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Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
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Captain Gh Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
(06-10-2016 05:34 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  
Quote:Brock Turner gets his sentence reduced for good behavior

By Lyz Lenz
Jun 9, 2016, 10:32am CT | Last updated Jun 9, 2016, 10:35am CT

In a rape case that just won't end, there's a new twist. Brock Turner, the former Stanford student who received a jail sentence of six months after raping an unconscious woman, has now received time off for good behavior, according to the Daily Mail.


Photo via Santa Clara County Sheriff's Office

The paper reports that Turner will only serve four months of his six-month sentence; he is due to be released on September 2. The sentence was reduced because of time served and because the court believes that Turner is "unlikely to misbehave behind bars."

The Daily Mail also got probation documents that revealed that Turner continued to lie about the rape to his probation officer even after he was convicted. According to the documents, the Santa Clara district attorney had to intervene and warned Turner to tell the truth.


In other Turner news, he is also being held in a private cell at the Elmwood jail in Milpitas, California. Though the majority of Elmwood's inmates have to bunk up, officials state that Turner's situation has to do with the "nature of his crime."

Damn you might have something over there! Reduced sentence right away + being incarcerated in private when being in for a "skin beef"
06-10-2016 08:05 PM
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renotime Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Turner now has a wiki page. Poor bastard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Turner

You want to know the only thing you can assume about a broken down old man? It's that he's a survivor.
06-10-2016 10:48 PM
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GlobalMan Offline
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Post: #228
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Now people are refusing to serve on juries in cases where Judge Persky is presiding.

SJWs are deserting their most basic civic duty because of an ignorant and vile hate.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016...-to-serve/
Quote:At least 10 prospective jurors who were selected to serve on a case Judge Aaron Persky is handling have refused to serve on the panel, citing their anger over his decision to give Brock Turner, 20, just six months in county prison as opposed to the six years that were originally recommended by prosecutors.

“I can’t be here, I’m so upset,” one prospective juror reportedly said, according to the San Jose Mercury News. “I can’t believe what you did,” another prospective juror reportedly said.


There's no end to the madness, it is quite scary the level of deep delusion and hatred that has taken hold of so many people in this country. As Lizard said, it's evil, there's no two ways about it.

Americans are dreamers too
06-11-2016 12:15 AM
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Days of Broken Arrows Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
(06-11-2016 12:15 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Now people are refusing to serve on juries in cases where Judge Persky is presiding.

SJWs are deserting their most basic civic duty because of an ignorant and vile hate.

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2016...-to-serve/
Quote:At least 10 prospective jurors who were selected to serve on a case Judge Aaron Persky is handling have refused to serve on the panel, citing their anger over his decision to give Brock Turner, 20, just six months in county prison as opposed to the six years that were originally recommended by prosecutors.

“I can’t be here, I’m so upset,” one prospective juror reportedly said, according to the San Jose Mercury News. “I can’t believe what you did,” another prospective juror reportedly said.

There's no end to the madness, it is quite scary the level of deep delusion and hatred that has taken hold of so many people in this country. As Lizard said, it's evil, there's no two ways about it.

You're right there's no end. Here are some updates:

The latest CNN headline: "USA Swimming bans Brock Turner for life." So, the guy no longer has a future as a swimmer.

Stanford University has published
the letter Turner's father read in court in defense of his son. It contains the "twenty minutes of action" line -- the words that helped ignite the controversy.

Allow me to interject some much-needed editorial opinion on this specific subject:

I had assumed that comment was something the father said offhandedly to the press. The fact that it was read it court and the kid's lawyer signed off on that being read (!!!) shows, I think, the lawyer was a big part of the problem.

One of my pet topics on this forum is the way we use words, and how certain words evoke emotions that go beyond the mere word itself (i.e. words like "splayed" and "spread" have sexual connotations, even if they're not used in a sentence about sex). The father used the word "action" to describe his son's behavior.

