Post: #1

Here are the requirements:

1. 2X bodyweight deadlift.
2. Standing Overhead Press with 75% of bodyweight on the bar.
3. Chin-ups-12 minimum
4. 400 meters in 75 seconds or less.

Quote:If you could design a PT test for the military what would it consist of and why?
I think everybody in the military ought to be able to deadlift twice their bodyweight. And that does not represent a powerlifting specialization. For a 165-pound Soldier, a 330-pound deadlift is not a remarkable feat of strength. But it at least ensures that there is a minimum standard. Next, we would have an overhead press test that would be 75% bodyweight. I would not test the squat because there would be too many problems with judging it for compliance with the standard. You have to train the squat, you just don’t test it. I would also test chin-ups and 400-meter sprint. I think a Soldier should be able to do 12 chin-ups and run 400 meters in 75 seconds or less. The additional benefit of having the press, chin-up, and 400 meter run tests is that they do away with the need to do body composition testing, which takes up a lot of time and can be a problem for muscular Soldiers. If Soldiers are too fat they are not going to be able to meet those standards. But if you have a person that would be too fat under the present metrics, but who can still do 12 chin-ups and run a 75-second 400, let him stay! People like this are not hurting anything, because they are physically capable of doing the job. I think you would still need assessments that are mission-specific, but these would be the most basic testing standards, and I think they cover all your bases much better than the current assessments. They are easy to administer and fairly straightforward in terms of both training and application to combat readiness. Of course you give people extra points for crushing the basic standard, but these numbers should be the minimum.

http://rhinoden.rangerup.com/are-you-str...-rippetoe/

Post: #2

Can Pass

Post: #3

I can pass this pretty easily. I got OHP of BW +5lbs and haven't deadlifted in over a year but was repping over 2x BW. I get up to ~25 reps on first set of chin ups, wide grip pulls are a different story. Overall, pretty good holistic requirements. Curious to see how other members stack up.

Post: #4

Pass

Post: #5

A pretty low bar if you ask me. Most high school students can pass this. Rip is great at the slow lifts, but for much outside of that including GPP I would look elsewhere.

Post: #6

I'd pass. Don't think most high school kids could strict press 75% of bw. 75% bw strict press is respectably, and amongst the general populous notably, strong.

Not sure how useful a test it is.

Post: #7

I think it's a pretty solid benchmark.

They're not elite levels, but that's not the idea. The idea is that they are benchmarks that a decent proportion of ordinary people could train themselves to meet, within a reasonable timeframe.

While I, and many others here can exceed these, I know I've been training for many years with pretty good consistency and intensity to achieve it. That level of dedication isn't feasible to expect of a good proportion of the population. Few would be able to achieve these benchmarks without a substantial amount of training.

These standards are supposed to be a floor, not a ceiling. Not everyone needs to be an elite super soldier, they just needs to be able to perform at a relatively high, functional standard, which these guidelines do a pretty good job of defining.

Post: #8

If this was the requirement for the military, our forces would shrink from about 800,000 to 8,000. Those are not easy targets to reach. I am an on again/ off again lifter, I probably could meet two of the requirements. Most men can't even do three pull ups or run a mile under 10 minutes. The gym I used to go to there was only one guy I'd ever see who, in addition to myself, would deadlift more than 300 lbs.

Post: #9

I would not try either the deadlift or the press. I have nagging back injuries and there's just too much risk involved. Although I understand the primal attraction of those movements, there are safer and less harmful ways to demonstrate strength. Back in the day when the strict press was still a competition lift, guys were basically turning it into an incline standing bench and some have mentioned how wacky it felt in the spine to subject it to such abuse. I know the stock response will be "proper form blah blah" as if anyone is going to have anything near proper form when lifting a truly heavy weight.

These tests do also fail to account for height. Lifting anything is far harder at 6'10 than it is at 5'6, not to mention doing double bodyweight because a tall person will weigh a lot simply by existing.

Post: #10

Interesting. I could pass Rippetoe's test. If I could design a Combat Fitness Test, it'd probably look something like this. A CFT would need more than a 400m sprint for time. You can have a horrible cardiovascular engine and still pass that.

5 mile run in 40 minutes or less
Pullups- 10 minimum
Pushups in 2 minutes - 60 minimum
12 mile ruck run with 50 pounds in under 3 hours 30 minutes

Post: #11

Interesting

I think his test would rule out a lot of otherwise fit, capable people who aren't all that "barbell strong" though.

I like the 400m sprint and 12 chinups though.

I would say something like:

12 *pullups* (overhand arguably more practical)
400m sprint under 70s
100 bodyweight squats done quick, no pauses

I think that's a bit more weighted to functional strength endurance, more specific to a soldier than deadlifting/pressing, and easier to train for. If you dont have natural strength, getting that deadlift/press he wants will take you a year+ in the gym.

Post: #12

I think you guys are underestimating just how long a 75%bw strict press can take for a relatively tall guy to develop. Look at General stalin's progress thread to see how long it can take for a decently strong and sizeable guy to hit that kind of weight. A .75x bw strict press is a good lift for guys who are not serious athletes (as most soldiers are not).

Likewise a 2xbw deadlift. By lifting standards, outside strength sports, that is a very strong lift and you only see a handful of people in real life who can do it.

Post: #13

They're decent functional strength standards, but it could do with medium distance (5km) timed run added in. I think someone could pass all of the above and have low endurance capabilities, which could easily be a bit dicey in combat.

