilst Bulls are trying to hold a defensive Support Line (red)

* Bears are more aggressive, testing the support and achieving lower highs
* Odds would appear to favour a breakout on the downside
* We wait for confirmation through Price Action


Triangles - Summary


* These price patterns show congregations of order
* Flow and Commitment
* They show price areas where people have traded
* They also indicate where certain participants may be in losing positions
* This aids our trading when combined with entry orders and a robust and complete strategy
* Wait for Confirmation!



Average True Range



* Measures an average movement in price, over a pre-defined number of time periods
* ATR is a technical analysis volatility indicator originally developed by J. Welles Wilder Jr. for commodities
* The indicator does not provide an indication of price trend but rather, the degree of price volatility
* The ATR is an N-day smoothed moving average (SMMA) of the true range values
* Wilder recommended a 14 day smoothing
* This can be useful for gauging probable movements over time
* Can tell us what is conceivable and not conceivable within the current range of movement for a certain instrument over a certain time period
* This can also help show changes in commitment as volatility increases and a move intensifies its directional shift
* Can help us create a proper exit strategy and a stop loss



Oscillators (bottom of graph)



* A technical analysis indicator that varies over time within a band (above and below a center line or between set levels).
* Used to discover short-term overbought or oversold conditions

* Relative Strength Index
* MACD
* Williams % Range
* Stochastic
* Commodity Channel Index

* Banded between two extremities attempting to gauge whether a market is overbought or oversold
* Top end is Overbought
* Bottom end is Oversold
* This can also mean trending heavily and cannot be relied upon as a standalone indicator
* Works best in sideways market upon confirmation of the same -> we do not use sideways markets


Oscillator Divergence is: Particularly useful in bringing the traders' attention to possible inconsistencies within a particular movement, potentially signalling a reversal or otherwise an unusual movement


Relative Strength Index (RSI) -> more important



* a technical indicator used in the analysis of financial markets
* It is intended to chart the current and historical strength or weakness of a stock or market based on the closing prices of a recent trading period (Usually 14 days)
* Also developed by Wilder in 1978

* Not to be confused with relative strength


Oscillators - RSI


* It is intended to chart the current and historical strength or weakness of a stock or market based on the closing prices of a recent trading period
* Over 70 is classified as Overbought and followers would favour Sells once confirmed in Ranging Markets
* Below 30 is considered as Oversold and followers should prefer Buys once the trade is confirmed
* There must be some external reasoning combined with this indicator



If the above interests anyone, I can do another post on Moving Averages.

P.S. I am very bullish about Antshares, now rebranding to Neo and going to open to Western markets. I can do a post on that too if people are keen.

(06-22-2017 03:34 AM)Gas Wrote:  I've discovered another use for arbitrage. Even if you only make 5 or 10 bucks per coin, you can accumulate a serious mountain of frequent flyer points if you do the buying on Coinbase.

Please don't tell me you're paying an extra 2+% to get some miles

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/po...nsfer-fees

Quote:Payment Method for Purchase
Effective Rate of Conversion Fee (after waiver)
U.S. Bank Account 1.49%, with a $0.15 minimum
Coinbase USD Wallet 1.49%
Credit/Debit Card 3.99%

Payout Method for Sale Effective Rate of Conversion Fee (after waiver)
U.S. Bank Account 1.49%, with a $0.15 minimum
Coinbase USD Wallet 1.49%
PayPal 3.99%

USD Deposit Method Fee
ACH Transfer Free
Wire Transfer $10 ($25 outgoing)

(06-22-2017 08:31 AM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 03:34 AM)Gas Wrote:  I've discovered another use for arbitrage. Even if you only make 5 or 10 bucks per coin, you can accumulate a serious mountain of frequent flyer points if you do the buying on Coinbase.

Please don't tell me you're paying an extra 2+% to get some miles

https://support.coinbase.com/customer/po...nsfer-fees

Quote:Payment Method for Purchase
Effective Rate of Conversion Fee (after waiver)
U.S. Bank Account 1.49%, with a $0.15 minimum
Coinbase USD Wallet 1.49%
Credit/Debit Card 3.99%

Payout Method for Sale Effective Rate of Conversion Fee (after waiver)
U.S. Bank Account 1.49%, with a $0.15 minimum
Coinbase USD Wallet 1.49%
PayPal 3.99%

USD Deposit Method Fee
ACH Transfer Free
Wire Transfer $10 ($25 outgoing)

Damn coinbase is expensive as hell.

Here's what I think happened on GDAX GHAX.

Some nerd who got in on the genesis crowdsale was sitting on 100kish ETH. This individual saw low volume on GHAX, and figured that the order book was both highly levered and filled with stop-loss orders. No on does 100k market orders, it destroys the buy-side of the order book. This was a calculated risk to dump a whole lot of ETH under market prices, hoping that it would cause a flash crash. Before he dumps the ETH he put a bunch of limit-buy orders at $.1. Hoping the order book gets cleared price tanks for 1-2 seconds then these orders get executed.