Any idiot should know what that word connotes. Sounds like something out of the sleazy 1970s culture. In fact, several '70s hit songs used that word prominently, such as Sweet's "Action," T. Rex's "Solid Gold Easy Action," and Alicia Bridges' "I Love the Nightlife."

The hedonistic '70s is not the era you want to conjure up visually when saying you're son should be judged less harshly for a sex-related act. This was a mistake beyond comprehension. What lawyer wouldn't see that?

No one was there to rewrite that statement as "one drunken episode should not determine a man's life?" That sounds like something Ben Franklin would have said. The word "episode" has completely different connotations. It even sounds more harmless when you say it -- sounds medical rather than sexual.

OK, I'm off my soap box. One more thing. Time Magazine has an article on why Turner should not be called a rapist because he's instead, guilty of "sexual assault."
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 01:21 AM by Days of Broken Arrows.)
06-11-2016 01:21 AM
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Post: #230
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
(06-10-2016 02:00 PM)kaotic Wrote:  I don't think this was mentioned before:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...lieve.html

Quote:took photograph of his victim's breasts during attack - and shared it with swim team friends who deleted it after his arrest', police believe

What's most interesting about this article is here;

Blake Bolton, a witness who was visiting Stanford on the weekend of the sex attack, later told police that he had seen a man standing over the victim with a phone.
In his statement to cops, Bolton said 'the male subject was standing over her with a cell phone. The cell phone had a bright light pointed in the direction of the female, using either a flashlight app in his phone or its built-in app.
'He approached the subject and asked if everything was okay. The male subject did not say anything to Bolton. 'He told the male subject to roll her over onto her side to breathe. The male subject did not do this. Bolton then got on his knees and checked her pulse.
'When he got back up, the male subject was gone.'



This seems to match up with Turner's own statement in the police report but was Bolton simply witnessing one of the Swedes checking on the female?


Here's a link to the police reports if you haven't seen them;
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documen...turner.pdf
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 01:49 AM by achromaticmike.)
06-11-2016 01:33 AM
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Post: #231
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
While I can see where Lizard of Oz is coming from -- I can also see the case being made that the female wasn't capable of consent around the point she began slurring words into her boyfriend's voicemail. It would be interesting if that audio was actually available because for me it's a piece of evidence I'd like to hear and could easily sway my opinion as to whether or not there's a reasonable doubt that it was sexual assault or not. If she sounds normal twenty minutes earlier -- I would totally believe there's a reasonable doubt as to whether the "assault" happened before or after she was able to give consent. If she sounded completely smashed then I'd probably lean towards guilty and ironically -- be supportive of the moderate 6-month sentence the judge handed down based on all the extenuating circumstances.

I've been in the position where a girl that was all over me at the club took a turn for the worse in the time we went from the club back to her apartment via taxi. When we got to her apartment and started fooling around I made the conscious decision that she was too sloppy for us to continue so I tucked her in and left the apartment -- I was rewarded by her blowing up my Facebook and phone to meetup again but had already left the country. ...but what if I had been more drunk and decided to go ahead with it and the next day she had a boyfriend that walked in on us or something? Would a .17 like Turner have been enough for my state of mind to change? I have no idea.

Ironically, this exact night the stars aligned and I ended up meeting up with two Canadian girls I had met the night before and blacking out before my first three-way. Did they "sexually assault" me? Under this liberal standard - probably.

It's sad that a"fingerbang" has become the gold-standard proving "rape culture" on campus.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 02:07 AM by achromaticmike.)
06-11-2016 02:04 AM
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Post: #232
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
To those in the New York area, this case has been covered this week on WFAN. Mike Francesa has criticized the student, his father and the Judge. Most callers have been White Knighting. I was surprised to not even hear one dissenting opinion from a caller.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 08:26 AM by Dantes.)
06-11-2016 07:55 AM
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Post: #233
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
One more thing, leaving a party with a strange man when you have a boyfriend should count strongly against any claim of rape.

What is still not being touched on is that the bitch cheated on her boyfriend with intent.

