Post: #326

The guy just hired a highly regarded Chicago trial lawyer to represent him. United is going to pay through the nose.

Post: #327

I side with the guy, sure he acted like a whiney bitch but had every right to protest being booted from a seat that was bought and paid for

The airline fucked up not him, they shouldnt have forcibly removed him

On a society level these kinds of cases are a real problem, If it were me I would have just got off the plane, reading this I think if it happens now I might go down this road and sue if they booted me, ashamed as I am to admit it.

Post: #328

(04-14-2017 12:38 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  I'm pretty sure it was 1350 max. Not min.
Maybe Someone can bring up the exact page if they are familiar with it.

4x the fare is very low for short destinations.

On the other hand, if I was flying JFK to SF or LA and it was the last flight out of town on a Sunday night, 1350 voucher still won't be enough for me and prob wouldn't be enough for many people if they don't wanna miss work the next morning.

$1350 is the cap if your travel plans are delayed by more than 2 hours. The $800 offer was for 1-2 hour delays. That's substantial but it means they had a flight leaving within a few hours he could have taken...he wasn't going to be late for work the next day.

Sure, they CAN offer more, but they're allowed to call the cops and have you removed if they've offered the cap and you refuse.

Also, never take the voucher. Legally, they have to give you a check for the full amount at the gate (no waiting months on a corporate check) upon request.

But, as I've said in this thread, this guy's freakout will earn him hundreds of thousands of dollars - maybe that's the best tactic if you want a bigger payday.

Post: #329

Incredible how many people on here are defending United. How stupid do you have to be to not understand United fucked up pretty much every touch point in this ordeal?

So basically, an incompetent employee or employees mishandles booking logistics for passengers and crew. Fine, shit happens.

Yet allow passengers to board anyways.

Lie about overbooking.

Offer 400, 800...maybe max it out at 1350? No fuck it let's rachet this up to DEFCON 1 and call in law enforcement...with predictable results.

Put law enforcement in an unnecessary situation created artificially out of nothing.

Apologize for having to 're-accomodate'. Breaking a paying customers face not so much.

Blame victim for being belligerent. Yeah clearly as the video moments before beat down shows.

Some twat mentioned 'read the contract'? Fuck off. No one is reading a 45 page legal document prior to booking.

A few mentioned his guy was hamming it up? I'm sure most 69 year olds can handle a pile drive into an arm rest like a champ. But what do I know, he's a 'phaggot' right?

Sordid past? Who gives a shit. It's irrelevant.

Buy a higher class fare? Tell that to the guy who was bumped from first class flying from Hawaii.

If people can't figure out that paying out 5...10...15k today to salvage many multiplier of that amount tomorrow is the smart thing to do then you should be exterminated so the rest of us aren't tasked to deal with retards.

Post: #330

The next flight available was the following day in the afternoon. Doesn't even matter. He along with every other passenger on that flight had their own reasons for not giving up their seat for expiring coupons they can only use with the company that fucked them over to begin with.

I can list three instances just off the top of my head where even 1350 or a helluva lot more wouldn't have got me out of my seat. Grandfather's last day alive and two key business meetings that took 8 months to set up. So if United or any other airline is willing to pay the amount I could potentially make from these deals plus future earning from said deals or re-animate my grandfather so I can pay my respects one last time while still alive...then yeah maybe I'll consider it. But until then they can suck my dick. Move on and randomly select another sucker to bump. I'm not paying for their fuck up.

Post: #331

So I was reading some the post earlier on this thread and was disappointed in some poster's using the identity politics bullshit that left use. We shouldn't fall into the trap of using the color of our skin (if you're non-white) to justify unreasonable actions or behavior. And I'm also appalled of how some people were suggesting that they should have beat him up more for using the race card (I'm Chinese too btw...). Regardless of what race or background this person was or of the police officers that forcibly removed him...I think it's fair to say that this grossly mishandled by United and I'm in the camp that believes the man was not at fault here. It's actually sickening when you saw some of the journalists who did some digging on the victim's background (probably a crisis tactic used by companies in a public scandal to find some dirt and blame the victim, taking a stand of righteousness, or downplaying the issue). As a men's self-improvement we should call out the bullshit that these greedy corporations do and I'm certainly glad that this practice of overbooking for the sake of making more money has now finally caught up to them.

