Post: #26

Don't fight the beta, make it your subordinate. The beta is an important scar to keep with you. It reminds us where we're from and how far we've come.

If EE has showed me anything its that there's an abundance of beautiful feminine women. Whenever things go south with a girl I like, my inner beta gets upset. This emotion serves as a reminder to my inner alpha that its time to approach the next gorgeous girl I see. It doesn't matter if she hooks or not, all that matters is that cold approaching = alpha.

It's amazing how one act of alpha completely mutes any feeling of beta.

Post: #27

Being Beta is programmed into young males from the day they are born. It takes a long time, even after the pill and even with constant work and self-improvement, to undo and forget everything we have been taught. We are essentially being ``deprogrammed'', much the way that doctors and therapist once had to deprogram cult followers in the late 70s. That type of deprogramming isnt done in a day, a week or even a year.

Very few men truly destroy the Beta inside.

Post: #28

(01-11-2016 01:57 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  He sometimes raises his ugly head.

He often raises his ugly head.

That's where I am at this point in time, about two and a half years after realising I had hit a dead end. I already had a notch count in the upper 20s at the time yet I was not game-aware. I took action because I was repeatedly taking too many hits to my confidence and ego, due to high lack of awareness. Plus I always wondered why I was always settling and NEVER ever getting the girls I really wanted.

It has been very hard starting to make the various changes to my behaviour and thinking. Two and a half years is definitely a short time, since there are so many things to work on and fighting my conditioning and the effects of socialisation.

As has been said, the way forward is keeping things simple, do the basics well and make the small improvements that can add up.
It's time for me to follow the advice.

Post: #29

Arent 'beta' characteristics essential for a successful LTR?

Post: #30

(01-14-2016 07:01 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Arent 'beta' characteristics essential for a successful LTR?

If you have to consciously force yourself do a beta type thing, then it’s a pretty solid indicator that you have successfully re-programmed that particular behavior.

Some examples:

I have to consciously force myself to occasionally use ONE smiley emoticon in a text or email with a girl that has been using them with me all day.
I have to consciously force myself to give a girl a very small gift after she has already given me several big ones.

I have to consciously force myself not to kino escalate with a girl cheating on her man when we are in public places.
I have to consciously force myself not to slap my girl's ass when she’s with her parents.


When you are faking beta a LOT more than you are faking alpha, (fake it till you make it) then you really have made it.

Post: #31

(01-14-2016 07:01 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Arent 'beta' characteristics essential for a successful LTR?

Simple answer is no.

You can very well be an alpha and have a successful LTR. The difference is the relationship is led on your terms not hers.

You don't do everything she wants, base the relationship on her wants.

The only reason this relationship exists is because you wanted it to. She follows your lead and understands what to expect in the relationship. She chased the relationship.

Of course you still do nice and fun things with her but that is on your terms. If she nags you about doing something over and over again don't do it.

If she doesn't nag you. Reward her with something. A trip, a present, a night out, a letter. Anything. It doesn't matter because you did it on your terms and she earned it by being loyal and caring, not a nagging, anti depressant riddled psycho.

As long as you are recognized as the undisputed leader and you lead her properly there is no reason you can't be alpha in a LTR.

Post: #32

7 years and still a work in progress...

Post: #33

to OP

In my mind - the heart and soul of the beta is to be a people pleaser - to derive your own self worth only from other peoples reactions to you. This is why in our heart of hearts, many players, PUAs and red pill guys are either very much beta or trying to get rid of "beta tendencies". Be honest - how many of us here have had our nights "ruined" because we had no success with women that night? I know I've felt that way. Even though I could get with women and got a lot better over the years - women still dictated my mood - If i fucked a girl I was happy, if I got rejected I was sad.

The only way to get rid of that is to have pride in yourself and your accomplishments, a sort of silent, stoic pride. Like the old tree in the woods.

• If a tree fall in the woods, but no one is around to hear it, does it actually make a sound?
• If a weightlifter benches 405, but no one is around to Instagram it, does the rep actually count?
• If you start your own business, but no one writes about it, does the business make money?
• If you paint a painting, but only keep it for yourself in a private room - does the painting exist?
  

The answer to all of those questions is YES.Go out there, do something you want to do, and allow yourself to feel good about it.
Notice the wording. Allow. That was intentional, because too many of us only feel good about ourselves when other people tell us it's ok.

