Post: #26

You have bigger problems then just not being able to see your son a few days a month. And $800 is nothing. When that kid hits his teens, she is going to chase you down for twice that.

She already moved away, to Florida - #YOLO- so she is already on the road to estrangement. You are going to fully lose your son.

If you really want to be a part of your sons life, and have the ability to do so, go for full custody. If you can inspire El Mech, he can offer all sorts of advice on how to do this.

Women generally move to Florida for one reason. See above #YOLO

Post: #27

Ok..

You've never married the mother, but your name is on the bc. Legally, you're (half ?) responsible for the child.

You haven't been directed by the court, yet you're giving her $800 a month ? Why ? Expect to pay that, and (it sounds like) probably more. Most likely whatever the state guidelines are for that. Right now you're giving her a 'freebie'. Stop doing that now. Buy the kid clothes and toys, but for god's sake stop giving her money unless the court tells you to.

You can impute her potential income, at least closing the gap a bit. If she has the potential to make a significant amount of money, anywhere close to what you're making, that can close the gap significantly.

If your annual income is $100K/year, and her potential, potential income is, say, $60K/year, the difference is.. $40K.
The CS percentage for one child (at least in NY) is I believe 17%.. Of the difference ($40K).
17% of $40K is $6800, annually. Divided by 12 months = $566.66

Obviously if her potential income is considerably less, then your monthly CS payment will be higher.

Does she have any degrees or training in a specific field that could offset your future, court ordered payments ?

Quote:But anyway she has signed a contract I wrote last month stating she would meet me or my parents half way so he can spend time with me and my side of the family.

Last month.. four to six weeks ago... and she's already changing it up..

This "contract" doesn't mean shit.

You can have her sign a contract to bring you a large pepperoni pizza every Tuesday, Thursday, and every other weekend. At any point, she can bring you a medium with cheese if she wants to. Hell, she can stop bringing you pepperoni pizzas altogether. Unless there's a court order stating specifically that she has to bring you large pepperoni pizzas.

So you decide to take her to court because she isn't bringing you large pepperoni pizzas. The judge is going to ask what the court order says. If it ain't in the court order, guess what, no pizza for you.

The court order is basically used to settle disputes that you and the mother can't agree on. Your court order will be the most important document you ever negotiate.
Do not take this document lightly. This will be the template for everything moving forward. That said, be realistic in your goals. Some things may be more costly to litigate versus simply conceding X.

But always get something when you give something. Always. Think of every possible scenario, and stack it into the court order. Make it airtight. (This is where you get, among other things, the 'halfway' meet written in stone in a legal document).

One of the biggest hurdles you have working against you right now is that she moved, with the kid, 14 hours away. And has been in the new residence for more than six months. Establishing residency.

And take note, the longer you wait, she can potentially go after you for back support. Rendering your previous $800 per month a 'gift'.

Take that $800 a month and get your hands on an attorney. Today.

Above all, see your son. Make the drives for now. Show the court that you want to be in your son's life.

Post: #28

(08-18-2016 09:44 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Thanks for the advice. I have no problem paying 800$ but I don't know anybody else paying that high of child support. Based on my gross income it is a good deal to pay that. Besides that however my main concern is her throwing in my face she doesn't have to meet me half way.

You've actually got a not-too-terrible situation compared to mine and other fathers I know sharing custody with an ex. Here are my thoughts:

1) This is all a negotiation with the goal of what is best for your kid, and what you can tolerate towards that end. If necessary, shift your mindset from "this is unfair" to "how can we agree to something we can live with". If you're angry with her for whatever reason, deal with that, as it could hurt your judgement and negotiating skills. Easy to say and tough to do, believe me I know.

