Post: #26

2 women I dated in the past decided to go slow before I became the new me.
Girl one I met while I was out with a younger hottie from a money family.
Nice looking blonde great ass skinny legs cowboy boots. I start talking to her and man she was cold....anyway I somehow get her number and next night we go out. We had a lot in common and talked and drank. Same thing 3 more dates...which I end date 4 by saying look I dont think this is gone to go anywhere and dont need that kinda friend. Bang was on and she lived with me for 4 years.
Girl 2 I meet out with my friends ...pretty blonde and my bros were like darn you got that chicks number in like 20 minutes and we left.
Couple days later we hook up and go out. Lots of talking no action. Lkke 5 dates of the same thing. I tell here look I need sex from a chick not just talk as she was not puttin off a sexy vibe. Bang was on from that momnent on. This chick would get buzzed and take off all her clothing as we were driving down the road...it was great and she could fuck. It was like that for 6 months. She started stalking me when I told her I did not want to get too serious. Nice girl but real needy and was under cover freak. Lol she turned me on to nickleback. Dont laugh lol.

Post: #27

(12-30-2015 06:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Don't escalate on the first date. Make out with her, text afterward. Set up the 2nd date within 4-7 days.

Can you elaborate?

Post: #28

(12-30-2015 09:44 AM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 06:46 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Don't escalate on the first date. Make out with her, text afterward. Set up the 2nd date within 4-7 days.

Can you elaborate?

What I meant was don't be in such a rush to escalate to sex on the first date with these types of conservative, international women. Patience is often the key with those types. For a long time this community's collective advice was that you always had to push for sex on the first date - but that really isn't always the case. Not only is it often bad game with the wrong types of girls, it may not actually be what you want, deep down.

I've talked about this extensively with friends and other guys from the meetups I've hosted and since we often have a lot going on already in our lives, we're not in any rush to constantly push for sex immediately. I mean, don't get me wrong - I will pursue it under the right circumstances and I want it to happen most of the time, but I'm no longer so fueled by the desire that I allow the goal of sex to overpower my judgment, influence my behavior on a date, or impact my ability to ultimately continue to see someone.

So that was a round-about way of saying - push for the kiss and makeout, but don't worry if you don't have sex on the first date.

Post: #29

(12-30-2015 09:51 AM)Gmac Wrote:  So that was a round-about way of saying - push for the kiss and makeout, but don't worry if you don't have sex on the first date.

That's been my game mantra after getting back into it about a month ago. In the past it was sex above all else. But now I'm putting more emphasis on spending time with women who I actually enjoy being around and who add value to my life. My first dates now are fairly short, with little escalation. After the date I give myself 2-3 days to really think about if I want to see them again and if they're worth my investment. If the answer is yes then I ask them out for a second date. Will I lose out on some opportunities this way? Probably. Does it really matter? Not at all.

Post: #30

So with the no sex on first date plan, what does kissing and making out bring over not kissing but showing you could if you wanted to. Presumably you release some of the sexual tension, is it important?

Post: #31

(12-30-2015 02:03 PM)reino341 Wrote:  So with the no sex on first date plan, what does kissing and making out bring over not kissing but showing you could if you wanted to. Presumably you release some of the sexual tension, is it important?

Pushing too hard on the first date with FOBs or conservative types tends to scare those girls away because you come on too strong for them. You aren't rewarded by these types of girls by pushing for sex - and they often won't agree to a second date. And usually it's a lot less likely logistics will be in your favor (i.e. she won't agree to go home with you or you won't be a position to ply her with alcohol). It also gives you more time to decide if you want to continue seeing her after you get the bang.

Escalating to handholding and kissing on the first date sets the stage for there to be more on date two. You start off the second date with a kiss, and by the time you've gotten her back to your place (or hers) things have "naturally" escalated in her mind. Alcohol makes it all much easier of course, especially if the girl doesn't drink that much. Believe it or not, you might even be the first guy she banged on the second date - if that puts it into better perspective.

Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, but playing it safe is a good strategy in this case. I'm not saying go on 6+ dates and end up bitter for the wasted time and effort, but having some patience will mean you will miss out on less notches and relationship opportunities.

Post: #32

(12-30-2015 03:52 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Pushing too hard on the first date with FOBs or conservative types tends to scare those girls away because you come on too strong for them. You aren't rewarded by these types of girls by pushing for sex - and they often won't agree to a second date.

Spot on Gmac. Where I live in SoCal there's a lot of FOB Asian women or those who are second generation and a little more conservative than mainstream white women. I've almost always struck out playing the hard escalate card on them. Years later I'm just figuring this one out

Can't believe I haven't repped you yet. No worries, fixed that just now.

Post: #33

(12-30-2015 04:16 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  

(12-30-2015 03:52 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Pushing too hard on the first date with FOBs or conservative types tends to scare those girls away because you come on too strong for them. You aren't rewarded by these types of girls by pushing for sex - and they often won't agree to a second date.

Spot on Gmac. Where I live in SoCal there's a lot of FOB Asian women or those who are second generation and a little more conservative than mainstream white women. I've almost always struck out playing the hard escalate card on them. Years later I'm just figuring this one out

Can't believe I haven't repped you yet. No worries, fixed that just now.

OTSC

If you don't mind me asking, where are you meeting FOB's...generally? (I know we're both in OC so feel free to PM me if you don't want to give specifics on open forum)

Post: #34

Mostly from online. As a white guy I seem to click especially well with Vietnamese women. Many are foreign born but mostly grew up here.

Post: #35

(12-30-2015 07:49 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  Mostly from online. As a white guy I seem to click especially well with Vietnamese women. Many are foreign born but mostly grew up here.

I see. That wont work for me. Unless I use a pic of one my Caucasian friends and pull a SIC scam on the online Asian chicks. (SIC= secret internet Cuban).

Thanks for the response

Post: #36

PT I've read your write ups and know how you regularly score in your cozy little lizard trap near the beach. No sympathy for your lack of Asian success buddy! Haha

Post: #37

(12-30-2015 08:07 PM)OregonToSoCal Wrote:  PT I've read your write ups and know how you regularly score in your cozy little lizard trap near the beach. No sympathy for your lack of Asian success buddy! Haha

"Variety is the spice of life" amigo

Post: #38

(12-17-2015 05:38 AM)XXL Wrote:  OP, with girls like that try this..

Meet up with a girl in the city 2-3 times and make it impossible on purpose to have sex on that date. Don't bluntly tell her that nothing is going to happen. Just take her out and mention some kind of excuse like working at night on a project or whatever. The point is to convey that there's no chance for sex that night due to unfavorable circumstances. Game the girl and build fair amount of comfort and sexual tension. She should have great time, feel no pressure that something can happen and leave wanting more. Meet up with her 2-3 times like that. Then set up another meeting with perfect logistics set and reap what you sow.

That's "3 dates with no LMR at the end" type of game. You amp up sexual tension by interacting with her in a way that nothing can happen and you go for the kill later when she's ready.

Details.. http://goo.gl/5wBspq

I've lived in Asia for 6 years (Korea, Taiwan and Mainland China, with extensive travel and multiple flags), and this is honestly the best advice for most East Asian FOB-type girls (SEA is a little different and generally quicker). They need more time to relax and be comfortable. Its pretty rare to lose an opportunity because you haven't made a move on the first couple of dates, while very possible to scare her away because you escalated too quickly on put her on her back foot.

I've had my best successes (70+ girls at this point) with this perspective:

Date 1- Meet for afternoon coffee, like 2 hrs. Just stating that you're only meeting for coffee for a couple hours and then you have to go 1) helps actually get her out b/c its less pressure, and 2) helps her feel more relaxed. This guy gets it, he's not going to try and fuck me 5 min in.

Tell some stories, ask her questions, be relaxed and she relaxes. Usually you'll do 80% of the talking. Give value, don't try to take anything. Its almost like a cool, traveled, big-brother vibe. She goes home thinking "Hey that was fun" and her mind relaxes. Attraction achieved.

