Post: #51

(01-20-2016 01:40 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  The US government spends over a hundred grand on K-12 education per student, so a college graduate bitching about loans is ridiculous.

And how much of your K-12 education do you use day-to-day? Just more bullshit, shut it down.

Quote:Even assuming you did 4 years at a UC instead of a CSUMB here means at max you paid 64,000 in tuition, which in the long run isn't a big fucking deal. Pay your share

Still a rip off.

Post: #52

(01-20-2016 01:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Guys, the entire system is broken from top to bottom. The idea that you need to take out 100K in loans just to get a decent job is fucked up beyond all reason. For all of recorded history, no such scam has been in place.

Exactly. I am sure we all agree that a man should be true to his word, but these bastards are leveraging the honesty of the common man in order to sell him a false bill of goods.

I used to try to steer conversations with college kids in this direction, but got no traction being an oldster, unless of course the kid was already questioning things, hocking his future for 500 student classes where he never met the professor, and English classes with multiple choice tests.

Any young guy deep in student loan debt, and pondering his future in this job market is in a real quandary, and we shouldn't be crapping on him for exploring his options.

Do what you need to make a future you believe in, and don't worry about the vultures who roped you in.

Samseau's idea of paying as little as you can get away with is a good one, and would topple the whole thing if millions of young men went with that idea.

It is anti-social to the extreme that a culture would imagine that a twenty three year old graduate should be starting his working life saddled with a debt of a hundred grand, a clear sign of a ruling elite that hates its own people.

Not only has the price been rising steadily since the 80's for education, but the quality of the education has been going down, and it is brutal that so many employers demand that you have a degree even to apply. This is not an objective standard of competence, it is a test for obedience and nothing else.

In the sixties it was free to go to a state school in California like Berkeley or UCLA. When I was going to school in the 80's, prices were rising sometimes by 30% a semester, but even with all that, I went to a junior college for a year, my parents paid for a year at a state school, and then I finished up at Berkeley for two years by taking out one loan and working on the weekends.

It is criminal what is expected of kids today, and we all know what happens if they even complain about the price:

Post: #53

(01-20-2016 12:44 AM)The Father Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 12:27 AM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  It's possible, sure, but the human cost of it....

It'd basically ensure that you'd never be able to step foot in your home country ever again. All it would take to screw you permanently would be for a foreign government to want you deported for any reason whatsoever. And with US citizens, you have to pay taxes regardless of whether or not you are outside the country. You could go to jail for years if the US government got their hands on you.

It'd basically ensure you'd be living the rest of your life on the semi-run.

Yes. A much better approach would be to transfer the debt to a credit card, if you could. Cash advance, maybe? Whatever. See, you can't default on student loan debt in a bankruptcy. But credit card debt? You can. Not that I recommend bankruptcy. BUT, if your alternative is to flee your homeland...

If your total amount of student loan debt is so small that it's under your credit card limit, then it's not worth permanently fleeing the country or ruining your credit score for.

Post: #54

You could always enlist.

Post: #55

Maybe college shouldn't cost as much as it does. But thanks to tenure and government backing, schools can charge whatever. And the proliferation of useless degrees like Women's studies just turns out people with no skills. Couple that with the YOLO attitude and people encouraging you to just be you, it turns out a large amount of useless individuals. And there are jobs out there but many people think they are too good for them.

I think the rate of tuition increases has far outpaced inflation. But some blame has to be laid at the feet of the students also. Everyone has some responsibility.

I hope Sanders doesn't win because I have no interest in footing the bill to give students a free college education. Some things have to be earned to truly appreciate it and use it. The way the college students are now, I can only imagine how much more useless they would be if they got a free education, I imagine they would do whatever it took to graduate in 10 years or more.

In life, we are burdened by our mistakes of our past. It is part of life. I get that people don't want this burden, but I bet everyone was eager to go college when they thought they would get a good job when they graduated. There would be no complaining if they got a good job. But these folks in this article were not qualified for a good job. If they were, they would be working in the US. I don't want to get all Darwin here but some people were not meant to be winners in life.

Sacrifice builds character. It isn't all a bad thing. It also educates you on how to make better choices going forward. Not all lessons in life can be taught on a forum or from people in your life. Sometimes, you just have to fuck up.

