Post: #1

As someone who isn't an elder statesman of game, but does have a functional understanding of it, moderate experience, some circumstances arise that bring to question the distinctions between behavior that is beta, and 'gentlemanly' behavior.

For instance, a girl asks you for help in an area of your clear expertise (even if only relative to hers), there's a clear underlying level of sexual tension already. The raw alpha mindset would want you to not give away your help at her request. But on the other side, you don't want to be a complete dick by saying no.

Or a girl you frequently encounter in a common place, like a gym or building. You check out her ass, she's noticed that and gives you lip-biting smile. Again sexual tensions underlie. You open to door for her whenever it arises or offer lend a very brief hand.

Where do you guys see the line of 'gentlemanly' and decent civil behavior and falling into the realm of beta-ness?

Post: #2

Alpha beta makes my head hurt.

Quote:Where do you guys see the line of 'gentlemanly' and decent civil behavior and falling into the realm of beta-ness?

When it doesn't get tit for tat but still continues.

Post: #3

I do little for others and they do little for me. Chivalry only applies to ladies, a mythical breed. The common everyday americunt I treat the same as I do the 'men'. Its not necessary to be a dick in order to avoid kissing ass. I would avoid over analyzing your actions altogether and doing whatever you feel like doing as long as its not being one of those two things; an ass kisser or a complete asshole.

Post: #4

You could offer to give this girl "help" at an isolated location. She might just be asking for help so you can do that.

Just always get something in return and there won't be a question of gentleman or not in your mind. It's a myth that players aren't nice guys - we just always trade our time for sex unlike dickless betas.

Post: #5

Depends.

If its: "Please help me with XYZ so I can save face and you can come over and fuck my brains out because it 'just happened.'" - That's fine.

If its: "Please help me with XYZ because I want to use you for a specific purpose and never see you again." - She can fuck off.

Generally, I don't help women unless they have something of value immediately or near-immediately they can bring to the table. Sex, social contacts, a place to crash in a different country, etc.

Women almost NEVER really appreciate generosity and remember or care to return a favor down the line. 6 months from now they will have a LTR and will barely acknowledge you when you come knocking needing a hand with something. So, if I can't get what I want right away or very soon, I won't bother. And that's assuming they have something to offer to begin with. Most of them having nothing to offer.

Post: #6

(03-30-2016 12:55 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Alpha beta makes my head hurt.

Agreed. Some guys have gone off the deep end with this stuff.

Here a rule:

If you have to question whether holding a door is alpha or beta, you're beta.

Post: #7

OP, this thread addresses a similar question and may have some answers you're seeking

Giving up your seat for women

Post: #8

TL DR - bright line

DO NOTHING FOR A GIRL YOU AREN'T BANGING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, EVER.

____________________________


You still haven't accepted the gospel of game into your life if you think for a second that doing something for a girl that you haven't slept with will get you in anyway closer to sleeping with her.

In no uncertain terms, if you do anything for a girl you haven't banged it will make it harder ,if not impossible, to do so.

Doing stuff for girls that you have not banged is the strategy of billions of barely successful betas.

This is what every guy around you is already trying to do. Most of them have more money, experience, and expertise to do so.

This strategy has failed in the past, it is failing now, and it will continue to fail.

To use modern parlance, a girl wants to do things for a high value man, or more correctly - she naturally wants to do things for a man that SHE values highly. More on that in a different post.

_____________________
Pro tip

When a girl makes herself useful to you, that's a sign that she's down for you.

But if you're an average guy, the girl going the extra mile is usually not a girl you want to bang. But the few times that she's cute, that's a one hundred dollar bill just lying on the ground.
_________________________

If what she is asking you for requires
- your time
- your money
- your professional expertise
- your muscle

Say no, or make it conditional. The condition requires her to pay up FIRST.

That's the overarching idea.

A chick that asks you to do something that isn't offering anything concrete is a user, plain and simple. You will quickly find that most chicks have very little to offer you. She lives by this game, and when you see it for what it is, it will explain a lot about their behavior.

Now in terms of game, putting P into V.

Chica - Hey Peanut, I want YOU to do X, or I want X from you, or could you help me with X?

Peanut - Is that your lame attempt to pick me up? C'mon girl, I know you've got better than that.

