(02-21-2017 01:19 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I'm starting to think most of the issues we have in Canada have to do with the politics, culture, and economics of Ontario. How correct am I with this assumption?

Let's not forget that we have it pretty damn good in Canada as a whole (relative to most of the world). But it's still about making the most of it. I'm tired of being in the GTA, so I'm considering moving elsewhere to another province and major city.

I'm all ears to suggestions.

I can only comment on Manitoba. Winnipeg is either hipsters, native gangs or biker gangs in the bad areas. Its still liveable though and a unique place. The rest of Manitoba is conservative christian. Rural manitoba was settled by quaker/mennonite types way back when and their families continue on in the christian tradition.

Manitoba/winnepeg is also deceptive that its got easy access to America. Minneapolis is as close as any other major canadian city, and flights out of winnipeg are direct to many bigger US destinations.

Weather wise, very cold winters but sunny summers.

(02-21-2017 01:19 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I'm starting to think most of the issues we have in Canada have to do with the politics, culture, and economics of Ontario. How correct am I with this assumption?

Let's not forget that we have it pretty damn good in Canada as a whole (relative to most of the world). But it's still about making the most of it. I'm tired of being in the GTA, so I'm considering moving elsewhere to another province and major city.

I'm all ears to suggestions.

There is also Quebec dragging us down and still lots of issues about our rotting economy.

Canada we have limited options if you like the city life. Big cities with lots of buzz and activity you have three options (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto), four if you know some French with Montreal.

All have big flaws that are unique to each city. When I try to picture where I see myself in 10 years, I struggle with it. I really can't see myself in any of these places, but as a Canadian, I have to keep that reality open.

Austin, Texas is apparently becoming the new tech hub of the USA. Andrew Torba, founder of Gab.ai, just moved his family there for this reason. He needed to get out of Silicon Valley since his audacious upstart company is pissing off the established tech community in the SF area.

I would add Quebec City to Kosko's list, but French language skill is essential there. America is still my goal, but if I had to pick a city in Canada to live in... it would be this one. Quebec City is definitely top of the food chain in Canada's socialist economic scheme. And the women... must be experienced to be appreciated.

(02-21-2017 03:31 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  Austin, Texas is apparently becoming the new tech hub of the USA. Andrew Torba, founder of Gab.ai, just moved his family there for this reason. He needed to get out of Silicon Valley since his audacious upstart company is pissing off the established tech community in the SF area.

I would add Quebec City to Kosko's list, but French language skill is essential there. America is still my goal, but if I had to pick a city in Canada to live in... it would be this one. Quebec City is definitely top of the food chain in Canada's socialist economic scheme. And the women... must be experienced to be appreciated.

I just spent a day in Quebec City for a job interview, too bad the work isn't there though, its for a ten year job near Oshawa, which apparently sucks but it's probably better than most of the shit holes I've worked in such as Fort McMurray, Estevan and Prince George. New Brunswick (no Funswick) has to be the most boring place I've ever been.

Canada is just too damn big and empty, there's some really nice places in the country far from the big cities like Cape Breton, PEI, Gaspesie, Kenora, etc but the problem is that they're in the middle of nowhere and unless you really love the small town life and nature activities, you'll get really bored. The problem with the big cities, especially Vancouver and Toronto is that the price of real estate has gone up so much that unless you make 100K+ then you're not going to have much money for anything else.

Alberta is going to be under performing for a few more years, until we get rid of the NDP and oil goes up to over $60-70/barrel, Calgary is really hurting, Edmonton less so but the place isn't what it was during the boom. For me, BC is still by far the best, especially the Fraser Valley, Okanagan and some spots on Vancouver Island but again, the wages aren't great and BC (Bring Cash) can be very expensive for buying a house.

The issue with Canada is that we need to get off the resources crackpipe. Resources will always be there and be a key part of the Canadian economy but to tie the whole of Canada to resources is long run insanity with fluctuations in global markets. When times are good the poorer provinces get more transfer payments leaving the wealthier provinces worse off, and in bad times everything goes to shit.

More emphasis needs to be made in tech, greentech, clean energy and tech assisted manufacturing as we are not competing with the 3rd world on cost. The best and brightest will keep leaving south for the US and under the current trajectory there is no long term solution.

A lot of the shit we complain about is fine if we have the money to spend in a decent economy. When times aren't great like now, all the truths are revealed.

