Post: #1

I'd like to preface the question at the end by telling my personal experience. Some of it may seem braggadocious, it's not meant to be, I just want to share as much as possible to give my perspective and reason for posting.

While my particular situation may be unique, I'm curious what the consensus is on the overall idea and topic of this thread.

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I'm mid 40's. About 20+ years ago, I became friends with a female co-worker, I'll call her Shiva. At the time she was at 7, possibly an 8 on an evening out. The way Shiva was dressed at one work function I would have rated her a 9.

Eventually we ended up banging regularly.. and on the DL, as Shiva was dating another co-worker whom she eventually married and divorced. At one point during one of our meetings, I expressed my disappointment (for lack of a better word) regarding her impending nuptials, which (I assumed) meant that our meetups would come to an end. While I can't remember the exact verbiage I used, I remember leaving it as an open-ended question. Shiva's verbal response and facial expression was something along the lines of, "So ?", as in 'Just because I'm getting married doesn't mean this will stop'. And it didn't.. it even continued while I was dating another woman before I met my wife. Once I got married, I cut Shiva off. And Shiva divorced a few years after I got married.

Fast forward 11 years.. I'm going through my divorce. By that time I was beta/blue pill/whatever you want to call it. Sex with the ex (when it happened) was garden variety, 95% of the time it was two or three positions, with an occasional 69/oral thrown in. Sex on average was 3-4 times a year. If I got a blow job twice a year, that was a lot. And at that point I'm overweight, not working, and rubbing one out to porn at a minimum of three times a week. I was swiping on the dating sites, and in retrospect I now see that I was coming across as too strong.. too desperate.. too thirsty..

So I decided to look Shiva up (we were friends on social media). Part of my wanting to meet up with her was to get an idea of the thought process of my (now) ex-wife on signs of cheating (as Shiva had done to her husband with me), part of it was wanting to get the bang from her again. She could get to the bar, but would need a ride home. So we met up for a couple of drinks and a light dinner.

The years had not been kind to Shiva. What was once a 7 or 8 was now at 4, possibly a 5 at best on a real good day if she wore a lot of makeup and fasted for the week prior to being rated. I'm disappointed that she dropped so far on the scale.

We talked about all sorts of stuff.. my kids, how I was doing, how she was doing (divorced and re-engaged), my suspicions regarding my wife, etc, etc,.. Shiva basically gave me a 'how to' on how to cheat on your spouse, and what I could expect from the divorce proceedings.

At that point in my marriage, I hadn't had sex in over nine months. So while I'm looking at this former 7-8 that's now at least half that, she was helpful in giving me some sort of insight in the upcoming divorce.. I'm also thinking in the back of my mind that I can get the bang if I push the right buttons. We talked a bit about the old days, but subtle hints or glances didn't seem to be working.

On the drive home, I said something along the lines that one of us always seems to be in some sort of relationship when the other isn't, and left it open ended. She agreed, and I dropped her off and went home.

A couple of days later, she called to see how I was doing, and she brought up what I had said in the car.. and asked if I was interested in hanging out like we did back in the old days.

Game on.

I also knew that Shiva could keep things quiet. She was engaged and didn't want to mess that up, but also understood my position as far as any potential backlash in regards to the divorce.

Shiva came over a couple days later. She came in the door, we went to the couch, talked for a bit, and started making out. Took her to the bedroom, and proceeded to do some of the craziest stuff I'd ever done with a woman. I had her in all sorts of positions, straddled her while she sucked me off, blasted inside her multiple times.. Shiva later said to me that she not only missed this, but that I was better than before (20+ years ago).

I can't put into words how much of an ego boost that was for a man in his early 40's, especially following a sexless marriage and belittlement by the (now) ex.

