Post: #51

(01-09-2016 07:57 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 02:03 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Nuance! look at that fucking scoundrel on the right.
You think the suit is hurting him?



You can wear an expensive suit and pick up during the day, but you need to think deeply about what you're doing.

This is not one of those
"If the suit fits, I hit slits"

Less black and white, more thinking about your actions.

WIA

Guy the left, his main problem is his posture. Unbutton another button on that blue shirt, stop leaning into the guy on the right, would look great himself. Those high waisted trousers are spot on. He knows what he is doing. If the two men's posture switched, the guy on the right would look bad.

Overall, I think suit game looks great on both of them, main difference is between the ears.

Here are the shoes that the guy on the right is wearing:
/thread-26488...pid1013626

Post: #52

In some news, at our work party Friday night, people thought "hey let's fuck with Cobra's pocket square. " They took it out and dicked around with it, even going so far as messin up my fold. I forgot about it because I was socializing. It was one of my best ones.

No impact to my personality except for the fact that I was genuinely disappointed at this cockamamy behavior.

Post: #53

(01-05-2016 02:15 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  I think some are confusing "over dressed" with "dressed well". You should always aim to be dressed "well", whatever that calls for, being better dressed than the average guy can have a huge positive impact. However, you absolutely can be over dressed and it can and does limit you if you do so, depending on where you are located.

Yes. Focus on being the best-dressed guy there. Don't wear a tux to a rodeo.

I agree with, but also disagree with a lot of the comments made on this thread, given that I'm using the context of being in a large city, not Omaha or Calgary.

Age of the girl is irrelevant to whether or not you are suited up. 19, 23, 27 they all like guys in suits. They don't think 'Dad,' they think new, different, interesting, and then your game shows them that you are cool and fun and can give them an experience they haven't had before. This isn't theory, this is my last 3 years of experience in suit game with dozens of college girls. Your SMV goes up immediately. Girls are intrigued by pocket squares, cufflinks, nice ties. And I've never seen the 'gold-digger' mentality in the college ranks. That's more the 28-35 range.

The two main things to focus on are fit and congruence. If suits are not tailored well, you shouldn't have bothered. If they make you feel insecure instead of confident, don't wear them.

If you think wearing a suit means having to wear a dark navy, white shirt, and repp tie you need to expand your horizons.

Avoid, especially if you're 25+, Zara and H+M. Terrible quality, poor fit. Why are you attempting to chase the fashion of the moment? Learn style, not fashion. Don't dress like the 25 other guys that just got the same clothes there. That day. Women won't give you extra points for having the latest poor imitations from H+M.

They will when you are confident in your look and better dressed than the 'fast-fashion' wannabes, and the untucked shirt, jeans/khakis, loafer/Chus squadron. Why are you dressing to blend in? Getting her attention with a really solid style makes it easy to pick up on her IOIs, and you will get approached a lot more. And you certainly don't have to spend thousands to look good.

And you don't have to wear a tie - as others have noted and posted, a great fitting jacket, shirt, nice shoes looks great in the right place. WIA posted a great photo of that look. But you should own at least one good suit and one very good pair of shoes.

Someone mentioned they were afraid of looking like they came from work. Why? Lots of people go for drinks after work. Maybe you were working late. Don't be afraid of looking better than the other guys at the bar. Have confidence. If you're afraid of standing out, you need to work on your insecurities, rather than default to a flannel, boots & jeans look.


So, summing up - wear clothes that fit perfectly. Be confident. Be congruent. Quality workmanship is important. Be the best-dressed [not overdressed] guy they see all night. Watch your SMV go up 1-2 points. Most importantly, enjoy the attention.

Post: #54

when I hit up the dive bars for karaoke, I usually wear khakis, a button up shirt and a bow-tie that either matches my shirt or khakis or both. Guys will compliment me and say something like: 'you're the best dressed guy in here' or 'you're classing up the joint' Chicks will compliment me and attempt to adjust the tie. They flirt, I flirt but it generally goes nowhere. I assume it's because my age is showing nowadays. I'm 5 to 10 years older than the people who frequent these joints.