(02-21-2017 03:53 PM)jj90 Wrote:  The issue with Canada is that we need to get off the resources crackpipe. Resources will always be there and be a key part of the Canadian economy but to tie the whole of Canada to resources is long run insanity with fluctuations in global markets. When times are good the poorer provinces get more transfer payments leaving the wealthier provinces worse off, and in bad times everything goes to shit.

More emphasis needs to be made in tech, greentech, clean energy and tech assisted manufacturing as we are not competing with the 3rd world on cost. The best and brightest will keep leaving south for the US and under the current trajectory there is no long term solution.

A lot of the shit we complain about is fine if we have the money to spend in a decent economy. When times aren't great like now, all the truths are revealed.

Canada has a pretty shitty track record when it comes to supporting our high tech industries, apparently RIM (blackberry) has zero market share now and Nortel was an epic fuck up that apparently shit the bed due to Chinese espionage.

(02-21-2017 03:31 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  Austin, Texas is apparently becoming the new tech hub of the USA. Andrew Torba, founder of Gab.ai, just moved his family there for this reason. He needed to get out of Silicon Valley since his audacious upstart company is pissing off the established tech community in the SF area.

I would add Quebec City to Kosko's list, but French language skill is essential there. America is still my goal, but if I had to pick a city in Canada to live in... it would be this one. Quebec City is definitely top of the food chain in Canada's socialist economic scheme. And the women... must be experienced to be appreciated.

Quebec City is a bit too insular. I'd recommend Sherbrooke instead. Beautiful area with a mix of nice farmland and greenery, milder weather (relative to Q.C.), great skiing, outdoor fun, good food, anglo-friendly locals with little in terms of language hangups and a sizeable anglo minority, small well-integrated immigrant community, fairly dynamic if a bit small economy, affordable housing/acreage (except for waterfront lots on big lakes).

It's on the small side, about half the size of Quebec City, but it's practically a suburb of Montreal, and only 4hrs from Boston for your big city or summer ocean fix. Lots of great towns in the area like North Hatley,
Knowlton or Magog. Best area in the Province of Quebec, especially for anglophones.



You can stay in this Abbey and hang out with the monks of St Benoit for a short retreat, $60/day for full room and board (book way ahead esp. for the summer season)

(02-21-2017 05:08 PM)911 Wrote:  Quebec City is a bit too insular.

Agree 100%. As an anglo, you have to have the audacity of Rowdy Roddy Piper in the cult classic, "Hell Comes to Frogtown" if you're going to have a chance at pulling off living among the aliens on their home planet. But if you can persevere... the rewards are well worth it. The first time I heard a French chick scream "OUI!" in bed it was before I was fully bilingual and I kept thinking, "Why the fuck is she saying 'we'?" Then I clued in and the rest is history. Nothing beats running game in French in an intentionally exaggerated anglo accent and watching the Frenchies melt and tell you that your accent is "très jolie" (very pretty). Once you have achieved this, Frogtown is your oyster.

(02-21-2017 05:32 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 05:08 PM)911 Wrote:  Quebec City is a bit too insular.

Agree 100%. As an anglo, you have to have the audacity of Rowdy Roddy Piper in the cult classic, "Hell Comes to Frogtown" if you're going to have a chance at pulling off living among the aliens on their home planet. But if you can persevere... the rewards are well worth it. The first time I heard a French chick scream "OUI!" in bed it was before I was fully bilingual and I kept thinking, "Why the fuck is she saying 'we'?" Then I clued in and the rest is history. Nothing beats running game in French in an intentionally exaggerated anglo accent and watching the Frenchies melt and tell you that your accent is "très jolie" (very pretty). Once you have achieved this, Frogtown is your oyster.

You're right. Anytime I'm ever in Montreal and I use my French, people go crazy, especially after I tell them I'm from Chicago. They can't believe an American can speak French so well. Even when I use an atrocious South Side accent ( think of a guy in "da Bears" Saturday Night Live skit speaking French). If I did that in Paris though, oh man, I don't even want to know what the Frenchies there would do to me.

I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Holy crap, from the Wikipedia article on Sherbrooke:

Quote:There are eight institutions educating 40,000 students... The proportion of university students is 10.32 students per 100 inhabitants. In proportion to its population, Sherbrooke has the largest concentration of students in Quebec.

Time for me to take a road trip!

It is interesting to read how many of us (especially those based in Ontario) are agonizing on where to live long-term in this country. I thought I was the only one.

