Post: #76

(01-14-2016 09:39 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

Quote:HCE, I'm shaking my head at your last post how we shouldn't even be there. The reality is we'll project our power where and when we want for our national interests (yes, I'm talking about oil, so what), accept the consequences, and modify behavior as needed e.g. electing Trump in 298 days.

Trump's main selling point is that he doesn't want USA to be engaged in pointless military adventurism all around the world like it has been for the last 20 years, so no.

I think you might be conflating dubious nation-building democracy experiments ("pointless" I agree) with the more necessary goals of securing our energy supply and maintaining forward bases for squashing terrorists on their side of the globe. No way he's going to reduce our footprint in the Persian Gulf, more likely we'll build even more bases and make them pay for it.

Thinking about it some more, and given his response to Prince Alwaleed last month, perhaps he'd threaten to remove the 5th fleet and get the Saudis to begin taking responsibility for their own security more seriously. But only as a bargaining tactic, since I doubt oil will stay cheap for very long or we could ever depend on them to keep the region stable without us. More likely he'd pull us out of South Korea and western Europe where our national interests are somewhat lower.

Derail over, I look forward to asking my Navy friends just what the hell happened.

Post: #77

(01-14-2016 01:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:05 PM)robreke Wrote:  That doesn't change the fact of what I said; Obama's foreign policy has been bad and it's lost the US alot of respect in many corners of the world, especially amongst our advesaries.

Respect?!

It's blowing my mind that people actually think that the US was respected underneath the shitstorm that was Bush's presidency. Where the fuck have you been???

Post: #78

A superpower by definition, doesnt need to throw its weight around because everyone knows what happens if they fuck with it. Think Chara in the NHL. Unfortunately, the US is a superpower in hardware and technology only. Fighting spirit? The us populace is simply tired of this shit. Unless there is a threat on our borders or an attack on the homeland, there is no gusto left for this shit. There is a disconnect between politics, foreign policy, the military, and what the people want. We can all form our own opinions on why.

How this was handle is perfectly ok. Those boats were most likely on a reconnaissance mission attempting to see what Iran is doing on those islands. Its a great place to shit on Saudia Arabia from. Iran isn't to be fucked with. The Mid east is rapidly changing and Iran is about to be a global force. There is a reason the US gov't is giving them $150 billion because we want to cozy up with them in a few years time. However, Iranian leadership despises the US for the middling we did back in the 50s and supporting Iraq to attack Iran in the 80s. They know they can step on our toes because our goals allow it.

Obama is a more kumbaya type leader. Whether this is good or bad is up to you. However, he isn't a fighter and doesn't project strength unless he is attacking traditional american values. The world leaders know this so they can harmlessly mess with him when they want to.

Net net; Saudia Arabia will be out of the "circle of trust" in under a decade. Iran is in. This is a good thing; a normal american has so much more in common with a normal iranian than a saudi.

Post: #79

(01-14-2016 01:36 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:05 PM)robreke Wrote:  That doesn't change the fact of what I said; Obama's foreign policy has been bad and it's lost the US alot of respect in many corners of the world, especially amongst our advesaries.

Respect?!

It's blowing my mind that people actually think that the US was respected underneath the shitstorm that was Bush's presidency. Where the fuck have you been???

^@ Prince of Persia wrote "Where the fuck have you been???"

America.


Where the fuck you been? Persia?

Post: #80

(01-14-2016 02:00 PM)greekgod Wrote:  A superpower by definition, doesnt need to throw its weight around because everyone knows what happens if they fuck with it. Think Chara in the NHL. Unfortunately, the US is a superpower in hardware and technology only. Fighting spirit? The us populace is simply tired of this shit. Unless there is a threat on our borders or an attack on the homeland, there is no gusto left for this shit. There is a disconnect between politics, foreign policy, the military, and what the people want. We can all form our own opinions on why.

