Post: #1

I was on a date recently and my escalations were being received very well. At least that what I thought. For example, when I told her how her tights were really tight and started touching them, she said my jeans were tight and she started touching them. So I kept escalating and at one point I was tickling her on her belly. That's when we had a strange conversation:
Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.
Me: Alright fair enough.
Her: I think I'm gonna leave now.
Me: What? Why? Stay! Have another drink!
Her: Oh ok, isn't it going to be awkward now?
Me: Oh no it won't.

After this point we just had a friendly chat for a while. I didn't try any escalation again (except at the very end). At one point I just asked her why she'd suddenly freaked out, and she said she was seeing a guy and my escalations started to make her feel guilty.

I'm trying to find a lesson here but not sure exactly what it is. I can think of a few interpretations of what happened. What do you guys think?

1) My escalations were not really being well received and I read her completely incorrectly. I kept escalating more and more assuming she was liking it until she had had enough of it.

2) She was liking all of it, and the "I'm not really feeling it" line was actually a shit test, which I failed by showing concern. I should have probably just brushed it off by saying something like, "Yeah I can see that, this tickling is not working on you at all!" Honestly, being a newbie and all I do usually assume that she's not attracted to me and if she does anything to confirm that belief, I freak out.

3) What she said was actually true. She is seeing a guy and she did start feeling guilty. But in that case, perhaps I could've done something to get her in bed anyway. After all she came out with me and spent several hours in spite of having a boyfriend.

Post: #2

The escalations were successful. The reason why she did what she did and said what she said was because she was trying to prove to herself that she was a good girl and not a slut. She was starting to touch you and that probably got her tingling. Then, she immediately felt guilty because she started thinking about the other guy she is seeing. The anti-slut defense came screaming in before you were able to escalate any further.

She was definitely buying what you were selling. Stuff like this happens all the time when girls start developing feelings over more than one guy.

It was only a shit test. Just brush it off and act like it's not an issue, and continue the escalation.

Post: #3

She was most likely just feeling guilty bc she was enjoying it and was starting to consider taking it to the next level. I might of calm her down and then tried to move things on again once she had relaxed a bit.

Post: #4

(03-01-2016 08:35 PM)future Wrote:  Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.
Me: Alright fair enough.
Her: I think I'm gonna leave now.
Me: What? Why? Stay! Have another drink!
Her: Oh ok, isn't it going to be awkward now?
Me: Oh no it won't.

She wast shit testing you and you failed. By pleading with her to stay you gave her complete control over the situation. Always be willing to lose the girl at any time. Next time a girl threatens to leave, have a care free attitude, say something snarky like 'bitch you better pay for those drinks before you bounce'. Or if in doubt, don't say anything at all. Give her a disinterested look of disgust and go cold on her. Turn away. When she sees that you genuinely don't care if she leaves, she'll want to stay. Then she'll seek your approval.

Post: #5

(03-01-2016 08:35 PM)future Wrote:  Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.

This is not a "shit test." No girl goes out of her way to discourage a guy she likes from making advances. If you ever hear anything like this again, do both of you a favor and end the date as soon as possible.

(03-01-2016 08:35 PM)future Wrote:  At one point I just asked her why she'd suddenly freaked out, and she said she was seeing a guy and my escalations started to make her feel guilty.

This was simply more polite and less confrontational than her admitting she finds you unattractive.

Look, if a chick is interested, she WILL let you know. Every girl I've subsequently banged has sent me an unsolicited text after the first date. I can't tell you how many dates I've had who complied with every advance I made, spent upwards of 3-4 hours with me, ended with a makeout, who I didn't land a second date with. Having everything go smoothly on the first date is necessary but not sufficient. Having a girl tell you to your face she's "not feeling it" is a blatant rejection. Don't waste anymore mental energy on this girl. Move on.

Post: #6

If a girls going to cheat it won't be with a man 'lucky' to have her. It was a test to see if you're above the man she's with. You showed her that you were not with your pleading.

Truth be told I'd call the girl out in that situation. Not in moral terms but I'd say something like "interesting.. put what you're feeling right now into words." Gets you the info you need faster and then you can figure out if you're going to help this girl forget her man or boot her out the door.

Post: #7

I love confronting girls on their BS.

I always drop a "what's up, let's be real, you know I don't bullshit and I'm up front"

She'll start hamstering when she knows the curtain got dropped.