In other words, dump the ETH, crash the price 20-30%, this crash would trigger margin calls, the margin calls cascade and trigger more margin calls, stop-loss orders are executed tanking the price all the way down to $.1. Limit-buy orders execute at $.1 and the price jumps right back up.

Every single person on margin trading the ETH/USD pair got liquidated. Think about that. Everyone margin trading ETH/USD got liquidated. Their coins gone. The price went down to $.1, not $.01. This is actually a ATL on GDAX, lower than the ICO.

I saw the transaction logs from the GHAX API and someone purchased 3,800 ETH for $.1. This is a market value of over $1m.

This is probably the 3 or 4th time a flash crash has occurred in as many months.

(06-21-2017 10:18 PM)Travel Museums Wrote:  How do you profit off that kind of mistake without leaving money on the table in open buy orders at ridiculously low prices??

I'm guessing get a margin account? Then use the leverage to only have a few bucks on the buy orders?

Here is another idea. If you are a long on bitcoin/eth keep that money on GDAX. it's one of the few exchanges that allows BTC/ETH and ETH/BTC trades. You can set the ridiculous open buys in those trades. So if either has a flash crash you borrow from the other to take advantage. Borrow from Peter to pay paul. Borrow from paul to pay Peter. So long as there isn't a simultaneous crash you're fine. Sneaky sneaky.

Most if, not all, the big exchanges trade ETH/BTC. Gemini, Kraken, Poloniex come to mind.

Two problems you could face if you have a limit-buy order on margin.

1. You are paying interest on this even if its not executed. From the exchange's perspective they have already lent you coins, so you are accruing interest.

2. If you put a limit-buy order at $5 for 1000 coins, and you have 1000 coins in your portfolio. If the price crashes to $5, you now have $10,000 worth of coins in your account and are borrowing $5000. In this flash crash, the price would continue to drop to $.1. So when the price hits $2.5 you would actually be margin called.

Imagine that. ETH trading at $320. Flash crashes, your margin limit-order is executed at $5, it continues to tank. You get liquidated at $2.5. Lose all your coins. It shoots back up to $300.

To my knowledge the 3.8k order was a bunch of different orders being fulfilled but we won't know for sure.

We can see however one order of 7.2k ETHs @ $0.10... Absolutely phenomenal.

This really isn't all that complicated as you guys are making it out to be. Anyone who has traded long enough will have seen this.

It's what happens when liquidity cannot absorb large orders. Whether those large orders are designed to game the market price is a different story.

And Armogan, no you don't pay interest on margin on unexecuted orders.

^Digimata

I think Armogan is saying for all intents and purposes, you are "in essence" paying interest because the exchange is holding your coins while your orders are sitting unfulfilled.

GMAC is correct, you will pay interest even if the buy orders are not executed. Let me be more specific.

If you decide to margin trade the ETH/BTC pair and go long ETH.

You need to borrow BTC. If you put a very low limit-buy order the exchange lends you BTC, yet you do not sell it for ETH as the limit buy order isn't executed. They still have lent you BTC and you are accruing interest.

I know 100% this is the case for Poloniex, as I've experienced it. Can't say for certain on GDAX, but I'm fairly certain its the same.

By the way, if anyone has 100k ETH laying around. PM me I have an idea.

Thanks for the color gents, and my 2 cents on Polo's lending on unexecuted orders: Absolute shit.

Yes this is crypto land, I will say however that in major asset classes there isn't a case of interest charged before the position is opened.

Another reason to trade fiat/crypto pairs perhaps.

Remember some weeks back a few of us chiming in about the dangers of stop-loss orders, particularly in a flash crash situation.

After seeing this insanity unfold, I decided to allocate a couple hundred bucks in my GDAX accounts for outlandish lowball limit buy orders on BTC, ETH and LTC. Unlikely that it'll happen the same way again, but I figure this is a longstanding prop bet with no downside except a few bucks in interest per year. No need to go on margin.

I think the bigger issue moving forward is the increasing likelihood of the SEC and other regulators moving into the crypto front. You know guys that got margin called way below market are crying to anybody they can trying to get their money back.

WTF is going on with poloniex, transferred some ETH from poloniex to bittrex but, my ETH withdrawal status was updated to "completed" 30 hours ago, still can not see the transaction on etherscan.io. I've been contacting the support for the past 29 hours, not even 1 reply.

(06-22-2017 01:35 PM)deneuk Wrote:  WTF is going on with poloniex, transferred some ETH from poloniex to bittrex but, my ETH withdrawal status was updated to "completed" 30 hours ago, still can not see the transaction on etherscan.io. I've been contacting the support for the past 29 hours, not even 1 reply.

I had some ETH as well as GOLEM transferred and it took a several hours after "completed". There's a big backlog but it will definitely post.

Anyone come up big on the crash? Coinbase doesn't have a lowball limit buy. Wish it did.

(06-22-2017 02:45 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Anyone come up big on the crash? Coinbase doesn't have a lowball limit buy. Wish it did.

Honestly I never even thought to place such a limit buy on Gemini because who would ever even think it possible for it to crash so low? I'm new to trading so definitely didn't expect this could happen.

