Post: #76

Regardless of what people think, Obama went to highschool in Honolulu. He knows exactly what that meant.

Putang Ina means "your mothers a bitch" but you say it when you want to fight. Bakla Ka probably flew out of his mouth shortly before or after. That's also fighting words. It means "you gay shit" but when its fighting time.

This Duerte guy is gonna fuck up really bad. You can't talk like that to the president that gives your country major aid. The south of PI would totally be MILF territory if it werent for the US.

That was stupid.

Aloha!

Post: #77

Keep in mind the asia pivot.

U.S. foreign policy hinges on not alienating any of its traditional allies and newly formed allies in SEA.

To react hastily to insults from traditional allies would play into China's hands.

This is why Duterte can pretty shit all over the U.S. administration at will. It's great watching him shit on Obama's appointees (ambassador to P.I.) and Obama himself though. The U.S. administration pretty much has to keep financing anti trafficking policy in asia because of terrorism and other links to the drug trade.

Duterte is *not* a moron. He's actually a very calculating guy.

You don't get to that level of power in the Philippines without being machiavellian as hell. Politics in the Philippines is a life or death matter and political rivals will wipe you out if they catch you slipping.

He wouldn't be saying the things he does without knowing what's at stake and what he can get away with. It plays into his populist image too.

By showing up the pre-eminent power like that he grows his own legend with the people and cements his authority. Plus he gains a grudging respect from rival SEA nations.

Post: #78

(09-05-2016 10:01 PM)Kona Wrote:  Regardless of what people think, Obama went to highschool in Honolulu. He knows exactly what that meant.

Putang Ina means "your mothers a bitch" but you say it when you want to fight. Bakla Ka probably flew out of his mouth shortly before or after. That's also fighting words. It means "you gay shit" but when its fighting time.

This Duerte guy is gonna fuck up really bad. You can't talk like that to the president that gives your country major aid. The south of PI would totally be MILF territory if it werent for the US.

That was stupid.

Aloha!

Nah, not really. It was US involvement that got 44 soldiers killed by the MILF in 2015 by waltzing into their territory unannounced and starting a firefight (during peace time) over a terror suspect that only American interests cared about.

MILF is violent but they ultimately only want autonomy under the Philippine government, which plays right into what Duterte wants -- federalism.

They are not ISIS, trying to turn all of the Mindanao into an Islamic caliphate.

Abu Sayyaf is much less reasonable, but also much smaller. The only thing that keeps them around is a combined of the crushing poverty in the Muslim areas that allows them to freely recruit from the local populace and the previous governments' unwillingness to properly handle the the group.

It's actually the Philippines and American governments' constant instigation of the situation because of the rich natural resources in the region that's kept the violence going for so long.

The government has repeatedly violated peace agreements with the rebel groups time and time again.

Like I said, MILF is definitely dangerous and I believe Islam is a dangerous ideology as a whole, but that region was inhabited by Muslims for hundreds of years before Spain and Catholics every set foot in the country, and even before the United States or Republic of the Philippines even existed.

MNLF was created as a direct response to the Marcos regime's dictatorship and massacre of Moros, and MILF broke from that group because they realized that the MNLF's eagerness for peace was never going to get them what they wanted -- and it still hasn't, over 30 years later.

Keep in mind that just earlier this year the police open fired on hundreds of unarmed Catholic farmers in Mindanao because they were blocking the streets in the hopes that the government would give them some rice, as promised, so they wouldn't starve to death during a drought.

The non-Muslim Lumads of Mindanao also accuse the government of the same thing the Muslim groups do.

Post: #79

Also, regarding these specific comments, the bigger reason Duterte has been at odds with the US recently is that they want to play the fence and not outright commit to their allies in the region.

Duterte (and other leaders in the region) simply want an answer to the question, "Are you committed to protecting us from China?"

As El Chinito Loco pointed out, Duterte is actually extremely calculated when it comes to geopolitics. He knows that the current administration would just as easily use and discard the Philippines on a whim as it suits their interests.

This is one of the reasons I've compared him to Trump. They want to make a deal first and foremost, but they're not going to sit back while you fuck them over.