Date 2- Meet for an evening thing, dinner, night market, drinks, museum, etc. Depends on the city and girl. Wait a few days to set it up, but I didn't notice importance on waiting a certain # of days or anything.

When you meet, again be cool, non-needy. Give value, nothing to take. She'll still be nervous at first, but will relax quickly. Here she'll start to show her personality, throwing some jokes and tests. Get her laughing. Ask about family, dreams, etc. Her heart will begin to relax. Comfort achieved.

She'll like you, start to feel connected like she actually knows you, but will still be a little defensive, wondering what will happen next. When 10 or 11 rolls around, though, say "Hey, we should get you home, you have to catch the train/work tomorrow." Her reaction will likely be "Oh... okay." Does this guy really like me? Did I mess up? Is he meeting another girl? She'll be attracted to you, comfortable with you, and now she'll start wanting to 'win' you. This is where you want to be.

Date 3- This is where you make your move. Invite her to your apartment for you cooking/her cooking and something else like watch a movie, etc (I play guitar, for me thats a pretty damn good way to seal the deal). She has total plausible deniability at this point, as shes not even sure if you like her! Or, meet somewhere for drinks/dinner, then invite her over for the same reasons.

Now that she's in your awesome apartment, its a new place, so give her at least 20-30 minutes to again relax and get comfortable. At this point, she has everything she needs. With mind and heart relaxed, her vagina relaxes, and she begins to feel genuine horniness and longing to be filled by this awesome dude who makes her feel these things. When she starts relaxing on your bed, you pretty much cant lose. The tension in the air will palpable. Rest in it like a Zen monk.

At a time when I feel fully relaxed, and can feel she is by extension, I'll usually say something like "I really want to kiss you right now." Generally thats to ratchet up the tension even more, mostly for my own amusement. Her eyes will go wide, her heart will beat out her chest, and she will say one of three things: "Really?" "Are you sure?" or "Okay!" To which I will respond "Yes.", "Yes." or "Okay."

There's only one way to relieve this poor little bambi of all this sexual tension. Lean in and kiss her.

Of course, there are exceptions, and if your gut tells you a first night lay is possible, go for it. As a general rule though, I found the three date, mind/body/vagina relaxation model works really well with almost no LMR. When I stray from it, results vary and are messier. Sure, it takes more time, but if it increases your lay rate you will actually get laid more per hour spent (nothing is worse than moving in a little too soon on the first/second date and scaring her off). Girls take longer to warm up than we do (3 meets is a good rule of thumb), and when you give them time to really get invested, everybody wins. No buyers remorse, no pressured, deer-in-the-headlights starfish fuck, just a girl who feels special and would probably be down to see you regularly.

Post: #39

(10-22-2017 03:22 AM)WireySpindell Wrote:  Date 1- Meet for afternoon coffee, like 2 hrs. Just stating that you're only meeting for coffee for a couple hours and then you have to go 1) helps actually get her out b/c its less pressure, and 2) helps her feel more relaxed. This guy gets it, he's not going to try and fuck me 5 min in.

Tell some stories, ask her questions, be relaxed and she relaxes. Usually you'll do 80% of the talking. Give value, don't try to take anything. Its almost like a cool, traveled, big-brother vibe. She goes home thinking "Hey that was fun" and her mind relaxes. Attraction achieved.

Date 2- Meet for an evening thing, dinner, night market, drinks, museum, etc. Depends on the city and girl. Wait a few days to set it up, but I didn't notice importance on waiting a certain # of days or anything.

When you meet, again be cool, non-needy. Give value, nothing to take. She'll still be nervous at first, but will relax quickly. Here she'll start to show her personality, throwing some jokes and tests. Get her laughing. Ask about family, dreams, etc. Her heart will begin to relax. Comfort achieved.

She'll like you, start to feel connected like she actually knows you, but will still be a little defensive, wondering what will happen next. When 10 or 11 rolls around, though, say "Hey, we should get you home, you have to catch the train/work tomorrow." Her reaction will likely be "Oh... okay." Does this guy really like me? Did I mess up? Is he meeting another girl? She'll be attracted to you, comfortable with you, and now she'll start wanting to 'win' you. This is where you want to be.

