Post: #151

(08-12-2016 07:53 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:42 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:38 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:35 PM)Going strong Wrote:  In any case, if you or anybody think that "Spaniards are racists", well, nobody forces you to go live in their country.

And it is valid for any other country in the world: if such or such country is "full of bad, racist, macho people", then, why would you go there? Just stay away from Europe, if we are so "raycisst" and devoid of human qualities...

It's like what happens with most (mainly Sub-Saharan) illegal migrants: most of them when they are interviewed, will say, "Oh Spaniards and French and Belgians and Germans, they are bad, bad, they are racists"... Ok, but then, why do they keep coming? If we are so bad and unfriendly people, why are, for example, Spain and France the 2 main global destinations in the whole world? Maybe, just maybe we actually are good people and our countries are full of splendid tourist places and assorted wonders? Or are millions and millions of tourists just plain wrong in choosing us??

I'm confused about your question. People migrate to France and Spain because they are rich countries, and have higher standards of living and more opportunities than Sub-Saharan African countries. People do not migrate from Africa because they think the French seem like jolly folk.

Exactly. They don't just cross the Sahara desert jumping for joy to meet Spaniards or French. They do it because they have no other choice ...

Absolutely not. They do have other choices. They can stay in their countries and fight for a good life in their own countries, countries that totally need the workforce and energy of young men, by the way.

Africa suffers mainly because the elite of the continent: the young, strong and dynamic men, are emigrating to Europe instead of working for the enrichment and improvement of their own countries.

See a (beautiful) country like Ivory Coast or even Ghana. A young local man totally can make a good life for himself there. But no!, most will instead just go to Barcelona: fools!

(Which reminds me, there is a -disgusting, on several accounts- famous saying in Western Africa: Get to Barcelona or die trying!... after that, people die chasing a stupid European dream, instead of fighting at home)

So why did so many europeans flee poverty and emigrated to the new world? (south american, U.S, australia etc). It's no different

Post: #152

America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

Why do you go to a different country? Either it´s tourism. Or to live. If it´s for living why do you want to change the host country? The reason you went there and not stayed in your country is because you realize the host country is superior. If it´s superior why do you want it to become the country your running away from? Criticism is good. But you cannot demand to have your country in the place your emigrating to. If so why did you emigrate?

Little flower I´m through with you. You´re nothing more than a spoiled brat. You seem really childish. Exactly what you criticize of spaniards. You´ve been working for 10 years. So you´re no adolescent. But you speak like one.

You lived in such awful country for 10 years. What a dumb fuck you are. During the 10 years didn´t it never occurred to move?

Either you lived there and it was good. Or you lived in a shithole consciously and enjoyed. Both accounts you´re an idiot.

Guiri, neither in Spain nor nowhere in the world. You´re a spoiled brat. Your stupidness is not related to nationality. It´s unique in your human being. Your attitude sucks. And if you thought spanish should put up with you just because you´re american. You´re seriously deluded.

If Trump wins I might go to the US or at least invest in it. Even though I have a comfortable life. I admire the man. And I never admired a politician in my life.

Many, many countries in the world, including US would like to be Europe´s basket case. At this point the US is holding to its military. Because nothing else is superior. And they better use it fast. Because it will not take much time for them to loose the upper hand. And if this happens we´re in for serious chaos.

Comparing western european countries is like comparing top 5 Ivy league universities. They are all good. Sometimes one ranks better. Other times other.

Southern europe countries are great places to live. For work it´s a different ball game. The aversion to risk and red tape is an headache. A guiri like you who make easy money speaking his own language why are you complaining?

Post: #153

(08-12-2016 08:06 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:54 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:45 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:38 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:35 PM)Going strong Wrote:  In any case, if you or anybody think that "Spaniards are racists", well, nobody forces you to go live in their country.

And it is valid for any other country in the world: if such or such country is "full of bad, racist, macho people", then, why would you go there? Just stay away from Europe, if we are so "raycisst" and devoid of human qualities...