Post: #332

This guy my look like a wimp but he is none. He did not let it go. How often corporations fuck us over? Then they say its somewhere written in the 500 page contract where you just made a cross. Or you are even right but have to do 20 forms to fill before you get anything out of them and then they even pay super slow and need be threaten by a lawyer. Not to mention shitty service. And what do most people? They let it go. And that is what corporations calculate. Human behaviour. How many people let things go? How many people push on and demand the money but will give up after the tiring request forms to fill? They calculate very well how much shit they can give you and how much they can get away.

Now they fucked up. In case of doubt I'm always for the ordinary guy and against the corporations. They are not our friends. The same bullshit like work live balance and when they offer you a gym or other crappy social activity stuff. The boss calls you by your first name and act like he is your friend. Hell you even can work there for 20 years. Until things go down. Then you are not longer Tom or Berry. Then you are Mr. Miller and may not even get a handshake after they kick your ass out of the door. You did bring in millions of sale or high net worth projects? There is the door Mr Miller and the security is already on the way...

If they had be at least a little smart they could have handle it in a different way. But they did not, they thought like always, no matter what we do. We will get away with it! Because our customers may paying but they are stupid and don't resist in most cases! We are the bully here.

Post: #333

Quote: Some twat mentioned 'read the contract'? Fuck off. No one is reading a 45 page legal document prior to booking

Yeah cuz knowing what you sign up for is for chumps.

Post: #334

(04-14-2017 02:48 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

Quote: Some twat mentioned 'read the contract'? Fuck off. No one is reading a 45 page legal document prior to booking

Yeah cuz knowing what you sign up for is for chumps.

If you read 45 pages of legal babble, and you're not a lawyer, does that mean you know what you signed up for?

Post: #335

In such "legal" documents they even write stuff that is illegal,forbid or has no claim by the actual law.

Post: #336

Yeah cascade, he signed up not to be forcibly removed under the various rules, sections, and provisions under the refusal of transport portion laid out in the contract of carriage.

So I guess you're right. Knowing what you signed up for really is for 'chumps'. Conversely bending over for United makes you a ...champ?

The point is that the vast majority of casual air travellers have not and will not read the fine print. Ever. And for that OP to insinuate he had it coming because it's in the contract is fucking retarded for more reason that the obvious, which is United had no legal right in this particular case.

Post: #337

For anyone flying Delta going forward:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-14...ed-flights

Quote:In the aftermath of the United scandal, Delta Airlines will allow airline employees to offer up to $9,950 to encourage passengers to give up their seats on overbooked flights, the Associated Press reported on Friday. The change comes as rival United Airlines faces not only broad public backlash, but also a lawsuit stemming from a passenger’s forced removal from a sold-out flight last weekend.

Specifically, the AP said that it had obtained an internal Delta memo authorizing the airline’s gate agents to offer as much as $2,000 in compensation for overbooked flights, up from a previous high of $800, while Delta supervisors can now offer up to $9,950, up from a $1,350 maximum.

United has faced a week of mounting outrage over its treatment of a passenger who refused to give up his seat to airline personnel last weekend. A video showing the passenger, David Dao, being forced from of his seat and dragged off the plane by security officials went viral.

On Thursday, Dao’s attorney claimed his client, a 69-year-old doctor, suffered a concussion, broken nose and lost two teeth during the April 9 violence. Dao plans on suing United, with a hearing scheduled for Monday in Illinois. United is compensating all passengers on the flight for the price of their tickets.

While United CEO Oscar Munoz has twice apologized for the company's handling of the confrontation, many have claimed that the unpleasant situation could have been avoided had United simply kept ratching the offer to passengers to give up their seat on the overbooked flight until a clearing price was eventually discovered. Or simply said: an efficient market.

It appears that Delta has learned from United's mistake, although now that the pricing threshold has been set, Delta may find it more complicated to find willing takers at what used to be the prevailing, far lower incentive prices.

* * *

Meanwhile, moments ago CNBC reported that United itself has also issued an updated policy to make sure crews traveling on their airplanes receive their seat assignments at least 60 minutes prior to departure. “This ensures situations like Flight 3411 never happen again,” United said and added that the updated policy is one of its initial steps in a review of its policies.