Do you kiss on the first and second dates? Here's my dilemma: people on this forum often say not to kiss before you get her home, but kissing will at least make it clear that you are bold and want to be more than just friends. How do you convey that you want to get romantic/sexual? How far do you escalate on the first and second dates? Do you hold hands, put arm around her, put your faces together?

Post: #40

(10-22-2017 05:06 AM)BlueMark Wrote:  Do you kiss on the first and second dates? Here's my dilemma: people on this forum often say not to kiss before you get her home, but kissing will at least make it clear that you are bold and want to be more than just friends. How do you convey that you want to get romantic/sexual? How far do you escalate on the first and second dates? Do you hold hands, put arm around her, put your faces together?

Usually I would say kiss on the first date.
For the most part, my lays have been all kisses on the first date, lay on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th+.
The only girl that I have slept with thatI didn't kiss on the first date was a girl who was a virgin and have only kissed on guy before. However, I still went for the kiss 4 times during 1.5 hour date on the first date.
Was it too much? Maybe. Did I get the Lay on the 3rd date? Yes.
It will show that you got the balls and will make her think about sleeping with you. Roosh V also emphases how important it is to kiss on the first date.
If it's like social circle setting and you guys have 1vs1 one hour coffee date, you should get a kiss out of it, unless the date sucked dick and if you don't kiss the girl, she will think that you are not into her or that she messed up somewhere during the date.

Post: #41

(10-22-2017 05:24 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  Usually I would say kiss on the first date.
For the most part, my lays have been all kisses on the first date, lay on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th+.
The only girl that I have slept with thatI didn't kiss on the first date was a girl who was a virgin and have only kissed on guy before. However, I still went for the kiss 4 times during 1.5 hour date on the first date.
Was it too much? Maybe. Did I get the Lay on the 3rd date? Yes.
It will show that you got the balls and will make her think about sleeping with you. Roosh V also emphases how important it is to kiss on the first date.
If it's like social circle setting and you guys have 1vs1 one hour coffee date, you should get a kiss out of it, unless the date sucked dick and if you don't kiss the girl, she will think that you are not into her or that she messed up somewhere during the date.

But in this thread, a lot of posters are saying not to kiss until we are in a place where it can escalate to sex:
/thread-65282.html

So this lack of certainty really fucks me up mentally on dates. It's cost me a few bangs I think, because I get too indecisive, wondering what to do, and it comes off as too passive to the girl.

Post: #42

(10-22-2017 03:22 AM)WireySpindell Wrote:  As a general rule though, I found the three date, mind/body/vagina relaxation model works really well with almost no LMR.

Fantastic write up Spindell.

I cringe when I hear dudes in here writing up their first date anal and choking reports.

Not my scene man, dating sluts like that.

I much prefer the hunt and conquest of a decent three date Kate type.

Love your work brother.

Post: #43

(10-22-2017 05:53 AM)BlueMark Wrote:  

(10-22-2017 05:24 AM)bgbusiness Wrote:  Usually I would say kiss on the first date.
For the most part, my lays have been all kisses on the first date, lay on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th+.
The only girl that I have slept with thatI didn't kiss on the first date was a girl who was a virgin and have only kissed on guy before. However, I still went for the kiss 4 times during 1.5 hour date on the first date.
Was it too much? Maybe. Did I get the Lay on the 3rd date? Yes.
It will show that you got the balls and will make her think about sleeping with you. Roosh V also emphases how important it is to kiss on the first date.
If it's like social circle setting and you guys have 1vs1 one hour coffee date, you should get a kiss out of it, unless the date sucked dick and if you don't kiss the girl, she will think that you are not into her or that she messed up somewhere during the date.

But in this thread, a lot of posters are saying not to kiss until we are in a place where it can escalate to sex:
/thread-65282.html

So this lack of certainty really fucks me up mentally on dates. It's cost me a few bangs I think, because I get too indecisive, wondering what to do, and it comes off as too passive to the girl.