It's like what happens with most (mainly Sub-Saharan) illegal migrants: most of them when they are interviewed, will say, "Oh Spaniards and French and Belgians and Germans, they are bad, bad, they are racists"... Ok, but then, why do they keep coming? If we are so bad and unfriendly people, why are, for example, Spain and France the 2 main global destinations in the whole world? Maybe, just maybe we actually are good people and our countries are full of splendid tourist places and assorted wonders? Or are millions and millions of tourists just plain wrong in choosing us??

I'm confused about your question. People migrate to France and Spain because they are rich countries, and have higher standards of living and more opportunities than Sub-Saharan African countries. People do not migrate from Africa because they think the French seem like jolly folk.

Then, if they go to our countries to profit from our wealth (which they do), they should learn to silence their criticism, shouldn't they?

I mean, if you go to a rich and prosperous place to get a better living, should you insult the original and legal, native inhabitants, or should you seriously shut your mouth and adapt to the local culture without bitching?

What good is emigrating to a wealthy and functioning country, if the first thing you do, is hating on its native people? Just stay home, and fight for your own country's improvement, if "other countries are full of racists".

Are you asking why they should exercise their right to free speech

But what "right to free speech" are you talking about, hombre?

Only the people residing legally to any given country have a "right to free speech". People who are illegal and therefore breaking the laws, should have only one right: to shut their mouths and lay low. Or, even better if they don't feel happy where they are: going back to their (absolutely not war-torn, contrarily to what MSM says) countries.

Free speech is a chance, a right that you gain when you respect the law. If you are an outlaw (or just a passing foreigner), well, you should remain silent. Or leave.

Sure, what about those who worked for years, migrated there legally or were even born and raised there? Are their complaints of racism valid or not? If you are not French ethnically and feel that people are racist toward you, do you reserve the right to criticize?

Post: #154

(08-12-2016 08:01 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  "Why don't young men go change their countries" - then you reference the Ivory Coast, a place that has had two civil wars with in the past 10 years? People are fighting in these countries, that is why many of them leave, because of civil war. Not everyone cares to be caught up in a war, Europeans are not any different. If a French civil war broke out, a lot of French families would go to safer countries, and would hope to have welcoming hospitality to some degree(and even if they weren't welcomed, they would still go because their safety takes priority), this isn't a foreign concept.

America has taken in Europeans for decades now for similar reasons. Europeans were discriminated against in America, they spoke up, things changed, and America was for the better.

Lol. "People are fighting, dying, as we talk in Ivory Coast, one cannot live there"...?

Ivory Coast, FYI, is perfectly at peace, and has been for a long time. Local people absolutely can make a nice living for themselves, there. No need to "emigrate to Barcelona" and pester the Spaniards.

And by the way, why is Ivory Coast at peace, and perfectly livable?

Well, it's because the "bad, racist" French soldiers came to stop the ethnic-religious war between North (islamic) and South, and to save millions of African lives. Bad, racist French, sure... bad Frenchmen who save millions of lives in Africa, using French soldiers to maintain peace throughout the continent (see Mali, Centrafrique: so many on-going genocides stopped by the French army). Bad, racist attitude, I know...

Anyway, point is: essentially thanks to the French army, Africa is 98% a perfectly livable place. No "absolute need" to emigrate to Spain or France.

Post: #155

(08-12-2016 08:11 PM)stavastano Wrote:  America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

America was founded by Italy? Polish? Irish? Slavs? Yes, they were found by Europeans - and as a result those ethnic groups (English, Dutch, German, French) have always been welcomed. Southern and Eastern Europe were not founders of America, yet they migrated here in flux, because their own homes were too shitty to raise a family there - so they made a better lives for themselves else where, that isn't any different from African migration.

Guess what, Americans thought Southern, Eastern and Irish Europeans were a cancer, lazy, illegals and all that other hooplah and discriminated against them, and eventually it stopped.


Also, despite the genocide of the Native Americans, America isn't as "white" as Europeans or the rest of the world likes to paint it as.

Post: #156

"If you complain about racism, don't go there" is just a silly argument. Every countries has negative aspects and anyone is free to expressing their opinion or comment on things they don't like. It's not like he is going to spaniards and talking shit in their face, he wrote a post in an internet forum.

