Post: #1

If you have a wife who has sex with you the majority of the times when you want it, and is pretty good in bed, how much sexual refusal do you tolerate the remainder of the time, before you make an issue of it?

Or do you just say, "Well, I'm getting what I want most of the time, so it's reasonable to just compromise and let her have her way if she's not in the mood a certain percentage of the time"?

For some reason, the way my psychology works is that I get demoralized when I'm refused, and feel discouraged from asking later, even though she might say yes. It's hard for me to not take it personally when I get rebuffed. It makes me feel like she's dominant in the relationship if she's in a position to choose when we have sex. I'm really into the creature comforts of having a woman feed me and have sex with me at my whim; it gives me a feeling of comfort and luxury. It's almost like it's more about the principle than the actual sex.

I tried the advice mentioned in the first item of 5 Lines That Potential Wives Cannot Cross, in that before we got married, I asked her (numerous times) to promise that she would have sex with me whenever I wanted. I told her it's been a big issue in past relationships with me, because I just seem to get bent out of shape more than most men when I get refused.

I don't know how many guys share this fetish, but I have a strong desire to sexually own my wife, and to be able to take her whenever I want, as long as she's not physically ill. It's one of the reasons I've pushed her in the direction of being a housewife, so that she wouldn't be able to say "I'm tired from working all day" or "I have to work tomorrow". I want her to be my 24/7 sex slave. I told her, if she's going to say "I'm not in the mood" I'd rather she make a request rather than a demand, and let me still make the final decision.

Just to give you a little background, we're newly married. She's from the Philippines; I finally decided to go with a foreign woman after getting catastrophically frivorced by my borderline personality disordered, radical LGBTQ/feminist SJW blogging, American first wife. She's more traditional than some girls I encountered from, say, Manila, although she's in her late 20s and had a couple major relationships that didn't work out before the two of us met. She's lived with her churchgoing family and the rest of her clan in a pretty traditional Filipino village most of her life, aside from a period when she ran away from home, cut her short, and went to live on her own in the city. I suspect Matt Forney is correct that the Philippines is becoming more Americanized, although there's still a lot of difference between the two cultures and how women are encouraged by their families to act.

When my wife and I first met online, my life was in pretty bad shape, but as time went on I got reestablished in my career and started reading RoK a lot. Reading forum posts like this one makes me want to ascend to the next level by getting back into a workout routine. My wife said shortly after she got to the U.S. that I should get bigger muscles, but then when I said I was going to start working out, she backpedaled and said she didn't want it to take away from spending time with her. I took that at face value and figured, "Well, my job is about to go perm anyway, and then I'll have access to the company's fitness center, so it can't hurt to put off for a few weeks getting into a workout routine."

But at this point I feel like getting big and getting some testosterone in my body for my own benefit, and to increase the masculine/feminine polarity between us. It's the same reason I've been encouraging her to grow her hair longer, wear dresses instead of pants, etc. If she had her way, I'm pretty sure that she would want to just have a small family and get a job, so she could be freer to travel around the world and post the resulting pics to Facebook. At the same time, though, she's still an order of magnitude more accommodating and submissive than any American woman I've been with.

Post: #2

You're giving her the option of refusal by asking for permission.

Start taking charge lest her resentment becomes a permanent feature of your marriage.

Post: #3

How often are you having sex?

Does she suck your dick during blowjob week each month?

Post: #4

None.

Here's a well thought-out something I've referred to often while dealing with LTRs or fuckbuddies.

http://www.personalpowermeditation.com/f...n-process/

TL;DR: Allow her to deny you sex and you are cucking yourself. Man up and tell her not to do it again.

Post: #5

This transformation of yours is ultimately going to lead to more sex, or the end of your marriage. Your wife isn't going to wake up one day and say "Wow what a man he's become, I'm never turning him down for sex again!" It just doesn't work like that.

Early last year before I broke off my engagement, months had gone by without me getting sex from my fiance. Talk about demoralization and resentment. It got there because of variety of reasons I'm not going to get into, but the point is that I hadn't set the tone or been consistent. What's ironic is that before we got engaged and moved in together, we were still having a lot of sex.