Make sure to gauge if the chick is moderately conservative if she is, try to go for the kiss on the first date in hopes of getting two more dates and then escalate for sex on the third date. If she is not that conservative then only kiss and escalate for sex where you can do both on the first date. But you will need to adapt your game to the type of chick and situation, and it will always be dependant exactly on what you want from them on that first date.

So your options to not over complicate things are:
1. If your goal is to possibly have a relationship with a chick then play the multi-day date game.

2. If your goal is to simply pump and dump or bang on the first date then obviously do the first date game and kiss/bang only where you can do both. Just next the chicks that don't go for the bang, some bangs may be left on the table, who cares. That will happen to everyone no matter what.

Either option can still net you some fuck buddies.

For me since I'm not looking for anything long-term, my focus is to just pump and dump sluts and keep a few fuck buddies for a little while. Not letting the rotation get too stale, plus they bore me quickly.

Post: #44

(10-22-2017 05:06 AM)BlueMark Wrote:  

(10-22-2017 03:22 AM)WireySpindell Wrote:  Date 1- Meet for afternoon coffee, like 2 hrs. Just stating that you're only meeting for coffee for a couple hours and then you have to go 1) helps actually get her out b/c its less pressure, and 2) helps her feel more relaxed. This guy gets it, he's not going to try and fuck me 5 min in.

Tell some stories, ask her questions, be relaxed and she relaxes. Usually you'll do 80% of the talking. Give value, don't try to take anything. Its almost like a cool, traveled, big-brother vibe. She goes home thinking "Hey that was fun" and her mind relaxes. Attraction achieved.

Date 2- Meet for an evening thing, dinner, night market, drinks, museum, etc. Depends on the city and girl. Wait a few days to set it up, but I didn't notice importance on waiting a certain # of days or anything.

When you meet, again be cool, non-needy. Give value, nothing to take. She'll still be nervous at first, but will relax quickly. Here she'll start to show her personality, throwing some jokes and tests. Get her laughing. Ask about family, dreams, etc. Her heart will begin to relax. Comfort achieved.

She'll like you, start to feel connected like she actually knows you, but will still be a little defensive, wondering what will happen next. When 10 or 11 rolls around, though, say "Hey, we should get you home, you have to catch the train/work tomorrow." Her reaction will likely be "Oh... okay." Does this guy really like me? Did I mess up? Is he meeting another girl? She'll be attracted to you, comfortable with you, and now she'll start wanting to 'win' you. This is where you want to be.

Do you kiss on the first and second dates? Here's my dilemma: people on this forum often say not to kiss before you get her home, but kissing will at least make it clear that you are bold and want to be more than just friends. How do you convey that you want to get romantic/sexual? How far do you escalate on the first and second dates? Do you hold hands, put arm around her, put your faces together?

I've found my best success doing NOTHING until in isolation in my apartment. I'm an attractive guy (my own delusions+track record ), ergo she'll be attracted. I've never really found it to be a problem, where I've definitely blown it by moving too fast, even though I knew she liked me. If she's met me three times, she into me- and if she's surprised when I do kiss her fair enough, but I'll go for it 100% and we'll see what happens. Almost always works, and you can feel the vibe. Also remember, East Asians in general are less comfortable with PDA's.

I've found it actually helps, for multiple reasons. One, because she feels no pressure she can actually relax quicker, and I believe a girl has to be relaxed around you to really get horny (generally). Two, because its kind of unclear, sexual tension is maxed out, which is great (once you get used to sitting in that tension its pretty fun). Sometime after the second date she's sort of made up in her mind she wants to be with you, so now she's trying, and you can "let" her win. We value what we put effort into Third, it's total plausible deniability when you "invite her up for a minute". She doesn't even know if you like her in that way! You've never made a move! Curiosity will get the best of her, and afterwards she can really feel like it just happened without feeling slutty (I think making a girl consciously feel slutty is like a girl making a guy feel like a wimp- it cuts deep in a way that's hard for the other side to understand).