How this was handle is perfectly ok. Those boats were most likely on a reconnaissance mission attempting to see what Iran is doing on those islands. Its a great place to shit on Saudia Arabia from. Iran isn't to be fucked with. The Mid east is rapidly changing and Iran is about to be a global force. There is a reason the US gov't is giving them $150 billion because we want to cozy up with them in a few years time. However, Iranian leadership despises the US for the middling we did back in the 50s and supporting Iraq to attack Iran in the 80s. They know they can step on our toes because our goals allow it.

Obama is a more kumbaya type leader. Whether this is good or bad is up to you. However, he isn't a fighter and doesn't project strength unless he is attacking traditional american values. The world leaders know this so they can harmlessly mess with him when they want to.

Net net; Saudia Arabia will be out of the "circle of trust" in under a decade. Iran is in. This is a good thing; a normal american has so much more in common with a normal iranian than a saudi.

Amen.
We will be seeing Israel, Iran, and America unite against the common enemy (Gulf Arabs) in the coming years.
The current regime in Iran is incredibly destabilized, and there are plenty of silent revolutions going on in people's homes, cars, on social media, etc. You can't just impose the religion of the Arabs on Iran and expect it to blow over.

Post: #81

(01-14-2016 02:14 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:36 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:05 PM)robreke Wrote:  That doesn't change the fact of what I said; Obama's foreign policy has been bad and it's lost the US alot of respect in many corners of the world, especially amongst our advesaries.

Respect?!

It's blowing my mind that people actually think that the US was respected underneath the shitstorm that was Bush's presidency. Where the fuck have you been???

^@ Prince of Persia wrote "Where the fuck you been?"

America.


Where the fuck you been? Persia?

Supporting the Bush Doctrine blindly makes one anti-American/freedom/democracy/diplomacy in my book. The fact that hardly any other countries supported Bush's invasion of Iraq just goes to show that we did NOT invade for the right reasons; do you honestly think that leaders like George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. would have supported it? Over their dead bodies. We found no WMDs or terrorists in Iraq; all we did was effectively create ISIS (and yes, Obama is partially to blame for this as well). If you actually gave a fuck about your country, you would admit that those invasions were a big ass mistake that were a cover for the massive plumping up of Cheney and Co.'s bank accounts.

Post: #82

(01-14-2016 02:20 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 02:14 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:36 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:05 PM)robreke Wrote:  That doesn't change the fact of what I said; Obama's foreign policy has been bad and it's lost the US alot of respect in many corners of the world, especially amongst our advesaries.

Respect?!

It's blowing my mind that people actually think that the US was respected underneath the shitstorm that was Bush's presidency. Where the fuck have you been???

^@ Prince of Persia wrote "Where the fuck you been?"

America.


Where the fuck you been? Persia?

Supporting the Bush Doctrine blindly makes one anti-American/freedom/democracy/diplomacy in my book. The fact that hardly any other countries supported Bush's invasion of Iraq just goes to show that we did NOT invade for the right reasons; do you honestly think that leaders like George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. would have supported it? Over their dead bodies. We found no WMDs or terrorists in Iraq; all we did was effectively create ISIS (and yes, Obama is partially to blame for this as well). If you actually gave a fuck about your country, you would admit that those invasions were a big ass mistake that were a cover for the massive plumping up of Cheney and Co.'s bank accounts.

Did you actually read some of my last posts on here? I said that Bush made bad mistakes and I was disappointed in him as a President. Wrote it in plain English. I don't know how more clear it could be.

I don't support the Bush doctrine and thought his invasion was a mistake and history has shown that it is. Go back and read my posts.

In addition if you gave a damn about your country and knew much about long term history, you'd see what Obama is doing is going to run this country into the ground eventually if left unchecked.

Before you start casting aspersions, actually read what someone writes instead of assuming just because they're anti - Obama they must have been pro Bush. I know we're basically run by an oligarchy in the US which includes both Repubicans and Dems. In my opinion, Bush and the Iraq invasion were harmful to our place in the world and the US, but in terms of having a blatant quest to transform the US into a socialist model, Obama has been more destructive in that regard.

Post: #83

(01-14-2016 02:31 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 02:20 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 02:14 PM)robreke Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:36 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 01:12 PM)TigerMandingo Wrote:  Respect?!