I keep thinking about moving to Quebec City. I really like what the city has to offer (European lifestyle, beautiful old city, walkable central core, Quebecois girls, much lower cost of living than in Ontario, good nightlife and coffee shops). You are also still close enough to Montreal to be able to catch international flights abroad. I'm an anglo, but a fluently bilingual one so I don't think the adjustment would be too difficult. I'm planning to spend a week there once the weather warms up to investigate further. But now I am curious about Sherbrooke too, ha!

With every passing month I see less and less reason to stay in Ontario. The cost of everything (rent/housing, car insurance, hydro, groceries, transit) keeps going up, it's becoming more and more difficult to build up my savings at a rate that I would like. I make a decent wage but my quality of life is in decline due to increasing costs.

I think Nascimento's observation is on point, the culture and social climate isn't getting any better. The politics are awful too.

I've lived abroad for extended periods but I don't think permanent expatriation is the answer for me. There are still things I like about Canada. It is stable and has a lot of practicalities that would be tough (and possibly foolish for me) to give up for good. I will need to find the best place in this country to put down some roots and enjoy a lifestyle that meshes with my personality.

(02-21-2017 06:07 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Take a road trip to Montreal and Quebec City this summer!

(02-21-2017 06:45 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:07 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Take a road trip to Montreal and Quebec City this summer!

Let me know if you are going. Maybe we can arrange a meetup.

(02-21-2017 06:44 PM)Nemausus Wrote:  I've lived abroad for extended periods but I don't think permanent expatriation is the answer for me. There are still things I like about Canada. It is stable and has a lot of practicalities that would be tough (and possibly foolish for me) to give up for good. I will need to find the best place in this country to put down some roots and enjoy a lifestyle that meshes with my personality.

Similar situation, very similar thoughts. Despite some cons, to get upset with a living in Canada is unreasonable. I've spent some time abroad recently and will continue to do so in the future, but I still see Canada as the #1 place to be, personally. Now if I also had US citizenship it would be debatable, especially since it's in good hands for the next 8 years. But even then Canada has its upsides and is in no way a losing proposition.

(02-21-2017 06:45 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:07 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Take a road trip to Montreal and Quebec City this summer!

It's way overdue, I know. Still have to confirm what I'll be doing and where but it's in the cards for sure.

Nacimento, you're still really young so showing up in any random city or town with a piece of shit car and $1000 isn't really a big deal like it would be if I was that broke. It depends what you're looking for but if you want to chase pussy then the government cities are a safe bet (Victoria, Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax) they all have concentrated down towns and tons of beaver. I would add St John's and Moncton to that list, both smaller cities but each are fun spots (although I haven't been to St John's). I lived in Sherbrooke for four months twelve years ago and it is a really nice city, Rue Wellington is the place to party there.

There's some cool little towns where young people flock to from all over and they are all about getting wasted, fucking anything that walks and doing outdoor stuff. This would include: Banff, Lake Louise (Lake Disease, STD capital of Canada!), Jasper, Whistler and Tofino, I'm sure Mont Tremblant in Quebec would fall into that category too but I haven't been.

The big three (Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal) obviously have the most action and some of the best job markets but as mentioned before, the cost of living can be a killer.

And finally we have the industrial shit holes that I often find myself in, they're decent places to go for a few months but you don't want to stay long term because you'll go insane and develop some kind of booze/drug problem. Edmonton is a decent city and big enough that you won't die of boredom but its still very industrial, a friend once described Etown as "one big truck stop." I personally wouldn't live anywhere in either Saskatchewan or Manitoba, neither province has anything that Alberta doesn't already have. I've been to Regina, Saskatoon and Brandon, Manitoba, all sucked balls and were full of cowboys and Indians.

As we talked about before, if I could go back to when I was a late teen or early 20s, I would probably take some type of hospital training like X-ray or sonography (they make about $80K+) and go live in a small city on Vancouver Island or something, there's hospitals everywhere.

Thanks man. Yet another reminder that there's much more to Canada than the GTA and outskirts within Ontario which I've gotten too comfortable in. There's much to see, and different routes to explore. Not just in the literal sense, but also career wise.

I checked off some big items on my list over the past couple of years, namely having to do with being abroad, but I've also used them as an excuse to delay some big decisions. I'm finally ready to transition from what I had been doing for work as soon as I get back to Canada which is very soon. I've narrowed down my options and I have a handful to choose from, so it's going to come down to trial and error. But I'm optimistic about it.

(02-21-2017 06:53 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:45 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:07 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Take a road trip to Montreal and Quebec City this summer!