If you think about it the reason why you cannot BK on student loans is because the asset is your education and it goes with you forever. If you had a loan on a car or a house, they would take that asset back. Credit cards are based on your income, credit and likelihood to pay. I would be ok if you BK'd on your student loans --------ONLY-------- if you worked jobs that did not require a college degree. You can't give up the debt without giving up the asset. If you cannot understand this concept, well...you really wasted your money if you went to college.

I consider myself a pretty nice person, I am not trying to stomp on people's feelings, I know it sucks to have so much debt, but sometimes when people talk about shirking what they agreed to, it sort of annoys me.

Please don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for those who a responsible individuals who are struggling with a lot of debt. It is not like I am sitting here laughing at you.

EDIT: There are a shitload of wealthy people that never went to college. College is not the only way to get ahead.

Post: #56

(01-20-2016 10:18 PM)MKDAWUSS Wrote:  You could always enlist.

Don't they only forgive loans after you've made ten years of payments?

That only seems worth it if you owe an absurd amount.

Post: #57

(01-20-2016 10:38 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Maybe college shouldn't cost as much as it does. But thanks to tenure and government backing, schools can charge whatever. And the proliferation of useless degrees like Women's studies just turns out people with no skills. Couple that with the YOLO attitude and people encouraging you to just be you, it turns out a large amount of useless individuals. And there are jobs out there but many people think they are too good for them.

I think the rate of tuition increases has far outpaced inflation. But some blame has to be laid at the feet of the students also. Everyone has some responsibility.

I hope Sanders doesn't win because I have no interest in footing the bill to give students a free college education. Some things have to be earned to truly appreciate it and use it. The way the college students are now, I can only imagine how much more useless they would be if they got a free education, I imagine they would do whatever it took to graduate in 10 years or more.

In life, we are burdened by our mistakes of our past. It is part of life. I get that people don't want this burden, but I bet everyone was eager to go college when they thought they would get a good job when they graduated. There would be no complaining if they got a good job. But these folks in this article were not qualified for a good job. If they were, they would be working in the US. I don't want to get all Darwin here but some people were not meant to be winners in life.

Sacrifice builds character. It isn't all a bad thing. It also educates you on how to make better choices going forward. Not all lessons in life can be taught on a forum or from people in your life. Sometimes, you just have to fuck up.

If you think about it the reason why you cannot BK on student loans is because the asset is your education and it goes with you forever. If you had a loan on a car or a house, they would take that asset back. Credit cards are based on your income, credit and likelihood to pay. I would be ok if you BK'd on your student loans --------ONLY-------- if you worked jobs that did not require a college degree. You can't give up the debt without giving up the asset. If you cannot understand this concept, well...you really wasted your money if you went to college.

I consider myself a pretty nice person, I am not trying to stomp on people's feelings, I know it sucks to have so much debt, but sometimes when people talk about shirking what they agreed to, it sort of annoys me.

Please don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for those who a responsible individuals who are struggling with a lot of debt. It is not like I am sitting here laughing at you.

EDIT: There are a shitload of wealthy people that never went to college. College is not the only way to get ahead.

Damn right. My uncle and all of his "trade school rat" (his phrase) buddies all had (or in my uncle's case, still has) their own businesses and did pretty well for themselves.

Post: #58

(01-20-2016 10:38 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Maybe college shouldn't cost as much as it does. But thanks to tenure and government backing, schools can charge whatever. And the proliferation of useless degrees like Women's studies just turns out people with no skills. Couple that with the YOLO attitude and people encouraging you to just be you, it turns out a large amount of useless individuals. And there are jobs out there but many people think they are too good for them.

I think the rate of tuition increases has far outpaced inflation. But some blame has to be laid at the feet of the students also. Everyone has some responsibility.

I hope Sanders doesn't win because I have no interest in footing the bill to give students a free college education. Some things have to be earned to truly appreciate it and use it. The way the college students are now, I can only imagine how much more useless they would be if they got a free education, I imagine they would do whatever it took to graduate in 10 years or more.