And like Trump, the media tries to use this to portray them as loose cannons. But Trump doesn't call out NATO and Duterte doesn't call out the UN because they're maniacs. They do it because it serves a purpose.

Duterte knows that Obama knows that he could just as easily pivot towards China and Russia and leave the US in the cold, which is why he's able to play both sides against each other to get the deal that's best for his country.

If it seems like I to talk about Duterte a lot, it's because the guy is fucking brilliant. Like many of the other popular political figures on the forum, like a Trump or Putin, he operates at a level that's so far beyond most modern politicians that it's staggering.

Post: #80

I had hopes for Duterte, but now I wonder. If he's so brilliant, why is he apologizing now?

He goes out of his way to insult the USA, but he kisses China's ass, begging meekly for fishing rights in what should be the Philippines Exclusive Economic Zone. I predict he will sell out to China on the islands in return for some fishing rights. USA does not care as much as you think they do. USA will deal with Japan and Vietnam as traditional Chinese opponents if Duterte spreads his legs for China.

He is also good at killing little street guys, but I have seen nothing interfering with the entrenched monopolies and oligarchies (example: PLDT and Globe buy out of San Miguel's telcom venture for a song to preserve their shitty duopoly). He is also giving a pass to notoriously corrupt pols like GMA.

Post: #81

(09-06-2016 02:10 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  I had hopes for Duterte, but now I wonder. If he's so brilliant, why is he apologizing now?

He goes out of his way to insult the USA, but he kisses China's ass, begging meekly for fishing rights in what should be the Philippines Exclusive Economic Zone. I predict he will sell out to China on the islands in return for some fishing rights. USA does not care as much as you think they do. USA will deal with Japan and Vietnam as traditional Chinese opponents if Duterte spreads his legs for China.

He is also good at killing little street guys, but I have seen nothing interfering with the entrenched monopolies and oligarchies (example: PLDT and Globe buy out of San Miguel's telcom venture for a song to preserve their shitty duopoly). He is also giving a pass to notoriously corrupt pols like GMA.

He's been in office for two months...

His campaign promise was that drugs and criminality would be his first order of business, and that's exactly what he's doing, which is drawing him extreme criticism domestically and abroad.

And it hasn't been limited to "little street guys" -- he's gone after major drug lords, as well as politicians and police who harbor them.

He's already put in the work to implement countrywide 911 emergency service and clean up the prisons.

He's simultaneously dealing with Abu Sayyaf and China.

And your complaint is that he hasn't already broken up decades old, entrenched oligarchies?

Months ago people were telling me there was no chance he'd even be elected, now he's a disappointment because he didn't turn around the entire country two months into a 6-year term.

I said he was brilliant, not a deity.

Post: #82

(09-06-2016 02:39 AM)Enigma Wrote:  He's already put in the work to implement countrywide 911 emergency service and clean up the prisons.

He's also been cleaning up the most corrupt departments in the Philippines like LTO, DPWH, and I believe customs. According to one of my girls that's why they are fixing all the escalators at the MRTs now. I don't know if that last part is true though, heh.

I believe the root cause of most of the problems in the Philippines is how land is divided and agriculture. It's not privatized efficiently. The common people of the Philippines are usually cheated out of their rights to land. Land ownership in the P.I. by regular citizens is far lower than in Thailand.

You have these vast land holding family dynasties in the Philippines who monopolize it and essentially have serfs who work it for almost nothing. They grow and export shit crops because there's no incentive to farm it efficiently. They grow fat off of government largesse and rent seeking.

The previous administration(s) pushed through reform programs that are ineffectual and corrupt.

A lot of development comes from agricultural reform first and then a proper central authority in the government that directs the cash flow into education, infrastructure, industry, etc.. This is how all the developed asian nations got past the developing stage.

Post: #83

When I see him calling Xi Jinping a gay son of a whore then he will have some cred. He spouts a lot of communist rhetoric, sounds like Hugo Chavez a lot of the time. He could be a Chinese tool.

He might learn the lesson of Noriega, Saddam, and Qaddaffi too late. CNN / BBC already in the process of making him the next demon.