2) Propose a compromise "If we meet in Podunktown for the exchange, which is 8 hours from me and 6 from you, would that work? In exchange let's cut the child support from $800 to $750 for the extra gas and wear and tear on my car"

3) Most importantly, as others have said, get something from the courts on paper. Then she cannot "throw in your face" something later, moving the goalposts whenever she wants. Consider a mediator, since that could be seen by her as less adversarial and perhaps be easier for you to reach agreement quickly. In any case you will probably end up paying more in CS, since as you know you got a sweet deal there, but you will have the security of a court-mandated protection of your interests. You have 16+ years of this left, what will you do if she starts making unilateral decisions for the child's school/church/medical issues? Vacation time during summers when the kid is in school? Halloween with you or her this year? Trust me, having all that hammered out in a document is well worth it so you don't have to discuss every time or remember what you did last year.

Post: #29

(08-19-2016 11:57 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  If your annual income is $100K/year, and her potential, potential income is, say, $60K/year, the difference is.. $40K.
The CS percentage for one child (at least in NY) is I believe 17%.. Of the difference ($40K).
17% of $40K is $6800, annually. Divided by 12 months = $566.66

Obviously if her potential income is considerably less, then your monthly CS payment will be higher.

I wish, but that is not correct. In NY it's 17% of your gross - FICA + Daycare/Medical/etc. The Mother's pay really doesn't come into play. I believe the man's salary is capped at $130,000/year now but the judge can always go higher if he wants.

NewDayNewFace: You mentioned she is going to move back to your hometown where you live in June? If that's correct, maybe think about waiting it out for that to happen instead of going to court.

What about getting a short term apt in her city or close by and living there for a little while?

How do the child support laws differ between your state and Florida? Which is more Father friendly? It could help guide what you do, where you live, etc.

Post: #30

Sam Malone, only actual income counts and it only decides in possible decreases in support paid.

You also have the money vs object as "gifts" backwards. The court counts money doled out. Toys, diapers and other things count for nothing when showing a record of support lent. Are you speaking from a place of experience or not?

On what Engineer said;
Yea it's nice to draw up ever decision as you wish, but if you keep it out of court for your entire lives, she can still support and possible gain back payments past the age of 18 if the court allows it. Most states have monthly and yearly caps. I'd rather work with that than have a woman's appeasement lording over me for the rest of my life.

Again on what Engineer said;
if you don't take it to court, her willingness is all you have as far as say in how to raise the child goes. We all know women are the more stubborn and less rational sex.

Post: #31

(08-19-2016 02:58 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  On what Engineer said;
Yea it's nice to draw up ever decision as you wish, but if you keep it out of court for your entire lives, she can still support and possible gain back payments past the age of 18 if the court allows it. Most states have monthly and yearly caps. I'd rather work with that than have a woman's appeasement lording over me for the rest of my life.

Again on what Engineer said;
if you don't take it to court, her willingness is all you have as far as say in how to raise the child goes. We all know women are the more stubborn and less rational sex.

I wasn't clear, the mediator option includes getting a court order. Spend 10 hours with your ex and the mediator, a good one will have a boilerplate form covering 90% of the common issues and you'll spend most of your time negotiating the special things for your circumstance like the OP's travel thing, then the court approves the document and issues a judgement or whatever, and you save yourself 10,000 hours later arguing about stupid details. You both agreed to it, so it will be harder for her to argue her way out of some commitment in there.

The less adversarial part of mediation is it's not a battle royale with lawyers like you sometimes see. Of course you should still have an attorney review the final document to make sure the mediator didn't drop the ball somehow. This is how I had things done and it's not ideal but has served everyone fairly well for the last 13 years. I had a separation then divorce, so OP's situation is slightly different.

Final note, Merenguero is an expert on this. Disregard his advice at your own risk!

Post: #32

Everything I give her has Child Support on it just to cover my tracks.

This girl is moving back to my hometown next June just because she wants to get back with me so bad. We have been broken up for ten months but it's been ridiculous. She has visited me at my work locations 2x and spent weeks with me at my work locations. Whenever we have been together physically we get along but whenever she goes back to Florida she goes crazy and pushes me away. She wants me to live with her in Florida for 10 months until she moves back to my hometown.