Girls who have boyfriends and cheat cry rape all the time.

It doesn't seem to matter much, we've almost reached peak femi-dictatorship. It's almost not worth bothering with, unless you directly take up the fight against the entire degenerate regressive left movement. It's going to blow, it's going to burn, there's no doubt, we're rapidly approaching East Germany levels of oppression and propaganda. Somethings got to give. My personal opinion, either check in to this fight with your heart and mind and risk something or get out to some non-Western country. The idea you will be able to keep on keeping on under the radar becomes increasingly unrealistic. Much of this story, such as focusing on sharing pics, just shows how everything young men do is being crimininalized.

Fight or flight, those are what I see as options now, nothing else.
06-11-2016 08:23 AM
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jasond Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Apparently, the definition of rape was changed recently, to include fingering a girl:

"Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object"
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr...crime/rape

If fingering a girl is now considered rape, do players need to update their notch count to include all instances where they fingered a girl, but didn't bang her?
06-11-2016 08:51 AM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
I wrote the below in a PM to another forum member the other day and it sums up my feelings about this case.

The Lizard of Oz Wrote:The certainty that this kid is guilty baffles me and shows what we're up against. She's walking with him to that dumpster -- to do what exactly? Is it so hard to believe that they started messing around while she was still fully conscious and able to consent?

And now he is supposed to be some monster, the "face of sexual assault", and she is a sacred victim, all because he stuck a few fingers in her pussy behind that dumpster -- which she left the party to go with him to -- when they were both drunk.

For this he needs to be a registered sex offender for life and that's considered "lenient".

Just unf'ingreal.

An even better summary is what Brock's father said -- a life permanently ruined for 20 minutes of action. It's supposed to be some unthinkably monstrous comment but all it is is simply correct.

The endless bullshit about it and the need to make any excuses for the evil hysteria of our enemies is very tiresome. Think straight!

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
06-11-2016 09:24 AM
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Post: #236
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
(06-11-2016 09:24 AM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  I wrote the below in a PM to another forum member the other day and it sums up my feelings about this case.

The Lizard of Oz Wrote:The certainty that this kid is guilty baffles me and shows what we're up against. She's walking with him to that dumpster -- to do what exactly? Is it so hard to believe that they started messing around while she was still fully conscious and able to consent?

And now he is supposed to be some monster, the "face of sexual assault", and she is a sacred victim, all because he stuck a few fingers in her pussy behind that dumpster -- which she left the party to go with him to -- when they were both drunk.

For this he needs to be a registered sex offender for life and that's considered "lenient".

Just unf'ingreal.

An even better summary is what Brock's father said -- a life permanently ruined for 20 minutes of action. It's supposed to be some unthinkably monstrous comment but all it is is simply correct.

The endless bullshit about it and the need to make any excuses for the evil hysteria of our enemies is very tiresome. Think straight!

She had a boyfriend and then voluntarily walked to a dumpster.

If she did not have a boyfriend, I'd be inclined to believe her more, but girls who cheat on boyfriends do in fact have sex in public more than people like to believe.
06-11-2016 09:27 AM
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Post: #237
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
"Oh no, I was drunk and an evil white male kissed me and touched me inappropriately."

Here's a radical idea, maybe you shouldn't get drunk at a frat party and flirt with horny college guys when you have a boyfriend, whore.

Next time, stay home and wash the dishes.

06-11-2016 12:53 PM
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The Lizard of Oz Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
The Daily Mail has published two letters to the judge on Brock's behalf from two of his high school girlfriends.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...judge.html

The kid sounds like a real "monster", for sure. Pretty much the very embodiment of evil.