Now if you demand special treatment or demand institutional change then that is much different.

I've lived in a few countries and they all have aspects that i loved and hated. For example, i would love to go to colombia. Does it mean it's perfect? NO. There is still institutional racism, dirty streets, povert, violence, corruption etc. It won't stop me from going there.

Post: #157

(08-12-2016 08:09 PM)Guayacan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:53 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:42 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:38 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:35 PM)Going strong Wrote:  In any case, if you or anybody think that "Spaniards are racists", well, nobody forces you to go live in their country.

And it is valid for any other country in the world: if such or such country is "full of bad, racist, macho people", then, why would you go there? Just stay away from Europe, if we are so "raycisst" and devoid of human qualities...

It's like what happens with most (mainly Sub-Saharan) illegal migrants: most of them when they are interviewed, will say, "Oh Spaniards and French and Belgians and Germans, they are bad, bad, they are racists"... Ok, but then, why do they keep coming? If we are so bad and unfriendly people, why are, for example, Spain and France the 2 main global destinations in the whole world? Maybe, just maybe we actually are good people and our countries are full of splendid tourist places and assorted wonders? Or are millions and millions of tourists just plain wrong in choosing us??

I'm confused about your question. People migrate to France and Spain because they are rich countries, and have higher standards of living and more opportunities than Sub-Saharan African countries. People do not migrate from Africa because they think the French seem like jolly folk.

Exactly. They don't just cross the Sahara desert jumping for joy to meet Spaniards or French. They do it because they have no other choice ...

Absolutely not. They do have other choices. They can stay in their countries and fight for a good life in their own countries, countries that totally need the workforce and energy of young men, by the way.

Africa suffers mainly because the elite of the continent: the young, strong and dynamic men, are emigrating to Europe instead of working for the enrichment and improvement of their own countries.

See a (beautiful) country like Ivory Coast or even Ghana. A young local man totally can make a good life for himself there. But no!, most will instead just go to Barcelona: fools!

(Which reminds me, there is a -disgusting, on several accounts- famous saying in Western Africa: Get to Barcelona or die trying!... after that, people die chasing a stupid European dream, instead of fighting at home)

So why did so many europeans flee poverty and emigrated to the new world? (south american, U.S, australia etc). It's no different

It's totally different. At that time, Europeans went to places where there was no unemployment (and therefore they were welcome). Places in need of workforce, places basically empty, often.

But Europe in 2016 (and especially Spain, or Greece), it's already full of unemployment, and far from being empty like Alaska or Patagonia were: so, people have no (honest) business emigrating en-masse to our shores. We have no jobs for them. Migrants therefore should forget about France and Spain, and aim for (prosperous and empty) Canada.

Post: #158

(08-12-2016 08:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:01 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  "Why don't young men go change their countries" - then you reference the Ivory Coast, a place that has had two civil wars with in the past 10 years? People are fighting in these countries, that is why many of them leave, because of civil war. Not everyone cares to be caught up in a war, Europeans are not any different. If a French civil war broke out, a lot of French families would go to safer countries, and would hope to have welcoming hospitality to some degree(and even if they weren't welcomed, they would still go because their safety takes priority), this isn't a foreign concept.

America has taken in Europeans for decades now for similar reasons. Europeans were discriminated against in America, they spoke up, things changed, and America was for the better.

Lol. "People are fighting, dying, as we talk in Ivory Coast, one cannot live there"...?

Ivory Coast, FYI, is perfectly at peace, and has been for a long time. Local people absolutely can make a nice living for themselves, there. No need to "emigrate to Barcelona" and pester the Spaniards.

And by the way, why is Ivory Coast at peace, and perfectly livable?

Well, it's because the "bad, racist" French soldiers came to stop the ethnic-religious war between North (islamic) and South, and to save millions of African lives. Bad, racist French, sure... bad Frenchmen who save millions of lives in Africa, using French soldiers to maintain peace throughout the continent (see Mali, Centrafrique: so many on-going genocides stopped by the French army). Bad, racist attitude, I know...