I continued to meet up with Shiva over the course of my divorce proceedings and after it was finalized. Between bangs we'd talk about the 'good old days', how we used to meet up at the 'no tell motel' with the hourly rate, a couple of car bangs, etc.. at one point she asked what I thought would have happened if, say, I had divorced after she did, and where we might be if we were both single. I responded with something along the lines that, because we both knew how the other was (she cheated on her husband with me, I cheated on my girlfriend with her), that I didn't think we could ever trust each other completely. She kind of nodded in agreement.

During that time I was also swiping on Tinder, Bumble, POF, and Craigslist. Met a few off of each (only one off CL), and got the first night bang on all of them. I became more brazen in my online approaches, but a bit more refined. I felt like I was sending out more of a "let's hang out" or "I'll try to make time for you" kind of vibe. I had the mentality that I didn't 'need' to bang any of the matches online, because I had Shiva to satisfy my urges on average of twice a week.

I've kind of drifted away from Shiva since the beginning of this year. While she can sometimes be cool to hang with and is a good lay, I was getting tired of listening to her complain about nothing ever going her way because she was a minority (it was constantly her go-to excuse). And she got all her political information from the TV. She would say things like, "Trump wants to get rid of all immigrants", and when I would clarify that he wants to get rid of illegal immigrants, her response was that CNN/MSNBC/HuffPo et al said it was ALL immigrants. It got to be too much, and for the most part I've soft-nexted her.

Today, 4/20, marks Day 85 of No Fap for me. Since the beginning of the year, I've banged two women from the previous year, AND I've gotten 3.5 new notches, two of which are in my regular rotation. The .5 was a blow job, her kid in the other room woke up shortly after I nutted on her tits, so I had to bail. But getting that full notch is a scheduling conflict.

I will never know for certain if she was the difference or the catalyst if you will, but I honestly believe that having Shiva at my sexual disposal allowed me to be more bold in my approaches, both online and in person. The flip side to that is that her looks were considerably less than they were over 20 years ago. Add in that Shiva was engaged/married, so any sort of 'going out' was off the table. So I wasn't required to take her out anywhere, which didn't impact my SMV.

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So here's the question..

While it's beneficial to have an abundance (and by default an abundance mentality), is it wise to have a 5 or less in your rotation (at least until she can be phased out) ?

Post: #2

Yes if she passes the boner test then dont throw it out till you have a consistent upgrade

Post: #3

I don't think the fact that she was a 5 really mattered. The fact that she was DTF(and good at it) and discreet was more important to you at the time. Sounds like she could of been anywhere from a 3-7 and you would have bit. Like Steve McQ said, as long as she passed the boner test for you.

Post: #4

Shivakamini Somakandarkram is an easy 8! How DARE you!

Post: #5

When a girl is good in bed, it makes up for a lot. Especially if she is just a backup, and you have a hotter girl for when you want to be seen in public with some arm candy.

Post: #6

Didn't even read it's way too long.

Here's my answer. Nobody will know... It's just a booty call.

We're all guilty of using an uggo or a whale in a slump. Just don't make it a habit

Post: #7

I did some dumpster diving in early post divorce days as I was working my game out, nothing to be worried about.

Better than a wank as well.

Post: #8

Her being a 5 is irrelevant. She is just simply the bottom rung. We all have one.

Post: #9

Fuck yes, its wise. As long as you want to fuck that bitch, fuck her.

Post: #10

Do you like fucking her? If yes than nothing else matters.

Post: #11

Quick disclaimer: I have fucked my fair share of dragons. Horny, drunk, desperate, lonely, stupid. Whatever the excuse, I have definitely taken down some ugly / fat girls in the past. So I'm not by any means trying to come off as the big man on campus.

That being said, I'm going to shave against the grain here and say that there is no point in settling for a 5. There's definitely a 9 out there that will fuck you. One hundred percent. You are settling for that 5.
Also, in the long run, it's much better to have your standards and respect them. Whatever short-term gain fucking a slump-busting 5 will give you pales in comparison to the frame you will have knowing you are an uncompromising man that seeks and attains quality in his life.
Every now and then, sure we can fuck a 5 or a 6 if it's handed to you on a silver platter and there's nothing better going on in the moment. Even if you good have tenderloin steak everyday, it's still good to have a Big Mac every now and then.
I wouldn't keep a 5 around as a "backup" chick though. The girls that you actually keep around in your life (i.e. anything more than a one-night-stand) should be of exceptional calibre. Anything else and you're not playing the game right brother.