Post: #84

(09-06-2016 03:00 AM)Sp5 Wrote:  When I see him calling Xi Jinping a gay son of a whore then he will have some cred. He spouts a lot of communist rhetoric, sounds like Hugo Chavez a lot of the time. He could be a Chinese tool.

He might learn the lesson of Noriega, Saddam, and Qaddaffi too late. CNN / BBC already in the process of making him the next demon.

The fact that he's *not* calling Xi Jinping a gay son of a whore shows that he's more of a political realist and not insane.

The Philippines has already won that fight on the international stage. They have the moral authority based on that tribunal ruling on the islands. They don't need to escalate that anymore than it needs to. Pushing China too far might actually result in a real war which the Philippines simply can't win on its own. There's no benefit in doing that.

On the other hand forcing the U.S. administration to put up or shut up is something that would benefit the P.I. directly at this moment.

There is also no downside to calling Obama a son of a whore for questioning Duterte's policies instead of actually providing concrete support on issues that matter. Obama is on his way out anyways and it strengthens Duterte's position.

Making fun of some limp wristed pretentious ambassador is almost a non issue too.

The fact of the matter is that 8 years of an Obama administration and Hillary as secretary of state has put the U.S. in a tough spot. The U.S. has to provide concessions to keep allies happy and it also has to keep China at bay. This is not so easy when there is a lack of respect for American foreign policy (based on Hillary's inept diplomacy) as well as "allies" who are playing both sides all the time like India and Vietnam.

Post: #85

Can you point out examples of communist rhetoric? His economic policies are pro-business, pro-middle class, and pro-foreign investment.

His tax plan also includes cuts to income and corporate tax.

I've seen people claim he's a communist sympathizer because he doesn't want to go to war with the NPA, but I've never seen any evidence of it within his economic proposals.

Also, just to clear this up -- "bakla" in Bisaya does not necessarily mean "homosexual".

It's often used much like Americans use the word gay and faggot. He was basically saying the ambassador was being a fag, not that he literally has sex with men and his mother is literally a whore.

He always talks like that, that's why he pointed out that he didn't mean the comment about Obama personally.

I play basketball all the time with Davaoenos and they constantly curse at each other and call each other idiots. They're laughing the whole time.

Post: #86

He said he was a "socialist" and had a lot of accommodation for the communist NPA. Maybe I overstated it.

Post: #87

Does more violence and more government regulation really fix the problems? How long will the peace last? A more peaceful solution would be to let people take whatever drug they want in a designated area, make them cheap or free, kill the profiteering from drugs and what do you know, no gang fundings and less violence but like others have stated a lot of people official and not make a lot of money from drug sales.

Post: #88

(09-06-2016 07:53 AM)zombiejimmorrison Wrote:  Does more violence and more government regulation really fix the problems? How long will the peace last? A more peaceful solution would be to let people take whatever drug they want in a designated area, make them cheap or free, kill the profiteering from drugs and what do you know, no gang fundings and less violence but like others have stated a lot of people official and not make a lot of money from drug sales.

If I had to guess, the people of the PI don't wont the government assisting in people destroying their lives and the people around them. It's not just the user who suffers. It's their family and friends as well. I'd also wager they want to completely stamp out drugs, sellers, and users. Make it to where people are scared shitless to even mention a drug. That will take time and a lot of bloodshed. Which from the looks of it, the PI people are fine with. The US people could never accept of stomach a real war on drugs. Casualties are expected.........

Post: #89

I think the point to be considered on whether Duterte is fit to be president or not comes down to looking at it from an international point of view, or from a national view. In the Anglosphere, small matters such as crime and corruption are dealt with the police and obviously there is no need to get the President involved as it is swiftly and cleanly dealt with (usually). But in a country like the Philippines, you need a national movement to destroy crime, corruption etc once and for all. I truly believe Duterte is the man to do this, and to get the safety standards and 'fairness' standards up.

However currently I don't think that Duterte has the tact or nous to be involved in complicated international relations- but that isn't what's needed in the Philippines. I believe it is far more important that they sort out the domestic situation, and destroy the insurgencies and crime gangs.

This quote says it all for me, what a man:

Post: #90

Europe and America need a no nonsense hard man like him.