Does your wife enjoy sex with you? If so, you can start there.

The next time you're rejected, you persist, slowly. Kiss her neck, up the foreplay, use whatever tricks you know of to get her aroused. Women change their minds so fast, all of a sudden she won't even remember she said no or why the first time. Of course if you get a very firm "no" or she physically tries to push you away, you've got bigger problems mate. The answer to how much sexual refusal you should tolerate from any woman, much less your wife, is zero.

Let us know how it works out. I came close to marriage and am well-versed in both this issue and avoiding it. If your wife is as feminine and non-western as it sounds, she should submit to you. But you need to act now before these refusals solidify and turn into habit. In a perfect world you get sex all the time, whenever you want. But it's normal for her to be tired and pick up where you left off in the morning too.

With the girl I'm dating now and with some of those in the past, they try to pull the "girl time" card. Nope, but with me. I grab a dark colored towel. The next time it's not even a conversation.

You should never ask for sex. You pursue it. These are all mind games.

Post: #6

(04-03-2016 05:44 AM)Windom Earle Wrote:  You're giving her the option of refusal by asking for permission.

Start taking charge lest her resentment becomes a permanent feature of your marriage.

Yeah, I probably have been too timid/hesitant in my approach sometimes. It's probably because I'm still a little gun shy due to my first wife's marital rape accusations. (That chick accused pretty much all of her exes of physical, mental, and/or sexual abuse, and got restraining orders against three of them, and was threatening to get a restraining order against her own father but ended up killing herself first. Typical BPD scenario.)

However, what if it's gotten to the point where your wife hasn't just said no but has had a conversation with you laying out her principle that you shouldn't get to have your way with her sexually whenever you want? Is that likely a shit test?

In answer to the other poster's question -- we actually have a pretty good sex life, usually 1-2 times a day, but on weekends when I'm well-rested I might want to take her a couple times in the morning, and her attitude is, "We just did that a few hours ago." I'm not into BJs all that much, except as part of foreplay; I've never been able to reach orgasm by BJ, by any girl. That may be because they have trouble deepthroating me.

Post: #7

If I'm reading this correctly, you have sex with your wife multiple times per day. She cooks for you and cleans for you and she wants to start a family.

This sounds like a problem with you and not your wife. I'm assuming no one in this thread thought you were fucking the wife multiple times a day.

Post: #8

(04-03-2016 06:32 AM)PartManPartMonkey Wrote:  If I'm reading this correctly, you have sex with your wife multiple times per day. She cooks for you and cleans for you and she wants to start a family.

This sounds like a problem with you and not your wife. I'm assuming no one in this thread thought you were fucking the wife multiple times a day.

Well, I guess I should've said that in the first post. So if the problem is me, I need to figure out a way to not let it get to me when I'm rejected.. I guess I should find something else to do, to distract myself from the thought of sex at those times..

Like I say, though, when I get rejected, I feel hesitant to make an attempt later.

Post: #9

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. It depends on you and your wife.

A sexless marriage is defined as having sex less than 10 times a year. I reached that point with my first wife. Probably should have divorced her, but I didn't believe in divorce at the time. She rejected me so many times, I stopped giving a fuck. She'd tear me down all day, then come to bed after 11 at night (when I normally get up at 5), and say "I'm here." Oh, that's hot.

My second wife adores me. I can initiate with her by saying something like "It's time for your boning" or "Hey! Bedroom! Now!" Seem seems to like that. Also enjoys a good spanking. She only turns me down when she is honestly exhausted or not feeling well. But since I have a 56 mile commute that can stretch out to 2 or 3 hours one way, I'm normally the one who is too tired.

Post: #10

(04-03-2016 06:52 AM)emuelle1 Wrote:  My second wife adores me. I can initiate with her by saying something like "It's time for your boning" or "Hey! Bedroom! Now!" Seem seems to like that. Also enjoys a good spanking. She only turns me down when she is honestly exhausted or not feeling well. But since I have a 56 mile commute that can stretch out to 2 or 3 hours one way, I'm normally the one who is too tired.