Drop this girl. Right now. It will be a liberating test of your character. Only reason you wouldn't drop her would boil down to one thing: SCARCITY MINDSET

Post: #12

It's fine. She's good with you, good in bed, doesn't complain, and does what you like. Keep her as long as you want, she seems like a cool girl.

Post: #13

It's ok as long as you are putting effort to improve your rotation quality so the 5 can be easily dropped for better.

Post: #14

I am definitely in the pro-Slump Buster category. And Shiva was definitely a slump buster.

Sounds like you're doing fine now and have no more need of Shiva. She served her purpose and helped you get back on track.

We all have our slumps. So any ego boost, no matter the source, will always be beneficial. The key is to use that boost to take you to higher ground....which is what you did.

Post: #15

(04-21-2017 01:56 AM)The_e_man Wrote:  That being said, I'm going to shave against the grain here and say that there is no point in settling for a 5. There's definitely a 9 out there that will fuck you. One hundred percent. You are settling for that 5.
Also, in the long run, it's much better to have your standards and respect them. Whatever short-term gain fucking a slump-busting 5 will give you pales in comparison to the frame you will have knowing you are an uncompromising man that seeks and attains quality in his life.
Every now and then, sure we can fuck a 5 or a 6 if it's handed to you on a silver platter and there's nothing better going on in the moment. Even if you good have tenderloin steak everyday, it's still good to have a Big Mac every now and then.
I wouldn't keep a 5 around as a "backup" chick though. The girls that you actually keep around in your life (i.e. anything more than a one-night-stand) should be of exceptional calibre. Anything else and you're not playing the game right brother.

Drop this girl. Right now. It will be a liberating test of your character. Only reason you wouldn't drop her would boil down to one thing: SCARCITY MINDSET

Quoted for quality. High five bro!

Post: #16

It depends. Is she a 5 now just because of aging a bit and not really her fault? Or is it because she gained weight and got fat? Personally I would not reward the getting fat. I don't go there if they are overweight. A lady can still look good in her 40's if she takes care of herself and doesn't become another American obesity statistic.

Post: #17

Depends what a 5 really means here. If you would be ashamed to be seen with her, I'd cut her loose.

Otherwise keep her on the slow boil. It's good to have the balls drained every week or so.

Post: #18

Thanks for all the replies so far..

I've pretty much soft nexted her. I say pretty much only because she did help me get my head on straight while I was going through my divorce. We've known each other for over 20 years, and were friends even before the sex back then.

While she was a good time in the sack, it was the constant complaining that I was getting tired of. That, and she didn't have a vehicle, so any time I wanted to hook up I had to pick her up and bring her back to my place.

The sex was easy enough to get, once we reconnected the first time. But (because she didn't drive), I slowly became a taxi service whenever we'd meet up. And I didn't like the way that felt. I think I reached my breaking point when she asked me to pick something up for her from a stranger on Craigslist. Apparently the seller offered to deliver the item, and she told them she has a friend that can pick it up instead ("He was gonna drop it off, but I told him my friend Sam could pick it up for me").. and she did that without bothering to consult me prior to telling the seller that.

I felt like her beta orbiter, but still getting action.

As far as being seen in public, there were a couple of times we got out of town for the weekend (she'd tell her husband she was at a 'training seminar'), when we got out of town, we would get out of town, like an hour or so away.

I could have wrapped my head around the age catching up with her, but the first time I saw her after all those years, she'd really let herself go. Full disclosure, she had a gut, and her once incredibly gorgeous hair had gone to hell. I wouldn't have approached her if she were a complete stranger, unless was in an extended dry spell, she was overly eager, and I knew it was an absolute lock.