Anyway, point is: essentially thanks to the French army, Africa is 98% a perfectly livable place. No "absolute need" to emigrate to Spain or France.

Your arguments is literally filled with extremes. Yes, Ivory Coast is "fine" now, they were not fine in the ancient year of 2011, or the Jurassic era of 2002 - so if you see many people from the Ivory Coast, who have been living in France for several years, they probably had very good reasons for leaving the Ivory Coast. There is less dire reason for them to leave now, though to make it seem like because the Ivory Coast is not in war now that it is "perfectly fine" seems naive, fine to visit and fine to raise a family are two different things.


The French police Africa, it is in their interest to help the Ivory Coast, they did not stop the war out of the good of their hearts. This is like arguing the US are swell guys because they enter conflicts that do not concern them. Even then, you're still using an extreme argument - I fail to see how French soldiers stopping genocide has anything to do with a French restaurant not serving minorities. You're essentially saying that because the French are not demons, they do not do any wrong.

Anyway, I've said more of my piece, the Ivory Coast was a horrible example that you likely overlooked. You know your nation better than me, but your lack of empathy for people who experience genuine racism does trouble me a bit.

Post: #159

(08-12-2016 08:21 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:09 PM)Guayacan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:53 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:42 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:38 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  I'm confused about your question. People migrate to France and Spain because they are rich countries, and have higher standards of living and more opportunities than Sub-Saharan African countries. People do not migrate from Africa because they think the French seem like jolly folk.

Exactly. They don't just cross the Sahara desert jumping for joy to meet Spaniards or French. They do it because they have no other choice ...

Absolutely not. They do have other choices. They can stay in their countries and fight for a good life in their own countries, countries that totally need the workforce and energy of young men, by the way.

Africa suffers mainly because the elite of the continent: the young, strong and dynamic men, are emigrating to Europe instead of working for the enrichment and improvement of their own countries.

See a (beautiful) country like Ivory Coast or even Ghana. A young local man totally can make a good life for himself there. But no!, most will instead just go to Barcelona: fools!

(Which reminds me, there is a -disgusting, on several accounts- famous saying in Western Africa: Get to Barcelona or die trying!... after that, people die chasing a stupid European dream, instead of fighting at home)

So why did so many europeans flee poverty and emigrated to the new world? (south american, U.S, australia etc). It's no different

It's totally different. At that time, Europeans went to places where there was no unemployment (and therefore they were welcome). Places in need of workforce, places basically empty, often.

But Europe in 2016 (and especially Spain, or Greece), it's already full of unemployment, and far from being empty like Alaska or Patagonia were: so, people have no (honest) business emigrating en-masse to our shores. We have no jobs for them. Migrants therefore should forget about France and Spain, and aim for (prosperous and empty) Canada.

They were not welcome by natives. And they went and actually changed things ALOT.

You could complain of islamists trying to change things in Europe, or the EU and U.S trying to change things in the 3rd world, but this forum post is not even close to that?

We were discussing racism towards south americans and africans in spain. Besides complaining about racism, are they really demanding institutional change?

Post: #160

(08-12-2016 08:15 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:01 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  "Why don't young men go change their countries" - then you reference the Ivory Coast, a place that has had two civil wars with in the past 10 years? People are fighting in these countries, that is why many of them leave, because of civil war. Not everyone cares to be caught up in a war, Europeans are not any different. If a French civil war broke out, a lot of French families would go to safer countries, and would hope to have welcoming hospitality to some degree(and even if they weren't welcomed, they would still go because their safety takes priority), this isn't a foreign concept.

America has taken in Europeans for decades now for similar reasons. Europeans were discriminated against in America, they spoke up, things changed, and America was for the better.

Lol. "People are fighting, dying, as we talk in Ivory Coast, one cannot live there"...?

Ivory Coast, FYI, is perfectly at peace, and has been for a long time. Local people absolutely can make a nice living for themselves, there. No need to "emigrate to Barcelona" and pester the Spaniards.

And by the way, why is Ivory Coast at peace, and perfectly livable?