It's to a point where I don't want to be with her at all. She can't get that through her head though and she still wants me to spend time with her on her terms. I rather not go out of my way to spend time with her. If she lived in my hometown it may have been a different story. She flew to Connecticut last month where I was working and we spent three weeks together. It was rocky at the beginning because she found out I flew out of the country on vacation without her. Idk why she was mad because I am single. She ended up calling the cops for absolutely no reason and went through all of my belongings. Towards the end of her trip we started to get along. Once she left however she goes crazy and makes it unmanageable to even talk to her let alone get along with her.

Me getting an apartment in Florida is out of the question. I don't want anything to do with that state. I plan on staying in my hometown for a very long time unless I just get a permanent job somewhere else that will make me a millionaire.

Post: #33

(08-19-2016 03:26 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  This girl is moving back to my hometown next June just because she wants to get back with me so bad.

As everyone has said, find a good lawyer. In most states you can stop the other parent from relocating by petitioning the court. Might be too late now. I don't know.

Talk to a lawyer about your options at this moment. If it's too late to force her back to your hometown, then maybe play the game and draw her back there. Once she's there you may be able to petition the court to keep her there.

I know you want this resolved in the short-term, but think long-term strategy. Which sounds like getting your son back to your hometown. Next June will arrive sooner than you think.

Post: #34

(08-19-2016 03:26 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Everything I give her has Child Support on it just to cover my tracks.

That doesn't mean shit. You aren't covering your tracks to anything.

(08-19-2016 03:26 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  She ended up calling the cops for absolutely no reason and went through all of my belongings.

Look forward to a lifetime of that type of bullshit, unless you CALL A LAWYER RIGHT NOW!

I can't believe you haven't done that yet. This question of yours has been on the forum long enough for you to have done so.

The only two reasons I see for not doing that are 1 )You are trolling NASA Test Pilot style. Or 2) You are in hawaii , and today is a holiday and lawyers offices are closed.

If #2 is the reason, Happy Admissions Day!!!!!

Aloha!

Post: #35

(08-19-2016 03:26 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Everything I give her has Child Support on it just to cover my tracks.

This girl is moving back to my hometown next June just because she wants to get back with me so bad. We have been broken up for ten months but it's been ridiculous. She has visited me at my work locations 2x and spent weeks with me at my work locations. Whenever we have been together physically we get along but whenever she goes back to Florida she goes crazy and pushes me away. She wants me to live with her in Florida for 10 months until she moves back to my hometown.

It's to a point where I don't want to be with her at all. She can't get that through her head though and she still wants me to spend time with her on her terms. I rather not go out of my way to spend time with her. If she lived in my hometown it may have been a different story. She flew to Connecticut last month where I was working and we spent three weeks together. It was rocky at the beginning because she found out I flew out of the country on vacation without her. Idk why she was mad because I am single. She ended up calling the cops for absolutely no reason and went through all of my belongings. Towards the end of her trip we started to get along. Once she left however she goes crazy and makes it unmanageable to even talk to her let alone get along with her.

Me getting an apartment in Florida is out of the question. I don't want anything to do with that state. I plan on staying in my hometown for a very long time unless I just get a permanent job somewhere else that will make me a millionaire.

Your situation is not ideal, but here is an idea. Offer to increase the support to say $1K if she moves back ASAP. You will save more than the $200 delta in gas/time on the road anyway. Once she's back in your state, petition for 1/4 custody or whatever your work schedule permits and parental rights to the degree you can. One issue to consider is if your work schedule is unpredictable, potentially affecting custody schedule, and you wouldn't expect her to accommodate that in an agreement without giving up something in return.

Good luck man, this sounds more difficult than usual.

Post: #36

You're getting solid advice from the members here and I don't have much to add at this point. I spent the majority of 2014 fighting my ex relocating with my kids across the country. It cost me $10k and a ton of time and energy, but I won and gained 50% parenting time while retaining joint decision making. My best advice is to make time with your kid a top priority, you have to demonstrate to the courts that being in your child's life is important to you. That may mean doing some unpleasant things like being in FL more than you want. And get a lawyer ASAP.