When she turns you down, how does she do it? Does she ask if it would be okay to not have sex because she's feeling tired, and let you be the one to decide to wait till she's more well-rested; or does she just outright refuse?

I think the symbolism is what gets to me. Being rejected reminds me that, ultimately, as the one in the relationship who wants more frequent sex, I'm in a less powerful position. I can think to myself, "Wow, I am the man; I have a beautiful wife who's here to satisfy my every sexual and gastronomical wish" and then reality comes crashing down when she rejects me. Basically, being in charge is a pleasant illusion that I like to maintain, and when she's able to deny me, it dispels the illusion. It's like when during a movie you see a Japanese actor's lips not matching up to the dubbed words, and it reminds you that you're watching a movie.

To use another analogy, it's like how you can be driving down the street in your flashy sports car and thinking, "I am a true king" and then suddenly a cop pulls you over, makes you late to your appointment, and takes a shitty attitude with you while he's writing you a ticket and telling you that you can fight it in court if you don't mind taking a whole day off of work to sit around waiting for your case to be called. You feel like you've just been put in your place. Yeah, you knew all along in the back of your mind that there are people in this world who are more powerful than you, but this just reminded you of it in an unmistakable way. It's like what John Steinbeck wrote after he wasn't allowed to take his dog across the border without proof of vaccination: "Government can make you feet so small and mean that it takes some doing to build back a sense of self-importance."

In the big scheme of things, having to wait a little while for sex or getting a traffic ticket isn't a big deal. But it can be a buzzkill when you were feeling elated about your own self-importance. I like to get off on narcissistic self-indulgence.

Post: #11

(04-03-2016 06:48 AM)RaymondKertezc Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 06:32 AM)PartManPartMonkey Wrote:  If I'm reading this correctly, you have sex with your wife multiple times per day. She cooks for you and cleans for you and she wants to start a family.

This sounds like a problem with you and not your wife. I'm assuming no one in this thread thought you were fucking the wife multiple times a day.

Well, I guess I should've said that in the first post. So if the problem is me, I need to figure out a way to not let it get to me when I'm rejected.. I guess I should find something else to do, to distract myself from the thought of sex at those times..

Like I say, though, when I get rejected, I feel hesitant to make an attempt later.

Raymond -- I'm also married, though my situation is different. My wife works and is with child. However, there have been times when I've wanted sex and she didn't. And yes I was frustrated, though I didn't feel rejected. I didn't feel rejected because we do have regular sex and she is very attracted to me. She also does a lot of cooking and cleaning and generally takes good care of me. Importantly, she will be an excellent mother to my children. I'm also able to see things from her point of view: she had a long day; she's tired; her back hurts. You get the idea.

Some people may tell you never to compromise, but that isn't realistic. I don't have to tell you that we have to compromise sometimes in life and in relationships -- especially when married. If you've picked a wife wisely, which to me it seems like you have, then you are getting many positives out of your marriage that strongly outweigh the times when you are frustrated and rejected.

I don't read ROK; it's never appealed to me (obviously no offense to Roosh who I admire). But that article you linked to has set you up for failure. Your wife isn't an animal or a machine. She has a mind and can make decisions and has mood swings and emotions and preferences and wants and on and on. You mentioned you wanted to start going to the gym. You could do that when you feel frustrated or rejected. You could work on your career or hustle. You could take a walk outside. You could talk to your wife about the way you feel when she doesn't want to have sex. You may get some insight from her point of view that gives you some perspective.

If you want a 24 hour, year round sex slave you will probably continue to be disappointed. But if you want a wife that will have sex with you every day and cooks and cleans and wants a family, well you already have that.

Post: #12

This might sound immature, but once I've been rejected by my wife it becomes a game that only ends with sex or her screaming at me while taking her pillow and going to sleep in the other room. Just keep pestering her, no one is sleeping until this gets resolved. Although at 1 to 2 times a day it sounds like you're doing pretty good, I always thought once a day was a fair balance.