In life, we are burdened by our mistakes of our past. It is part of life. I get that people don't want this burden, but I bet everyone was eager to go college when they thought they would get a good job when they graduated. There would be no complaining if they got a good job. But these folks in this article were not qualified for a good job. If they were, they would be working in the US. I don't want to get all Darwin here but some people were not meant to be winners in life.

Sacrifice builds character. It isn't all a bad thing. It also educates you on how to make better choices going forward. Not all lessons in life can be taught on a forum or from people in your life. Sometimes, you just have to fuck up.

If you think about it the reason why you cannot BK on student loans is because the asset is your education and it goes with you forever. If you had a loan on a car or a house, they would take that asset back. Credit cards are based on your income, credit and likelihood to pay. I would be ok if you BK'd on your student loans --------ONLY-------- if you worked jobs that did not require a college degree. You can't give up the debt without giving up the asset. If you cannot understand this concept, well...you really wasted your money if you went to college.

I consider myself a pretty nice person, I am not trying to stomp on people's feelings, I know it sucks to have so much debt, but sometimes when people talk about shirking what they agreed to, it sort of annoys me.

Please don't get me wrong, I have sympathy for those who a responsible individuals who are struggling with a lot of debt. It is not like I am sitting here laughing at you.

EDIT: There are a shitload of wealthy people that never went to college. College is not the only way to get ahead.

This reminds me, years ago, when I still had the (lack of) tact to ask people what they were doing with their fluff majors.

"Oh, English/psychology/film studies/journalism, what are you doing with that degree?"

There's over a trillion dollars floating out there now in student loans. With no physical collateral.

I hope that whole mentality changes. A large portion of the most energetic, most physically able, and most fertile people shouldn't be sitting in classrooms studying a dozen different pronouns for the new genders of the month, navelgazing deeper into their own language (that they can do free at a library), or figuring out how to pseudo-scientifically analyze the psychoses of their peers. Higher education classically was for a few, very bright people that it would benefit more than damage. The rest would be far better off actually producing things.

People chirp on and on about making money, like that job that just gives them a paycheck every month is making them money, but what is actually being produced?

If the answer is bureaucracy, more laws, paperwork and rules that gets in other's ways, bullshit television ads, social justice movements, or groupthink media, then that person is basically a parasite in one way or another. But id goods, technology, knowledge, or real art is being made, then they are not. Society makes a value judgement with the dollars it spends. If nobody wants to pay for your idea, your idea is worthless to anyone but yourself. This whole concept is completely distorted in this day and age, yet called capitalism for the sake of a convenient target.

And government backing trillions of dollars into debt, the housing market, and everything else isn't society. That is the powers that be vastly overstepping their bounds and distorting society, with regardless of either good or bad intentions.

Post: #59

The article is about a bunch of fools. All but one owed around $40K and left the country to avoid paying this debt. Given the difference in salaries between the US and Europe, they could pay it back in a few years maximum even doing non-graduate level jobs in the US. If they really tried hard, they could pay it back in a year or two. Not having the right major is not an excuse either. I know immigrants who speak broken English and make pretty decent money in the US because they work their asses off. Working as a barista at a Starbucks and pushing papers 9 to 5 are not the only options to make money. There is money to be made in truck driving, house renovations and other lines of work that these entitled college graduates probably think are beneath them.

They only guy from the article who owes a pretty substantial amount of money (about $160K) is the one who was stupid enough to get his parents to co-sign and then leave the country, so now they are on the hook too.

I say if you're going that route, don't half ass it, fucking go to town. Get your undergrad and grad degrees from expensive schools paid off with study abroad for a year or two. Get other loans as well, whatever you can - credit cards, unsecured loans, what have you. Once you owe several hundred thousand and ideally can get a second citizenship by ancestry or something, it may make sense to escape abroad from a financial point of view if you are an adventurous type and don't like living in the US anyway. I don't condone this type of behavior, but at least I can understand it logically if somebody runs away owing a substantial amount and starts from a clean slate elsewhere. These millennials from the article, though, just fucked themselves by being stupid. They'll likely come back to the States in a few years max and have to repay their debts + interest.

Post: #60

Honor arguments are misplaced.