Well, it's because the "bad, racist" French soldiers came to stop the ethnic-religious war between North (islamic) and South, and to save millions of African lives. Bad, racist French, sure... bad Frenchmen who save millions of lives in Africa, using French soldiers to maintain peace throughout the continent (see Mali, Centrafrique: so many on-going genocides stopped by the French army). Bad, racist attitude, I know...

Anyway, point is: essentially thanks to the French army, Africa is 98% a perfectly livable place. No "absolute need" to emigrate to Spain or France.

This is ridiculous. We were discussing if there is racism and discrimination in spain and france but nobody ever tried to paint spaniards and french like some "evil racist people". Most french people i know are good people but it doesn't change the fact that there is more racism in france than say, norway.

You're just getting very defensive and constructing ridiculous straw man arguments.

Post: #161

This is a much more nuanced part of US history, but Europeans were not welcomed with arms because there was no unemployment, and people hated European immigrants in America because they argued that they took their jobs. During the depressions in the late 1800s and early 1900s, do you really think people were not looking at European migrants as cancers?

If you were from England, Netherlands, France or a Nordic country, you could come to the US.

Everywhere else in Europe, they did not want you, and America was fiercely racist against people from those "unwantable" ethnic groups. Iberian, Italian, Slavs, Irish - they were treated the same way Muslims and Africans are treated today in the West. This is especially true if we talk about Hawaii....there were severe quotas to stop people from Europe from migrating over, and naturally people snuck into the US. Again, only places like the UK and what not were not affected by these quotas.

Europeans probably just assume that America has always welcome them to open arms. In the past 150 years, that has not been the case, if you came from a poor country, you were a problem. If you came from a rich country, you were fine.

Post: #162

(08-12-2016 08:24 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  a French restaurant not serving minorities.

Where the heck have you heard or read of such a thing?: "a French restaurant not serving minorities"

I mean, are you serious or just trolling? There are strict laws in France against discrimination. There is not a single restaurant in France who would refuse serving a minority. Not one. Or it would be shut down in 12 hours.

Post: #163

(08-12-2016 08:18 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:11 PM)stavastano Wrote:  America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

America was founded by Italy? Polish? Irish? Slavs? Yes, they were found by Europeans - and as a result those ethnic groups (English, Dutch, German, French) have always been welcomed. Southern and Eastern Europe were not founders of America, yet they migrated here in flux, because their own homes were too shitty to raise a family there - so they made a better lives for themselves else where, that isn't any different from African migration.

Guess what, Americans thought Southern, Eastern and Irish Europeans were a cancer, lazy, illegals and all that other hooplah and discriminated against them, and eventually it stopped.


Also, despite the genocide of the Native Americans, America isn't as "white" as Europeans or the rest of the world likes to paint it as.

How exactly did the spaniards from Florida migrated actually? Please enlighten me.

Sure they aren´t white:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography...stries.jpg

btw I´m not spanish (have some ancestry). I just kept little flower in the dark.

Post: #164

(08-12-2016 08:33 PM)stavastano Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:18 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:11 PM)stavastano Wrote:  America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

America was founded by Italy? Polish? Irish? Slavs? Yes, they were found by Europeans - and as a result those ethnic groups (English, Dutch, German, French) have always been welcomed. Southern and Eastern Europe were not founders of America, yet they migrated here in flux, because their own homes were too shitty to raise a family there - so they made a better lives for themselves else where, that isn't any different from African migration.

Guess what, Americans thought Southern, Eastern and Irish Europeans were a cancer, lazy, illegals and all that other hooplah and discriminated against them, and eventually it stopped.


Also, despite the genocide of the Native Americans, America isn't as "white" as Europeans or the rest of the world likes to paint it as.

How exactly did the spaniards from Florida migrated actually? Please enlighten me.

Sure they aren´t white:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography...stries.jpg

btw I´m not spanish. I just kept little flower in the dark.

I'm confused on what you're saying.

Do you mean the Spanish that were living there when Florida had become part of the United States? Hardly anyone lived in Florida when the United States took control of Florida. Spain never cared about Florida.


The Spanish tried coming over to America during their Civil War and Franco's reign. They were not wanted.