Post: #37

Let this be a lesson for any man in here, thinking about getting married / making children.
Damn, if only vasectomy was possible in my country, it'd happily shoot blank for the rest of my life.

Post: #38

(08-19-2016 02:43 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(08-19-2016 11:57 AM)Sam Malone Wrote:  If your annual income is $100K/year, and her potential, potential income is, say, $60K/year, the difference is.. $40K.
The CS percentage for one child (at least in NY) is I believe 17%.. Of the difference ($40K).
17% of $40K is $6800, annually. Divided by 12 months = $566.66

Obviously if her potential income is considerably less, then your monthly CS payment will be higher.

I wish, but that is not correct. In NY it's 17% of your gross - FICA + Daycare/Medical/etc. The Mother's pay really doesn't come into play. I believe the man's salary is capped at $130,000/year now but the judge can always go higher if he wants.

Correct, Onto.

I didn't include those for a couple of reasons. 1) they can be negotiated, 2) the mother may have the child on government benefits.

My goal with the above calculations was to get OP thinking.

(08-19-2016 02:58 PM)TonySandos Wrote:  Sam Malone, only actual income counts and it only decides in possible decreases in support paid.

You also have the money vs object as "gifts" backwards. The court counts money doled out. Toys, diapers and other things count for nothing when showing a record of support lent. Are you speaking from a place of experience or not?

Tony,

If she's got a degree in rocket science, her potential income can be used to lower his court ordered CS payment. For that matter, they can impute minimum wage on her end to help offset his payment.

It's one thing if she can't work due to a legitimate reason, it's another thing if she's voluntarily sitting at home with her thumb up her ass.

As far as the court counting money doled out, it counts for nothing if there isn't an order in place. Right now he's not legally obligated to pay anything (note:legally).

Should he show up in court and be ordered to pay $800 (or more or less), he doesn't get to skate for the X months moving forward that he's been paying her the $800 before the order.
Simply put, he won't get 'credit' for the months prior to a court order from when he's been giving her the $800.

If he buys clothes, toys, etc., the "money" is going to the kid. It's NOT potentially going in the mom's pocket to pay for _____.

All that said, OP needs to sit down with an attorney yesterday.

Edit: Tony, I must have erased a few sentences in my earlier post.

Once the court order is in place, OP should go directly through the state to pay CS. Otherwise the mom can claim she hasn't been paid.

Post: #39

I never really wanted to be a dad. I'm getting a vasectomy at some point. Having kids seems so toxic these days.

Good luck to you buddy. And don't you wife up that chick, at least not without an iron clad prenup. Good luck man!

Post: #40

^I'm right there with you. I want to get a vasectomy as well. You don't want to go through the stress and drama that I deal with.

This girl got a job as a teacher a couple months ago. Making roughly 40k a year. She has a degree in Finance. As far as me, I work as an independent contractor. Kind of like the oil rig gig but with Healthcare IT. If I got a full time job doing what I do in one area I would probably make 70-80k a year. Because I'm a contractor I can negotiate a lot more money.

Guys, I'm going to definitely be calling lawyers next week. Should I get a lawyer in Georgia or in Florida. Also any tips on what to look for when I hire a lawyer?

Post: #41

(08-20-2016 08:19 AM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Guys, I'm going to definitely be calling lawyers next week. Should I get a lawyer in Georgia or in Florida. Also any tips on what to look for when I hire a lawyer?

It would be great if you got serious about your kids and took this seriously by going through the proper channels and hiring a lawyer. Its funny when these guys who say they care about their kids are more likely to take their car in for an oil change, than call a lawyer to protect their rights as fathers. You probably are afraid of hurting your wifes feelings, thats why most guys refuse to protect their rights as fathers.

Good advice is only good when given to those who use it.

Cordell & Cordell are nationwide and one of the leading divorce attorney's with offices in FLA and GA.
http://cordellcordell.com/

This is the place to go and ask specific questions, but they are not going to be easy on you like we have been here.
http://forum.mensdivorce.com/

I would seriously ask yourself if you want your kids in your life. Its a valid question for yourself at this point. If you are not so ready and willing to put it all on the line to keep them, you have to seriously ask yourself why you are not reacting that way to this. Lots of people divorce and the fathers go away, never to be seen or heard from again. Not saying its ok, or what I personally did, but lots of people do it.