One "test" I have noticed though- sometime on the second date, the girl with breach the subject of sex. Not directly, but often she'll tell a story about a friend, or at her work, etc. Something sexual, to see how you'll react. She's essentially asking "are you chill about sex?" in so many words. It's your job to say "Yeah, sex is totally cool and a great natural thing between a man and a woman," in so many words.

Again this is with the HUGE caveat that this is my baseline strategy for South East Asia (Korea, Taiwan, China, Vietnam is like 50/50), and girls who are still entrenched in this culture. They're shy, and by the very fact you're a western guy, you're probably more sexually exciting/scary in a way she's not used to. By comparison, I'd pull quicker in SEA usually, and with North America girls. Also, trust your gut- if she's throwing you signals, sure, pull on the second or even first date. This is a guideline, go off it as you see fit. I've had ONS's for sure. And yeah, you might get friend-zoned if you wait 10 dates, but 3, I've never had it be a problem.

I've found this strategy to be super effective in managing to sleep with the girls I want to, and to be able to keep them around after (should I choose), with no hard feelings or buyers remorse. I'm still friends with tons of them, and they seem pretty grateful that I'm a guy who seems to get it. Gentleman with the Gift of Dick, that's my philosophy

Different things work for different people though, so always be testing.

Post: #45

(10-22-2017 03:14 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

(10-22-2017 03:22 AM)WireySpindell Wrote:  As a general rule though, I found the three date, mind/body/vagina relaxation model works really well with almost no LMR.

Fantastic write up Spindell.

I cringe when I hear dudes in here writing up their first date anal and choking reports.

Not my scene man, dating sluts like that.

I much prefer the hunt and conquest of a decent three date Kate type.

Love your work brother.

Cheers Buddy

Post: #46

My method is to try to get the pussy as fast as possible. If I approach a woman I try to make sexual innuendos throughout the course of our conversation, if that doesn't open up at the very least my body language is aggressive.

Now this is harder pulling girls online in terms of initial interaction with her unless your method is to see who online is the biggest slut.

Anyways I'm trying to see the girl either that night or within a couple days. And on the date throughout the course of conversation I usually will get into a combative discussion to push her buttons and push the range of her rationale, or I bring up sex, but not just some random question about sex but how sex is important to my life.

Generally what will happen is 3 things

1. She's down with it
Maybe she pushes back or plays along but she'll be coming home with me

2. She gets pissed off, calls me a pig blah blah blah and storms out or says take me home.

3. She gets pissed off calls me a pig blah blah blah but I play on her emotions, I flip the scenario on her. From being me explaining or implying my value and why she "should" have sex with me to making her explain why she "shouldn't" have sex with me. Now I've got her defending her own integrity against my desires, because she usually has no rational defense in why she wont fuck me, just emotions, she ultimately ends up falling into my arms.

Now sometimes everything is going great, we are hitting on all cylinders and she doesn't say any arrogant or snarky remarks that women just blurt out unfiltered so I go along because I'm enjoying myself. Afterwards i'll push up on her, touching and kissing and generally if the night has went great as I stated she will reciprocate it. Now she might stop me from having sex and that's okay because she's not obligated, I'm feeling her and I'm enjoying her time so I will be down to see her again.

BUT I NEVER GO PAST A THIRD DATE WITH NO PUSS. If the last scenario I stated continues and on the second date she tries to play me like a yo-yo I BACK OFF. What will usually happen is she will hit me insisting we go out again and I tell her that's fine but pussy is either on the table or everything is off the table. You have to make these bitches Annie Up because they will run you into the dirt if they can.


But the initial scenarios I laid out are usually my experiences. I'm 24 Years old living in California. You cant let bitches play games with you, when ever I'm out on a date and they start with that funny business I don't just mutter shit in my head and then go home mad, I tell them why they are making my life worse than it should be, you gotta nip all the emotional shit in the bud. My goal is to make women feel uncomfortable with how they FEEL comfortable disrespecting us (Men). Too many guys just tuck their tail in and go home