The Spanish is not the easiest example to talk about, because there was not a mass exodus. However, Americans did not want the Spanish. I know a lot about Hawaiian history in particular, which was ruled by Americans, and they thought the Spanish and Portuguese were just as problematic as the Japanese and Filipinos.

Post: #165

(08-12-2016 08:31 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:24 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  a French restaurant not serving minorities.

Where the heck have you heard or read of such a thing?: "a French restaurant not serving minorities"

I mean, are you serious or just trolling? There are strict laws in France against discrimination. There is not a single restaurant in France who would refuse serving a minority. Not one. Or it would be shut down in 12 hours.

No, I don't think that particular example happens - but it was just an example of the apple and orange argument you're trying to make.

The French intervening in a civil war has nothing to do with discrimination in their country. Though, in a business sense, minorities are discriminated against in France, I'm not sure how you can deny that - regardless if it is legal or not.

Post: #166

(08-12-2016 08:37 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:33 PM)stavastano Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:18 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:11 PM)stavastano Wrote:  America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

America was founded by Italy? Polish? Irish? Slavs? Yes, they were found by Europeans - and as a result those ethnic groups (English, Dutch, German, French) have always been welcomed. Southern and Eastern Europe were not founders of America, yet they migrated here in flux, because their own homes were too shitty to raise a family there - so they made a better lives for themselves else where, that isn't any different from African migration.

Guess what, Americans thought Southern, Eastern and Irish Europeans were a cancer, lazy, illegals and all that other hooplah and discriminated against them, and eventually it stopped.


Also, despite the genocide of the Native Americans, America isn't as "white" as Europeans or the rest of the world likes to paint it as.

How exactly did the spaniards from Florida migrated actually? Please enlighten me.

Sure they aren´t white:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography...stries.jpg

btw I´m not spanish. I just kept little flower in the dark.

I'm confused on what you're saying.

Do you mean the Spanish that were living there when Florida had become part of the United States? Hardly anyone lived in Florida when the United States took control of Florida. Spain never cared about Florida.


The Spanish tried coming over to America during their Civil War and Franco's reign. They were not wanted.

The Spanish is not the easiest example to talk about, because there was not a mass exodus. However, Americans did not want the Spanish. I know a lot about Hawaiian history in particular, which was ruled by Americans, and they thought the Spanish and Portuguese were just as problematic as the Japanese and Filipinos.

Hawai han? Do you realize the ukulele is a portuguese guitar? Spain and Portugal were rich countries by then. They didn´t care because they didn´t need to.

Post: #167

(08-12-2016 05:00 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  I had a semi-girlfriend who was from Spain, and she fit a lot of the stereotypes the OP described.

She was overall, not that interesting to talk too. She was very kind, and she liked to fiesta a lot...but too much. She would get mad at my friends if they weren't singing and dancing and all that every time we were out, like she would legitimately be a little pissy.

When ever I tried to have a deeper discussion about anything, she pretty much never had anything to say, just gave a few words that spelled out indifference. One time me and some friends actually got in a debate about politics and social stuff, and she was mad that we were talking about all that shit.

She was very loyal though, and family devoted, pretty much connected to her parents despite them being an ocean away even though she was a grown woman (albeit in early 20s). After a while I thought she was too clingy, which is why I stopped seeing her (she still tried to see me all the time though even after I put her down pretty badly). Not a lot of feminist characteristics, unless having a career makes someone feminist - she was quite traditional for the most part. From the looks of it, she was big into her social circle in Madrid.

She grew up in rural Spain and went to Madrid for Uni/work (which she still hasn't found, just interning still after a couple of years of looking), so I think she does have good perspective from both sides of Spain. The only thing that ever got her fired up was talking about Catalans leaving Spain, in which she said the hell with them - but she never bothered to elaborate, she would just say that "if they want to go, then they should go, they're downers anyway" (paraphrasing). We met in Asia, and she REALLY did not like Asian work culture, it was too serious for her I think.

It's funny because this is what I see a lot of guys here looking for.

As long as her N-Count was low, a lot of guys would be "sign me up".