Post: #13

Just find a side piece. Believe me, girls will do the same when they're not getting good sex.

Post: #14

(04-03-2016 08:13 AM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  This might sound immature, but once I've been rejected by my wife it becomes a game that only ends with sex or her screaming at me while taking her pillow and going to sleep in the other room. Just keep pestering her, no one is sleeping until this gets resolved. Although at 1 to 2 times a day it sounds like you're doing pretty good, I always thought once a day was a fair balance.

Sex for me goes way beyond the physical; it's like the holy grail of female acceptance and love that I've sought all my life and so often couldn't figure out a way to get. So now I just want to gorge myself on it. It's like how black dudes who grew up in the ghetto eating out of trash cans, when they get a career and some money, insist on having the flashiest cars and biggest screen TVs possible just to remind themselves how far they've risen.

Anyway, everything ended up being okay. We had a conversation about an hour or two ago, and I agreed that I would listen to her more when she says that she's sore or her back hurts or whatever, and be sensitive to her need to wait till those symptoms subside before having sex. She reassured me that she's not malingering when she brings up physical symptoms as a reason why she doesn't want to have sex. And ultimately she gave me what I wanted, which was a promise that she'd have sex with me whenever I want. (Which means that, after listening to her, I still get to make the decision.)

She told me that I'm spoiled, and I grinned. I love being spoiled; it's why I married a Filipina this time around. I wanted an easy relationship.

Then we had great make-up sex and we both came at almost the same time. I told her that yesterday when I'd been quiet, it wasn't because I was sulking, but rather I hadn't wanted to speak because I wasn't sure what to say and didn't want to make the situation worse. She said when she gets angry, she usually stays silent too till she calms down, because she doesn't want to make a mistake.

She also told me that she didn't like yesterday when I said that if she asked for something, I wouldn't say no (as a way of saying she was treating me unfairly, compared to how I treated her); and that she didn't like when I tried to negotiate and offer to go places with her on the weekends if she would have as much sex with me as I wanted. She said that she didn't want this to be a conditional relationship, but rather one in which we both show love for the other person, and what goes around comes around.

I'm still going to start going to the gym, and I'm going to follow the advice to not ask for sex, but just start taking her, and let her be the one to object if she doesn't want it. And as mentioned, she did say she will still let me make the decision, after having taken her wishes into account. Thus, her needs are taken care of while my authority as husband remains intact (at least nominally, which sometimes is what matters most to me).

By the way, I liked the way that she initiated the reconciliation when I wasn't talking to her. She sent me this video (lyrics) to let me know how she felt. In this world, there are still women who are gentle about expressing their sadness and have the spirit of a romantic.

Post: #15

As a guy who actually games, I can't imagine asking for sex. When I want to have sex with a girl, I either pick her up and carry her to the bedroom or I grab her hand and lead her there.

I don't think I've every once asked for sex in my entire life.

Post: #16

Sex refusal is about how she feels about you overall. Its the true temperature read on your relationship. And if you are honest with yourself, you will ask yourself "how did I fuck this up." And proceed from there.

Post: #17

You have a traditional, accommodating wife who you have sex with 1-2 times per day. You should be grateful for the situation you are in. Life isn't perfect, but you seem to have it good.

You should also hit the gym for you, not based on what your wife wants. It will also help you release tension and stress.

Your desire for sexual control seems to be related to your fear that she will stray. You have been through tough times and a failed marriage. You are most likely fearful this will happen again with your present wife. Your obsession for sexual control stems from this fear.

Enjoy your life with your wife. You have a good thing going as she generally seems like she tries to please you.

Face your fear head on. It is the only way for men to live.

Post: #18

^^^ Dantes advice is great and I can't say it better given there is at least one major facet of your situation I can intimately relate to.