True human alpha males almost always have dark triad personalities. If push comes to shove alpha male won't give a shit about anything outside of himself (his own kids being frequent, though not necessary exception.) To ask of an alpha male to honor some banker because it's the "right thing to do" would be an utterly alien concept to him. In his primal brain such artificial construct will simply not compute at all.

What about general "manly honor"?

That's another discussion, but if you really want to go that route you should know that manly honor should extend only to your family and friends (and maybe immediate local community in which you live in.) Are the Jewish bankers and malevolent Feds your family and friends? I didn't think so.

The elites won't allow you to drink peach wine cooler until you're 21, but will gleefully hit you with 100k debt by that same age. Men don't mature mentally until around the age of 25. So giving them easy access to huge amounts of debt o early, without ability to default, is an outright creation of legal slavery. That's what indebted servitude is. And is especially wicked when it's done via fiat money (creating slaves out of thin air.)

I would feel differently if the parties in question are of similar stature (if both sides were adults so to speak,) but they are not. That's why the whole thing reeks of predatory sleaze by the bankers/government. In the same way we know of wrong when a 16-year-old student is fucked by a 40-year-old teacher (even if the sex was mutually consensual we never argue that nobody forced that student to fuck their teacher/they did by their own volition, do we?) why aren't we aghast when 18-year-old kids are fucked financially by 50-year-old lenders and their government enforcers who are in position of authority? Talking about power imbalance, on one side you have highly immature kids high on impulses and hormones giddy to be out of their parental home so they could finally exercise the sweet opiate of their adult "freedom", and on the other side you have highly intelligent mature people whose sole purpose in life for the past hundreds of years was to create new and innovative ways to prey on and profit from people in weaker positions than them.

Post: #61

(01-20-2016 11:22 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  They only guy from the article who owes a pretty substantial amount of money (about $160K) is the one who was stupid enough to get his parents to co-sign and then leave the country, so now they are on the hook too.

People who let parents co-sign their loans and then leave them on the hook for it should burn at the stake.

That's disgusting, completely irresponsible, and an insult to the people who raised him.

I have my own complaints about my parents, but I'd never saddle them with a cosigned loan I bailed on.

Post: #62

How anyone can excuse, let alone condone breach of contract on here is beyond me. I don't care if you take out a loan with 50% interest from a greasy loan shark. You are still obligated to pay back the principal and interest. Yeah it's unfair, but you got yourself into the mess and need to take responsibility to dig yourself out.

Some of you guys remind me of shoplifting teenagers who try to justify their bad behavior by saying that corporations are screwing us over, charging too much, exploiting Chinese labor, or any other bullshit excuse.

I'm not encouraging anyone to go to college or supporting the state-sponsored sodomy of students, but those who already made the decision to borrow money need to keep their word and pay it back.

All a man has is his word. And that's becoming increasingly rare today.

Post: #63

(01-21-2016 07:31 AM)wi30 Wrote:  How anyone can excuse, let alone condone breach of contract on here is beyond me. I don't care if you take out a loan with 50% interest from a greasy loan shark. You are still obligated to pay back the principal and interest. Yeah it's unfair, but you got yourself into the mess and need to take responsibility to dig yourself out.

Some of you guys remind me of shoplifting teenagers who try to justify their bad behavior by saying that corporations are screwing us over, charging too much, exploiting Chinese labor, or any other bullshit excuse.

I'm not encouraging anyone to go to college or supporting the state-sponsored sodomy of students, but those who already made the decision to borrow money need to keep their word and pay it back.

All a man has is his word. And that's becoming increasingly rare today.

All a man has is his brain and his self respect. They will continue to fuck us as long as we let them fuck us. They brainwash kids since the age of 6 that going to college is the only way to avoid being a loser, then they make this a reality by requiring a college degree for all but the most menial of jobs. They artificially hike up the price of the degree way beyond what a free market undistorted by Federal loans would bear, giving you a choice between working a minimum wage job with no future or mortgaging your future by taking on loans. This is NOT a choice! The system they created means you HAVE to go to college and submit to debt slavery.

And this being the government, they do all this with your own money. They take your tax money and the power you give them to supposedly represent your interests, and they use it to destroy your future and enslave you.

And you support this and even go out of your way to call people who see no honor in being a victim of what can only be described as institutionalized slavery as cowards. Un-fucking-believable.