This is the girl that a lot of guys want to be the mother of their children, their children's primary teacher.

I've dated a handful of these girls, and I find them to be mind numbing nightmare.

WIA

Post: #168

Great post Baldrich.
Nice to see long term guys that have put in the work give their impressions.

WIA

Post: #169

3-day suspension to Baldrich for excessive aggression and personal insults.

Post: #170

(08-12-2016 08:48 PM)stavastano Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:37 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:33 PM)stavastano Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:18 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:11 PM)stavastano Wrote:  America hasn´t taken europeans. America was founded by europeans. It´s a proto european country. Different from other colonies because anglos wiped out the entire native population. So basically you have europeans living in a different continent. Without any mix between the invader and locals.

America was founded by Italy? Polish? Irish? Slavs? Yes, they were found by Europeans - and as a result those ethnic groups (English, Dutch, German, French) have always been welcomed. Southern and Eastern Europe were not founders of America, yet they migrated here in flux, because their own homes were too shitty to raise a family there - so they made a better lives for themselves else where, that isn't any different from African migration.

Guess what, Americans thought Southern, Eastern and Irish Europeans were a cancer, lazy, illegals and all that other hooplah and discriminated against them, and eventually it stopped.


Also, despite the genocide of the Native Americans, America isn't as "white" as Europeans or the rest of the world likes to paint it as.

How exactly did the spaniards from Florida migrated actually? Please enlighten me.

Sure they aren´t white:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography...stries.jpg

btw I´m not spanish. I just kept little flower in the dark.

I'm confused on what you're saying.

Do you mean the Spanish that were living there when Florida had become part of the United States? Hardly anyone lived in Florida when the United States took control of Florida. Spain never cared about Florida.


The Spanish tried coming over to America during their Civil War and Franco's reign. They were not wanted.

The Spanish is not the easiest example to talk about, because there was not a mass exodus. However, Americans did not want the Spanish. I know a lot about Hawaiian history in particular, which was ruled by Americans, and they thought the Spanish and Portuguese were just as problematic as the Japanese and Filipinos.

Hawai han? Do you realize the ukulele is a portuguese guitar? Spain and Portugal were rich countries by then. They didn´t care because they didn´t need to.

Special Ed?

Post: #171

It's odd that two zero post newbies in this thread both became over the top upset in similar ways. I wonder if it was a banned member.

Edit- Merenguero beat me to the thought.

Post: #172

(08-12-2016 08:26 PM)Guayacan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:21 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 08:09 PM)Guayacan Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:53 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 07:42 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  Exactly. They don't just cross the Sahara desert jumping for joy to meet Spaniards or French. They do it because they have no other choice ...

Absolutely not. They do have other choices. They can stay in their countries and fight for a good life in their own countries, countries that totally need the workforce and energy of young men, by the way.

Africa suffers mainly because the elite of the continent: the young, strong and dynamic men, are emigrating to Europe instead of working for the enrichment and improvement of their own countries.

See a (beautiful) country like Ivory Coast or even Ghana. A young local man totally can make a good life for himself there. But no!, most will instead just go to Barcelona: fools!

(Which reminds me, there is a -disgusting, on several accounts- famous saying in Western Africa: Get to Barcelona or die trying!... after that, people die chasing a stupid European dream, instead of fighting at home)

So why did so many europeans flee poverty and emigrated to the new world? (south american, U.S, australia etc). It's no different

It's totally different. At that time, Europeans went to places where there was no unemployment (and therefore they were welcome). Places in need of workforce, places basically empty, often.

But Europe in 2016 (and especially Spain, or Greece), it's already full of unemployment, and far from being empty like Alaska or Patagonia were: so, people have no (honest) business emigrating en-masse to our shores. We have no jobs for them. Migrants therefore should forget about France and Spain, and aim for (prosperous and empty) Canada.

They were not welcome by natives. And they went and actually changed things ALOT.

You could complain of islamists trying to change things in Europe, or the EU and U.S trying to change things in the 3rd world, but this forum post is not even close to that?

We were discussing racism towards south americans and africans in spain. Besides complaining about racism, are they really demanding institutional change?