It's blowing my mind that people actually think that the US was respected underneath the shitstorm that was Bush's presidency. Where the fuck have you been???

^@ Prince of Persia wrote "Where the fuck you been?"

America.


Where the fuck you been? Persia?

Supporting the Bush Doctrine blindly makes one anti-American/freedom/democracy/diplomacy in my book. The fact that hardly any other countries supported Bush's invasion of Iraq just goes to show that we did NOT invade for the right reasons; do you honestly think that leaders like George Washington, Teddy Roosevelt, etc. would have supported it? Over their dead bodies. We found no WMDs or terrorists in Iraq; all we did was effectively create ISIS (and yes, Obama is partially to blame for this as well). If you actually gave a fuck about your country, you would admit that those invasions were a big ass mistake that were a cover for the massive plumping up of Cheney and Co.'s bank accounts.

Did you actually read some of my last posts on here? I said that Bush made bad mistakes and I was disappointed in him as a President. Wrote it in plain English. I don't know how more clear it could be.

I don't support the Bush doctrine and thought his invasion was a mistake and history has shown that it is. Go back and read my posts.

In addition if you gave a damn about your country and knew much about long term history, you'd see what Obama is doing is going to run this country into the ground eventually if left unchecked.

Before you start casting aspersions, actually read what someone writes instead of assuming just because they're anti - Obama they must have been pro Bush. I know we're basically run by an oligarchy in the US which includes both Repubicans and Dems. In my opinion, Bush and the Iraq invasion were harmful to our place in the world and the US, but in terms of having a blatant quest to transform the US into a socialist model, Obama has been more destructive in that regard.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Another 4 years of McCain/Romney would have been a continuation of the Bush administration. Obama was the lesser of two evils and I applaud him for keeping us out of war like he promised; if you think that him not meddling in the ME is going to "run this country into the ground", I would advise you to reread what you just said regarding Bush: "his invasion was a mistake and history has shown that it is". Our options were basically limited to interventionism vs. isolationism, and America as a whole voted for the latter; we knew what we were signing up for.

I'm not an Obama fan either, but I fail to see how the US is a "socialist model". You may think that the US appears weak for not stepping up to the plate regarding ISIS, but in reality, invading would have been 100x worse. We will forever remain the strongest country in the world, and acting tactfully & peacefully will help maintain that image, not destroy it.

Post: #84

But Obama has not been isolationist at all. Under his rule, USA has meddled in every significant world conflict or tension, from Libya to Ukraine to Syria to China. The fact that there has been no formal declaration of war against a specific country doesn't change the truth: that Obama has embroiled the US in even more wars than Bush.

Obama will be remembered for one thing and one thing only: the impossible feat of making the world an even more fucked up place than it had been under Bush.

Post: #85

(01-14-2016 03:23 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  But Obama has not been isolationist at all. Under his rule, USA has meddled in every significant world conflict or tension, from Libya to Ukraine to Syria to China. The fact that there has been no formal declaration of war against a specific country doesn't change the truth: that Obama has embroiled the US in even more wars than Bush.

Obama will be remembered for one thing and one thing only: the impossible feat of making the world an even more fucked up place than it had been under Bush.

^You just explained in better way what I was basically trying to communicate.

Post: #86

Persia, you are fully wrong on Obama being a settling force in the world.

1. He didn't run on an anti war platform. He just ran an anti Afghanistan platform. He created big power vacuums in Iraq and Afghanistan which led to ISIS and Syria. This was actually the worst possible result because we didnt walk away from a sunk cost fully; we've kept resources and troops there but not enough to cement the work we did prior. Massive fuck up.

2. Romney isn't a warhawk. He's an economy guy. Him and Bush, aside from commas in bank accounts, have very little in common.

3. Obama is a community organizer from the school of Saul Alinsky. Everything he touches turns to socialist, subversive shit. Foreign policy and domestic policy have minimal affect on each other. This country is heading to socialism whether you recognize it or not.