It's not our fault - we were trained this way. Many of us grew up in the "just be good and some day you will have a wife and family" mentality - expecting that reward, but then realizing that we will never get it, but still hoping, because that's how we were raised.

For me, the last of my "beta tendencies" went away as soon as my doctor told me I had cancer. Things just snapped. I knew what I had to do. I knew the journey I was on. I knew the stakes. One persons opinion of me couldn't change a damn thing.

It shifted my entire mindset. It made me realize what's important. It made me love myself more. Long story short - I am not the same guy I was a year ago. Granted, I didn't "accomplish" anything, but I did have a deep personal experience none the less.

My experience was thrust onto me. It doesnt have to be this way. You can go and seek your own experiences, ones that will bring you your own satisfaction, your own inner peace.

And on that day - the beta will die off forever

Post: #34

Still going..

My attitude has changed, but I still have a hard time with body language, I don't use enough eye contact and it makes me look insecure.

I don't feel particularly insecure, but it is proving to be a hard habit to break. Reprogramming your instincts isn't easy. It is an automatic behavior that you have to keep in your head and consciously adjust at all times.

I have a new outlook on life but I'm not getting that "congruence" that we're all looking for.

Post: #35

Reframe.

How many years will it take to fully destroy ALL my old beta habits.

Post: #36

It's a struggle. I only started a year ago but its still an uphill battle trying to unlearn a few things. I don't mind having some of the traits but it can also cause a lot of frustrations on that journey towards building an alpha profile.

Post: #37

It took roughly three years for me also, which is a slow enough learning curve. I actually found reading helped open my eyes even more than my first hand experiences, Bang and The Rational Male really were the last few nails in the coffin. I can honestly credit Roosh and Rollo for helping me retain my sanity.

Mind you, reading alone is futile if you aren't applying the teachings to real life. It ties back to empiricism.

Post: #38

It will never end and that is ok. I'm just over two years in and finally accepting this.

Beta vs Alpha dichotomy is something completely different than blue pill vs. red pill.

The reason I ended up here is because I was a social Alpha with beta escalation problems and moral alpha traits. It haunted my life and the past still comes up sometimes and says "gotchya!" I had the most important thing going for me but couldn't get past my other limitations.

Its all situational.

Vince McMahon on the trading floor is a gamma. Vince McHahon with a microphone in the squared circle, we talking 80/90's Vince, is the pinnacle of alpha. Charles Barkley on the golf course was omega then a try hard beta and now is something else. Charles Barkley on the BBall court, NBA Tonight or whatever that show is, and dispensing life wisdom is Alpha.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. If we listened to our instincts and didn't suffer from years of social conditioning then we probably wouldn't even be on this website but we are.

Now blue bill ideals and red pill reality, thats more of a bitch. It never stops popping up. I still get oneitis, my imagination loves it, and still let the brain go romance drunk sometimes. However, its contained within my skull and I'm not even sure that is healthy. I should probably express these emotions in some manly, idgaf way. Red Pill shit popped up a ton with my mom over christmas. What a treacherous, dualistic, ego inflated bitch. She doesn't even know she is though because in her mind she is doing whats right for some of one of my loser ass sisters who I could write book about all the red pill truths she is a testament to.

Is it beta when I could correct someone about an issue but chose to shut my mouth? Was I beta for backing down or alpha for only caring about myself?

Depends what you care about.

I think when you swallow enough red pill and don't fight it; beta takes a back seat where you want it to. However, if you don't care about something and try to be alpha like for instance captain save a hoe in the face of danger you might just be beta because you acted under societal obligations.

Beta is social fabric. The world needs beta just as much as it needs alpha. Alpha unites the betas and betas cement the alphas voice. Itzaaaaa circle, symbolism.

Anyways, IMHO, 2-4 years max to digest redpill/neomasculine ideas. Lifetime of deciding what you care about and if the juice is worth the squeeze on the alpha beta dichotomy.

Post: #39

(01-14-2016 12:58 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  to OP

In my mind - the heart and soul of the beta is to be a people pleaser - to derive your own self worth only from other peoples reactions to you. This is why in our heart of hearts, many players, PUAs and red pill guys are either very much beta or trying to get rid of "beta tendencies". Be honest - how many of us here have had our nights "ruined" because we had no success with women that night? I know I've felt that way. Even though I could get with women and got a lot better over the years - women still dictated my mood - If i fucked a girl I was happy, if I got rejected I was sad.

