A well known engineer who worked at Google and Uber has founded a new religion called Way of the Future, which will worship an artificial intelligence god.

New AI God/Religion to be created

Evolution of religion?

A real god that has evidence of its existence?

A benevolent and moral authority all humans can get behind?


The downside is that I doubt AI will reach the required level to get this off the ground. Currently my computer can not reliably boot up, never mind hear the prayers of millions of faithful each day.....



An AI could write a bible for how to live and expect humans to become subservient.


A podcaster named Rose Eveleth helped create an algorithm that wrote an AI bible gathered from sacred writings. It’s a remarkable exercise, even though the result is mostly gibberish. Whether that really matters is open to debate, according to the experts.

“An AI would provide the equivalent of a ‘Messiah’ -- having many orders of magnitude more processing elements than the brain, enabling it to gift us with solutions to the most daunting social, political, economic, and environmental challenges,” says Dr. Stephen Thaler, the President and CEO of Imagination Engines who is an AI and consciousness expert.

^^^^

Per Richard Dawkins' observation in The Blind Watchmaker, the creator is always more complex than the created, thus (in his view) there is no God. By this reasoning AI can never become more complex than its creator and therefore never God.

(12-10-2017 05:38 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  ^^^^

Per Richard Dawkins' observation in The Blind Watchmaker, the creator is always more complex than the created, thus (in his view) there is no God. By this reasoning AI can never become more complex than its creator and therefore never God.

I've never been one to just believe generalised assumptions like that one.

I suppose it all depends on what we mean when we say "complex".

For example, humans created the internet, and it is very much more complex than humans.

Think of the sum of knowledge, processing power, data transfer and reasoning power that large data and the internet process.

The "singularity" gang assert that if processors keep getting exponentially more powerful that they will inevitably become more intelligent than their creators...

Another example is an algorithm or simple rule (few lines of code) can produce an infinitely more complex result or dataset. Think fractals.

In some ways the universe is a very complex entity created with a few simple laws of physics and some basic materials (hydrogen).

And then there is the theme that everything "has to be created" which can't be logically true....

(12-10-2017 07:26 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  In some ways the universe is a very complex entity created with a few simple laws of physics and some basic materials (hydrogen).

You should go have a look at Edward Wilson's Consilience. His metaphor of science being like Theseus holding Ariadne's silken thread will probably appeal to you. That said, I agree, like all terms in this stuff, "complexity" should be defined first. No, I don't want to right now.

Yes, I do. Believing in some superpowers slightly helps in real life.

Everything that exists follows rules, patterns, and cycles, but who designed these things? Nothing comes out of nowhere.

The initial energy that created everything; that's God. Everything that happened later was the will of that energy; there is no luck or randomness or waste; everything that exists works perfectly with each other and fits like a giant puzzle. It's a work of genius and the farthest thing away from randomness and luck.

(12-11-2017 02:16 AM)xxx Wrote:  Everything that exists follows rules, patterns, and cycles, but who designed these things? Nothing comes out of nowhere.

But then who designed the god? Since nothing comes from nowhere....

If there is room in your belief for "things existing since the beginning of time" then it might as well occam's razor down to matter and the laws of physics.
The introduction of a supernatural creator does not solve the "something from nothing" problem.

Religious people used to think chariots pulled the sun across the sky, and then we learned about orbits and rotation of the Earth etc.
Understanding the laws of physics that are behind the universe's creation are a lot harder than the earth's orbit, but it's no reason to invent a religious explanation.
We should have evolved out of that kind of behavior by now...

How things started or where all this shit comes from is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe.

As apes on a rocky planet we will probably never know the real cause.

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  As apes on a rocky planet we will probably never know the real cause.

When actual apes and chimpanzees start building skyscrapers, turning the lights on, and making the water flow, then you can call us apes. We're men. We're human.

Until then....fail.

Has anyone read Christopher Hitchens God is not great?

(12-12-2017 04:23 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  As apes on a rocky planet we will probably never know the real cause.

When actual apes and chimpanzees start building skyscrapers, turning the lights on, and making the water flow, then you can call us apes. We're men. We're human.

Until then....fail.