[Image: 352782CA00000578-3636575-image-m-26_1465653373843.jpg]
[Image: 352782CE00000578-3636575-image-m-25_1465653361187.jpg]
[Image: 352782B800000578-3636575-image-m-22_1465653272685.jpg]

Here he is with Lydia:

[Image: 351126B100000578-3636575-image-m-11_1465652865268.jpg]

And here with Katie:

[Image: 35279D0B00000578-3636575-image-a-27_1465653518765.jpg]

No doubt even these two girls will now be hounded for their "defense of the indefensible" and for standing by their old friend in the face of the fingering atrocity committed upon the heroic Emily Doe.

It is instructive to compare these genuinely human and girly -- and very obviously heartfelt -- letters with the literary hysterics of that "victim statement", soon to be added to the Bible as a new sacred text. Very, very instructive for the attentive reader.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
06-11-2016 07:30 PM
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Post: #239
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Great work by Lizard of Oz right there. Thank you for finding that and sharing it.

For me, Brock Turner is the real victim in this case. Yeah, he shouldn't have been drinking and he made a silly mistake, but there was no rape here. The girl put herself in that situation then cried foul because she regretted it the next morning and didn't want to admit that she cheated on her boyfriend.

I would have given the guy a slap on the wrist and told the girl to stay away from alcohol next time. When two drunk people fool around, it's consensual. What we are seeing is a distortion of the word "rape" for the purpose of fueling a victimhood narrative which only serves to discredit girls who have really been raped. As in, walking at night and dragged to the bushes. Otherwise known as real rape.

Feminists continue to prove that their movement isn't about empowerment, it's about a war on masculinity, virtue signaling and attention.

(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 07:44 PM by eskimobobseal.)
06-11-2016 07:40 PM
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Post: #240
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Comments are absolutely sickening.

Daily Mail cucks think it's more likely a guy with so much to lose, and is manipulative enough to get his exes to drag their name through the mud but not manipulative enough to get the girl to not think she was assaulted, actually assaulted a girl when he's drowning in pussy. As opposed to Swedish cucks and a jury getting it wrong.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2016 08:58 PM by Centurion.)
06-11-2016 08:56 PM
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Post: #241
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Out of curiosity, I've searched far and wide for any expression of dissent against the savage consensus around this trial and its outcome. Other than a quite short Reddit MRA thread, I found exactly one such expression, in a seemingly unlikely place: an editorial on a Marxist site called the "World Socialist Web Site" (WSWS). I'm posting it in full below.

The right-wing campaign over the Stanford University sexual assault case

Quote:By Tom Carter
11 June 2016

A reactionary media and political campaign is unfolding in America around the sentencing of Stanford University freshman Brock Allen Turner for the sexual assault of a young woman following a fraternity party on campus.

The campaign reached new heights this week after California Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky sentenced the young man to six months in prison, which the media labeled excessively “lenient,” and an example of “white male privilege” and “rape culture.” Judge Persky is now the subject of a recall campaign initiated by Stanford University law professor Michele Dauber. His office has been inundated with threatening and abusive phone calls. “A lot of them are extremely rude and are just horrible and horrific,” deputy public defender Gary Goodman told reporters: “I hope you die and your family gets raped, things of that nature.”

One of Turner’s childhood friends, 20-year-old Leslie Rasmussen, a drummer in the indie rock band Good English, wrote what she believed was a confidential letter to the judge defending Turner, praising his character and calling the incident a “misunderstanding.” This letter resulted in Rasmussen being labeled a “rape apologist,” and the band’s next four performances have been canceled by the respective venues.

The extraordinary intervention of Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday reveals the political interests that are motivating the media-orchestrated campaign. In an open letter to the victim, Biden solidarized the Obama administration with the campaign against the judge’s sentence. Biden proclaimed his “furious anger” at what had happened, praising the woman in the case as a “warrior—with a solid steel spine.”

Biden’s intervention is bound up with the political calculations of the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign, which see it as an opportunity to refocus the national political discourse on gender politics—the better to bury popular issues such as social inequality, which generated an unexpected level of support for Clinton’s rival Bernie Sanders and nearly cost her the nomination.

