Post: #26

As a side observation, this touches on one thing that I find problematic about the manosphere, which is its glorification of the minimalistic "lone wolf" lifestyle, where you cut off or deny male relations for not meeting an elevated "red pill" or "alpha" standard.

This is very wrong and very dangerous, and serves to validate the already introverted inclinations of the average guy coming into the 'sphere. You end up screwing yourself majorly as time goes on, where the freshness of socialization dies and it becomes harder and harder to make new ties when you realize you need them. Humans are social creatures, and life = people, whether you like it or not. The ideal is accumulating social capital early and all throughout before your social value and mobility plummet with age. Now obviously most of us were not the cool connected kids growing up, and that's what's brought us into this, but it's best we realize this and get on track, rather reject it entirely and go Lone Wolf out of some kind of spite.

As for people, believe it or not, you don't have to gel with them 100% and hold them up to such a high standard that they'll never meet. As long as you can along with them well and foster inter-dependencies where on the net balance you get more out of it than you put in, then hey that's great.

"Do not be one of the many who mistakenly believe that the ultimate form of power is independence. Power involves a relationship between people; you will always need others as allies, pawns, or even as weak masters who serve as your front. The completely independent man who would live in a cabin in the woods - he would have the freedom to come and go as he pleased, but he would have no power." - Robert Greene, The 48 Laws of Power

And as for the internet, in my experience with it it's a been horrible way to meet people. It's a last resort for social rejects.

Post: #27

This topic makes me kinda sad, this past job I had I came across a bunch of individuals that I called friends, now that I left this job we hardly stay in contact, I am willing to put the effort into a friendship but it cant be a one way street, whether its others or my own insecurities I just find it hard to stay around people, I am that lone wolf type guy and am introverted, thing is most people seem to like and respect me, I just find it hard to trust people, I mean most people are pretty untrustworthy IMO.

I continue to search for those people who have loyalty, is that too much to ask now a days?

Post: #28

(10-15-2015 01:12 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  This topic makes me kinda sad, this past job I had I came across a bunch of individuals that I called friends, now that I left this job we hardly stay in contact, I am willing to put the effort into a friendship but it cant be a one way street, whether its others or my own insecurities I just find it hard to stay around people, I am that lone wolf type guy and am introverted, thing is most people seem to like and respect me, I just find it hard to trust people, I mean most people are pretty untrustworthy IMO.

I continue to search for those people who have loyalty, is that too much to ask now a days?

I'm in a similar situation as you. I consider myself an "outgoing introvert" and don't like being around people just for the sake of it. However I have a lot of acquaintances and am well liked. I know what you mean about the trust issues too. It seems like everyone is out for themselves and I tend to give my "friends" the benefit of the doubt. I had to cut two close guy friends loose recently as it was clear that their level of investment in the friendship was much less than mine was.

Post: #29

Also reminds me of a conversation I had with an elderly man when I was taking a train ride cross state, we started talking about life and careers and eventually the topic came to friendships, I expressed how I had many "friends" but I dunno if I would call them real friends, he said most people come and go in your life, family are actually the most important people in your life because they are the ones that will always be there for you, he also mentioned how he can count his friends on his hand, there are very few that will stay true and loyal no matter what in your life.

Post: #30

I imagine if you play your cards right, you could find some awesome friends here on the forum. Don't be afraid to get out of your comfort zone and chat with some dudes here on a personal level, it will probably surprise you.

Post: #31

I guess it depends on your definition of a "friend", another problem is that I am very hard on myself and others, so for instance a guy that I go to the bar with, we go to a club to pick up chicks, watch some football or something, that is acquaintance, if things develop beyond that we can become friends.

A true friend is made via loyalty imo, some who I know I can trust, someone who I know will have my back at the drop of a hat, someone who if I call right now is ready to go, sounds like a lot to ask but that is who I am, I will be ready to go at any moment for someone I truly feel is a friend and I expect the same in return.

Thing is that takes years to build up, you dont just have someone back no matter what after knowing them for a year.

The issue with me being such a loyal person is that expect the same in return so if you do something that I see as untrustworthy that is a big red flag for me and you get flagged as someone I cannot rely on.

Yea I dunno Im kinda crazy like that and it holds me back.

Post: #32

(10-08-2015 06:58 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  Interesting I have heard complaints about the people in Cali, complaints of many superficial and untrustworthy people.

I still want to go to Cali as I am from NY, I am sure I will end up there too at some point but its good to have a heads up.

I also hear people are genuinely laid back as opposed to the more uptight NYC'rs.

I've been in Southern California for a couple of years now, and almost everybody I'm friends with is originally not from here, or comes from a Southern Californian background which has nothing to do with the Hollywood party scene.