I think the demoralization stems from your own insecurities for sure. You cannot rely on another human being, even your own wife to make you feel good whether physically or emotionally. You need to develop independence from that so her refusal for sex will not make you feel this way.

Also, if you want control sexually, take it. From your post I get the drift that you're not. Are you going up to her to be intimate and she's "saying" no? Or is it some other type of refusal? Understanding this may help members here pinpoint the cause more specifically.

What I'm trying to get at is that women, especially LTR/marriage, get bored. If they don't get seduced, they are less likely to give it up. You wanting to make her a "sex-slave" seems to imply you don't care much for the seduction aspect. Do you think she knows that you may be visualizing her this way? Women catch on quickly to shit like this and may even see it as demeaning.

I think you may need to switch from the "I deserve sex" mentality to "I need to seduce her" mentality. It's a huge difference.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but this is my honest assessment.

Post: #19

(04-03-2016 10:24 AM)Cobra Wrote:  I think you may need to switch from the "I deserve sex" mentality to "I need to seduce her" mentality. It's a huge difference.

When you boil it down to biology its easy; if shes not pouncing on you, you have turned her off.

How did you turn her off?

Post: #20

(04-03-2016 10:27 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 10:24 AM)Cobra Wrote:  I think you may need to switch from the "I deserve sex" mentality to "I need to seduce her" mentality. It's a huge difference.

When you boil it down to biology its easy; if shes not pouncing on you, you have turned her off.

How did you turn her off?

Oh, well what happened most recently was, I got drunk Friday night; she was sober and was getting annoyed at my drunken behavior, which probably didn't set up the greatest mood for sex; but I had sex with her anyway for a long time but had to give up because the alcohol kept me from coming. Then I woke up in the middle of the night and wanted sex again because I hadn't come (and therefore couldn't fall back to sleep), so she accommodated me, and then a couple hours later I wanted more sex because it was Saturday and I love having sex twice on Saturday mornings. Finally she drew the line, saying that her pussy was sore and her back hurt. And then I made an issue of it, perhaps more because I didn't like the way she was speaking to me than because of what she actually said.

Usually the rejections come in the form of her saying "just later, hon" (which is more of a deferral) or "you're done" (i.e. we just had sex and she needs a break).

I don't think I fear her straying. It's not a behavior that Filipinas are known for. I worry more that she may someday break a promise, by cutting her hair short, or not having as many kids as I want, or whatever, because she's always telling me that she wants to do those things. With regard to seduction, usually we talk about that in terms of kissing and other stuff that gets her turned on.

I just have a fetish (dating back to the sexual starvation of my teenage years) of wanting a chick who will be a sex slave. It's one of my must-haves. I think of it as being like if anal sex were a must-have for a guy (i.e. something he needed in order to be happy); he would need to make that clear during the courtship and find a chick who's down with it. Then he would need to take care of himself and the relationship to the point that she would remain attracted to him.

You're right, my wife is pretty cool. We just took a shower and had sex again and now we're going to church.. I'm going to not get so drunk in the future, so I don't annoy her like that again..

I feel slightly ridiculous at this point. When I get angry, sometimes I lose perspective and have trouble being objective, but typing out a thread and getting responses helped me think more clearly about the situation. Thanks guys.

Post: #21

(04-03-2016 09:50 AM)Vaun Wrote:  Sex refusal is about how she feels about you overall. Its the true temperature read on your relationship. And if you are honest with yourself, you will ask yourself "how did I fuck this up." And proceed from there.

That's just about it most of the times, if it is anything about her it's usually obvious (she' s ill, on her period etc.).
If she doesn't want to have sex with you there's it has probably something to do with you (it may be something small like you overestimating your seductive powers or big like she secretly hates you). Find what it is and work on it to improve or eliminate it. And do it not for her sake but yours.

Now I believe that sex is the cornerstone of every man-woman relation , so here's my 0.02 of advice:

A) You lay it ahead as an unbreakable rule, no sex when I want=no relationship.

B) The moment you suspect she refuses sex with no real reason is the time you start dread game (YOU have to uphold the rules you set, if you don't she'll lose her respect for you). If she doesn't change next her.