What facts are available about the Stanford case are hazy and disputed, as they often are in such cases. On the night in question, two students discovered 20-year-old freshman Brock Allen Turner with the 22-year-old woman on the ground near a trash bin on campus. The woman was partially undressed and unconscious, with Turner on top of her.

The woman, whose name has been withheld from the public, says she does not remember the encounter at all. In Turner’s version of events, the two met at a fraternity party earlier that evening, danced, kissed, and held hands. The subsequent sexual encounter, Turner claimed, was consensual. Both were extremely drunk. Certain social and cultural factors—immaturity, alcoholism on college campuses, the phenomenon of fraternity parties—played, as they usually do in such cases, a destructive role.

Turner was convicted by a jury of three felony offenses. One may assume that the jury made a conscientious effort to follow the law and arrive at the appropriate verdict. Judge Persky, who heard all the evidence and presided over the entire case through trial, sentenced Turner to six months in prison.

In addition to the prison term, Turner will have to register as a sex offender. The combination of three felony convictions, a prison term, and registration as a sex offender has forever and catastrophically altered the life of this 20-year-old youth. His academic career has been ended. Apparently a gifted swimmer, he has no future as an athlete. Moreover, he has been the subject of an unrestrained nationwide hate campaign—with his name, face and home address plastered all over the news and social media for days on end—and he has been denounced as a monster by the vice-president of the United States. Contrary to the claims of the media, Turner has not gotten off lightly.

When it comes to determining an appropriate sentence, it is the traditional responsibility of the judge to give consideration to a host of factors, of which the circumstances and severity of the crime are part of the equation. The judge may also consider the rehabilitation of the convicted individual and whether he or she will be a danger to society in the future. In Turner’s case, a number of letters were submitted defending the youth and praising his character. The probation officer’s recommendation was a sentence of a year or less. Apparently, before the case gathered its current momentum, the victim herself told a probation officer, “I don’t want him to rot away in jail; he doesn’t need to be behind bars.”

Judge Persky cited the defendant’s age and absence of any criminal record, saying that from the standpoint of rehabilitation, a long prison sentence would be counterproductive. The judge wrote, “I think he will not be a danger to others.”


The mountain of denunciations that have been heaped on Persky for this decision have centered on the 12-page inflammatory “victim impact” letter read during sentencing, which the media has unanimously declared to be “wrenching” and “powerful.”

There is ample room for doubt as to whether “victim impact” statements are even appropriate in a criminal prosecution at all. It is the state, not the individual, that brings charges against the accused. Jurors are continuously reminded in the course of a trial that their focus must be on the facts, and that their judgments should not be clouded by emotions.


In a 2004 scholarly article in the journal Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, Bryan Myers of the University of North Carolina at Wilmington and Edith Greene of the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs considered whether such letters are “both irrelevant and so emotionally moving as to be considered prejudicial.”

The campaign around the sentencing of Turner, it should be stated directly, is lacking entirely in anything that might remotely be described as politically and socially progressive. The feminist professors at Stanford University who have whipped up the campaign against Persky and who are screaming for a harsher sentence for Turner have not bothered to work out the implications of their positions and actions. The focus on “victims’ rights”—the notion that criminal proceedings are intended to facilitate convictions and satisfy the victim’s desire for revenge rather than ensure a fair trial for the accused—has been a trademark of right-wing legal theorists for decades.

The American political and media establishment has, through long practice, made a science out of turning tragedies into profitable sensations and political opportunities. The participation of self-described “left” and “feminist” and “progressive” figures in these right-wing campaigns, side-by-side with state prosecutors and the gutter press, only testifies to the disoriented moods that prevail in these circles.

The intervention of Biden, a leading representative of American imperialism, is deserving of special contempt. This corrupt and long-time bagman for tax-dodging corporate interests in the State of DuPont-Delaware, Biden now pretends to be deeply horrified by the incident that took place at Stanford. Where was his outrage when it emerged that American soldiers—both men and women—were sodomizing and murdering Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib and elsewhere, acting out their sadistic and bloody fantasies? Biden, Congress and the Obama administration have done everything they can to conceal these crimes. No one was reading “impact letters” from tortured men and their families when a Senate Intelligence Committee report documented widespread torture in CIA “black sites”—least of all Mr. Biden.