You did a biology 101 fail.

And you upset the relatives!

Do you think we are not mammals as well?

(12-12-2017 10:18 AM)Piankhi Wrote:  Has anyone read Christopher Hitchens God is not great?

I haven't read it, but I saw a video a couple of years ago by a Mormon historian who did a partial rebuttal of this book, including the chapter devoted to Mormonism. It's hilarious the insane inaccuracies that he points out. I was in stitches through parts of this. The general Christian/religious stuff begins at 10:20.

Here's the man himself talking about his book.

I was also in stitches at his wit, humour and observations about religion.

Do I believe in God? Yes

Do I believe He rewards the strong and punishes the weak? Absolutely!

However, God also rewards the patient!

(12-12-2017 10:18 AM)Piankhi Wrote:  Has anyone read Christopher Hitchens God is not great?

Yes. Hitchens is a gifted writer and the book is rhetorically very engaging. Unfortunately, it suffers from historical and philosophical illiteracy.

Also, nice username.

(12-03-2017 05:44 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Agnostics don't really exist.

Ask them "do you believe god(s) exists" and they have to answer yes and become a deist or no and become an atheist.

"I don't really know" is an answer that all three groups share in common.

"Agnostic" is more of a social position - "I'm too rational to believe in the supernatural, but too polite to suggest you are crazy, so I'll take this fluffy sit on the fence label kthxbi"

I disagree, I don't have to say yes or no. What's wrong with saying "I don't know" or "I'm not sure"? I really have no idea whether God exists or not, and I'm not going to pretend that I know.

I would answer the same way if you asked me some other hard question about a subject I don't understand and I'm barely qualified to comment on such as quantum physics.

I was an atheist. Most of family is atheist.

Now that I'm not I'm ashamed that I didn't see it before. It's really obvious if you, in real honesty, open your heart to it. Like stepping outside a fishbowl and saying to yourself: "How did I, for all those years, not know I was in a fish bowl, swimming around, being fed by someone daily, having my water changed, etc.?"

Happily too I've stopped thinking that I could "prove" the existence through a logical argument to someone. A: This is not possible for good reasons, B: Who was I really trying to prove this to?

Big problem with me now is the thrill of pride I get when I meet someone who is an atheist. Spiritual pride. This is truly really bad and something I need to address with vigilance and meditation.

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 02:16 AM)xxx Wrote:  Everything that exists follows rules, patterns, and cycles, but who designed these things? Nothing comes out of nowhere.

But then who designed the god? Since nothing comes from nowhere....

If there is room in your belief for "things existing since the beginning of time" then it might as well occam's razor down to matter and the laws of physics.
The introduction of a supernatural creator does not solve the "something from nothing" problem.

Religious people used to think chariots pulled the sun across the sky, and then we learned about orbits and rotation of the Earth etc.
Understanding the laws of physics that are behind the universe's creation are a lot harder than the earth's orbit, but it's no reason to invent a religious explanation.
We should have evolved out of that kind of behavior by now...

How things started or where all this shit comes from is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe.

As apes on a rocky planet we will probably never know the real cause.

I think people of this mindset are short changing our ancestors. I think the myths and lore of our people are a bit more complex than what basically amounts to overgrown children with the mindsets of 6 year olds looking up at the sky and thinking "gee a man is really pulling the sun in a chariot."

No, and if God does exist, then it doesn’t give a shit about our opinions on the subject. Be a good human. Although, the church (religion) is a good place to find a compliant woman to bear children. Religion and God are mutually exclusive issues, frequently marketed by con artists (religions) to take your resources in the name of God.

(12-24-2017 05:16 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 02:16 AM)xxx Wrote:  Everything that exists follows rules, patterns, and cycles, but who designed these things? Nothing comes out of nowhere.

But then who designed the god? Since nothing comes from nowhere....

If there is room in your belief for "things existing since the beginning of time" then it might as well occam's razor down to matter and the laws of physics.
The introduction of a supernatural creator does not solve the "something from nothing" problem.