Post: #64

(01-20-2016 01:54 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(01-20-2016 01:40 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  The US government spends over a hundred grand on K-12 education per student, so a college graduate bitching about loans is ridiculous.

And how much of your K-12 education do you use day-to-day? Just more bullshit, shut it down.

Quote:Even assuming you did 4 years at a UC instead of a CSUMB here means at max you paid 64,000 in tuition, which in the long run isn't a big fucking deal. Pay your share

Still a rip off.

Surprisingly, my K12 experience in particular my 9-12 schooling I use almost everyday. My college education was where I was just regurgitating bullshit. I stopped learning my freshmen year of college.

My high school was a special case where they axed the sports programs in favor of paying teachers more, offering teaching classes, and more AP level courses. My high school had its problems, but in comparison to college which was nothing but a complete shit shot of incompetency it was a shining beacon of what a high school education should amount to. Dare I say it, it was as good as the private schools in the area.

K12 is where the focus should be. College should be unnecessary in this world and is nothing more than a frothy excuse to build real estate bubbles in shitty college towns and bolster marxist idiots who think they've "won" the fight from the 60s.

I want to watch the tads occupying college campuses burn. Well, ok I just want them to be out of work and unemployable. But still!

Post: #65

Whenever I have the opportunity to talk to young people who are around the age of high school or college and have indicated they are facing the decision to take out student loans, I try to be the one person who tells them this could be a bad idea. I see it most often when I am talking to a kid who goes to X local school for free or cheap and wants to transfer for the last two years to a "better" school because she thinks that diploma will be more valuable. What these kids do not realize is that no diploma has direct financial value unless you are in a very specific path dependent career coming out of a specialized school. Perhaps this describes less than 5% of diplomas. The academics love to justify liberal arts educations by saying things like they prepare kids to think etc. The reality is the modern BA is no better than a rigorous high school of years past. Its a total joke how uneducated most graduates really are. The point is that the degree is a product like any other product being purchased, and the purchasers are mostly looking for the piece of paper and fancy letters for a resume not the education itself. With these young people I occasionally encounter I always encourage them to consider staying at the free school and tell them whatever handy anecdote about how the employers don't care about the difference between the lower local school vs the perceived higher end one. Of course there are exceptions to this; there are brilliant kids who should borrow whatever it takes to get that physics, math, or law degree in order to go after a chosen career. That drive to get to the top of the class can translate into a drive for a better compensation which may help pay off the loans. But for the masses of average or even intelligent kids the reality of the weight of the debt taken on for a "degree" is a crushing burden. The average "good job" is not capable of producing enough income to let you not notice an extra 500 or 1000 a month payment.

The system is perfect for the banks and universities. Take a kid with no life experience, throw in some parental and social peer pressure, add in a heavy dose of fear, and the kid signs one of the biggest non-reversible debts in life.

If you need that degree, do everything possible to obtain it for its real intrinsic value.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thousands-ap...1453285800

Post: #66

(01-21-2016 07:31 AM)wi30 Wrote:  How anyone can excuse, let alone condone breach of contract on here is beyond me. I don't care if you take out a loan with 50% interest from a greasy loan shark. You are still obligated to pay back the principal and interest. Yeah it's unfair, but you got yourself into the mess and need to take responsibility to dig yourself out.

Some of you guys remind me of shoplifting teenagers who try to justify their bad behavior by saying that corporations are screwing us over, charging too much, exploiting Chinese labor, or any other bullshit excuse.

I'm not encouraging anyone to go to college or supporting the state-sponsored sodomy of students, but those who already made the decision to borrow money need to keep their word and pay it back.

All a man has is his word. And that's becoming increasingly rare today.

You're wrong, you have no idea what contract law is or how it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quid_pro_quo

Quote:In the United States, if the exchange appears excessively one sided, courts in some jurisdictions may question whether a quid pro quo did actually exist and the contract may be held void.

Real simple: The contract involved with 75% of current college degrees are excessively one-sided, and are thus invalid.

Post: #67

(01-21-2016 06:05 AM)Daddy Chains Wrote:  Honor arguments are misplaced.