As for Hillary Clinton, now the Democratic Party’s presumptive nominee for the presidential election, she has devoted special attention to the campaign to abolish the presumption of innocence for men accused of rape. “To every survivor of sexual assault,” she wrote on Twitter, “You have the right to be heard. You have the right to be believed. We’re with you.” She later more explicitly rejected the presumption of innocence: “Well, I would say that everybody should be believed at first until they are disbelieved based on evidence.”

Clinton should know something about how allegations of sexual misconduct can be used for political purposes. In 1998, Republican legislators organized the impeachment campaign on the grounds that Hillary Clinton’s husband was a sexual predator. Did Bill Clinton’s accusers—such as Paula Jones and Jennifer Flowers—have an absolute “right to be believed?” Hillary Clinton then defended her husband against his accusers.

At the time, the Socialist Equality Party opposed the impeachment campaign—not because we believed in Clinton’s innocence or approved of his behavior. Rather, we understood very well the reactionary political function of the sex scandal in the context of the Republican Party’s attempt to destroy his administration.

Hysterical “sexual violence” campaigns, such as the one now underway with respect to the Stanford case, are designed to pollute the political atmosphere, prevent an objective and rational discussion of the most pressing issues of war and inequality, and obscure the basic class divisions in society.

It is really quite remarkable that a Socialist newspaper editorial contains by far the most objective and accurate presentation of the facts in this case found anywhere online. Carter very correctly notes the hazy character of the story and its he said/she said nature; he fairly presents Turner's side of the story; he rightly emphasizes the terrible life-destroying implications of sex offender registration and how absurd it is to speak of "leniency" in this context. He further is entirely accurate and scathing about Joe Biden's crocodile tears; about Hillary Clinton's agenda of essentially negating the presumption of innocence in sexual assault cases (and the hypocrisy involved given the Clintons' personal history); about the inflammatory impact of "victim statements" in general; and finally, about the deeply reactionary character of the whole hysterical campaign. It is quite true that the people who call themselves "progressives" today are the true inheritors of the witch burners and Grand Inquisitors of yesteryear. With some deletions and changes here and there, I could have pretty much written the whole article.

I'm not sure which is stranger: that a fringe Marxist website is the one place on the web other than this forum where one can find a thoughtful and accurate discussion of the Turner case; or that other than that odd corner of the web, we are completely and utterly alone in a world swept by savage misandrist hysteria. But these are the realities.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
06-11-2016 09:59 PM
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Post: #242
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Thank you for finding that, TLOZ.

I didn't understand why you were so angry about this case until you posted that article.
06-12-2016 12:16 AM
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Post: #243
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
It amazes me that the "victim's" name is still withheld. No one writes a letter like hers and doesn't want attention. She's either negotiating a huge interview payday or someone is paying her to stay quiet.

At this point, I have got to see what this "victim" looks like.
06-12-2016 12:54 AM
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Post: #244
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
So, this girl was so traumatized by the episode that she managed to write a >7000 word litany on the subject. She's either a future Pulitzer prize winner, or the guy should change his name to Melpomene. Or, maybe she had some assistance writing it...

The letter looks like a combination of the sort of rambling you might expect in a victim statement and some literary flourishes, like the strap line "You don’t know me, but you’ve been inside me, and that’s why we’re here today." I'm guessing maybe the literary flourishes came from her man-hating ballbuster attorney, along with the overall editing.

She admits she doesn't remember anything about the incident. One minute she's drinking, next thing she remembers is being on a gurney. So how does she know that she wasn't up for some 'fun' or 'action' with the guy? From her description it seems that the rape examination in the hospital was more traumatic than the incident itself.