If I hit up spots where folks are my age or above, I don't get any play whatsoever. I tend to be underdressed at those places. Guys wearing suits casually, women in cocktail dresses or gowns. These are the happy hour spots in DC. I just don't have the bankroll to keep up on the fashion.

Post: #55

(01-07-2016 08:06 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Interesting stuff. I tend to dress pretty smart - generally I'll wear chinos or dark jeans, chelsea boots/loafers/smart boat shoes, an open button-down-collar shirt, and a soft jacket still with good shape, or sometimes a livelier tweed jacke (I'm from a 'good', traditional background in England). Real dress down for me is to wear a more country, thicker cotton, work-shirt (usually with some kind of distinctive but classic twist) with a slightly fashionable jumper, with decent jeans like levis, and loafers.

This has been very effective for me, I get much more attention now, I think because it is congruent with my personality. My vibe is far more of the withdrawn intellectual than the fun-loving party boy. When I used to dress like a fun loving party boy, I didn't do particularly well, despite being tall, relatively muscular, and conventionally handsome. It wasn't congruent with my demeanor, and girls could smell it a mile off. They are much more attuned to these things than we are, generally. I clung to that look because it showed that I was fit, and I saw myself as a tough guy (I was a boxer and a soldier). The problem was that because I smiled a lot, was thoughtful, open, and enthusiastic, but withdrawn from normal conversation and only really lighting up at the more substantial stuff, I didn't seem congruent.

Since embracing the wardrobe change, I've also found my natural character developing and showing itself far more regularly. I used to be very charismatic and charming, as a child, but I lost sight of it when I started thinking and dressing like I was something I was not - the party-boy/bad-boy. Because I looked like something I wasn't, I altered my demeanor, and left my good qualities to rot in the weeds, whilst trying to compete with qualities that did not come naturally to me with other guys who were far more congruent.

I think we often underestimate just how much potential our outward presentation can affect how we see ourselves, and how true to our own natures we are.

Good post. What was this other style you were into? What is party boy style to you?

Post: #56

(01-10-2016 10:19 PM)Arkady Rossovich Wrote:  when I hit up the dive bars for karaoke, I usually wear khakis, a button up shirt and a bow-tie that either matches my shirt or khakis or both. Guys will compliment me and say something like: 'you're the best dressed guy in here' or 'you're classing up the joint' Chicks will compliment me and attempt to adjust the tie. They flirt, I flirt but it generally goes nowhere. I assume it's because my age is showing nowadays. I'm 5 to 10 years older than the people who frequent these joints.

Bow ties are usually considered silly in non formal circumstances, chances are you might be getting a bit of respect for pulling it off, but more likely these people are just giving you attention for their own amusement.

For example, as soon as I read "bow tie" in a thread about overdressing, this came to mind:

Post: #57

(01-10-2016 10:33 PM)YardDog Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 08:06 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  Interesting stuff. I tend to dress pretty smart - generally I'll wear chinos or dark jeans, chelsea boots/loafers/smart boat shoes, an open button-down-collar shirt, and a soft jacket still with good shape, or sometimes a livelier tweed jacke (I'm from a 'good', traditional background in England). Real dress down for me is to wear a more country, thicker cotton, work-shirt (usually with some kind of distinctive but classic twist) with a slightly fashionable jumper, with decent jeans like levis, and loafers.

This has been very effective for me, I get much more attention now, I think because it is congruent with my personality. My vibe is far more of the withdrawn intellectual than the fun-loving party boy. When I used to dress like a fun loving party boy, I didn't do particularly well, despite being tall, relatively muscular, and conventionally handsome. It wasn't congruent with my demeanor, and girls could smell it a mile off. They are much more attuned to these things than we are, generally. I clung to that look because it showed that I was fit, and I saw myself as a tough guy (I was a boxer and a soldier). The problem was that because I smiled a lot, was thoughtful, open, and enthusiastic, but withdrawn from normal conversation and only really lighting up at the more substantial stuff, I didn't seem congruent.