The world is less safe and America is weaker socially, economically, unitywise, and demographically than before.

Stop thinking in terms of republican vs. democrat. Real world don't work like that.

Post: #87

(01-14-2016 04:15 PM)greekgod Wrote:  Persia, you are fully wrong on Obama being a settling force in the world.

1. He didn't run on an anti war platform. He just ran an anti Afghanistan platform. He created big power vacuums in Iraq and Afghanistan which led to ISIS and Syria. This was actually the worst possible result because we didnt walk away from a sunk cost fully; we've kept resources and troops there but not enough to cement the work we did prior. Massive fuck up.

2. Romney isn't a warhawk. He's an economy guy. Him and Bush, aside from commas in bank accounts, have very little in common.

3. Obama is a community organizer from the school of Saul Alinsky. Everything he touches turns to socialist, subversive shit. Foreign policy and domestic policy have minimal affect on each other. This country is heading to socialism whether you recognize it or not.

The world is less safe and America is weaker socially, economically, unitywise, and demographically than before.

Stop thinking in terms of republican vs. democrat. Real world don't work like that.

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. My opinion is just that Obama was one of the better choices we had in terms of stopping wars, and I would take his foreign policy over Bush's any day; I say that as a Trump supporter. Romney would have gone out of his way to pad the pockets of the elites just like Bush.

Post: #88

(01-14-2016 03:23 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  But Obama has not been isolationist at all. Under his rule, USA has meddled in every significant world conflict or tension, from Libya to Ukraine to Syria to China. The fact that there has been no formal declaration of war against a specific country doesn't change the truth: that Obama has embroiled the US in even more wars than Bush.

Obama will be remembered for one thing and one thing only: the impossible feat of making the world an even more fucked up place than it had been under Bush.

I respectfully disagree with that last statement. It's not possible to fuck the world up as much as Bush did. Obama could have been leagues better, and I'm disappointed in his "lead from behind" modus operandi. His presidency has been primarily about not becoming the next Bush, and less about him actually establishing his own viewpoints...aka he's a sitting duck. In the end though, it comes down to choosing between war vs. no war, and IMO Obama has stuck to his guns.

Post: #89

So Libya didn't happen. OK.

Post: #90

(01-14-2016 04:21 PM)Prince of Persia Wrote:  

(01-14-2016 04:15 PM)greekgod Wrote:  Persia, you are fully wrong on Obama being a settling force in the world.

1. He didn't run on an anti war platform. He just ran an anti Afghanistan platform. He created big power vacuums in Iraq and Afghanistan which led to ISIS and Syria. This was actually the worst possible result because we didnt walk away from a sunk cost fully; we've kept resources and troops there but not enough to cement the work we did prior. Massive fuck up.

2. Romney isn't a warhawk. He's an economy guy. Him and Bush, aside from commas in bank accounts, have very little in common.

3. Obama is a community organizer from the school of Saul Alinsky. Everything he touches turns to socialist, subversive shit. Foreign policy and domestic policy have minimal affect on each other. This country is heading to socialism whether you recognize it or not.

The world is less safe and America is weaker socially, economically, unitywise, and demographically than before.

Stop thinking in terms of republican vs. democrat. Real world don't work like that.

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. My opinion is just that Obama was one of the better choices we had in terms of stopping wars, and I would take his foreign policy over Bush's any day; I say that as a Trump supporter. Romney would have gone out of his way to pad the pockets of the elites just like Bush.

Obama didn't stop any wars. The war in Iraq was done. The occupation of Iraq was ongoing. We should have never been there in the first place but if you are going to change a country, its a multidecade, generation commitment. He created power vacuums and now ISIS is running roughshod over Iraq and Syria. ISIS is displacing people which is sending them into Europe and accelerating a deteriorating demographic situation along with endangering those societies.

So by not committing to the course and having the nuts to do what was needed, maintain order in a war torn country, we now have a broken Syria, a Europe being pillaged from within, and the worlds biggest terrorist landmass.

This is what happens when you aren't decisive and think strategically long term.