The only way to get rid of that is to have pride in yourself and your accomplishments, a sort of silent, stoic pride. Like the old tree in the woods.

• If a tree fall in the woods, but no one is around to hear it, does it actually make a sound?
• If a weightlifter benches 405, but no one is around to Instagram it, does the rep actually count?
• If you start your own business, but no one writes about it, does the business make money?
• If you paint a painting, but only keep it for yourself in a private room - does the painting exist?
  

The answer to all of those questions is YES.Go out there, do something you want to do, and allow yourself to feel good about it.
Notice the wording. Allow. That was intentional, because too many of us only feel good about ourselves when other people tell us it's ok.

It's not our fault - we were trained this way. Many of us grew up in the "just be good and some day you will have a wife and family" mentality - expecting that reward, but then realizing that we will never get it, but still hoping, because that's how we were raised.

For me, the last of my "beta tendencies" went away as soon as my doctor told me I had cancer. Things just snapped. I knew what I had to do. I knew the journey I was on. I knew the stakes. One persons opinion of me couldn't change a damn thing.

It shifted my entire mindset. It made me realize what's important. It made me love myself more. Long story short - I am not the same guy I was a year ago. Granted, I didn't "accomplish" anything, but I did have a deep personal experience none the less.

My experience was thrust onto me. It doesnt have to be this way. You can go and seek your own experiences, ones that will bring you your own satisfaction, your own inner peace.

And on that day - the beta will die off forever

Inspiring KS, would love to see more of this

Post: #40

I had a small victory over one of my beta habits the other night at a club. Chatting up this pretty cute latina outside smoking, and an older black guy approaches her - I don't know whether he was a panhandler or running his own style of game or just a random person on drugs; he's spinning her a yarn about how he's 50 years old, he's done time upstate, he can see the darkness in her soul, and all this stuff.

So I step back and let him do his thing for a while. The old me would have waited around thinking "Gosh. I hope that tough man doesn't hurt that young lady! I need to wait around to make sure he doesn't get aggressive."

But this time I'm watching him instead, trying to see if there's anything to learn. And I realize "Hey, this bitch could have turned her back on this guy and bounced inside with me to the club ten minutes ago. But she's actually still standing here letting this guy do his act, and she's eating it up!"

So after a little while, realizing that I will probably never be able to appropriate the game style of a 50 year old ex-con, I just shrug and turn around and leave her there.

Post: #41

(01-14-2016 12:58 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  to OP

In my mind - the heart and soul of the beta is to be a people pleaser - to derive your own self worth only from other peoples reactions to you. This is why in our heart of hearts, many players, PUAs and red pill guys are either very much beta or trying to get rid of "beta tendencies". Be honest - how many of us here have had our nights "ruined" because we had no success with women that night? I know I've felt that way. Even though I could get with women and got a lot better over the years - women still dictated my mood - If i fucked a girl I was happy, if I got rejected I was sad.

The only way to get rid of that is to have pride in yourself and your accomplishments, a sort of silent, stoic pride. Like the old tree in the woods.

• If a tree fall in the woods, but no one is around to hear it, does it actually make a sound?
• If a weightlifter benches 405, but no one is around to Instagram it, does the rep actually count?
• If you start your own business, but no one writes about it, does the business make money?
• If you paint a painting, but only keep it for yourself in a private room - does the painting exist?
  

The answer to all of those questions is YES.Go out there, do something you want to do, and allow yourself to feel good about it.
Notice the wording. Allow. That was intentional, because too many of us only feel good about ourselves when other people tell us it's ok.

It's not our fault - we were trained this way. Many of us grew up in the "just be good and some day you will have a wife and family" mentality - expecting that reward, but then realizing that we will never get it, but still hoping, because that's how we were raised.

For me, the last of my "beta tendencies" went away as soon as my doctor told me I had cancer. Things just snapped. I knew what I had to do. I knew the journey I was on. I knew the stakes. One persons opinion of me couldn't change a damn thing.

It shifted my entire mindset. It made me realize what's important. It made me love myself more. Long story short - I am not the same guy I was a year ago. Granted, I didn't "accomplish" anything, but I did have a deep personal experience none the less.

My experience was thrust onto me. It doesnt have to be this way. You can go and seek your own experiences, ones that will bring you your own satisfaction, your own inner peace.

And on that day - the beta will die off forever

This hit home and is very inspiring.

This is the mindset of someone who has truly taken and digested the Red Pill.