Post: #42

(08-19-2016 03:26 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Everything I give her has Child Support on it just to cover my tracks.

This girl is moving back to my hometown next June just because she wants to get back with me so bad. We have been broken up for ten months but it's been ridiculous. She has visited me at my work locations 2x and spent weeks with me at my work locations. Whenever we have been together physically we get along but whenever she goes back to Florida she goes crazy and pushes me away. She wants me to live with her in Florida for 10 months until she moves back to my hometown.

It's to a point where I don't want to be with her at all. She can't get that through her head though and she still wants me to spend time with her on her terms. I rather not go out of my way to spend time with her. If she lived in my hometown it may have been a different story. She flew to Connecticut last month where I was working and we spent three weeks together. It was rocky at the beginning because she found out I flew out of the country on vacation without her. Idk why she was mad because I am single. She ended up calling the cops for absolutely no reason and went through all of my belongings. Towards the end of her trip we started to get along. Once she left however she goes crazy and makes it unmanageable to even talk to her let alone get along with her.

Me getting an apartment in Florida is out of the question. I don't want anything to do with that state. I plan on staying in my hometown for a very long time unless I just get a permanent job somewhere else that will make me a millionaire.

If she wants to get back with you badly, lull her into a false sense of security while you make your legal arrangements. When the hammer is ready to drop...ie divorce papers and temporary separation agreement are ready to go...have a game plan, and a recording device because she will go psycho.

Make no mistakes about what I am about to say. This woman has called the cops on you for no reason, bailed to another state and now is trying to manipulate you via your child. This woman is your enemy, she has none of your interests in mind.

Rope a dope her and cover your ass for the worst possible outcomes. Again ask ghost tiger what the 'worst possible outcomes' look like when the shit hits the fan.

Post: #43

Everyone thanks for the advice. After reading everything I've come to a conclusion that I have to just be nice to her and try to get her to move back to Georgia. That's really the best opportunity I have to be in my sons life without moving to Florida. I just have to try my hardest to get along with her. I'm going to try for my sons sake. I just don't think he can live a good life there in Florida. Her family is a dysfunctional family. I just seen my son this weekend and actually have him for this week for 7 days. When I seen him he had scratches and bruises on his face. The mother told me that he got them from day care and the other day he fell at her dads pool. It's really sad whats going on to this 15 month old boy. So I'm going to try to find him another day care this week.

Since me and her have been broken up I've been writing her checks for 800$ with Child Support on them. Is that appropriate from you guys experience or should I just be more hands on and pay directly for his day care and clothes etc?

And to everyone. Don't worry. I will talk to Georgia lawyers tomorrow and then just line up everything I must do once she does move back to Georgia to protect me.

Post: #44

Paying bills directly does favor better than handing out money, but that's only from what I know in my state.

Post: #45

If he is showing up with injuries you deem suspicious you should take him to a doctor for evaluation. You may need the documentation / doctor's testimony later on.

Post: #46

(08-21-2016 06:20 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Everyone thanks for the advice. After reading everything I've come to a conclusion that I have to just be nice to her and try to get her to move back to Georgia. That's really the best opportunity I have to be in my sons life without moving to Florida. I just have to try my hardest to get along with her. I'm going to try for my sons sake. I just don't think he can live a good life there in Florida. Her family is a dysfunctional family. I just seen my son this weekend and actually have him for this week for 7 days. When I seen him he had scratches and bruises on his face. The mother told me that he got them from day care and the other day he fell at her dads pool. It's really sad whats going on to this 15 month old boy. So I'm going to try to find him another day care this week.

Since me and her have been broken up I've been writing her checks for 800$ with Child Support on them. Is that appropriate from you guys experience or should I just be more hands on and pay directly for his day care and clothes etc?

And to everyone. Don't worry. I will talk to Georgia lawyers tomorrow and then just line up everything I must do once she does move back to Georgia to protect me.