He didn't stop shit; he mismanaged a delicate world and a major war could break out at any time. And, I didn't even cover Ukraine, Libya, or Egypt.

This is all spoken by a harmless libertarian with that believes isolationism is the best policy. However, if you are going to go into a region, you move swift, with goals, and finish the job.

Post: #91

Hey guys and port au prince I wasn't trying to cause drama on page two and my phone autocorrect my stuff here I thought Iran was holding those guys as a power play.

Post: #92

They did make a power play. Propaganda is ultra-potent today, more than in Vietnam when our guys were tortured to sign ridiculous confessions.

Edit: spelling

Post: #93

(01-13-2016 11:01 PM)White God Factor Wrote:  I will add there are some intelligent lads on here.

But they're completely drowned out by low-IQ established members like Mech. (What does this guy do aside from making asinine jokes?)

Honestly, I should start a proper forum for the decent guys. A forum with actual free speech.

What a fucking novel concept that would be...

Novel? You mean like reddit or 4chan?

The most amusing thing is that you live on the NNF, which has much freer speech, but you can't seem to see a link between that and its massively smaller community and traffic. Funny thing is that back when I was just a lurker, I actually found this forum via an NNF datasheet, but I ended up signing up here because unlike NNF, it isn't shit.

Part of the reason RVF isn't shit is because the admins keep clipping shit-talkers. People don't want to hang out in a place full of shit talking because there's no actual value in that. The opposite of a bunch of unpleasant shit-talking rabble is called a 'community', which necessitates long-standing veterans to provide a sense of order, and in turn who need at least enough deference that you can't attack their characters. It's actually become more lenient now, since the Sp5 incident happened and he was vindicated by the Migrant Invasion thread, plus the new stoic moderator that's been brought in. If you still can't fit in here, the problem can only be you.

It's very simple, SpecialEd, you can argue these things as much as you want, as long as you stick to the ideas and avoid character attacks. Otherwise, you get banned. The reason you go through so many accounts is because you don't like that -- you just want to barge in here, shit on everyone, and show everyone what a big swinging dick you are.

Good luck trying to build a new forum that gets any registrations. The difference between you and Roosh is that he actually tries to help people. He leaves a trail of value, telling everyone about both his successes AND failures -- being humble, candid, and informative. You just want to mouth off about how awesome you are, and never help anyone. Why would anyone follow you to your new free-speech forum? So the host can tell them how shit they are, and offer no help whatsoever? Sounds great man, I can see it getting popular real fast. Perhaps you should come back down from the clouds, do a bit of introspection, and have a go at not being an antisocial asshole.

Post: #94

Another reason why so many patriotic Military, Police and Veterans strongly support Mr. Trump:

His closing statement:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/us/pol...ebate.html

BARTIROMO: Mr. Donald Trump?

TRUMP: I stood yesterday with 75 construction workers. They’re tough, they’re strong, they’re great people. Half of them had tears pouring down their face. They were watching the humiliation of our young ten sailors, sitting on the floor with their knees in a begging position, their hands up.

And Iranian wise guys having guns to their heads. It was a terrible sight. A terrible sight. And the only reason we got them back is because we owed them with a stupid deal, $150 billion. If I’m president, there won’t be stupid deals anymore.

We will make America great again. We will win on everything we do. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

I was the brunt of some disparaging comments upthread by some Oz and Brit allies who seem to relish the fact that the Iranians knocked the USA down a peg or two.

I was going to reply but have no time for a personal pissing contest here. What I will say is that our NO SURRENDER protocols will be enforced under a Neomasculine pro American patriotic Trump administration.

On nuke boats we had real severe protocols in place for any commanders that would willfully surrender a US Man of War Naval Vessel - Fact is this is an act of treason to surrender any armed combat vessel period - all I can think of is the Obama National Insecurity Counsel Feminists ordered the Officer in Charge to violate NO SURRENDER protocols and surrender as to not upset the Iranian scum bags and hurt their wittle fweelings. Obama's and Kerry's apologize for America first fingerprints were all over this humiliation.