Ignore her request and accuse her of using that as subterfuge to get into your pants.

Game is Judo.

This will put her on defense, change the subject, and allow you to press your attack.

But

If she insists on extracting resources out of you

Go Professional and put your negotiation hat on.

"Oh you need X, I think I can give you a 4% discount"
You don't have money? What else can you offer?"

"Dinner? Cook tonight, and I'll look at your problem after"

At no point do you help without getting something.

Fuck parasites.

If she withdraws, that's fine, she was never going to fuck you, she was just going to use you. And she'll know in the future that you can't be used.

If you follow the beta strategy, the chances are infinitesimal of banging her.

And in those situations, where a bang occurs, you've set the basic dynamic of the relationship - you only get sex if you do something for her. She will want more and more from you, but give up the pussy to guys that take from her.

There's a midway strategy for intermediate and veteran players.

Conversion

Chicks go into these situations making a request knowing that it's not going to cost them anything.

Say yes, but make it cost something more than they expect but not egregiously so. When she agrees, you put her through the paces because she wrongly didn't think it would be the situation that you know it is. You're basically boiling the frog.

The Oil Change

Chica - Do you know how to change oil?
Peanut - yeah, you need a lube job?
Chica - yeah
Peanut - here is what I'll do, I'll help you do it, or I'll teach you how to do it.

So if you set this up right, and insist on her being with you under the car, filter in hand, grease on the nose.

1) grab ass
You can set a jokey frame from the beginning. And basically horseplay and physically flirt the entire time. Ping her sexuality directly.

Or

2) kismet/chick flick scenario

You can have her help, and do the "we make a good team" frame. More of a romantic move.

Or

3) skeevy professor

You can put her into student/teacher frame and create a power differential. A woman under your social/power wise taking your direction can translate into heat. (Think McDonald's assistant manager and the cashier girl)

What you cannot do is show up with your tools, crawl under her car, while she sits inside texting her fuck buddy.

As the philosopher Curtis Jackson once said

I don't know what you heard about me
But a bitch can't get a dollar out of me
No Cadillac, no perms, you can't see
That I'm a motherfucking P-I-M-P

WIA

Post: #9

I just openly tell them if they want me to do shit for them I either want a blowjob, lunch, money. Some get shocked and offended but it usually works well. You'd be surprised how many women would rather suck a cock rather than fork over some cash.

Post: #10

(03-30-2016 10:16 AM)Cataldes Wrote:  I just openly tell them if they want me to do shit for them I either want a blowjob, lunch, money. Some get shocked and offended but it usually works well. You'd be surprised how many women would rather suck a cock rather than fork over some cash.

Succinct!

Post: #11

Lots of this kind of stuff has been covered very well in this thread.

Generally, if a girl hasn't invested anything into you, then don't invest anything into her unless that is what you want to do.

If you are just Mr. Charity and like doing shit for people when they ask you then by all means, but understand women don't respect or want to fuck men that they can walk over and extract resources from without putting anything into it. Shit is transactional.

Post: #12

I think this subject is more complicated to be honest.

For instance in the book ´influence´ by Cialdini, praised here on the forum many times, it is stated that people are more eager to do things for you when you first help them. Offcourse I agree that women are not as susceptible to this as men, especially in entitlement rich places like the West, but it still plays a part.

In many places in the world, women basically have no resources to go out on a weekly basis and I´ve found that me being the one paying the drinks/entry fee as is common and pretty much obligatory in these countries, and definitly helps provide a certain feeling of debt with the girls, often paid by sex.

In some cases if the guy is ugly then it develops into full blown provider/sugar daddy situations. In other cases when the girl has attraction towards the guy it just seems to smoothen the process. But, atleast in these countries (SA, Africa, ...), if you refuse to pay drinks/entrance/help out with small stuff, you will just be seen as a complete dick. Women will not be interested in you.

Differences in society...they matter.

Post: #13

(03-30-2016 12:31 AM)PeanutoftheNight Wrote:  For instance, a girl asks you for help in an area of your clear expertise (even if only relative to hers), there's a clear underlying level of sexual tension already. The raw alpha mindset would want you to not give away your help at her request. But on the other side, you don't want to be a complete dick by saying no.