Since embracing the wardrobe change, I've also found my natural character developing and showing itself far more regularly. I used to be very charismatic and charming, as a child, but I lost sight of it when I started thinking and dressing like I was something I was not - the party-boy/bad-boy. Because I looked like something I wasn't, I altered my demeanor, and left my good qualities to rot in the weeds, whilst trying to compete with qualities that did not come naturally to me with other guys who were far more congruent.

I think we often underestimate just how much potential our outward presentation can affect how we see ourselves, and how true to our own natures we are.

Good post. What was this other style you were into? What is party boy style to you?

I just wore the usual jeans and a t-shirt look. You know, the dress like everyone else, get results like everyone else thing. Party boy was probably the wrong expression, as I've never had a trendy hair cut, a tattoo or a piercing, so my dress code was mild by comparison. Being from a good background, and well spoken, I was insecure about dressing up, as I wanted to come across as one of the lads, so I always probably looked scruffy, or unremarkable at best, without looking good (other than looking fit and healthy and whatever positive physical attributes I had).

Boxing was very helpful for me in this regard, as I'd always been brought up to be pretty tough (my family are very tough and accomplished (militarily/boxing-wise) indeed on both sides), but given that most of my friends and the circles I moved in were extremely privileged, they were all pretty soft. I had a few friends I could play-scrap with, but I had the beating of them all from an early age, so I didn't really have a meaningful source of feedback. Consequently, I had an idea of myself, a certain sense of my innate ability and the consequences of how I was raised, but no means of testing it or finding out for certain whether I was legitimate, or just pretending to be more dangerous than I really was. This was exacerbated by the fact that I was lucky enough to be born pretty good-looking, but baby faced, so I had many soft friends who assumed I wasn't tough because I was polite and smile-y. Consequently, I had a fairly disassociated sense of self, and was too concerned with trying to appear tough, which, as anyone who has met me would say, is a fruitless endeavor. Once I took up boxing, aged 18, and was able to get meaningful feedback on my resilience and capacity for meanness (albeit within a restrictive rule set), I realised that tough, capable guys that were my equal in an alien environment (as opposed to the men who influenced my upbringing and taught me certain things, who always had my best interests in mind, and were not impartial) felt that I was a capable fighter, and not at all out of place in their company.

This gave me the confidence, and the certainty of self, to dress as I was inclined to. Even after all these years, having done hundreds of rounds with great fighters, been a soldier, and various other things, I still have friends who smoke, drink, don't train and who've never been in a fight tell me they reckon one of their mates is pretty tough and would kick my arse. Before, that would of bothered me, now it just makes me smile. Just part of growing up, I suppose, and perhaps that is why I now find it easier to dress like a grown up.

Post: #58

OK folks, again, thank you for all of you responses. Yesterday I tried a oxblood dress shirt( top two buttons unbuttoned - just like the guy on the right has) in a combination with dark brown chinos and the aforementioned jacket. And with Ray Ban aviators.

Sweet. Mother. Mercy. Approaching was never so easy. And got two numbers.

Now, I have another question. In a club (a normal one, nothing fancy), is wearing a Hawaii shirt (with a good, very colorful design, paired with distressed jeans) a little bit...too much? I have googled a little bit and found many articles which say it is over the top. But...they are written mainly by WBIIGPW (Would Bang If I Get Paid Well) women and manginas. I would be certainly a center of attention...but of what kind?

Thanks!

Post: #59

(01-11-2016 07:33 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  OK folks, again, thank you for all of you responses. Yesterday I tried a oxblood dress shirt( top two buttons unbuttoned - just like the guy on the right has) in a combination with dark brown chinos and the aforementioned jacket. And with Ray Ban aviators.

Sweet. Mother. Mercy. Approaching was never so easy. And got two numbers.

Now, I have another question. In a club (a normal one, nothing fancy), is wearing a Hawaii shirt (with a good, very colorful design, paired with distressed jeans) a little bit...too much? I have googled a little bit and found many articles which say it is over the top. But...they are written mainly by WBIIGPW (Would Bang If I Get Paid Well) women and manginas. I would be certainly a center of attention...but of what kind?

Thanks!

That can be super if you can you can grow a moustache and some hair chest...