Post: #91

Many Filipinos that actually listened to what Duterte said are telling me he did not actually call Obama a son of a bitch, nor was the comment even directed at Obama.

Keep in mind that -- much like the American media -- the Filipino mainstream media is controlled by the same corrupt establishment that Duterte ran against and is trying to purge.

Quote:As a native speaker of both English and Tagalog, and as somebody who has access to the whole speech, I went on and watched the full video.

Lo and behold, my suspicions were true, the line that was cut from the video above, wherein the President said “putangina” was not even directed to President Obama, it was directed to the reporter who, according to the President, “just threw questions and statements.”

I repeat. The “son of a whore” statement of the President was not directed at President Obama at all.

Let me give you a rundown:

Earlier this September 5, Duterte gave a 5-minute speech informing the country that he is about to go to Laos for the ASEAN summit. I transcribed the whole speech and included the video below this article. This is for the people to know the whole story.

After giving his speech, he asked the audience for questions and clarifications, saying:

“Any questions? I will give you a few.. for clarification for the statement only. Do not come more on to politics. It’s too far away.”

Despite his warning of not going too far, one reporter asked him:

“Sir, there have been concerns on extrajudicial killings, sir. And you will meet leaders, any line of communication that we have prepared to address this issue in front of other foreign leaders?”

To which Duterte replied:

“To whom shall I address myself to? Who will be asking the question? May I know?”

Somebody from the audience said “Like Obama, Sir.” And that started it all. Here is his answer:

“You know, the Philippines is not a vassal state. We have long ceased to be a colony of the United States. Alam mo marame dyan mga kolumnista (You know there are a lot of columnists) who look up on Obama and the United States as if we are the lapdogs of this coutry.”

In this statement, Duterte was clearly addressing his audience, Obama’s name was only mentioned as an example because somebody in the audience mentioned Obama. I am not a Duterte-fan, but anybody listening to that line, who understands the language will know that he is not degrading Obama, he is merely lifting his people up. He ended it by saying:

“I do not respond to anybody but the people of the Republic of the Philippines”

Now, this is the part that gets dirty. In trying to lift his people, he was subconsciously saying something that can be used against him. Again, from our point of view, his point is that the Philippines should never bow down to any country, there is nothing against President Obama, his name was just dragged.

“Wala akong pakelam sakanya (I don’t care about him). Who is he? I am not beholden to anybody.”

After this, he went on and addressed the columnists.

“May mga kolumnista dyan na (There are columnists out there that write headlines such as) ‘Wait until he meets..’ Who is he? I am a President of a sovereign state and we have long ceased to be a colony. I do not have any master except the Filipino people.”

The next line is addressed to the reporter who asked the question, not to Obama as the media is claiming:

“You must be respectful. Do not just throw away questions and statements. Putangina (son of a bitch) I will curse you in that forum.”

As a clarification, Duterte is referring to reporters who are not respectful and are throwing questions at him that are not on topic.

LAST NOTE:

Here’s a little Filipino crash course.

Puta = Whore/Bitch

Ina = Mom

Putangina = Son of a Bitch / Son of a Whore

Mo = You

“Putangina” is an expression like, say, “Shit,” or “Crap” are. When “Putangina is followed by “Mo,” that is what makes it become offensive. That is when it becomes “You are a son of a bitch.”

http://www.liberalamerica.org/2016/09/05...ally-said/

CNN Philippines even seems to have updated their translations after being called out:

Quote:Duterte also cautioned anyone in the Asean summit from bluntly asking him about the issue on alleged extrajudicial killings in the Philippines.

"You must be respectful. You must not just throw away questions. P*t*ng i*a, mumurahin kita dyan. [Son of a bitch, I'll curse you infront of everybody.] Tell that to everybody," Duterte said.

http://cnnphilippines.com/news/2016/09/0...tates.html

Duterte also met with Shinzo Abe yesterday:

Quote:At his first meeting with Duterte since the president took office in June, Abe offered congratulations on his election, adding that the Philippine leader “is quite a famous figure also in Japan, and I am very excited to see you in person.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/09...r-duterte/

Post: #92

Whatever the actual translation is, the sentiment is the same. Duterte is promoting an anti-US feeling amongst the people.