C) If for some reason (cough-divorcerape-cough) you cannot end it, start looking for sex outside the relationship, if you can be discreet there will be no problem.

She disrespected your wishes first, you have an obligation to stay true to your real self and your completely natural desires.

Post: #22

Great constructive points from Cobra

The OP's mentality seems to stem from insecurity and fear. I could be wrong but this is my sense of the situation.

She isn't in fact turned off to sex. She is giving it up 1-2 times per day. This puts her in the top 1% of married women and perhaps women in general for pleasing her man.

Op, you have received some sound feedback and constructive advice. Keep us posted.

On a another note, you should consider posting in Travesty's Wife Hunting Abroad thread. Your experience looking and finding a foreign woman would be valued.

Post: #23

(04-03-2016 11:25 AM)RaymondKertezc Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 10:27 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 10:24 AM)Cobra Wrote:  I think you may need to switch from the "I deserve sex" mentality to "I need to seduce her" mentality. It's a huge difference.

When you boil it down to biology its easy; if shes not pouncing on you, you have turned her off.

How did you turn her off?

Oh, well what happened most recently was, I got drunk Friday night; she was sober and was getting annoyed at my drunken behavior, which probably didn't set up the greatest mood for sex; but I had sex with her anyway for a long time but had to give up because the alcohol kept me from coming. Then I woke up in the middle of the night and wanted sex again because I hadn't come (and therefore couldn't fall back to sleep), so she accommodated me, and then a couple hours later I wanted more sex because it was Saturday and I love having sex twice on Saturday mornings. Finally she drew the line, saying that her pussy was sore and her back hurt. And then I made an issue of it, perhaps more because I didn't like the way she was speaking to me than because of what she actually said.

Usually the rejections come in the form of her saying "just later, hon" (which is more of a deferral) or "you're done" (i.e. we just had sex and she needs a break).

I don't think I fear her straying. It's not a behavior that Filipinas are known for. I worry more that she may someday break a promise, by cutting her hair short, or not having as many kids as I want, or whatever, because she's always telling me that she wants to do those things. With regard to seduction, usually we talk about that in terms of kissing and other stuff that gets her turned on.

I just have a fetish (dating back to the sexual starvation of my teenage years) of wanting a chick who will be a sex slave. It's one of my must-haves. I think of it as being like if anal sex were a must-have for a guy (i.e. something he needed in order to be happy); he would need to make that clear during the courtship and find a chick who's down with it. Then he would need to take care of himself and the relationship to the point that she would remain attracted to him.

You're right, my wife is pretty cool. We just took a shower and had sex again and now we're going to church.. I'm going to not get so drunk in the future, so I don't annoy her like that again..

No disrespect, but I feel you may have gotten married again too quickly.

Post: #24

IMO, getting sex 1-2 times per day is already good. For my LTRs, I try to not go over 1 time per day, as I will get bored easily.

There is a huge difference between "I'm really exhausted, if you really want sex, try to make it quick please" and "no, we're not having sex!".
The former might make me consider her point of view, and try again later, depending on how I feel.
The latter should never be tolerated from a wife, and is a valid reason for you to cheat.

If you're getting "soft" rejections where you could still get the bang (like the example above), and the wife cooks, massages, etc. then you should stay with her.
If you're getting hard rejections, tell her only once that this is not tolerated and that this is a valid cause for you to cheat. Ignore the crying that comes with it.

Post: #25

The more details you give the more it is sounding like you may have a real personal issue.

You talk about repressed sexual urges/involuntary celibacy, a somewhat traumatic previous marriage, fetishes, etc. Seems like you have some real insecurities you need to work out and you are, unfortunately, taking it out on your lovely wife.

Marriage may not have been the best choice for you if you haven't worked out all these sexual quirks of yours, but you already bit the bullet (twice) so it's too late for that.

You need to find another healthy way to release this tension of yours. From your own account, it sounds like your woman is doing great by you - great by any reasonable man's standards.