No need in playing the hindsight game when it comes to investing. Live and learn.

I added some more low ball buy offers. If there is a huge drop with Bitcoin I would gain $99,000, Ethereum $60,000, and $9,000 with Litecoin. Given the uncertainty and people not knowing what they are doing plus some manipulation by whales there is a chance it could happen again.

Ive been thinking about doing the same thing. Just pissed i never pulled the trigger.
Problem is, in order to do this, you need to store coins on an exchange, which i am not a fan of.

Good info Armagon, if it wasn't for your write up. I probably never watched what happened this time.

(06-22-2017 12:31 PM)booshala Wrote:  Remember some weeks back a few of us chiming in about the dangers of stop-loss orders, particularly in a flash crash situation.

After seeing this insanity unfold, I decided to allocate a couple hundred bucks in my GDAX accounts for outlandish lowball limit buy orders on BTC, ETH and LTC. Unlikely that it'll happen the same way again, but I figure this is a longstanding prop bet with no downside except a few bucks in interest per year. No need to go on margin.

I think the bigger issue moving forward is the increasing likelihood of the SEC and other regulators moving into the crypto front. You know guys that got margin called way below market are crying to anybody they can trying to get their money back.

These kinds of things happen quite frequently in Cryptolandia, yet a difficulty is determining which possible pairs and which exchanges in which you want to tie up your money with such low ball buy orders - because you are correct, it does tie up your money, and the more pairs/locations you attempt to play the more money you have tied up.

I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

(06-22-2017 04:15 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

Your question is the same as to ask which numbers will be drawn at the lottery tomorrow

(06-22-2017 05:36 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:15 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

Your question is the same as to ask which numbers will be drawn at the lottery tomorrow

Ok. Which exchange do you use the most?

(06-22-2017 05:37 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:36 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:15 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

Your question is the same as to ask which numbers will be drawn at the lottery tomorrow

Ok. Which exchange do you use the most?

I use kraken and poloniex and when I was in Thailand I was using the Thai exchange.

By the way, the dollar price for many coins on coinmarketcap is incorrect. I know some use that price daily.

(06-22-2017 05:37 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:36 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:15 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

Your question is the same as to ask which numbers will be drawn at the lottery tomorrow

Ok. Which exchange do you use the most?

I understand that you are frustrated with Coinbase, but all exchanges have their particular issues.

Since you have already set up an account on coinbase, I would not recommend shutting it down completely because it can be good to have a variety of potential entry, liquidation and/or trading avenues, even if you do not use it for an extended period of time. And, also sometimes you will find that there are quick arbitrage opportunities that might exist on one exchange that does not exist on other exchanges, as long as you are already set up.

Besides, GDAX I have trading set up on Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTC-e, Gemini and Uphold. Each of them have advantages and disadvantages.

Is there ANYTHING Coinbase offers that GDax doesn't, besides higher fees and a dumber interface? Both are FDIC insured, and I'm fairly certain that Coinbase uses the prices from the GDAX exchange.

I'd like to point out to you guys who are thinking lowball bids is your ticket to the 1% a few issues with your thinking:

1)You need to accurately call the correct pair being dumped
2)You need to accurately call the correct exchange having issues
3)You need the exchange to NOT bust your trades. If you sold, now you are short from $0.01 or whatever to the current market price. If you are lucky, the exchange will just invalidate your trades.

If you can do all 3 above, or even 1 of the 3 you should just buy lottery tickets with all your money.

Not to shit on you guys, because I do the same lowball bids with a bot but you guys are missing a lot.

(06-22-2017 06:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:37 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 05:36 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(06-22-2017 04:15 PM)Bill Brasky Wrote:  I'm probably going to end up leaving coinbase. I'm sick of it shutting down whenever there is a lot of movement.

What is the best way or exchange to take advantage of these flash crashes?

Your question is the same as to ask which numbers will be drawn at the lottery tomorrow

Ok. Which exchange do you use the most?

I understand that you are frustrated with Coinbase, but all exchanges have their particular issues.

Since you have already set up an account on coinbase, I would not recommend shutting it down completely because it can be good to have a variety of potential entry, liquidation and/or trading avenues, even if you do not use it for an extended period of time. And, also sometimes you will find that there are quick arbitrage opportunities that might exist on one exchange that does not exist on other exchanges, as long as you are already set up.

Besides, GDAX I have trading set up on Bitfinex, Bitstamp, BTC-e, Gemini and Uphold. Each of them have advantages and disadvantages.

I won't shut it down but I want to start using other options. I am going through verification for Tether. It's a bit complex though as I live in Mexico and I need to provide proof of residency with a utility bill. I can't do this because it's included in my rent. I'm going to see if landlord will let me create an account in my name.

I also looked at localbitcoins here in Mexico City. There seems to be about a 15% mark-up so definitely not interested. Even with Coinbase fees it's still much less.

Bitfinex is not accepting USD deposits. I remember when I first created my coinbase account there wasn't nearly this much red tape.

I guess for all its problems its really not that bad.