Post: #33

Thanks for all the replies. I guess the word "friend" means different things to different people. Aquaintances are one thing (people to socialize with, work buddies, neighbors, people with common interests are one thing.) I know how/where to find those. It's the people who are like ideal family that I'm looking for. Someone who would be there at the drop of the hat in an emergency (and who knows could count on me for the same reason,) someone you could give your house keys to and know he won't go there to snoop through your things (or worse.) Unfortunately not everyone has close family, or at least close family living nearby.

Post: #34

Good to hear there is still people out there like you, we share a similar mentality.

I am very grateful that I have family that I know would be there for me no matter what, its sad that some people dont have that.

Im not religious or very superstitious but I do believe in a little more than just coincidence and I think that some things in life are meant to happen to us, people, places, events; or that could just be some kind of coping mechanism.

Still the search continues!

Post: #35

(10-07-2015 06:43 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  I find it important to keep up with old friends. Most of the friends I have now I'm still in touch with from my Navy days back in the 90's. Of course, some of it depends on your location and what you do. When I got out of the Navy in '98, I moved to New Jersey to take a job. In the years I've lived in New Jersey, I found it is the hardest place I've ever lived in which to make friends. I'd occasionally meet up with people for a few months, but they all drifted away. Jersey is the kind of place where the attitude is "if you didn't go to high school with us, then fuck you".

I since moved to Northern Virginia, where most of the people are military transplants like me, so it's much easier to make friends in this area since most people have similar mindsets.

And like others say, try to keep in touch with RVF members. I know they have meetups in DC, but I live in Fredericksburg, more than 50 miles from DC, so meeting there is inconvenient. If any RVF members like somewhere between Woodbridge and F-burg, I'd be willing to meet for a few beers.

99 percent chance you lived up in North Jersey. Despite looking small on a map, Jersey is a complex state with different regións and personalities, even a vast amount of races and cultures as well. Even moving to the town next to you could vastly change your opinion.

Post: #36

Making friends isn't the hard part. The hard part is forming bonds that are solid enough to transcend the kind of time and distance that is inevitable, because as men you will be out doing your own thing.

Combine that with the fact that those solid bonds are hard to form in the world we live in. There is so much going on that friendships get less attention. I think that's why some of the best friends that I have had are guys I've served with in the military. Being so removed from the outside world for extended periods of time forces bonding.

I think you can only be so tight with people you only have fun with. Cheap fun doesn't create bonds. To make quality friends you have to share some downright shitty experiences. It's not exclusive to the military either, and I'm not trying to say that you need to join the military to make friends.

Example:

You have a friend who you go out and drink with a few times a month. You take your girls to a baseball game or something every so often. That's a decent friend.

Now take the same friend and go out on a hunting trip to Alaska. Hike until your legs turn to jello and you feel like you are going to die. Have a close encounter with a grizzly bear. Then get caught up in a storm. Then when you are both at the point where you have lost almost all hope you finally spot a caribou. You shoot it, gut and quarter it together, and then start hiking back. You have to cross a river and you almost freeze to death but you make it back alive. That's a great friend.

The only difference is the experience shared.

I also think that the modern man does a shitty job at maintaining friendships. Most of the older married guys I know don't have any close friends anymore and you can tell that they wish they did. I have always felt bad for my dad because he doesn't have any close friends.

You have to put in work to maintain those quality friendships once you have them.

Post: #37

Wait, so now I am supposed to run game on guys to make friends and not just game girls, that sounds like too much work.

Post: #38

(10-17-2015 06:44 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 06:43 PM)emuelle1 Wrote:  I find it important to keep up with old friends. Most of the friends I have now I'm still in touch with from my Navy days back in the 90's. Of course, some of it depends on your location and what you do. When I got out of the Navy in '98, I moved to New Jersey to take a job. In the years I've lived in New Jersey, I found it is the hardest place I've ever lived in which to make friends. I'd occasionally meet up with people for a few months, but they all drifted away. Jersey is the kind of place where the attitude is "if you didn't go to high school with us, then fuck you".

I since moved to Northern Virginia, where most of the people are military transplants like me, so it's much easier to make friends in this area since most people have similar mindsets.

And like others say, try to keep in touch with RVF members. I know they have meetups in DC, but I live in Fredericksburg, more than 50 miles from DC, so meeting there is inconvenient. If any RVF members like somewhere between Woodbridge and F-burg, I'd be willing to meet for a few beers.

99 percent chance you lived up in North Jersey. Despite looking small on a map, Jersey is a complex state with different regións and personalities, even a vast amount of races and cultures as well. Even moving to the town next to you could vastly change your opinion.

"You don't look or talk like you're from the Jersey Shore."
-Midwestern kook who has never been to New Jersey or met a person from the Jersey Shore

Post: #39

Another thing I want to mention is guys who turn into a different person because of girls.