I found this part especially ironic:

"Then he asked if he could finger me and I said yes. Most guys don’t ask, can I finger you? Usually there’s a natural progression of things, unfolding consensually, not a Q and A."

But hang on - isn't that exactly what they demand men do these days - "Affirmative Consent" ? And there it is, the admission that that's not how things happen.

She'll be fine. In fact I'll guess she's got it made now. All the attention she could ever want. Instead of having to explain to her boyfriend how she had a drunken fumble with some athlete, she's got everyone eating out of her hand. I'm sure she'll be able to put the "trauma" behind her - especially since she can't remember it anyway.
06-12-2016 07:11 AM
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Post: #245
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
LoZ Wrote:The certainty that this kid is guilty baffles me and shows what we're up against.

The certainty that this kid is innocent baffles me. Two non-SJW/leftist California trial lawyers who have litigated rape cases (Sp5 and MikeCF) agree with the jury or understand why they returned a guilty verdict. You might not care about their opinions, but their opinions hold stronger weight than yours or mine in this case. Who would you rather learn military tactics from: a Marine infantry captain with time in Sangin or me?

On a litany of other topics, I agree.
  • The public and media response is overblown.
  • The judge was correct to levy a mitigated sentence as opposed to throwing the book at him.
  • Sexual offender status should only be slapped on hardened predators, not a 19 year old kid who made a bad judgement call.
  • Emily Doe certainly did not write that victim impact statement.
  • Fuck Joe Biden for weighing in.
  • And so on...
However, under prevailing California law regarding rape, the jury was likely correct in finding Turner guilty of at least one of the charges against him. If I were on the jury, I probably would have voted guilty. I won't rehash the case details again because Sp5 did a better job than I did.

I continue to reiterate my stance on this matter (although I do plan to avoid this thread going forward) as I don't think you are approaching this case rationally and your star power may be leading more impressionable forum members astray.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=31969]
06-12-2016 12:27 PM
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Post: #246
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
@Peregrine Isn't the fact that two of his exes came out supporting him when their names are dragged through the mud sufficient enough evidence for his innocence?
06-12-2016 01:12 PM
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Post: #247
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
(06-12-2016 12:27 PM)Peregrine Wrote:  [Image: attachment.php?aid=31969]

Honestly, that's a ludicrous tweet from Mike. Turner was NOT EVEN CHARGED with rape -- the initial two rape charges were immediately dropped.

Let's review -- for the 100th time -- what happened here. A drunk dude and a drunk -- but very definitely conscious, talking and walking -- gal leave a frat party together. 20 minutes later two passersby find her seemingly passed out from drunkenness and him on top of her (but fully clothed and NOT "raping" her at that moment). He freely volunteers the information that he fingered her at some point during these 20 minutes while she was still conscious and wanted it.

That's it. You can argue that by some formal reading of the law he should have been convicted on one of the charges -- though I strongly disagree and feel that the burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt was not approached, let alone exceeded, in this case. But to argue that this is a clear-cut case of "rape" that everyone must acknowledge as such is frankly laughable. There is nothing else to say.

No amount of talk from lawyers and experts, credentialed or otherwise, changes what the facts are. You can have whatever consensus you like but reality and common sense are what they are and no appeal to authority can change that.

same old shit, sixes and sevens Shaft...
06-12-2016 03:12 PM
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GlobalMan Offline
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Post: #248
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Peregrine,

A lawyer's job is to view the facts at hand and understand how the prosecution could frame those facts to achieve a conviction. Objective truth is not a significant or useful concern for them, it is only how the facts can be presented and sold that matters.

For example, a lawyer could have first hand knowledge of the innocence of a client yet he would still advise his client to take a deal if he feels it is likely the prosecution will be able to frame the events in a way that would result in conviction.

What the ultimate nuanced truth is does not really concern lawyers and understandably so- The prosecution and defense aren't seeking objective truth, they are seeking to convict and defend from conviction respectively, nothing more than that. That is the foundation of how our Adversarial system of justice works. The truth is supposed to result from this system, but it's definitely not guaranteed, and is certainly not what each side is working towards. Each side is working towards convincing the jury of their framing of events, that is all.