She wasn't feeling it, it's only happened to me twice in the last year, one was the "omg I'm not a slut anymore epiphany (topless on top of me) - the other was "I want to go home (she barely had one foot into my room)" - which I called her about it on the drive home - still got a made out and a text back that night saying she had fun - deleted her number.

Typically it might happen after sex, talking about how dating other guys were boring.

OR more in your case you might talk about dates or how she was on a date a few days ago, which I'll translate into a "oh so you're a serial dater" neg.

Thing is, you need to have a rock solid frame and game to get through that LMR and conversation. I do it in a serious but cocky sarcastic tone, that's my style.

She might eject, let her, she might stay and talk more.

If she feels guilty, it means you didn't do a good job with comfort game, didn't dig more on intel with her, and lost out on that shit test. In the end, hate to say, you might not of been worthy cheating on.

Post: #8

(03-01-2016 08:35 PM)future Wrote:  I was on a date recently and my escalations were being received very well. At least that what I thought. For example, when I told her how her tights were really tight and started touching them, she said my jeans were tight and she started touching them. So I kept escalating and at one point I was tickling her on her belly. That's when we had a strange conversation:

Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.
Me: Alright fair enough.
Her: I think I'm gonna leave now.
Me: What? Why? Stay! Have another drink!

Not strange at all. She wasn't feeling it, for whatever reason, it's up to you if you care enough to spin your wheels and try to figure out if you did anything obviously "wrong", or just charge it to the game and women's fickleness.

She was honest with you (at least in regards to what she was feeling _at that moment_) and didn't want either of you to waste any more time. Sounds like she might not have been an entirely terrible person. I've met plenty of "single" girls who likely weren't feeling it five minutes into the date, but will gladly chat and waste my time and have me entertain them for hours.

The moment you said the last line it was over forever. If that's what you want to say, and she decides to stay around, fine. Talk about anything you want. Practice your best lines, talk about quantum mechanics, whatever.

But you're never getting laid with her.

Anytime a woman says "I think I'd better go" there's usually only one action that makes any sense: smile and nod and say "Ok, have a pleasant evening."

Post: #9

Quote:After this point we just had a friendly chat for a while. I didn't try any escalation again (except at the very end). At one point I just asked her why she'd suddenly freaked out, and she said she was seeing a guy and my escalations started to make her feel guilty.

That part was kind of painful to read, man.

Here's how it should have gone:

Quote:Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.
Me: .

Never indulge her bullshit like that. If' they're not feeling it, fine. But you should never let them stick around and praddle on about that kind of crap.

Simply put:

Post: #10

(03-02-2016 12:52 AM)Delta Wrote:  Look, if a chick is interested, she WILL let you know. [...] Don't waste anymore mental energy on this girl. Move on.

I 100% agree with Delta.
You ain't feelin it? Lataa Bitch!

Post: #11

Just to be clear, I'm not asking for advice on how to fix things with this specific girl. I'm just trying to learn from my mistakes.

Here's what I got so far:

1) It may or may not have been a shit test. In any case, my response to it was bad. I should've either brushed it off, or just let her leave.
2) I may not have built enough comfort during the escalation.

I clearly lost attraction at some point. Just trying to identify what that point was.

Maybe my escalation was awkward or lacked comfort, and even though it looked like she was responding well, she wasn't really liking it. Or maybe I lost attraction when I responded to her "I'm not feeling it". I don't know!

I guess next time I'm on a date I'll try both!

Post: #12

Her: Actually, I should make it clear, I'm not really feeling it.
You: Hm.
(and continue whatever you are doing).

Women work with feelings, not logic. Never try to use logic to reasonate a girl. Simply deflect the subject like that to avoid making her start thinking too much.

If you try the above, and she really doesn't feel it, then make sure to show her the door.

Something you should always remember is "never take shit from a girl". No matter who the girl is. It a girl gets angry at you, starts nagging you, etc. do not answer her. Just show her the door.

Post: #13

(03-02-2016 10:36 PM)future Wrote:  Here's what I got so far:

1) It may or may not have been a shit test.

For the love of god, no. It was rejection, in the most blatant form I've ever heard of.

(03-02-2016 10:36 PM)future Wrote:  In any case, my response to it was bad. I should've either brushed it off, or just let her leave.