I am in the process of cutting off someone now because of the way he acts when it comes to girls, I would never change because of some girl, fuck that, funny thing is when these guys break off with the girl they come running back to their friends.

I dont have time for people like that in my life.

Post: #40

(10-15-2015 01:12 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  This topic makes me kinda sad, this past job I had I came across a bunch of individuals that I called friends, now that I left this job we hardly stay in contact, I am willing to put the effort into a friendship but it cant be a one way street, whether its others or my own insecurities I just find it hard to stay around people, I am that lone wolf type guy and am introverted, thing is most people seem to like and respect me, I just find it hard to trust people, I mean most people are pretty untrustworthy IMO.

I continue to search for those people who have loyalty, is that too much to ask now a days?

Yeah I run into this same thing. I feel like most people are just casual acquantnces and as soon as seeing one another is not a requirement ie work people just aren't really willing to put the effort into maintaining friendships.

I had a bunch of people I would consider friends and noticed just small things like hey can you take me to pickup my car from the tow lot. Sorry I'm busy ie playing video games. If someone can't help me or go out of their way for me when I would drop anything to help a friend I don't need that person in my life.

Doing this however I've managed to cut out pretty much all friends and acquantances so I've decided to kind of take an approach of learning who my friends or acquantances are and treating them as such. For example a good friend I'll do anything for. Someone who is just a casual acquantance and wont' go out of their way for me, I wont go out of my way for them.

It's kind of fucked up having to have this scale of how much I'm willing to put out for each person but that just seems to be how most friendships are these days. I have maybe one or two people I would consider two friends.

I remember my grandpa told me once, if you have one friend who's a true friend and who you maintain a relatinship with over the decades consider yourself lucky.

Post: #41

Making friends isn't any harder than it used to be. The difference is that adults do not dedicate enough time, either by necessity or by choice, for a real bond to form.

You made great friends in elementary school because you spent 8+ hours with them every day. You made great friends in college because you literally lived with them. You aren't going to make those bonds by meeting guys at a bowling league that meets once per week for 2 hours.

Meet a couple guys you like through work, sports, clubs etc., and then take a vacation with them - preferably for as long as possible. Force the around the clock interaction. Find out their good and bad traits. Crack jokes until the awkwardness is gone.

I know many couples who became lifelong friends with other couples they met on their honeymoons. Spending 7-10 around-the-clock days with a person or crew really makes the bond form.

You might take the trip and discover you aren't compatible with those guys. Maybe the trip won't be that great. If so, meet new guys when you get home and start saving for the next bro-journey. If the guy or crew doesn't want to take a trip with you, he's not open to making new friends. Find someone who is - there's tons of lonely people in the city.

If you think this is too awkward or too time-consuming, you are making the CHOICE not to have friends in my opinion.

Post: #42

(10-19-2015 02:20 PM)Eddie Winslow Wrote:  Making friends isn't any harder than it used to be. The difference is that adults do not dedicate enough time, either by necessity or by choice, for a real bond to form.

You made great friends in elementary school because you spent 8+ hours with them every day. You made great friends in college because you literally lived with them. You aren't going to make those bonds by meeting guys at a bowling league that meets once per week for 2 hours.

Meet a couple guys you like through work, sports, clubs etc., and then take a vacation with them - preferably for as long as possible. Force the around the clock interaction. Find out their good and bad traits. Crack jokes until the awkwardness is gone.

I know many couples who became lifelong friends with other couples they met on their honeymoons. Spending 7-10 around-the-clock days with a person or crew really makes the bond form.

You might take the trip and discover you aren't compatible with those guys. Maybe the trip won't be that great. If so, meet new guys when you get home and start saving for the next bro-journey. If the guy or crew doesn't want to take a trip with you, he's not open to making new friends. Find someone who is - there's tons of lonely people in the city.

If you think this is too awkward or too time-consuming, you are making the CHOICE not to have friends in my opinion.

I definately think there's some truth to this. Just look at a trip for work if you've ever had to share rooms with a coworker. Guys who before I was friendly with but not close to, after sharing a hotel room sitting around in your boxers together, getting ready for a meeting or something, all that stuff developes a bond and you wind up being closer to those people afterwords typically.

Same with college you live with somoene your going to get close and form a bond.

I would somewhat disagree however in that making friends hasn't always been this hard. Whether you want to blame it on social media or a lesser quality of people these days or whatever I feel like in previous eras, just my perception I really have no idea, people valued friendships and relationships and connections much more. I know my grandfather has a number of friends he's been friends with for 50 years or more. They do stuff together, are friends of the family, etc. I feel like you dont see that as much these days.

Post: #43

Another thing is that some guys are there to help you grow.

