Post: #1

I was listening to a lecture on Nutrition (Paleo) and Weight training (High Intensity) and the speaker mentioned offhand that in approaching girls, it's really a DNA genetic match thing, and no technique you do will make a difference. I don't think what he said is really game denial, as he still implies that approaching, (and presumably, if you are approaching bettering yourself), is still valuable. It is just that in the end, it's up to your genes. It does help explain why "all game is a numbers game", as Roosh stated, and prevents chasing dead end sets.

Is the guy onto something? Or should he stick to Paleo brownie recipes?

Post: #2

If that isn't Game denial I don't know what is. He's basically saying give up if they're not your ethnicity, attractiveness level, etc.

Post: #3

I think it's really game denial. See, if it was only a genetic thing, many players around who are nothing but average looking guys with alright salaries, wouldn't be banging 9's.

Game does a great deal of mimicking this "genetic features" that the best suited male reproducers have, things like DHV, being aloof... The list goes on, in the end of the day, just approaching is not using game at all, it's just betting your luck on pussy.. Most of my guy friends do this, and they can get laid every now and then, but it's far from gaming at all.

He should stick with the brownie recipes.

Post: #4

A few things.

1. Even disregarding game, my DNA hasn't changed since I was 20, but I'm far more attractive as I've gotten older. My age has made me more attractive, physically, whether working out or not.

2. Disregarding game again, but including genetic expression (DNA --> transcription translation --> proteins that actually do stuff) I haven't changed much since I was 20. I suppose working out and being bigger and healthier and more confident has changed things, and I produce less testosterone than I did back then, it's still not that different.

3. Of course it's way way oversimplification and denial. We can manipulate photos with the same dude and make him far more or less attractive per his body language or surroundings.

4. I don't throw anybody under the bus if they're encouraging simply approaching. 95% of guys will never approach. And most guys over think an approach. If he's using the Mark Manson method of simply approaching and being yourself (which I know gets a lot of hate around here)...he's helping guys improve. I've used this for myself before...where I was over-thinking the approach, I had to step back and say, "heavy, it's just a chick, and who knows if it will work out, just say something to her". Don't worry, be yourself, and go talk to her can work a lot of shit out for a guy.

5. I think there is some strange truth to his point. I think pheromones and smell or something factor in to our attraction. There's more to it than aesthetics and conversation and getting along.

Post: #5

There is a german idiom. "I can't smell qwert" --> "I don't like qwert"
There was another discussion on the board about the intoxicating scent of a girl you match with, it gives you relentless boners and an unbreakable drive to fuck. Fucking addicting.

Post: #6

Some thoughts:

Most of the time, genetics determines one's destiny. Science increasingly supports this (we now know that pheromones are highly determinative of female maturation, and IQ is pretty much genetic, for example.) Height is overwhelmingly correlated to attractiveness, as is physical symmetry. There's fairly little (at present, anyway) we can do about much of that.

Some men have naturally commanding voices and never get acne. We all know men who are tall, handsome, smart and athletic, and are buried in pussy with minimal effort.

And for the vast majority of men, there's little than they can do to transcend their genetics. The ambitious few struggle against nature and seek to be more than just what Fortuna has chosen for them. And forums like this are part of that effort.

Post: #7

Leaving aside the game denialist points of the speaker that OP mentioned, there is something to be said about pheromones and genetic attractiveness.

This isn't much of a data point, to be sure, but anecdotally, there's a girl I'm seeing back in Canada who once asked to use a dirty T-shirt of mine to wear as a masturbatory aid when I was away on a month-long sail. I was bemused enough that I let her do it.

She later told me she had never came so hard and so long by herself.

Post: #8

Me, a short Indian guy on the skinnier side that supposedly has incompatible genetics with my current environment (large American city) should not be getting as much reception as I do, especially from women that look nothing like me.

According to this theory, the hard work I put into my sense of fashion and somewhat extroverted personality also mean very little to nothing.

Bullshit to the max if you ask me. Another way to supress belief in game aka game denialism to its extreme as the other poster said. Worst game denialism is when people try to mask it with tangible scientific "proof" while ignoring the intangibles altogether.

Post: #9

(05-20-2016 02:01 PM)scrambled Wrote:  I was listening to a lecture on Nutrition (Paleo) and Weight training (High Intensity) and the speaker mentioned offhand that in approaching girls, it's really a DNA genetic match thing, and no technique you do will make a difference. I don't think what he said is really game denial, as he still implies that approaching, (and presumably, if you are approaching bettering yourself), is still valuable. It is just that in the end, it's up to your genes. It does help explain why "all game is a numbers game", as Roosh stated, and prevents chasing dead end sets.