   

the 80s must have been awesome ))

But seriously, rocking one of these can only not backfire in a party by the beach or pool in summertime.

Post: #60

Hair chest and beard (in mustache I look like a Latino rapist) are already in my arsenal, my friend.

So basically, you said that this look is good for beach/pool parties but not for your standard club game?

And who is the guy in the picture? Looks like Tom Sellek from Magnum to me - quite a good show!

Post: #61

Don't wear the fuckin Hawaiian shirt bro..

Post: #62

So yeah, I'd say there is. At some point, it looks comically out of place, even if it also communicates 'high status'.

Post: #63

Good thread this has been bugging me for awhile. Here are my outfits from most formal to least formal:

Suit with tie, dress shoes, pocket square
Suit no tie, 2 buttons unbuttoned on shirt, pocket square
Dark jeans, colored shirt, blazer, pocket square
Dark jeans, v neck tee, blazer w square
Jeans, sweater, button down shirt (often too preppy)
Jeans w/ button down shirt tucked
Jeans with v neck sweater (not comfortable so don't do often)
Jeans with untucked shirt (like everyone else)
Jeans with polo
Jeans with v neck tee

Am I missing something here? If I'm going on a date or night out, if I want to stand out either a blazer or sweater is a must?

There are plenty of guys that do the untucked shirt and make it look good but I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong. In the meantime I've been wearing blazers often, but if the venue isn't classy how do I make sure I'm not going to look try hard without blending into the horde of guys with the untucked long sleeve.

Post: #64

@Arado

Sounds like you look like the "better" magazines want you to look.

I'm in the minority here, but you're not really doing yourself any favors by dressing like the catalog.

The guys that are taking up space are either chasing trends or looking like young Republicans, mostly because they're mindless consumers. Of those two, the trend hoppers are in a better position than the guy that looks like he works at J. CREW. because girls are trendy.

Wearing a suit, even a bespoke suit with all of the dandy options, isn't style in and of itself.

I don't think guys get that, because it's not a meme worthy idea. You can't boil down style into a set of precepts.

Reading, studying, watching, trying and failing, finally succeeding

That's how you build a style that stands out.

There are shortcuts, like picking an archetype or an avatar that resonates with you. But that's just step one.

WIA

Post: #65

As always, Archie makes some great points. In addition, you'd be amazed how many 'style' tips in magazines over the years are completely wrong. Not just 'their opinion is wrong' but 180 degrees from the correct thing you should be doing to look your best.

that's why you need to develop your own personal style. Not rely on just the media that told everyone to wear the Regis - same color suit, shirt, tie look for a while. Awful. Simply awful.

Stick with starting out with the basics and you'll do fine. One stylistic foundation is that tie-shirt-suit should go either light to dark or dark to light.

Post: #66

The rakish guy in the photo WIA posted is a good example of how to modulate suit game to a more casual, playful attitude. Some guys have already touched on it in this thread, but I think it's worth elaborating on a bit more.

The great thing with a suit is that it offers a lot of options for you to play that side up. If you're rocking it casually, you probably shouldn't be wearing a tie. Maybe the shirt is unbuttoned one button more than what is considered acceptable or tasteful (like this guy). I think that works well with a higher, wider-cut collar, which is already a little more aggressive and "fuck you." Your breast pocket exists for a reason, and personally I think there's never an excuse to not rock a pocket square - in this case something a little brash and loud, overflowing from the pocket rather than neatly folded. I've seen some guys wearing French cuff shirts without cuff links and make it look alright, but why not some cool cuff links that add a little something? I've a pair of Colt 1911 links that fit the bill nicely. Throw on a slightly wider belt, perhaps with a more aggressive buckle (or none at all if you got pants without loops like this guy - that's equally unexpected, I'd say). Instead of standard dress shoes, a pair of suede loafers or well-aged brogues (bonus points for the canvas detailing on this guy's pair). Under them, some louder "fuck you" socks or even none at all, if it's summer and the shoes are right. If you're into jewelry, a ring or more rugged bracelet might be a nice finishing touch.