Post: #338

(04-14-2017 06:40 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  For anyone flying Delta going forward:

Quote:Meanwhile, moments ago CNBC reported that United itself has also issued an updated policy to make sure crews traveling on their airplanes receive their seat assignments at least 60 minutes prior to departure. “This ensures situations like Flight 3411 never happen again,” United said and added that the updated policy is one of its initial steps in a review of its policies.

That's the real solution. Don't try to get people off the plane once they've boarded. If the employees are flying to man a flight in another city, make sure plans are set before the passengers board or allow the other flight to be delayed.

Post: #339

(04-14-2017 06:40 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  For anyone flying Delta going forward:
In the aftermath of the United scandal, Delta Airlines will allow airline employees to offer up to $9,950 to encourage passengers to give up their seats on overbooked flights, the Associated Press reported on Friday.

Delta rocks. If someone offers me ten grand to get off a plane, my ass is gone like Shawn. I'm outta here like Vladimir. I'll make like a tree and leave. I'll... well, you get the idea.

Post: #340

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/united-passe...on-flight/

Quote:A passenger was traveling on board Flight 1418 from Calgary to Houston when he was stung by a scorpion, CBS News correspondent Kris Van Kleave confirmed.

The scorpion fell onto Richard Bell’s head and stung him underneath his fingernail.

“We were on the plane about an hour, having dinner, and then something fell on my head, so I grabbed it. I was hanging onto it,” Bell said in a Skype interview. “It was lucky that it hit my nail more than my skin I think, so maybe my thumbnail saved me a little bit.”

Besides being dragged from your seats, you now have to deal with scorpions!

Post: #341

The person who took the vid on the plane is a legend, imo this guy needs to swing them some cash under the table when it's all said and done.

Post: #342

I've had only one bad flying experience. I was on Northwest Airlines flying from DCA to AUS via MSP. They were having a bad day as they had ice storms in Memphis, which was one of their big hubs. Getting out of DCA was a mess, and we took off late. When we got to MSP, I had about five minutes to make my connection. I didn't make it. I ended up waiting about four hours for the next flight.

It was a minor inconvenience. Someone handed me an envelope. It included a coupon which gave me $35 off my next flight. It had a one-year expiration, and I never used it. So, my compensation was nothing. Incidentally, my duffle bag also arrived a day late.

I suspect most flyers know that vouchers are bullshit. Airlines know often they are used and aren't used. This is why United couldn't get any volunteers.

Instead, give flyers a partial refund or even a full refund if you're going to bump them. Since probably 99% of airlines are paid by credit card, it would be easy to give the customer a credit on the credit card.

Post: #343

(04-14-2017 02:48 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  Yeah cuz knowing what you sign up for is for chumps.

In the infancy of the internet, I listed some Yahoo auctions. Towards the bottom, I put a bunch of tiny print, "such and such is a registered trade mark, I have no association... blah blah blah." A few paragraphs worth. Somewhere in the middle, I wrote "All prices are in Kuwaiti Dinar" which was about 5:1 at the time. Completely unreasonable given that I was in Canada, and selling to generally the US. Effectively I figured I'd play a game of "gotcha!" with the bidders, and increase my take by a factor of 5. Naturally after trying this a couple times, people told me to fuck off and it was never honoured, and rightfully so.

Similar situation here, except they have the power of lawyers and police on their side. The issue revolves entirely around corporations making hugely one-sided contracts that often not only violate the spirit, but even the letter of the law, then obfuscating the details inside 45 pages, when the jist of it should be able to fit on one page, with enough room at the bottom for one of their stupid rental car ads.

People reasonably assume it would look something like: I pay $X. You have the obligation to fly me from Y to Z at this time."

The airline's take is: You're obliged to pay $X upon booking. We have the option, but not the obligation to fly you at or around that time, or not, or offer you a refund, or not, at our discretion.

I'm an engineer with some lawyer and accounting friends and we all deal with contracts occasionally, so are in a better position than average, and still none of us really understand what these contracts mean. Short of a lawyer, intimately familiar with the nuances of contract law in whatever state United's incorporated in, pretty much no one understands what's written there. Even if you were to hire one of these people at 10x the price of your ticket to produce a one page summary for you, you'd likely just end up with the above.