Is the guy onto something? Or should he stick to Paleo brownie recipes?

Game denialism at its finest.

Game denialists always looking for a way to protect their egos.
"Don't approach bro"

There are 4 basic pathways

1) Primal/Reptilian Brain - a girl sees your fitness and she wants to fuck you based off of that. Nice strong jaw line, big muscles, athletic performance.

2) Social - You have fame, she knows you have power, you have money. You look like you have those things by your interactions with other people. These are you celebrities, actors, politicians, local cool guy, the guy who flashes his cash. Those guys are attractive to her whether or not they represent great genetic options.

3) Psychological/Emotional effect that you have on a girl through interaction. - Time and time again guys all over the world talk to girls that are not interested in them INITIALLY. But by giving her the "feels", suddenly she is interested.

This is game.

It's wrong to think of it as a magic trick. Think of game as what that funny/interesting/popular guy says to a chick that makes her blush.

What game is - is breaking down what that guy that's "naturally" good with women does. A guy that gets the game knows when to compliment, when to tease, when to correct, how to lead. So we have learned when to do these things and what they sub-communicate and what her responding behavior is.

Doing those things to a girl makes her attracted.

A lot of guys don't believe me, but we all know about the female employee that works for a boss and slowly starts to fall in love with him. Same with students and professors. Trainers and Yoga Masters get the same thing. Bartenders...

Put a guy in a position to fuck with a girl's emotions, and tell her what to do - suddenly he becomes attractive.

And not all guys know how to take advantage of this situation, but most guys could learn by watching.

- flirt with the customer
- get her problems and issues out
- correct the customer

The BEHAVIOR is attractive to the girl regardless of what he looks like.

Behavior can be attractive despite appearances. It's like the runt of the baseball team who turns out to be best base stealer. And it works in reverse. The tall black dude who can't play basketball. He loses attractiveness based on that. The Asian dorky looking guy who turns into a bad ass breakdancer. The white guy who breaks out the Korean.

Most small time comedians aren't attractive, but they say things, have mannerisms, use dramatic pauses to make people feel things.

Brad Pitt is not a professional thief. He barely says shit in the Ocean's movie, but the way he moves, his micro-expressions and reactions - they turn him into this cool ass dude. There are plenty of dressed up pretty boys in the movies, but Pitt conveys how cool he is via his behavior.

So if you take that behavior and focus on the emotions and the sub-communications - you sleep with chicks that don't think you're rich or particularly strong and good looking.
____________________________________________________

4) She wants to bang you for reasons that have nothing to do with you, and everything to do with her.

These are the girls that are DTF. They're DTF anybody past a certain low criteria, they're not looking for long term provisioning, or genetic possibilities. They want to climax, go through a sexual experience because they want it.

She could be hormonal.
She could be feeling bad about herself.
She's poor at socialization, but she knows when guys want her.
She wants to reward herself for a good week at work
She wants to get back at her boyfriend
She's lonely. She doesn't feel sexy.
She thinks that she can trap a guy into a relationship - because what she wants is affection/comfort and someone to rely on. She doesn't even like the sex.

In general, lots of women do not value sex to the same degree that men do, because they can have sex whenever they want to. So it's not always about the typical things men want.

We all suffer from Gender Myopia. What is important to our gender, we assume the other gender finds important. She cares about her stupid college degree, we care about her BMI. We care that we have an M5 not just 5-Series with the sports option, and all she sees is a guy with money that can buy her shit.
___________________________________________________

That's why Paleo guys and people that do not do this shit for real should ease back on their commentary.

Believe what you want.

Those of us out here getting it, know the truth.

WIA

Post: #10

(05-21-2016 08:10 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Me, a short Indian guy on the skinnier side that supposedly has incompatible genetics with my current environment (large American city) should not be getting as much reception as I do, especially from women that look nothing like me.

According to this theory, the hard work I put into my sense of fashion and somewhat extroverted personality also mean very little to nothing.

Bullshit to the max if you ask me. Another way to supress belief in game aka game denialism to its extreme as the other poster said. Worst game denialism is when people try to mask it with tangible scientific "proof" while ignoring the intangibles altogether.

Yeah the whole idea of genetic match theory is not that you *look* exactly like your environment, but that possess certain genetic traits that complement your partner in some way. So it's actually the other way around, the less you look like your environment the better the match would be. We all know that incest produces birth defects because the genetic makeup of the couple is very similar. So that's why it's beneficial that two very different people have a child together so that their genetics get mixed together and create a unique genetic mix. The genetic match theory says that two people can feel that they have genetics that complement each other well and thus feel attraction for each other. For example unconsciously via body odor.