This morning I was reading the paper and the opinion article was bashing the US and praising Duterte's strength and seemed to be blaming much of the problems in the Philippines on the US. Even to go so far as to imply they don't need an alliance anymore.

I also saw an article that talked about the illegality of websites that try to match foriegners with Pinay's for marriage. I guess it was outlawed in 1990 but for it to be making the papers 25 years later next to the anti-US opinion article tells me the zeitgeist in this country is moving towards an anti-US/anti-foreigner/Pinoy Pride sentiment.

This morning I saw this facebook re-post on a girlfriends page. Facebook is an important way of measuring the pulse of people's sentiment.

Quote:OBAMA vs. DUTERTE (What happens in Laos, stays in Laos)

Obama: Mr. Mayor President Rody The Punisher Duterte, you have lots of names, but may I call you Digong-gong?
Duterte: Yes, and I shall call you Saddam Hussein
*audience clapped*
O: You're not funny, you're just a "colorful guy"
D: Okay... and who are you?
*audience clapped*
O: I'm the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, and I'm here to tell you that you have to answer for all the alleged human rights violations via extra-judicial killings. Your country's Commission on Human Rights has cried justice for those criminals being killed without due process. Your war against illegal drugs is wrong.
D: Well, Mr. Hussein, I also have a war against Abu Sayyaf. My armed forces have killed Abu Sayyaf members who are also humans. Yet, the Commission on Human Rights is very silent about the human rights of these Abu Sayyaf humans! Do you understand me, Hussein?
*audience clapped*

*Obama tried to interrupt Duterte*
D: I'm not done, Mr. Hussein. Before I will answer your questions, you also need to answer my questions. Explain the following atrocities done by the U.S. namely:
- The killing of 600+ men, women and children in Bud Dajo, island of Jolo.
- Police brutalities especially against blacks;
- Invasion of privacy towards your citizens via wire-tapping and illegal surveillance;
- Torture of prisoners in Guantanamo;

*Obama tried to interrupt Duterte*
O: Blame George Bush for all of that... and Trump too!
D: Haha, you mean Trump - that dumb ass who is often compared to me?
*audience clapped*

D: I'm not done, Mr. Hussein.
- Collateral damage by your cruise missiles and smart bombs in your own War against Terror;
- Your support for authoritarian regimes who commit all sorts of abuses, including genocide.
- You call for free trade but there's heavy protectionism, right?
- And why aren’t you ratifying the Convention on the Rights of the Child, and The Kyoto Protocol?

The list goes on, Mr. Hussein Obama.

*Mr. Obama then wakes up from a bad dream*
*Panting heavily and gasping for air, he calls his Department of State and instructs them to cancel his meeting with Duterte*

What we learned:
1. As a strategy, Duterte did a preemptive strike to get his point across and to force Obama to cancel the meeting.
2. Obama understood Duterte's strategy and knew that he will be figuratively slapped during the meeting that's why he cancelled in advance.
3. Duterte is a strong and decisive leader.

What we will learn in the future:
1. That the Philippines will remain an ally to the U.S.
2. That the U.S. will maintain all their interests in the Philippines, whatever interests they may have.
3. That based on history, the U.S. is a "captive" ally, because it is "captive" to its interests in the Philippines.
4. That deploying a strategic U.S. Military Base in the Philippines will always be an "unfinished business" of the U.S.
5. That the strong relationship between the Philippines and the U.S. cannot be broken just because one of its leaders is a "colorful guy".
6. That the Filipinos, after a hundred years, will still call an American guy "Hey Joe"!
7. That the Filipinos, after a thousand years, will still have Colonial Mentality.

I suppose we can rationalize away all of the above as no big deal, doesn't mean anything, etc. but I know what I see and this type of nationalism doesn't appear to be a positive for foreigner's and American's in particular. I feel it on the street here in Makati and with the people I interact with. Maybe it's a small difference from two years ago but that's how it starts.

I'm not posting this to say who's in the right or the wrong. Just what I'm seeing and where I think it's going.

Post: #93

There is some crazy stuff on Filipinos' Facebook accounts. I saw a video where someone edited it to have Trump call all Filipinos terrorist. Something like "Filipinos come here (edit) they are all terrorist coming here."