I don't think the "raw alpha mindset" does particularly well in reality on a consistent basis. The truth is that you'd need somewhat of a hybrid approach to achieve best results. Maybe some mixed DHV banter or situational backhanded compliments followed with solid, confident advice which isn't bullshit, and further validates you as an expert.

Of course, if your mind is in a total push-pull and you can't even think of what to say, I'll admit it's probably best to be a dick.

Post: #14

I will do for a girl as much as she can do for me, as long as I stay comfortable with it.

If I meet a girl for the first time, she will pay for her share of the drinks, or the food. She didn't give me anything, so she gets nothing. After a very nice bang, she is likely to drink for free. I have one of my plates that gives a very nice BJ everytime and massage me during 1 hour everytime I fuck her. We go out sometimes, and I pay for her everytime. I learned that one of the keys to harem management is treating the girls well instead of just pumping & dumping (except for single moms), and they are likely to always give better sex.

Same treatment when it comes to services that I have expertize in. I will help her if I got something from her, and it doesn't need to be money. A LMR-free notch is enough.

Someone mentioned giving your seat to a woman: I never do that. Except if she's pregnant / elderly / injured. Again, if she is on my rotation and gives good sex, then yes, I'll let her sit down if only 1 seat is available.


And besides, I always felt that giving your seat to older people is a way to tell them that they look old, which is saddening for them. If you let them stand up, you are letting know that they are still young.

Post: #15

(03-30-2016 10:42 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  I think this subject is more complicated to be honest.

For instance in the book ´influence´ by Cialdini, praised here on the forum many times, it is stated that people are more eager to do things for you when you first help them. Offcourse I agree that women are not as susceptible to this as men, especially in entitlement rich places like the West, but it still plays a part.

In many places in the world, women basically have no resources to go out on a weekly basis and I´ve found that me being the one paying the drinks/entry fee as is common and pretty much obligatory in these countries, and definitly helps provide a certain feeling of debt with the girls, often paid by sex.

In some cases if the guy is ugly then it develops into full blown provider/sugar daddy situations. In other cases when the girl has attraction towards the guy it just seems to smoothen the process. But, atleast in these countries (SA, Africa, ...), if you refuse to pay drinks/entrance/help out with small stuff, you will just be seen as a complete dick. Women will not be interested in you.

Differences in society...they matter.

I've often heard the same thing said about girls in Latin America (as well as SEA), and yet every time I've been out in these countries I see lots of groups of single girls that seem to have plenty of money to go out.

Post: #16

There is no default "line". It's a personal thing for me and everything depends on my relationship with that person. For some I'd do more than for others. Simple as that.

Post: #17

I've got something like this going on now with a girl who I hooked up with last summer. She tried to cut off the physical relationship after a couple bangs cause she had a BF then, and thought we could be friends. We kept in light contact without meeting every 3-4 weeks until she started asking for help with a professional thing where I had a connection- Clearly to try and initiate more contact which would lead back to the physical in a way that pleased her hamster with plausible deniability. It's amazing how automatically a girls' lizard brain can work.

I started banging her again in December- about once a week, and waited til a few weeks ago to follow through with the professional favor- which only amounted to a couple text messages and emails on my part. Before I did it I told her to remind me. Which took a another week and some re-organizing on her end anyway.
Lesson there- if it's something where you're helping them out that involves other factors/variables/people, make sure everything's straight before going ahead and doing anything. Had I not done this I would've been making the connection wait for my response and looked like a real schmuck- all because of a woman's lack of foresight and organization.

Sure, I could've done the favor much quicker and certainly would have pre-redpill. Or even let myself get friend zoned. But then I wouldn't be having sex with her.
Thanks game.

Post: #18

(03-30-2016 01:18 PM)Kieran Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 10:42 AM)rottenapple Wrote:  In some cases if the guy is ugly then it develops into full blown provider/sugar daddy situations. In other cases when the girl has attraction towards the guy it just seems to smoothen the process. But, atleast in these countries (SA, Africa, ...), if you refuse to pay drinks/entrance/help out with small stuff, you will just be seen as a complete dick. Women will not be interested in you.

Differences in society...they matter.

I've often heard the same thing said about girls in Latin America (as well as SEA), and yet every time I've been out in these countries I see lots of groups of single girls that seem to have plenty of money to go out.

Its funny how when reality seems to break theory, people still cling to theory.

WIA