So what are you options since all corporations do the same thing? Sit back and mumble "ho-hum. Oh well. Those are the terms I agreed to, so it's my fault I guess."? Challenge them in court? Or say, this whole system is horse shit, the fact you want all the upside and none of the down is horse shit, and I'm not going to adhere to your horse shit rules under the threat of physical violence and travel bans. There is simply no low cost, non hugely time-consuming safe option to deal with these pricks' bullshit. They know it, and use it to fuck you.

I probably wouldn't of had to balls to do what this guy did, but salute him for the trickle down benefits all travellers will hopefully get in the future.

Post: #344

^

Reminds me of this story from some years back:

http://www.geek.com/games/gamestation-eu...s-1194091/

Quote:Like all of us, you probably click through EULAs without reading them. It’s understandable: no one’s going to read twenty pages of purposely obtuse legalese just to install iTunes.

But if an April Fool’s Day joke plays by British retailer GameStation is anything to go by, maybe you should read the fine print more carefully: over 7,500 unsuspecting customers signed their souls away to GameStation by refusing to untick a box in their update EULA.

The exact wording of the soul clause in GameStation’s terms and conditions read:

Quote:By placing an order via this Web site on the first day of the fourth month of the year 2010 Anno Domini, you agree to grant Us a non transferable option to claim, for now and for ever more, your immortal soul. Should We wish to exercise this option, you agree to surrender your immortal soul, and any claim you may have on it, within 5 (five) working days of receiving written notification from gamesation.co.uk or one of its duly authorised minions. We reserve the right to serve such notice in 6 (six) foot high letters of fire, however we can accept no liability for any loss or damage caused by such an act. If you a) do not believe you have an immortal soul, b) have already given it to another party, or c) do not wish to grant Us such a license, please click the link below to nullify this sub-clause and proceed with your transaction.

It wasn’t just a gag though: the roughly 12% of customers who clicked the links were given a free £5 voucher.

It’s all in good fun, but it does demonstrate how dastardly EULAs can be. I actually expect to see this exact case used as evidence in a future court case about the legality of EULAs: my guess is someone’s going to successfully challenge one eventually based on the provable fact that almost no one ever reads them.

Post: #345

The EULA is like a woman complaining - at the end, we ignore it all and just click "Yes I agree" and let's move on.

Post: #346

Now Delta passengers will get into punch-ups over who gets to give up their seats for $$$

Post: #347

(04-14-2017 06:47 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 06:40 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  For anyone flying Delta going forward:

Quote:Meanwhile, moments ago CNBC reported that United itself has also issued an updated policy to make sure crews traveling on their airplanes receive their seat assignments at least 60 minutes prior to departure. “This ensures situations like Flight 3411 never happen again,” United said and added that the updated policy is one of its initial steps in a review of its policies.

That's the real solution. Don't try to get people off the plane once they've boarded. If the employees are flying to man a flight in another city, make sure plans are set before the passengers board or allow the other flight to be delayed.

Welcome to the real world - in Europe companies are overbooking just the same, but they do things much smarter, so that throwing people off planes just never happens. Also transferring crew members sometimes have to sit next to the stewardesses in special additional seats. They don't just throw off paying customers. I have seen this happen occasionally.

But what can we expect from companies who pay young pilots so little that they have to be on food-stamps to survive?

If you treat your own like shit, then they will treat customers also like shit - old corporate rule.

Post: #348

(04-16-2017 03:15 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 06:47 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 06:40 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  For anyone flying Delta going forward:

Quote:Meanwhile, moments ago CNBC reported that United itself has also issued an updated policy to make sure crews traveling on their airplanes receive their seat assignments at least 60 minutes prior to departure. “This ensures situations like Flight 3411 never happen again,” United said and added that the updated policy is one of its initial steps in a review of its policies.

That's the real solution. Don't try to get people off the plane once they've boarded. If the employees are flying to man a flight in another city, make sure plans are set before the passengers board or allow the other flight to be delayed.

Welcome to the real world - in Europe companies are overbooking just the same, but they do things much smarter, so that throwing people off planes just never happens. Also transferring crew members sometimes have to sit next to the stewardesses in special additional seats. They don't just throw off paying customers. I have seen this happen occasionally.

But what can we expect from companies who pay young pilots so little that they have to be on food-stamps to survive?

If you treat your own like shit, then they will treat customers also like shit - old corporate rule.

Strong will do what they want, and the weak will endure.

But in this case, its okay for corps to be assholes to consumers

Post: #349

I should have known someone would beat me to this.

Post: #350

delete