Speaking of Trump and the Philippines... there is a rumor among call center workers that if Trump becomes president he will shut down all the call centers in the Philippines. I'm not sure who started it, the bias Filipino media, call center companies, or just stupidity among call center workers. My bet is on the Filipino media, they suck Hillary's cock so much. They failed in trying to stop Duterte and they needed a new target. They really don't have the power they once had.

Post: #94

(09-06-2016 10:58 PM)Onto Wrote:  I suppose we can rationalize away all of the above as no big deal, doesn't mean anything, etc. but I know what I see and this type of nationalism doesn't appear to be a positive for foreigner's and American's in particular. I feel it on the street here in Makati and with the people I interact with. Maybe it's a small difference from two years ago but that's how it starts.

I'm not posting this to say who's in the right or the wrong. Just what I'm seeing and where I think it's going.

I haven't noticed any dramatic differences when it comes to nativist sentiment. Then again filipinos tend to be more frank when sharing their opinions with me since i'm asian.

The most hardcore nativists in SEA are still Thais though. Filipinos are lightweights with the pinoy pride stuff compared with the outright indoctrination most Thais have. To the Thai's credit this mentality has managed to insulate their culture somewhat despite being a major tourist destination.

I'm all for growing nationalism though. I don't necessarily believe this is negative for all foreigners as long as you conduct yourself in a respectful manner and make the right social connections then it's the same.

I believe globalism and multiculturalism has led Europe and the U.S. down some dark paths.

EE and most of Asia are the last holdouts in this world order pushed by the elites.

Post: #95

Indonesia drug chief calls for Philippine-style crackdown

Quote:Indonesia's anti-narcotics chief has called for the country to imitate the brutal war on drugs launched by Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte.

Budi Waseso praised Mr Duterte and said drug dealers' lives were "meaningless".

Hundreds of alleged dealers have been killed in the Philippines since Mr Duterte allowed to police to shoot them on sight.

Mr Duterte, nicknamed "The Punisher", has been condemned by the United Nations for his approach against crime.

President Joko Widodo is hosting Mr Duterte in Jakarta later this week, where discussions on how to tackle the drugs trade will be high on the agenda.

Indonesia already has some of the toughest drug laws in the world and ended a four-year moratorium on executions in 2013.

Speaking at a press conference held by Indonesia's anti-narcotics agency (BNN), Mr Waseso said the country would bolster its arsenal of weapons, officers, and technology devoted to combating the drugs trade.

"The life of a dealer is meaningless because [he] carries out mass murder," he said.

When asked if Indonesia would be as aggressive as the Philippines, Mr Waseso said: "Yes I believe so."

A spokesman for the BNN later struck a different tone, saying Indonesia would not be as aggressive.

"Our punishments have to be in accordance with our law and with national and international standards," said Slamet Pribadi.

About 2,400 people have been killed since Mr Duterte declared his war on drugs, Reuters news agency reports - 900 in official police operations and the rest in "deaths under investigation", a term human rights activists say is a euphemism for vigilante and extrajudicial killings.

When US President Barack Obama said earlier this week he would raise the issue with Mr Duterte, his Philippine counterpart responded by threatening to call him a "son of a whore".

Mr Obama subsequently cancelled a scheduled meeting between the two, and Mr Duterte expressed regret for his comment.

Indonesia executed four people, including foreign nationals, in July on charges of drug smuggling, despite condemnation from the UN.

In April last year President Joko Widodo drew the ire of the Australian government with a previous execution of 14, including two Australians.

Mr Waseso drew criticism and mockery in November when he proposed building a prison guarded by crocodiles.

"You can't bribe crocodiles. You can't convince them to let inmates escape," he said at the time.

Post: #96

(09-07-2016 09:40 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(09-06-2016 10:58 PM)Onto Wrote:  I suppose we can rationalize away all of the above as no big deal, doesn't mean anything, etc. but I know what I see and this type of nationalism doesn't appear to be a positive for foreigner's and American's in particular. I feel it on the street here in Makati and with the people I interact with. Maybe it's a small difference from two years ago but that's how it starts.