Btw man the French were welcomed, teamed and traded with the natives...they were living together for a long time until the british conquest of Canada..it's the british and americans who did most of the genocides. The Huron population who were loyal allies of the French were exterminated by the Mohawks and the British

Post: #173

(08-12-2016 09:11 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  It's odd that two zero post newbies in this thread both became over the top upset in similar ways. I wonder if it was a banned member.

Edit- Merenguero beat me to the thought.

It's obvious there were certain things OP really liked about living in Spain.

Had he been more comprehensive in his original post about:
A) what he liked
B) why he stayed so long (I get it now after reading multiple response posts...)
C) what he didn't like
D) why he liked and disliked certain things,

this thread would be less tumultuous. More specific thoughts about the pros/cons of living in Spain would've done the trick in that opening post IMO.

Post: #174

I understand the OP's point and attitude, wish he was around now to reply and I hope he comes back. There is a lack of entrepreneurial and social dynamism in Europe in general. Spain is an old person's country, many times I noticed I was the youngest person on the bus/in the room. And I'm 59. When I was living in Europe at age 21, I felt the culture was stagnant and trite.

It seems like he has a good thing going in Spain, however. A business, employing workers. He might find it hard to replicate in the USA, not because of any regulatory burdens, but just because the market doesn't break his way.

Looking forward for the OP, what about having a family, children? Spain would be excellent for that. It is very family oriented. I always liked seeing the three-generational families out together on Sunday afternoons. There aren't large groups of sullen, impolite or dangerous teenagers around, maybe in Madrid and Barcelona but not where I was. Kids wear their "colegio" uniforms, are well behaved on the bus.

I think if OP goes back to a big city in the USA he will have trouble adjusting to the atmosphere of menace that you get in a US city. In a small town it might be better, but lack of market opportunity of course.

I see how OP said there was little civil society. Again, it is a country for older people. There are enough pena recreativas, aulas, seminars, running clubs, gym classes, church organizations, charity groups like serving food to the homeless, and of course the "local," the bar where you can become a regular pretty easily. But old guys like me!

Post: #175

(08-12-2016 06:51 PM)Heart Break Kid Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 06:26 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(08-12-2016 03:13 PM)Baldrich Wrote:  Sure, Catalunya and Southern France have very good cuisines - did I ever DENY that? I said I DON'T LIVE TO EAT. Many other sources point to Chinese and Indian food as equally good if not better.

"Chinese and Indian food equally good if not better", compared with French food? Seriously? We have in France hundreds of different kinds of sauces, wines and cheeses, hundreds of original, specific, tasty and subtle meals (from fondues or coquilles saint-jacques to parmentier , truffes or andouillettes, etc etc etc, take your pick)... Can any other country's foods compete, in sheer terms of diversity and excellence?

That's a really Eurocentric view though, believe it or not, in most places of the world, European food is stereotyped to be rather bland and spiceless.

I have no opinion on French food though, haven't had enough of it to say. But I don't really get how European food is inherently superior to Asian food, I mean most people literally prefer Asian food to European food....

Going Strong is right of course.

No other country in the world can compete with France for diversity of regional cuisines and ingredients excellence. Nord Pas-de-Calais, Burgundy, Alsace, Loire Valley, Lyon-Rhône-Alpes, Poitou-Charentes(Cognac), Quercy, Périgord, Basque country, Bordeaux, Normandy, Picardy, Aveyron, Champagne, Provence, Corsica, Lorraine, ect ect ect (not even talking about our oversea departments (Cayenne, Guadeloupe and Martinique, Réunion, ect) ......pick just one region and I can find you dozens of succulent (and specific) regional specialities. Oh and you can add to those specialities about 500 different types of cheese, and countless types of wines of course (about twenty wine regions - incl Bordeaux and Burgundy, the most prestigious wines in the world- each regions with dozens of "terroirs").

Bon appetit. Don't forget to finish your meal with a good Cognac or Armagnac.

Edit: There is a reason why the whole world use the interjection "Bon Appetit" .....simply because France has always been (and still is) the country of culinary pleasures.