Not sure what I think of this myself, but it might be one aspect of attraction - but definitely not the only one.

Post: #11

^^^ Yes it's based around the idea that certain gene combinations result in a healthier immune system for the offspring.

They have also done studies where similar genes repel, which should theoretically help prevent incest.

Post: #12

There is a lot of stuff these days that are bad for people genetically but they do it anyway until their body rejects it. Bad foods, bad company but the orchestrators of this stuff are able to do it long enough to get their hooks in. Even if you are bad for her genetically or don't match up, you are only getting in long enough to get your penetration and then she can hamster it off.

There are many marriages and biological unions that happen in this world due to politics and convenience..and nothing to do with genetic markers. Many lizards bang men within their proximity which is why social circle game is so effective. By using day game or club game, you are creating a social circle and just accelerating the comfort zones with the lizard where she feels she can exchange body fluids with you without seeing you in the same area (class, social group, supermarket) for weeks.

Post: #13

Yeah, loosing weight, working out, having cash, having banter and being confident never got me more poon, because..... dna

Yeah.

Post: #14

I don't really buy any of this junk, and I'm not anti-game, but I did once read an article that suggested that "love at first sight" was recognition of a genetic match. And, while I'm wary that I'm telling myself a narrative, the two most sexually satisfying, passionate relationships I've had were ones where there was just an instant connection-- we looked at each other without alcohol involved and just knew it was on. One of these wasn't consummated for months, but it was there the whole time.

Now, as it never does, this feeling doesn't last. I don't believe in love at first sight as making a good life partner, but I do think there's something weird that happens and forms an instant connection. I also believe that the more you up your game, style, fitness, mannerisms as a guy, the more often you will get this from girls. But I'm not sure if you will feel it any more often.

Or I could just be really attached to romance here.

Post: #15

No. There are many tall, or higher quality guys who end up with ugly (or average) women because they lack game. Likewise I've seen very average-looking, non-muscular guys fuck hot girls. Game matters.

Post: #16

(05-21-2016 10:04 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  That's why Paleo guys and people that do not do this shit for real should ease back on their commentary.

Believe what you want.

Those of us out here getting it, know the truth.

WIA

Post: #17

I don't think we need to make absolutes of this. There is definitely a component of both involved.

If sexual selection was a case of just pairing off based on sexual rank, there would be no point in 'dating'. There would be some kind of central 'rank judging committee', and people would just be paired off according to their number and be satisfied with it.

In reality, it's much more complex. It is true that at the core of it: genetics matters the most, but some genes are not immediately visible. Some genes must be flexed, and it can take years to have them fully demonstrated. Wealth is a good example (and it's also the international standard in male mate selection). It depends on multiple personal aspects being concurrently in play: intelligence, energy, charisma & social skills, drive etc. All of those have genetic aspects. If you're intelligent but not energetic, or driven but socially awkward, you'll always have to struggle harder than the next guy for the same payoff -- and everyone has his struggle limits.

On top of that, there are personal preferences in sexual selection. This is especially true coming from women (each women weights male attributes differently). But it also applies to men. I for one have strongly experienced the disconnect between beauty and hotness. Some chicks have been objectively beautiful enough to be called top tier, but didn't evoke particularly visceral attraction. Other girls weren't so photogenic, but the sexual attraction was so strong that we just really had to bang each other all the time. There is certainly a certain genetic "clicking" in play here, like both people involved bring to the table exactly what the other person is most attracted to (which is genetic to some extent), and probably also aspects like the immune system complement phenomenon.

Post: #18

"No technique you do will make a difference"

Just flip it around.

So this girl really likes you. But you don't find her attractive at all. Are you saying some type of her technique can make herself more attractive to you?
She just doesn't have 'it' but she is trying to come up with some 'Game', how would you look at her?

Post: #19

This is probably just a load of shit. Genes really do not have anything to do with attraction other than affecting your looks, which is nothing new. How would this " genetic matching " be determined? Alot of people here seem to be mentioning pheromones, but we haven't found evidence of a human pheromone as of yet. There is some evidence that points to it but it is weak at best. Not to mention that humans don't even have an active vomeronasal organ ( the organ used in detecting pheromones in other animals ), which begs the question of how human pheromones would even be detected by other humans.