I'm not posting this to say who's in the right or the wrong. Just what I'm seeing and where I think it's going.

I haven't noticed any dramatic differences when it comes to nativist sentiment. Then again filipinos tend to be more frank when sharing their opinions with me since i'm asian.

The most hardcore nativists in SEA are still Thais though. Filipinos are lightweights with the pinoy pride stuff compared with the outright indoctrination most Thais have. To the Thai's credit this mentality has managed to insulate their culture somewhat despite being a major tourist destination.

I'm all for growing nationalism though. I don't necessarily believe this is negative for all foreigners as long as you conduct yourself in a respectful manner and make the right social connections then it's the same.

I believe globalism and multiculturalism has led Europe and the U.S. down some dark paths.

EE and most of Asia are the last holdouts in this world order pushed by the elites.

The Thais are anomalies and much of their pride and nativism was bequeathed to them by a fortuitous history. It is the only state in Southeast Asia never to be colonised. It is amazing that it held out even as the key areas of China (mostly by the British) were colonised and the Japanese swung towards American modes of modernisation from the late 19th century. Chinese Thai also seem to be the least Sino-like in the region, with the exception of Chinese Singaporeans. Chinese Malaysians are definitely more like the mainland Chinese than the Chinese Thai are.

As for the Philippines, many people there are all too aware of their mixed origins, making it harder for a robust nationalism to take hold (maybe Duterte will change this). I am astounded by how many fair-skinned middle-class or moderately affluent Filipinos I know with sizeable European ancestry. Duterte himself, although he's darker than many mixed Filipinos, has acknowledged European, Arabic and Chinese ancestors and I remember reading him talking about how half his grandchildren are Christian and the other half Muslim.

Post: #97

I do not mind if Duterte is a nationalist, but his "nationalism" only points one way. It is not the USA taking Philippine territory and kicking Filipino fishermen out of their own ocean Exclusive Economic Zone. But he kisses Chinese ass. I wonder if he is owned by the Chinese in some way. The Chinese would be clever enough to recruit a major politician as an agent.

Post: #98

(09-10-2016 10:53 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  I do not mind if Duterte is a nationalist, but his "nationalism" only points one way. It is not the USA taking Philippine territory and kicking Filipino fishermen out of their own ocean Exclusive Economic Zone. But he kisses Chinese ass. I wonder if he is owned by the Chinese in some way. The Chinese would be clever enough to recruit a major politician as an agent.

The Chinese would be clever enough to recruit a major politician as an agent: Well, after all it's a strategy that the USA itself has employed, again and again, for decades. How many European heads-of-State are in Obama's pocket, and even directly on CIA payroll? I remember the wikileaks papers revealing just how many European politicians are Obama's (paid) agents-of-influence... Seems fair that China would try the same policy, at some point, somewhere.

Post: #99

(09-10-2016 10:53 PM)Sp5 Wrote:  I do not mind if Duterte is a nationalist, but his "nationalism" only points one way. It is not the USA taking Philippine territory and kicking Filipino fishermen out of their own ocean Exclusive Economic Zone. But he kisses Chinese ass. I wonder if he is owned by the Chinese in some way. The Chinese would be clever enough to recruit a major politician as an agent.

I understand your suspicion but I don't think it's correct.

It's the perogative and in the best interests of smaller SEA nations to play the world powers according to their best interests.

Flipping double birds to China and agitating for war would NOT be in the Philippines best interest especially without concrete U.S. support.

That's why I said Duterte is a political realist. He's a populist, a nationalist, and a next level shitlord but I really don't believe he's a puppet at all.

Truly kissing China's ass would be to retract tribunal inquiry and just give it up in exchange for access to China's seemingly unlimited credit line. It would be as simple as a statement issuance and going from there.

That's clearly not what has happened.


Duterte is walking a fine line and he's making progress in cleaning up bad spots in the Philippines. There's really no evidence to associate him with being a Chinese shill.

Post: #100

If he's no fan of the US and wants to be independent he can give back the 60+ million dollars we've given him over the past few months in cash, military planes and other gear.

Hmmmm, where have I heard this "I'm independent but everyone pays my way" mentality before?