Correct. If a girl says something MILDLY discouraging, you brush it off. It's great that you've learned from the experience. Just know that this particular case was a lost cause regardless of your response.

(03-02-2016 10:36 PM)future Wrote:  2) I may not have built enough comfort during the escalation.

(03-02-2016 10:36 PM)future Wrote:  Maybe my escalation was awkward or lacked comfort...

It's possible, but don't automatically assume that your escalation is what blew it. Chances are she just wasn't into you on a fundamental level. It happens, all the time. As you date more you'll come to realize and accept that.

(03-02-2016 10:36 PM)future Wrote:  Or maybe I lost attraction when I responded to her "I'm not feeling it".

This implies that you had attraction when she said she's "not feeling it," which is nonsensical.

You sound like you've been reading a lot of sleazy commercial PUA material that touts the "one weird tip to make you irresistible to her every time!" Never fully trust someone who's trying to sell you something. Reality isn't that simple. Good game certainly improves your odds, but some girls still just won't be into you regardless of the tactics you use. Get used to it.

Post: #14

It's very difficult to help you work on this OP when you've left out most of the timeline. A chick is not just rejecting you based on one verbal exchange. Escalation is "going for the sale", but its chance of success depends equally on the product that was presented leading up to that. In that example, yes just keep your reactions stoic. I don't really know how to respond specifically to a 'girl' openly saying direct shit like "I'm not feeling it" though, I can't see your avatar flag on mobile but I'm guessing you live somewhere like America.

Post: #15

(03-03-2016 01:24 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  It's very difficult to help you work on this OP when you've left out most of the timeline.

Good point!

I approached her at a mall in the evening. The approach went great so we went for coffee right away. Chatted for about an hour and asked her to come with me for a drink. She readily agreed. We were at the bar for almost three hours. Two hours in she dropped the not feeling it line.

So my understanding is that she liked me at least until she came to the bar, otherwise she could've just declined my invitation. And then I fucked it up somewhere.

(03-03-2016 01:24 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  I can't see your avatar flag on mobile but I'm guessing you live somewhere like America.

I live in Canada.

Post: #16

(03-03-2016 01:24 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  It's very difficult to help you work on this OP when you've left out most of the timeline.

I agree with this and don't understand how some guys are so sure about their conclusions when we knew almost nothing about this situation. We didn't know if you had been on multiple dates with this girl before and the escalation was happening in your bedroom or if you just met her that day and the escalation was happening in public.

Your last comment suggests you approached her that day, insta-date, and the escalation happened at a bar. If so, the only mistakes I see are that you shouldn't have pleaded with her to stay and your escalation wasn't calibrated well. Her response was mostly anti-slut defense and not blatant rejection.

It is still almost impossible to suggest how you should have escalated without knowing much more about the situation. Maybe you should have pulled her home before escalating. Maybe you should have taken her number and waited for another day before starting to escalate. Maybe you never had a chance because she has a boyfriend. Maybe you should have waited a few minutes and started escalating again.

Post: #17

(03-01-2016 08:35 PM)future Wrote:  At one point I just asked her why she'd suddenly freaked out, and she said she was seeing a guy and my escalations started to make her feel guilty.

I'm trying to find a lesson here but not sure exactly what it is. I can think of a few interpretations of what happened. What do you guys think?

She agreed to go on a date with you and freaked out when you made a move? Doesn't matter if it was awkward or not. You made your move and from what you wrote she was surprised and by that and got uncomfortable. That thing alone tells me that you probably didn't convey your intentions properly before the date. My rationale is that a girl you ask out should fully expect some sort of escalation from a guy she goes on a date with.

Maybe you did everything right earlier and this was just some sort of random anomaly or she was weird girl, who really knows, but my first guess is such reactions result from unclear expectations due to lack of intent conveyed earlier.

Post: #18

I think XXL could be correct. I also think she could have known his intentions but she had plausible deniability since he wasn't explicit enough with his intentions. So she was enjoying the attention of a guy who was confident enough to approach her and immediately take her out on a date but she knew nothing would happen. TL;DR she was attention whoring.

There seems to be a fine line between coming on too strong when trying to move quickly with a girl you have just met and risking being led on by a girl who has a boyfriend by not being explicit with your intentions and escalating quickly. I've had similar situations happen many times at bars and clubs.