Let me know if you are going. Maybe we can arrange a meetup.

Likewise. If you're after college bootie though, keep in mind that school is out by mid-may, and the kids won't stick around.

(02-21-2017 03:53 PM)jj90 Wrote:  The issue with Canada is that we need to get off the resources crackpipe. Resources will always be there and be a key part of the Canadian economy but to tie the whole of Canada to resources is long run insanity with fluctuations in global markets. When times are good the poorer provinces get more transfer payments leaving the wealthier provinces worse off, and in bad times everything goes to shit.

More emphasis needs to be made in tech, greentech, clean energy and tech assisted manufacturing as we are not competing with the 3rd world on cost. The best and brightest will keep leaving south for the US and under the current trajectory there is no long term solution.

A lot of the shit we complain about is fine if we have the money to spend in a decent economy. When times aren't great like now, all the truths are revealed.

What.

Thats like saying that Saudi Arabia needs to diversify and has no future unless it gets out of the oil business.

Canada's resource problem is that it gives it away for free. The idiots inside the government have no idea how much the resources are worth and so give away resource leases for barely any royalties.

Then, on top of it all they just let it flow out of the country in raw form. When unions were strong they were smart enough to lobby that resource extraction needed some kind of processing in Canada. Mandating that logs for example, needed to be turned into lumber before they left canada meant sawmill jobs in Canada, but no longer in some provinces.

Imagine if Alberta mandated that all oil had to be refined before it left the province? Yuuge jobs. You'd think the current socialists in power there would come up with a similar idea, but no.

Canada needs to stop being such a little bitch about how it sells its resources, thats the solution, not green energy and IT.

Norway mandates a 51% royalty on foreign oil companies IIRC. Qaddafi in Libya set up a royalty scale of 20%, and after oil companies set up a huge infrastructure in his country, jacked up the rate all the way up to 75%. I guess that's one of the reason he was toast.

What are Canada's oil royalty rates on average?

(02-21-2017 08:09 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  When unions were strong they were smart enough to lobby that resource extraction needed some kind of processing in Canada. Mandating that logs for example, needed to be turned into lumber before they left canada meant sawmill jobs in Canada, but no longer in some provinces.

Imagine if Alberta mandated that all oil had to be refined before it left the province? Yuuge jobs. You'd think the current socialists in power there would come up with a similar idea, but no.

Canada needs to stop being such a little bitch about how it sells its resources, thats the solution, not green energy and IT.

Lucid analysis as always Dr. Howard. This reminds me of one of Canada's economic heroes that I learned about in school, K. C. Irving and his "vertical integration" of his oil business.

Quote:Many of the components of the Irving Group of Companies were established or acquired by K.C. Irving during his period of active entrepreneurship between the 1920s and the 1970s. Following his retirement to Bermuda in the 1970s, the conglomerate was operated by his three sons in much the same manner and remained relatively intact and maintained a strong vertical integration.

We need Canadian business heroes like Irving to kick-start this economy. Indeed, imagine if a guy like this emerged in Alberta or Saskatchewan. We can dare to dream.

I'm working on a security contract right now in Sudbury for one of the big nickel mine companies and the actual mining is a small part of the operations. The bigger job-creating parts of the operation are the mill that sifts out the metal and the smelter that refines the metal into market-ready alloys. Without these important value-adding processes, in other words if we were just shipping raw material, there would be far fewer jobs in northern Ontario.

Canada needs more of this. You're correct that unions ONCE were a force to be reckoned with in this area, but they have neutered themselves with corruption at the leadership level. We need right-to-work legislation Scott Walker style to combat this.

(02-21-2017 08:09 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  What.

Thats like saying that Saudi Arabia needs to diversify and has no future unless it gets out of the oil business.

...............

Canada needs to stop being such a little bitch about how it sells its resources, thats the solution, not green energy and IT.

Apples to oranges. The Saudis don't have any economic sectors currently that would rival their oil sector. We do. Even if you had processing in the country, which is a good idea, the finished product is still subject to global markets. Not as terrible as exporting in raw form, but hardly a panacea.

The whole point if you'd understood my post is not to remove resource extraction and processing as an economic activity completely, but to reduce the volatility associated with an economy heavily tied to resources by buffering it with other sectors that make up a growing portion of GDP.