Phoenix mentioned that intelligence, energy, charisma, social skills and drive etc have genetic aspects. The fact of the matter is that the only thing of those that has a genetic component to it is intelligence. Things like energy, charisma, social skills etc are influenced by the individuals environment rather than its genetics. Of course we have a thing called epigenetics but that is poorly understood and most likely doesn't affect ones charisma or social skills. A very social, funny and charismatic person isn't that way because of their genes, they are that way because the environment they grew up in encouraged that behaviour. Young children adapt extremely well to their environment and the behaviours they see early on in their lives greatly influence their personalities later on in life. People who come from a big, loud and social family tend to be loud and social aswell.

Overall there is alot of misunderstanding of genetics on this forum I think. Some people seem to think that there is an " alpha male gene ", which just doesn't work. I think it stems from a misunderstanding of what genes really are. Bascially, a gene is a region in the DNA that codes for a protein. That's all genes are, codes for proteins. They do not directly affect behaviour like being alpha / beta or being intro/extroverted. It can be argued that they indirectly affect such behaviour by affecting things like testosterone etc. which is true. But then again, there are betas with high testosterone and there are alphas with low testosterone. To conclude, your genes do not affect as much as you think. Also, there is no alpha male gene(s).

Post: #20

(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  "No technique you do will make a difference"

Just flip it around.

So this girl really likes you. But you don't find her attractive at all. Are you saying some type of her technique can make herself more attractive to you?
She just doesn't have 'it' but she is trying to come up with some 'Game', how would you look at her?

Game for men us different from game for women congruent to the correlation between attractiveness to a man being different from what attractiveness means to a woman. So essentially you missed the point.

I thought I had seen you make similar game denialism focused arguments before and it's true. Beyond Borders called you out not too long ago for this. I believe that since then you were consciously keeping under the radar. I had you marked down for the hunt back then. One thing I realize now about trolls is that they slip up. I just wait for it. Your post above is not trollish in and of itself but the pattern of posts you have created combined with the lack of value you have added to the forum while having a high post count has troll written all over it.

Relevant post here: /thread-52526...pid1199483

I'll let the mods decide what to do of course. However, you have sure as heck made it to the top of my list of potential trolls that bring the forum down. Congratulations. I'll be in touch.

Post: #21

(05-20-2016 02:01 PM)scrambled Wrote:  I was listening to a lecture on Nutrition (Paleo) and Weight training (High Intensity) and the speaker mentioned offhand that in approaching girls, it's really a DNA genetic match thing, and no technique you do will make a difference.

Please forward this to the chodse...errr..."speaker" for me

Post: #22

What's he selling?

Post: #23

I believe it was Dr. Doug McGuff at the 21 Convention a few years ago that mentioned this. His book is called Body by Science.

I posted a video of him speaking here years ago. He mentions this offhand at the beginning, apparently because he gave his talk just after a "game" lecture.

Post: #24

In essence, it's the same for both gender. It's called 'Chemistry'.
Have you heard about it?

If there is no chemistry, you simply move on.
Reading a strategy on gaming a woman, writing a thread about her (you see those frequently), watching youtube video won't change that.

The more you try to figure out like this, the less you look attractive.
Ask women if they want to date a guy who analyze about women like this. they will run. I don't want to hangout with a guy who deeply get into something like this.
We all want to hangout with guys who are just 'chill' instead of saying shits like 'According to scientists...'

By the way, I recommend spending your time chatting up with some girls instead of following some asian dude's posts. do you think what you are doing is attractive to women?

(05-22-2016 07:54 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)Sebastian Wrote:  "No technique you do will make a difference"

Just flip it around.

So this girl really likes you. But you don't find her attractive at all. Are you saying some type of her technique can make herself more attractive to you?
She just doesn't have 'it' but she is trying to come up with some 'Game', how would you look at her?

Game for men us different from game for women congruent to the correlation between attractiveness to a man being different from what attractiveness means to a woman. So essentially you missed the point.

I thought I had seen you make similar game denialism focused arguments before and it's true. Beyond Borders called you out not too long ago for this. I believe that since then you were consciously keeping under the radar. I had you marked down for the hunt back then. One thing I realize now about trolls is that they slip up. I just wait for it. Your post above is not trollish in and of itself but the pattern of posts you have created combined with the lack of value you have added to the forum while having a high post count has troll written all over it.

Relevant post here: /thread-52526...pid1199483

I'll let the mods decide what to do of course. However, you have sure as heck made it to the top of my list of potential trolls that bring the forum down. Congratulations. I'll be in touch.

Post: #25

(05-21-2016 10:04 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  That's why Paleo guys and people that do not do this shit for real should ease back on their commentary.

game is the new "gut health"