XXL (or anyone) - how do you suggest moving very quickly in these situations without coming on too strong?

Post: #19

Personally I am against coming off too strong just to screen for SNL or to highlight how ballsy and dominant you are. I think your intentions should be felt just ENOUGH. I mean you feel different when you talk to a girl you like, you look at her differently, you're more engaged in general. Women can sense that very well.

When a girl feels it too and enjoys it you give her a chance to contribute something. You try to lead and see if she follows. You can offer to sit down with you on a couch nearby or give her your elbow to grab to walk few steps together. They called it compliance test back in the day. Of course she might object at first and play her dramatic role of being hard to get. That's OK as long as she's engaged and gives in eventually. If she rejects your every attempt to take that interaction somewhere then she's not even potentially interested in you. You cut her out. That's how I see it.

Post: #20

(03-03-2016 11:42 AM)XXL Wrote:  My rationale is that a girl you ask out should fully expect some sort of escalation from a guy she goes on a date with.

Yeah, and there have been plenty of girls who have accepted my invitation to a date - I certainly don't always expect sex on the first date, but they then sit six feet away from me with their legs crossed away and talk at me like I'm at an interview for IBM.

They never hear from me again, because that's not really a "date." The "I don't know you well enough to have you touch me" line is phony baloney.

It's just the usual hard-sell manipulation. "Do you see how lovely and attractive I am? I've been known to have sex from time to time, once I've been on enough dates and have really made that 'connection.' Just agree to sign on the dotted line and all this could be yours..."

Never do this with a girl who is actually feeling you, but if she wants to play hardball just try rambling about the other great dates you've been on. "Yeah, online dating has been working pretty great for me! Meet all sorts of interesting people..."

She'll eject her own ass out

Post: #21

Sometimes you've gotta know when to walk

Post: #22

(03-03-2016 11:38 AM)birthday cat Wrote:  

(03-03-2016 01:24 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  It's very difficult to help you work on this OP when you've left out most of the timeline.

I agree with this and don't understand how some guys are so sure about their conclusions when we knew almost nothing about this situation. We didn't know if you had been on multiple dates with this girl before and the escalation was happening in your bedroom or if you just met her that day and the escalation was happening in public.

Exactly. Thank you.

(03-03-2016 11:42 AM)XXL Wrote:  That thing alone tells me that you probably didn't convey your intentions properly before the date.

(03-03-2016 12:13 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  I also think she could have known his intentions but she had plausible deniability since he wasn't explicit enough with his intentions.

I think I'd made my intensions quite explicit. I'd opened her direct with a "I thought you were cute" line. Also, this is how I'd asked her to come for a drink:

She'd mentioned a couple of times that she was an impulsive girl. So I asked
Me: Do you want to do something impulsive right now?
Her: What's your proposal?
Me: I'll give you a few options. Option 1: we go for a few drinks and then make out.
Her: I'll pass that one.
Me: Option 2: we make out right now.
Her: I'll pass that one too. (smiling and giggling)
Me: Alright, option 3: we get a few drinks and we'll see.
Her: Sure, let's do that!

May be this was too forward, I don't know. But I don't think there was any ambiguity about my intentions.

The more I think about it the more I'm starting to believe that I creeped her out with my aggressive escalations. I do have a tendency to try to escalate quickly. For example, on a different date with a different girl, I took her shopping for a shirt for me, and I attempted to make out with her in the trial room. This was within 45 mins of meeting her. She never replied to my texts after the date.

I'm going to try to tone down my escalations a bit in the next few dates and see what happens.

Post: #23

I'd avoid adding the "and then make out."
It's implied. Sublety is a turn on for girls and let's them rationalize things better, anything else is supererogatory

Post: #24

(03-03-2016 04:05 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  Yeah, and there have been plenty of girls who have accepted my invitation to a date - I certainly don't always expect sex on the first date, but they then sit six feet away from me with their legs crossed away and talk at me like I'm at an interview for IBM.

I encounter this a lot as well. The way they dress usually conveys the same attitude too. I get that girls need to find the right balance between slutty and asexual, overdressing and underdressing. But the girls I meet just about always err on the side of asexual and underdressing. Summer or winter, every inch of their body is covered up. Literally one time in all my dating career the girl wore a cute sundress, and the second I saw her I almost lost my shit with how happy/excited I was.

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread a bit.