So it is understandable that some lawyers commenting state they understand how and why the conviction occurred, but that is distinctly separate to a discussion of what the actual objective truth may be.

Lawyers are pragmatic in their assessment of cases, and view "guilt" and "innocence" through the lenses of the judicial process, because that is what they must do. A conclusion reached while viewing facts through those lenses has little to do with what actual truth may be - it is simply a recognition by them that the prosecution was able to frame the events in a way that would result in conviction.

With that in mind, and given there are numerous reasons to doubt here (which some of these lawyers acknowledged), that comments come from a lawyer doesn't necessarily add any special weight to the idea that the kid actually did what the prosecution claimed.

Anyone can view the facts at hand, even a laymen non-lawyer, and if done so without any pre-conceived notion you will see that there are multiple serious flaws in this case.

Americans are dreamers too
(This post was last modified: 06-12-2016 05:42 PM by GlobalMan.)
06-12-2016 04:44 PM
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Post: #249
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Monster indeed TLOZ.

I just read the witness statements, WTF is going on here.

Police officers statement on how Turner still looked like he had hard on after being pinned down for 15 minutes. You sir, wrote that statement expecting this to proceed to a rape trial involving penetration with penis, I believe.

Main witnesses, ie Swedes, both have conflicting statements regarding how they came upon the situation, also they can't agree if they both tended ED or if one tended her whilst the other chased the alleged assailant.

The mystery man taking photo's, who disappeared.

The victim's sister so consumed with guilt over leaving her with weird, aggressive characters. She was concerned for her friends welfare and sensibly took her to a safe place to sleep it off. She was not concerned for the welfare of her sister, because, she was fine.

The Paramedic who alledgedly used the 'Glasgow Coma Scale'(a brain injury scale) to determine her conscious state. Even though.

Limitations of the Glasgow Coma Scale

Factors like drug use, alcohol intoxication, shock, or low blood oxygen can alter a patient’s level of consciousness. These factors could lead to an inaccurate score on the GCS.

The victim. Where do you start. Basically admits to being functioning alcoholic, who has long history of excessive alcohol consumption leading to blackouts. 

She starts her evening by having 4 shots of whiskey in half an hour before she even leaves the house, stating this will give her buzz for two hours. Solid, rational behaviour of a sensible, functioning alcoholic. I wonder what her estimate of consumption is before she has her blackouts, she should have a rough idea, it's happened many times. 

What has been her behavioural patterns during these previous blackout episodes, was she the split personality type, Jekyll & Hyde like. Was she openly promiscuous during these previous blackout episodes. Has she indeed, ever woke up in a strange bed with a person unknown to her, during these previous blackout episodes. Or as she has claimed during this case, when the blackout stage occurs, she immediately falls to the ground like a rag doll.

As Sp5, DOBA and others mentioned, the defence should have picked the prosecutions case apart more thoroughly than they appear to have. The statements alone have more holes in them than a Swiss cheese.

I'm actually now thinking along the lines of this is a set up, the boys defence team don't seem to have done any defending. The jury seemed full of WK jurors, who during the trial started asking the defence expert witness questions that were just taking the piss. The defence expert witness was hopeless by all accounts, again a question that has to be asked to the defence team.

All in all, a very sorry episode, sacrificial lamb comes to mind!






 
Edit: TLOZ. My wings are like a shield of steel, your star power cannot harm me!
06-12-2016 05:50 PM
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Post: #250
RE: Stanford Rape Case: Victim Letter Going Viral
Since a typical Internet search will yield you page after page of histrionic, convoluted, pathologically pruned and deceitfully crafted garbage, here is a resource of the actual court documents for your perusal without the pundit propaganda.

http://documents.latimes.com/stanford-brock-turner/

May the truth be with you
06-12-2016 07:59 PM
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