With all due respect, how old are you?

If the baby is showing up scratched and bruised you need to call the daycare center immediately and verify that's where it happened. If not, while he is in your possession you need to unleash fury on this twat. Cops, lawyers, everything.

Also, if you are meeting with lawyers in your area, meet with every damn one of them. There's probably some type of conflict of interest rule. That means none of those lawyers can ever represent the bitch even if she tries.

That's what tony soprano did when he was having marital issues.

Aloha!

Post: #47

What is this Mickey Mouse bullshit? You send her monthly checks for $800, at first saying "it's a lot more than other people pay" but later you say it's not even mandated, you just write "for child support" on the checks. You also claim you make well into six figures, but you're complaining about not wanting to pay for a hotel... you still haven't contacted a lawyer, and now your 15 month old has bruises on his face but you're just accepting the mom's excuses? None of this adds up to "concerned father wanting to spend time with son".

You're either trolling or you'd be a piece of shit father/caretaker cuz you'd likely be as half assed about taking care of your kid as you are dealing with this situation. I think you are seriously disrespecting some of these guys who have shared their struggles on this forum moving mountains to have a fair shake at spending time with their kids.

Post: #48

I'm calling the daycare today and going to have a talk with the director. I'm seriously leaning towards just having him go to another daycare. It's ridiculous what's going on and it's unacceptable. I am 26 years old.

Booshala I posted here so I can get advice on what to do. At the end of the day I want to do what is fair and that's WhYI'm asking all of these questions. Yes, I make 6 figures but just because I do doesn't mean I'm going to be spending my money on plane tickets and hotels if I don't have to. What I deemed fair and the agreement me and her came up with was to meet half way and to get my son. If me and her agreed to that then yea... I would complain if I have to fly or get a hotel. That's not what was agreed upon.

As mentioned before I'll be talking with lawyers today and lining my ducks in a row.

I'm not half assing the situation anymore. I may have before in the hopes that me and her would have resolved things but I realized I should have gotten a lawyer when we first broke up.

Post: #49

Getting to move her to GA is certainly a wise decision. But...try to keep some distance from her (i.e do not live with her in the same apartment, or in the same city if possible). I grew in similar conditions like your son, and trust me...living in a dysfunctional household ain't pretty. I had many of the mental scars during most of my childhood.


And if your son has bruises...I would contact the relevant authorities straight away! If you take advantage of that (if you make 100k, you have the means), contact the best lawyers in the area, and teach her a lesson.


Keep us updated!

Post: #50

(08-21-2016 06:20 PM)NewDayNewFace Wrote:  Everyone thanks for the advice. After reading everything I've come to a conclusion that I have to just be nice to her and try to get her to move back to Georgia. That's really the best opportunity I have to be in my sons life without moving to Florida. I just have to try my hardest to get along with her. I'm going to try for my sons sake. I just don't think he can live a good life there in Florida. Her family is a dysfunctional family. I just seen my son this weekend and actually have him for this week for 7 days. When I seen him he had scratches and bruises on his face. The mother told me that he got them from day care and the other day he fell at her dads pool. It's really sad whats going on to this 15 month old boy. So I'm going to try to find him another day care this week.

Since me and her have been broken up I've been writing her checks for 800$ with Child Support on them. Is that appropriate from you guys experience or should I just be more hands on and pay directly for his day care and clothes etc?

And to everyone. Don't worry. I will talk to Georgia lawyers tomorrow and then just line up everything I must do once she does move back to Georgia to protect me.

You really need to ask these questions to a lawyer. Don't seek important legal advice here.

As far as the scratches on your son's face, that's part of being an active kid. I can't tell you how many times I returned my son to his Mom with a bruised forehead, cuts, scratches and all the rest.

She never got pissed because she knew it happens with her too. You can keep the kid in a crate all day and they will look perfect, but if you let him out and allow him the freedom to explore, experiment and really live then he's going to get banged up. It's good for him really. You'll see.

I think you're making the right move in being patient.