See what I mean? With all that together, your image is entirely different from that which an average guy wearing a suit presents, but you're stylish (not fashionable, big difference there) and it's clear you're a man who has his shit together, lives deliberately, and lives for himself (no one is going to be dressing that way for professional reasons). The advantage of a suit other other ways of dressing is that it offers so many different details to tweak and customise to get just right. It's harder to play with everything I listed above in more casual wear.

I think the last important detail is the way you wear it. You can't be self-conscious about it at all, and must walk around as non-chalantly as if you were wearing a tshirt and jeans. Maybe your pocket square isn't sitting quite straight, or your shirt is coming a little too untucked. The Italians call this attitude sprezzatura, look up the word online a bit, there's a lot been written about it. Consider basically any successful, worldly Italian player kind of guy in his 30s or 40s and you'll see what I mean. Or put otherwise, to quote a scene in Casino Royale (with Daniel Craig smirking the whole time) : "By the cut of your suit you went to Oxford or wherever, and actually think human beings dress like that. But you wear it with such disdain, my guess is you didn't come from money..." I don't know if disdain is quite the right word, but something like that. What you're wearing is completely normal to you and you don't even think of it. It can't be a costume and you can't be too conscious of it all, otherwise it will come off as fake. Sprezzatura. Stylish ZFG.

Post: #67

I'm due for a wardrobe update. Has anyone hired an image consultant to help out? If so, is it worth doing so as opposed to just asking a passerby female how you look when you try new clothes on at the fitting rooms in the mall?

Post: #68

My tailor turned me on to deconstructed blazers and knit blazers. There is little to no lining in them, and certainly no padding in the shoulders. If you work out (which you should) it's a great way to show off broad shoulders while simultaneously looking "stylish" (cos you're wearing a slick blazer with dress shirt and pocket square) but without looking try-hard or over dressed. I prefer the material to be linen, but a knit cotton can be nice too.

Post: #69

(02-06-2016 11:47 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I'm due for a wardrobe update. Has anyone hired an image consultant to help out? If so, is it worth doing so as opposed to just asking a passerby female how you look when you try new clothes on at the fitting rooms in the mall?

You should probably never let a women dress you or give an opinion on what clothes to buy. It it the difference between statements and behavior. Try something and see the results in how women react to you. And, most importantly, in your own reaction to how you are dressing. One caveat, if you really have a trusted wing-chick then possibly get her opinion on a choice between two things you already like, just don't let her dress you into something that you then do not feel confident about.

One of the key learnings in this thread is about congruency. Does an outfit make you feel confident. That will make all the difference in the world. Last night I went out in a well fitted v-neck t-shirt and jeans and had been working out hard for three weeks and felt physically very good and the clothes showed off my recent improvements in fitness so I felt like a million bucks and the chicks responded.

Also, some forum members have used Tanner Guzy at Masculine Style as a style consultant.

Another item in this thread that I agree with is using Thrift Stores as a way to try out new clothes. I often buy ten items at a thrift store then find I only really like one or two and then buy more or similar items new or on sale. A very effective strategy.

Post: #70

My rule is if you're out-dressing the women, or if you're dressed significantly better than 90% of people at the venue - it might have a negative effect.

My rule is just go 1 level above what everyone else is wearing (ex. if you're at a dive bar where other guys are wearing street clothes, wear clothes that are casual but nice - but don't feel the need to wear a suit to pick up chicks if you're at a place where almost everyone's wearing T-shirts).

And this is just my opinion, but this is stuff that as a guy I'd never wear:

Scarves (unless it's actually cold)

Bracelets (yes I've seen guys wearing bracelets, and girls have told me it looks very "gay")

Ties or bowties unless it's part of the dress code

More than a few pieces of jewelry (1-3 rings, or a chain is fine, but too much looks gaudy)

Post: #71

(02-06-2016 03:36 PM)gmoneysauce Wrote:  Also, some forum members have used Tanner Guzy at Masculine Style as a style consultant.

Thanks for the name drop, I just bought The Staples PDF from him for $27. I'll be using it as a guide for updating my wardrobe over the next few months.