True human alpha males almost always have dark triad personalities. If push comes to shove alpha male won't give a shit about anything outside of himself (his own kids being frequent, though not necessary exception.) To ask of an alpha male to honor some banker because it's the "right thing to do" would be an utterly alien concept to him. In his primal brain such artificial construct will simply not compute at all.

So are you a true alpha male?

Post: #68

Shoplifting and not paying a debt are not even close to the same thing. What an exaggeration.

Maybe intentionally taking out a loan with no intent to repay, but otherwise no way.

Post: #69

One of the best feelings in the world was when I paid off my student loans. That was the start of me becoming debt free and taking things to the next level as far as my options in life.

Post: #70

The whole student loan problem is one huge ticking time bomb. It's only going to get solved when the people running the show are faced with legions of angry, rebellious students who start throwing Molotov cocktails.

I actually fight these cases in court, so I have some familiarity with the nuts and bolts of the situation. The system really is messed up.

And that's what they're really afraid of, guys. Not ISIS. They're afraid of the domestic population.

I'm currently litigating (through bankruptcy adversary proceedings) three separate actions where I'm trying to wipe out my clients' student loans. To prevail in these sorts of cases, it's not easy, because you have to show something beyond just regular hardship.

1. In one case, I have a single mother who will never make more than $42k per year having to live on the economy, yet is saddled with over $150K in old loans.

2. In another case, I have a guy with old loans from the 1990s that the school screwed up the documentation on. He didn't get credit for payments he made in the 1990s. He never heard anything from them for 15 years, and now they are wrongfully trying to collect. Collection agencies get this bad loans and wrongfully harass people.

3. In another case, I have two high school music teachers who work hard, but don't make much money. They have $250,000 in student loan debt that they will never be able to pay.

Just like the mortgage crisis, the government wants to look the other way and pretend there is no problem. They are lying and obfuscating.

The other little game the government uses is to try to funnel people into these "Income Based Repayment Programs" where they "let you" defer the loans or pay what you can for 20 years, and then they "forgive" the rest.

Sound good? Think again. There are mental and emotional costs with being crushed with debt. You can be saddled with the debt problem for many years.

Worse still, when the government "forgives" debt, it is a taxable event to you. (Not so if it's discharged in bankruptcy). Whatever they "forgive" you, you have to pay taxes on as if you made that money. So you just go from the student loan debt to tax debt.

One way or another, this problem will be solved, I hope. These are the ways they can do it:

1. Ease up on the "undue burden" standard in bankruptcy court, and make it easier to discharge the debts in bankruptcy.
Back in the 1980s, for example, student loans used to be dischargeable without any litigation, just like any other debt.

2. Make students take out a small amount of "student loan insurance" and pay into a pool, so that upon default the lender has some insurance recourse. I don't like this option, but it is an option.

In any case, I am fighting for people to get a fresh start.

The system is badly broken, and needs reform. Congress could easily do it if it cared. But they prefer to give money to other groups and causes, as we all know.

Post: #71

The student loan bubble was created by the collusion of the U.S. government, bankers and universities. The cost of college has been enormously inflated over the past twenty years as a direct consequence of widely available, non-dischargeable student loans from the federal government. This occurred at the same time wages remained completely stagnant for workers. The result is that even people who did the "responsible" thing and worked their way through school debt-free ended up overpaying massively for the privilege of receiving an education compared to their parents. After all, they were paying the same tuition rates that their debt-addled peers were paying with the government's money.

I don't even want to get started on the abomination that is "for profit universities". They are right up their with payday loan companies in terms of exploiting the poor and ignorant. Their basic scam: sign up some yokel or ghetto queen who is barely literate enough to fill out an enrollment form for "college". Have your specialists show them how to apply for federal student loans. Bank the money in exchange for "classes" which would provide marginal if any real-world remunerate benefit even if the student was capable of learning in the first place. When the student inevitably drops out of the program, they're still on the hook for the thousands of dollars of student debt, while the "university" already banked the money.

The entire system should be burned to the ground: no government loans to students, period. Grants and scholarships can be provided to needy but qualified students through private charity. Lenders are free to make private student loans but they will be unsecured and dischargeable like any other debt. Let the lender beware. And universities must provide their product - which is education, not a resort experience for marginally qualified students/jobs program for talentless administrative types - at a reasonable, market-based cost.