I love that Mr. Trump a true American patriot was as angry and disgusted as I was... as for polls from France Germany UK and Spain that do not like the USA and consider us a threat to world peace - eff these surrender firsters - if they are not willing to protect their countries and cultures from a Riyadh engineered mass radicalized Sunni islamists racist invasion of Europe from Pakistan, Pan-Arabia and Islamist African countries then it is time to consider leaving NATO - why should the USA be compelled by treaty to protect and defend ultra liberal Marxist Militant Femininst pro LGBTQ SJWs who will NOT protect themselves.

Post: #95

I don't understand how some of y'all are upset.

Many countries would do the same thing.

Every once in a while , North Korean boats cross in into Korean waters. The boats are treated the same. Occupant are searched along with the boat. Sometimes warning shots are fired.

North Korea has, in the past cross the line with innocent boats to test defense..
This led to the Second Battle of Yeonpyeong where more than ten sailors died.

Iran has every right to detain and search a ship that claims to have mistakenly came into it's waters.
America has no right to beat it's chest at the event.

No one can argue that they were treated inhumane because it looked embarrassing.
But after our incident with abu Ghraib.

The situation was embarrassing.. The ships command failed them. But the apology was correct.

When you are wrong..admit you are wrong.

Post: #96

Lets be clear we have over 30,000 Troops severely maimed and wounded by IEDs and EFDs manufactured in fucking IRAN - they have been conducting an ongoing campaign of war and terror against US Troops directly and via their Iraq Shiite proxies for over a decade now and the Marxist Socialist Militant Feminist Appeaser in Chief - the most disgraceful President in our history is about to reward them with a $150 Billion bribe to make his legacy look good with a Nuclear Treaty guaranteed they will now just buy their nukes from Pakistan with their $150 Billion windfall and use them against the US and our allies - this guarantees Nuclear Mushroom clouds over Israel, the Gulf Emirates and the EU and UK and possibly the USA... nothing less than high treason and a war crime against our own troops and country. I would blast that Farsi Island rock as starters for Iran's treachery and then make sure they never see a dime of that money. Then prosecute Obama and Kerry as the treasonous traitors they are.

Post: #97

There's plenty of evil that Obama has done, but not attacking Iran is not one of them.

Post: #98

In the last comment Deepdiver is wrong. I had my face in the gravel several times in Iraq due to rocket attacks by Iranian supported militias. A couple of friends and co-workers were killed by Shia miliitas. It is war.

It is not like this happened in Mexico, however. The USA had tens of thousands of troops on the western, eastern, and southern borders of Iran. Many prominent neoconservatives have wanted "regime change" in Iran. They were in control during the Bush administration. Despite the fact that there were more evil countries, Iran was called out by Bush as part of "the Axis of Evil." Some said Iran was next on the list after Iraq.

Because Bush did not take the offered opportunity to cut a deal with the Iranians after 9/11 and instead threatened them, the Iranians recognized that degrading and impeding the US in Iraq was a good defensive move.

Even though they tried to kill me, I don't take it personally.

Post: #99

Just a little input:
There is a strong tendency to show symbolic superiority originating from Iranian state traditions.

They always resort to shit like this. They make foreign ambassadors sit in lower chairs, they place offensive symbols and maps in the room, you get the point. For example, a neighboring country's officials visit an Iranian official, routine stuff. Iranians hang a "greater Iran" map on the wall to... I don't know what their motives are, really. Most of the time it's counterproductive.

You may also look at Iran's actions from this angle.

Post: #100

Repeat 30,000 US Troops severely maimed and wounded by IEDs and EFDs manufactured in fucking IRAN over the past 10+ years - total act of war ignored by the current CiC over the past 7 years - who then rewarded Iran with a Sultan's ransom ten times over for signing a toothless treaty... ok so all water under the bridge you say let bygones be bygones and while we are at it lets try to all just get along...

Now ask yourself how many Pakistani, Russian, Chinese, North Korean, British or French Nukes Iran can now buy with $150 Billion USD?

Insert Mushroom Clouds emoji here.