(I can say that now, looking back versus where I am today. In all honesty the answer may have been completely different a couple of years ago).

And while I don't mind helping someone out, I even floated her (and her husband, who I met a few times) a couple of loans totaling $400. My mistake there was "pay me back when you can". Her and her husband were always struggling to make the bills, so the loan was made to a friend (her) first, which at that point I would have done if we weren't banging.

That said, it's pretty fucking annoying when in one breath she would tell me she'd pay me back after taxes or paying X bill first (and she'd be the one to bring up that she still owed me), in the next breath she'd ask me if I could take her "to look at (furniture) to replace the old one I've had forever".

All said and done, I was glad I followed through on the bang.

This might sound jacked up, but the only thing I can think to compare it to would be shopping for a car. It's a lot easier to walk away from the table if you're already have a car. And the dealer knows that you don't have to put up with the hijinks and can drive away at any time. You're dealing from a position of strength, because you still have that car to drive.

The same idea with having a woman (even a 5 or below) in your pocket. You don't have to deal with the drama from a potential bang if you've already got a bang on deck. You're in a better position to hold frame, and the potential bang can tell by your behavior.

Post: #19

2 years ago I had a 5 in my rotation. She was good conversation, good in bed, but I did not want to be seen with her.
Keeping one in your rotation/harem is good enough - if there is a benefit.
From what you have written, the cons outweigh the pros.

As for the "drama". Don't worry - even when you have options they'll be drama. Just for a lesser extent.

Lesson for life - CH commandment XVI -"Never be afraid to lose her"

Post: #20

Don't get me wrong, I love attractive women. But there's something to be said for women whose SMV isn't as great as yours. Usually, and of course there are exceptions to every rule, they tend to be less drama and are more appreciative of having you as their man candy.

If, at any point, however, such a mid-range woman's hypergamy hamster starts making her think she "deserves" you and she begins taking you for granted -- dump her, and dump her fast. Bitch needs a reality check. In all likelihood, she'll realize she fucked up and come crawling back to you with a more humbled attitude, and it will be your choice as to whether or not you'll entertain allowing her back.

Nothing wrong with using a "5" but don't let a "5" (or any woman for that matter) use you.

Post: #21

Why are fat chicks or 5s like riding a moped?

They're both fun to ride until your friends see you!

Post: #22

We all have the one we regret a little. Maybe you "harpooned yerself a hwale". Maybe you "fought out of your weight class". Maybe you "hand picked her from the ugly tree". It doesn't matter IMHO. Letting her drag the nut out of you... Is far better than a late night alone at the computer that ends with a quick shuffle to the sink looking like a dehydrated Spiderman. Keep yer eyes out for new talent. But plug away in the mean time.

Post: #23

TL;DR but I'll answer based off of threat title:

Regardless of how good a 5/10 is in bed, after a handful of bangs I will get tired of looking at her and actually start feeling ashamed of myself for banging her. I can't speak for anyone else but this is my personal experience.

Post: #24

(04-26-2017 08:17 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  TL;DR but I'll answer based off of threat title:

Regardless of how good a 5/10 is in bed, after a handful of bangs I will get tired of looking at her and actually start feeling ashamed of myself for banging her. I can't speak for anyone else but this is my personal experience.

My sentiments exactly. Not gonna lie, I've been with a few (like 2 or 3 in my life) 6s before, and after the deed was done it made me feel diminished in some way. Try as I did, I couldn't suppress the thought that the only reason I had fucked her was that I had failed to pull anyone more attractive, and that's a shitty, confidence-sapping thought.

I've since resolved to rather hold on to my standards and endure a dry spell if I have to, than settle for anything less than a 7.

To each his own, though...

Post: #25

If she's a plate, and not your main squeeze, I don't see an issue with it. Provided, of course, you're not settling. Pussy's, pussy, IMO. The more you have access to, the better.