(02-21-2017 08:43 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 08:09 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  When unions were strong they were smart enough to lobby that resource extraction needed some kind of processing in Canada. Mandating that logs for example, needed to be turned into lumber before they left canada meant sawmill jobs in Canada, but no longer in some provinces.

Imagine if Alberta mandated that all oil had to be refined before it left the province? Yuuge jobs. You'd think the current socialists in power there would come up with a similar idea, but no.

Canada needs to stop being such a little bitch about how it sells its resources, thats the solution, not green energy and IT.

Lucid analysis as always Dr. Howard. This reminds me of one of Canada's economic heroes that I learned about in school, K. C. Irving and his "vertical integration" of his oil business.

Quote:Many of the components of the Irving Group of Companies were established or acquired by K.C. Irving during his period of active entrepreneurship between the 1920s and the 1970s. Following his retirement to Bermuda in the 1970s, the conglomerate was operated by his three sons in much the same manner and remained relatively intact and maintained a strong vertical integration.

We need Canadian business heroes like Irving to kick-start this economy. Indeed, imagine if a guy like this emerged in Alberta or Saskatchewan. We can dare to dream.

I'm working on a security contract right now in Sudbury for one of the big nickel mine companies and the actual mining is a small part of the operations. The bigger job-creating parts of the operation are the mill that sifts out the metal and the smelter that refines the metal into market-ready alloys. Without these important value-adding processes, in other words if we were just shipping raw material, there would be far fewer jobs in northern Ontario.

Canada needs more of this. You're correct that unions ONCE were a force to be reckoned with in this area, but they have neutered themselves with corruption at the leadership level. We need right-to-work legislation Scott Walker style to combat this.

I understand your sentiment, and it is admirable, but I personally despise the Irving Group. I can attest from personal experience that they use their massive political power in the Atlantic provinces (they run New Brunswick virtually as a private colony) and near-monopoly on shipbuilding in the Maritimes to repeatedly and blatantly fuck over the Royal Canadian Navy on shipbuilding and ship maintenance contracts. And I can assure you I am far from the only serving Navy member that feels this way. They are the absolute epitome of the worst form of corrupt robber-baron crony capitalism that one would think we'd left behind in the 1800s. It doesn't help that such activity is aided and abetted by governments, both Liberal and Conservative, that see military procurement as a vehicle for vote-buying rather than as it actually should be - the business of properly equipping the defense of Canada at the most reasonable cost.

Nothing would make me happier than to see that company hit with the massive antitrust lawsuits it so richly deserves.

^ Fair enough and I agree with your argument that we need to get the government out of the game and eliminate the "crony" factor in Canadian industry, but you might find that, if we ever miraculously achieved this here in our little socialist paradise, that the Irvings laugh all the way to the bank when you hit them with the anti-trust legal actions. Rockefeller certainly did when they broke up his monopoly. I still think it's a good idea mind you, and I think it would benefit all involved. I hear your criticisms of the Irvings and they are valid, but it sounds a lot like hating the player instead of hating the game.

(02-21-2017 09:31 PM)jj90 Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 08:09 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  What.

Thats like saying that Saudi Arabia needs to diversify and has no future unless it gets out of the oil business.

...............

Canada needs to stop being such a little bitch about how it sells its resources, thats the solution, not green energy and IT.

Apples to oranges. The Saudis don't have any economic sectors currently that would rival their oil sector. We do. Even if you had processing in the country, which is a good idea, the finished product is still subject to global markets. Not as terrible as exporting in raw form, but hardly a panacea.

The whole point if you'd understood my post is not to remove resource extraction and processing as an economic activity completely, but to reduce the volatility associated with an economy heavily tied to resources by buffering it with other sectors that make up a growing portion of GDP.

Your text implies that "someone" who "knows better" "oughta make a law". Bullshit.

Howard is right.

The scaremongering to diversify the economy is always done by leftists looking for more government involvement (ie. more waste, inefficiency, and kickbacks).

The individuals will decide when and how much to diversify. And if they want to go all-in on fossil fuels (and other resources) then I say godspeed.

And...

(02-21-2017 07:45 PM)911 Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:53 PM)Ghost Tiger Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:45 PM)scotian Wrote:  

(02-21-2017 06:07 PM)Nascimento Wrote:  I've clearly done myself a disservice by never venturing outside of Ontario to date...

Take a road trip to Montreal and Quebec City this summer!

Let me know if you are going. Maybe we can arrange a meetup.

Likewise. If you're after college bootie though, keep in mind that school is out by mid-may, and the kids won't stick around.

count me in on this, fellas.