@RichieP the deadlift requirement is to approximately simulate being able to pick up a fully loaded squad-mate and carry him under duress, so makes sense in that light (its discussed a bit in the full article).

@H1N1 I got the impression from the article these wouldn't be entry requirements (ie aimed at untrained/barely trained recruits), but instead be mid-service requirements for those in combat roles/units. Which makes a bit more sense - these guys would presumably have had months/years of training leading up to deployment, so could/should have done a lot of weights work.

Post: #14

(08-27-2016 06:58 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Here are the requirements:

1. 2X bodyweight deadlift.
2. Standing Overhead Press with 75% of bodyweight on the bar.
3. Chin-ups-12 minimum
4. 400 meters in 75 seconds or less.

1. I haven't deadlifted in two years, but at the time I could do a 1.75X bodyweight deadlift. It came easily to me. I'm skinny and the 'trainers' would come over and try to help me as if I had never been in a gym before. I think I could get to 2X or close but I haven't done that yet. NO
2. I'm weak at Standing Overhead Press. I haven't tried a 1RM is a while. I can currently do 0.5X bodyweight for 10 reps, but I doubt I could do 1.75X even once with proper form. I never could get my shoulder press to improve using Starting Strength or 5x5. Would like to. NO
3. Just this week I did 14 strict deadhang pullups, which are generally harder than chinups, so I think I could do 12 chinups easily. I've always wanted to get this up to 20, the perfect for the USMC PFT. I've gotten as close as 17. YES
4. I haven't been doing much running recently but I think I could manage 75 seconds. In my early forties I was running 400m under 60 seconds. YES

Post: #15

I pass.

I lift weights since several years but I don't call my self extreme strong. I read the full article and agree there is no focus on increase strength so far. I'm a sport guy and have a good all round athletics but for those that never train in weights it can be hard. I did start quite late to lift weights, in my middle 20s, before I did other sports. When I see now guys that did start with 15 or 16 to lift weights and they are now in their 20s and did it right, they are extreme strong compare to others. But they start as teens and this is something I want to pass on to my kids. Guys in their 40s can start to train for a marathon and mostly pass it but it will be hard for them to lift a certain weight. The development of strength is so hard and takes such a long time. Unfortunately our education focus more on cardio and general athletics then on strength training. We did almost everything in school but never touch any weights. And this you see when people hit the first time the gym.

Start lifting weights early and add some more athletic sport like football, boxing, gymnastics etc and you will not have any issues at all later.

Post: #16

Military is more concerned with muscular endurance than raw strength. A 2x BW DL and a .75x BW OHP are not necessary and would rule out a lot of potential recruits. This is why basic military PT is a lot of long-distance running, high-rep bodyweight exercises, etc. The most weight you'd likely ever have to worry about moving is having to drag a fellow soldier to safety while both of you are wearing full gear.

Post: #17

Most grunts wouldn't pass this after their first enlistment. And most of the guys in Special Operations have to get waivers in order to "pass" their physicals. This looks great on paper and kudos to you if you can do it, but this shit is completely unrealistic for military personnel. If you're doing your job as a soldier or Marine how do you maintain this standard? You don't.... This is for dudes that look like Tarzan, but fight like Jane.

Post: #18

I said "No" but I'm very close on most. Realistically, I need to drop 20-30 lbs. of fat weight, or add 10-15 to my press and 20 to my deadlift.

Post: #19

(08-29-2016 02:25 PM)vinman Wrote:  If you're doing your job as a soldier or Marine how do you maintain this standard? You don't.... This is for dudes that look like Tarzan, but fight like Jane.

Agreed. You don't need this level of fitness to do the job. But it's good to have reached it at one point. It's like a musician who has learned theory or scales (not usually needed for performance) or an engineer who has studied calculus (even though you usually just consult a formula on the job). It adds maturity and makes other stuff look easier. Having gotten there affects your performance and outlook in subtle ways.

Post: #20

How is this standard hard to maintain? You do not need to be jacked at all to lift these amounts.

Post: #21

2x Bw DL and 0.75 Bw Press will take a novice lifter a year+ of barbell lifts in the gym to gain, and regular barbell lifting to maintain.

That's for guys who aren't naturally "strong" (and there are many athletic, fit guys like that).

Personally as an "average" genetics guy who lifts, I can not maintain a 2x bw deadlift unless I'm doing barbell lifts in a gym regularly. Which presumably soldiers are not.

Post: #22

As easy as this would be for me to pass, I guess that it would actually be pretty challenging for most of the general population, making it something reasonable for soldiers to train and strive for.

I do take issue with the mainly anaerobic component to this sequence. None of these take much, if any, of the cardiovascular endurance that is necessary for so many military operations for a number of different units.

Post: #23

1. 2X bodyweight deadlift.
Due to logistics and finances I train at home and nature and don't have access to heavy dead lifting. Since I last trained in a gym my bodyweight has changed so I have no idea.
2. Standing Overhead Press with 75% of bodyweight on the bar.
Assuming the bar can be substituted with two 32 kg kettlebells - yes.
3. Chin-ups-12 minimum
Easily.
4. 400 meters in 75 seconds or less.
No idea.

Post: #24

Assuming we're talking 1 rep max for the straight bar stuff, I could do everything with the exception of the OHP. I haven't tried though I might surprise myself if I tried.

Post: #25

Pass, I'm not that strong I just don't weigh much. Pretty low bar I think.