Religious people used to think chariots pulled the sun across the sky, and then we learned about orbits and rotation of the Earth etc.
Understanding the laws of physics that are behind the universe's creation are a lot harder than the earth's orbit, but it's no reason to invent a religious explanation.
We should have evolved out of that kind of behavior by now...

How things started or where all this shit comes from is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe.

As apes on a rocky planet we will probably never know the real cause.

I think people of this mindset are short changing our ancestors. I think the myths and lore of our people are a bit more complex than what basically amounts to overgrown children with the mindsets of 6 year olds looking up at the sky and thinking "gee a man is really pulling the sun in a chariot."

In the 5th Century B.C., Anaxagoras was prosecuted for impiety for saying the moon and sun were not divinities. So, yes, they were that simplistic.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/people/philo...anaxagoras

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Anaxagoras

(12-24-2017 10:14 AM)RedPillUK Wrote:  

(12-03-2017 05:44 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Agnostics don't really exist.

Ask them "do you believe god(s) exists" and they have to answer yes and become a deist or no and become an atheist.

"I don't really know" is an answer that all three groups share in common.

"Agnostic" is more of a social position - "I'm too rational to believe in the supernatural, but too polite to suggest you are crazy, so I'll take this fluffy sit on the fence label kthxbi"

I disagree, I don't have to say yes or no. What's wrong with saying "I don't know" or "I'm not sure"? I really have no idea whether God exists or not, and I'm not going to pretend that I know.

The question wasn't "do you know" or "are you sure" - because no one is. We wouldn't even have atheists or theists if everyone knew or was sure. Thats not the question.

The question is "do you have faith?" (despite not knowing or being sure)

You don't have to answer, but it is a question that can only be answered yes or no.

As you do not have faith, you are an atheist.

There is no such thing as an agnostic.

(12-24-2017 05:16 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Religious people used to think chariots pulled the sun across the sky, and then we learned about orbits and rotation of the Earth etc.

I think people of this mindset are short changing our ancestors. I think the myths and lore of our people are a bit more complex than what basically amounts to overgrown children with the mindsets of 6 year olds looking up at the sky and thinking "gee a man is really pulling the sun in a chariot."

You are right, out ancestors who imagined these myths to explain unknown natural events (especially scary ones) probably had the mental sophistication of a 6 year old. They had no education, no sum of man's knowledge, no internet and times were tough and they didn't live that long or have too long to dwell on such matters.

In a few thousand years, men will look back on current day religions and spiritual beliefs with some comparisons to 6 year old mentality too...

(some enlightened amongst us here today think that now of the devout :-)

(12-24-2017 05:44 PM)Sherman Wrote:  In the 5th Century B.C., Anaxagoras was prosecuted for impiety for saying the moon and sun were not divinities. So, yes, they were that simplistic.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/people/philo...anaxagoras

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Anaxagoras

Even today, there are religions and nations where you can get in DEEP SHIT for pointing out that this religions stuff, it all sounds a bit silly really.

If the universe has a creator, I don't understand why our choice to believe in a creator or not would be the measure of eternal life.

The concepts are mentally incomprehensible why should it be demanded to "have faith" in something you can't comprehend? I don't blame people for not believing.

(12-24-2017 08:09 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(12-24-2017 05:16 PM)Raylan Givens Wrote:  

(12-11-2017 05:05 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Religious people used to think chariots pulled the sun across the sky, and then we learned about orbits and rotation of the Earth etc.

I think people of this mindset are short changing our ancestors. I think the myths and lore of our people are a bit more complex than what basically amounts to overgrown children with the mindsets of 6 year olds looking up at the sky and thinking "gee a man is really pulling the sun in a chariot."

You are right, out ancestors who imagined these myths to explain unknown natural events (especially scary ones) probably had the mental sophistication of a 6 year old. They had no education, no sum of man's knowledge, no internet and times were tough and they didn't live that long or have too long to dwell on such matters.

In a few thousand years, men will look back on current day religions and spiritual beliefs with some comparisons to 6 year old mentality too...

(some enlightened amongst us here today think that now of the devout :-)

Such people couldn't have left records behind. How do you know what was going on in their minds?

^^^^

Also would query the idea that the Internet has made humanity smarter. If anything it's the opposite.