Post: #72

All debts, including student loans SHOULD be able to be discharged in Bankruptcy. (I am fully aware that they are not now based on the law.)

We should not have debt slaves in out society. If the loans were bankrupt-able the industry would have to act accordingly and evaluate risk accordingly and evaluate the value of the "collateral" or "borrower" just like any other situation. Instead it is a government run and government protection racket system.

The money (debt to the student) is created out of thin air via digital entires. It then goes on to support bloated mostly state run universities run by DMV style bureaucrats interested in keeping the gig going.

If student loans were able to be included in BK or simply defaulted on normally like a credit card, this would be one step towards making education a market solution not just another government program.

Post: #73

(01-21-2016 08:57 AM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  All a man has is his brain and his self respect. They will continue to fuck us as long as we let them fuck us. They brainwash kids since the age of 6 that going to college is the only way to avoid being a loser, then they make this a reality by requiring a college degree for all but the most menial of jobs. They artificially hike up the price of the degree way beyond what a free market undistorted by Federal loans would bear, giving you a choice between working a minimum wage job with no future or mortgaging your future by taking on loans. This is NOT a choice! The system they created means you HAVE to go to college and submit to debt slavery.

And this being the government, they do all this with your own money. They take your tax money and the power you give them to supposedly represent your interests, and they use it to destroy your future and enslave you.

And you support this and even go out of your way to call people who see no honor in being a victim of what can only be described as institutionalized slavery as cowards. Un-fucking-believable.

You are creating a false dichotomy. There are more options than either working a minimum wage dead end job or racking up tons of debt. Why else do you think blue collar work and trades are talked up so much on here? The main disagreement is that I still believe it's a choice to go to college. I know a handful of guys who went the blue collar or military route and are better off than the majority of us who went to a 4 year university. But I don't think we were completely brainwashed. We took a gamble. The next twenty years will show whether or not it will pay off. I'm leaning towards a big fat no.

And I never said I support any of it. I agree with you and think the whole thing is a scam. The government shouldn't be involved and the loans should be able to default in bankruptcy like any other unsecured loan. I wish I could go back in time and tell my 18 year old self to choose a different route.

But after the decision is made and you take the money, you are obligated to pay every penny back. It doesn't matter if it's a student loan, auto loan, or mortgage. If you make the deal, hold up your end of it. If it's a bad deal, learn from it and don't make the same mistake in the future.

(01-21-2016 11:14 AM)Samseau Wrote:  You're wrong, you have no idea what contract law is or how it works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quid_pro_quo

Quote:In the United States, if the exchange appears excessively one sided, courts in some jurisdictions may question whether a quid pro quo did actually exist and the contract may be held void.

Real simple: The contract involved with 75% of current college degrees are excessively one-sided, and are thus invalid.

I am aware of how contracts work.

Do you have any real life examples on your last statement you could elaborate on or is this all theory?

Post: #74

Ask a question on here about which country is best to live on 800 bucks a month, or $2k a month. The RVF can tell you immediately.

Ask which countries have the best pussy in the world. The RVF can tell you immediately.

Now ask which country has the lowest rates to study as a foreigner and earn a useful degree with affordable tuition. And college educated RVF is like.. whaaa?

To be a real red pill guy, you opt to sign up for shit you can't afford and then whine about it later.

Post: #75

I actually just posted a podcast about this topic (see link in my sig).

I think this is primarily the fault of the federal government, but the schools themselves deserve some blame. They jack up the tuition and line their pockets because there's all this money going around. I have about $10k left-I got off easy. My brother is around $80k in the hole.

I have a relative who works for an Ivy League school and she knows for a fact they are sitting on about $14 billion in reserves, assets, etc...but you can bet your life they're still charging $60k/year for tuition.

There is ludcrious spending- D1 football coaches making $2 million a year. Large, unneccessary construction projects...I went to a small school (about 1800 kids) and they were constantly building shit. No reason why most of it had to be built. It's 10X worse bigger schools.

Think any of this would be happening if tuition was $2000/year like it was 40 years ago?

This is going to be the next big crisis in America, this just cannot go on much longer.