I remember when I was 20 and not getting any pussy and had very beta like tendencies there was this guy I worked with, I believe he was like 25 at the time, he was a douchebag, guy fucked like 10 different chicks at that place and was always bragging about it, he would always talk shit to me about not having a girl and how I would dress, he would never go far enough because despite being such a beta at the time I have never be afraid to fight.

I always tried to avoid him because I did not want to deal with his shit but he would come up to me and talk to me and be cool, then he would go back to being a douche again, when I would stay quiet he would just keep going on.

After a while I got thicker skin and could take his insults, I started becoming tougher mentally and part of the reason I got successful with girls is by observing him, he was quick and straight to the point, he would get the bang very quickly and was never hung up on any one chick.

He eventually left but I learned more from that guy then he even knows, and while at the time I hated him he was nessasary. Eventually I would find myself in the opposite position and I did the same to this other guy at another job, he was just so beta that I felt I had to be rough on him, I couldnt stand seeing him act in a certain way, I was rough on that dude and I felt bad at times but I feel it was nessasary.

I wonder now could that guy been concious of how he acted towards me as I was to the guy at my job? Another thing I noticed is that Alphas can be friends but there is always this air of competition energy.

After all that I met this dude and we were alike in ways and just really got along, both alphas and when we would hang out we would be cool, laugh and talk but when around others I felt the need to one up him, whether it be a competition, getting a girl, even the smallest of things, I would get him, then he would get me, always returning the favor.

I actually think those jock/asshole type guys can be some of the best friends at some point, if inexperienced they will get under your skin and make you either curl up and become an even more bitter beta or light a fire and force you to man up, if you have been there done that they will push you to always be better, that is just the nature.

Post: #44

Great advice in this threat. I just realized I had no idea how to make friends.

Concerning friendships throughout history, I would say that we get to interact with so many people plus current labor flexibility, that the price of friendship has become so low, there is no access cost, which leads to people not valuing each of the connections that arise to us on a daily basis.

Post: #45

(10-08-2015 06:58 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  Interesting I have heard complaints about the people in Cali, complaints of many superficial and untrustworthy people.

I still want to go to Cali as I am from NY, I am sure I will end up there too at some point but its good to have a heads up.

I also hear people are genuinely laid back as opposed to the more uptight NYC'rs.

I've been here in LA for 3+ weeks and I'm disturbed by how flaky people are.

People seem really nice here but they never show up when you schedule something.

Post: #46

I am in the same shoes as the OP.... I am thinking of joining a tennis club just to make friends.... i

Post: #47

(10-16-2016 04:25 AM)Naughty By Nature Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 06:58 PM)TheDuncan Wrote:  Interesting I have heard complaints about the people in Cali, complaints of many superficial and untrustworthy people.

I still want to go to Cali as I am from NY, I am sure I will end up there too at some point but its good to have a heads up.

I also hear people are genuinely laid back as opposed to the more uptight NYC'rs.

I've been here in LA for 3+ weeks and I'm disturbed by how flaky people are.

People seem really nice here but they never show up when you schedule something.

Im in SoCal as well. People are fake as fuck, here. The niceness is just a mask.

Post: #48

I'd like to revive this topic as I started developing some question marks about my own male friendships in the past months.
My circle of friends mainly dates back to school and friends I made at school and their brothers. It evolves mainly around 6 guys, 3 out of which I'd say I'm still extremely close with, as in sharing private stuff that nobody else knows about me. The other 3, I somehow lost the connection to. But especially with one guy, who used to be my closest friend during some years, I almost completely lost the connection as regards content. At some point in our early 20s, we started developing into completely different directions and I feel that we are now the complete opposite of each other. In terms of political opinion, general worldview, lifestyle, in terms of the things we put emphasis on in our lives.

To cut it short, my general consideration is if it makes sense to finally cut the ties that grew extremely weak with the years anyway. Should you still spend time with a friend, invest the little free time and energy that remain after the working week, to meet up with a person who grew a total stranger to you in the past 10 years after 10 years of close friendship? Is it worth, or even doable, laughing about old common jokes, while fully realizing that if you'd meet today at your workplace, you'd never become more than colleagues? He still tries to contact me regularly, much more than I do reversely contact him, which I do value. But I can't even look at his life or listen to his current worldview without wanting to just walk away from his apartment at an invitation after 10 minutes.

Post: #49

When you're a bit older making male friends is indeed tough. Most of my friends are married with kids. In the last year or so male company has been thin.

One of my fall goals has been to make new male friends. It was not happening with my girlfriend around though. She went away for a week recently and during this time, I planted the roots of some new friendships. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

Post: #50

(09-24-2017 10:23 AM)goldenhinde Wrote:  I'd like to revive this topic as I started developing some question marks about my own male friendships in the past months.
My circle of friends mainly dates back to school and friends I made at school and their brothers. It evolves mainly around 6 guys, 3 out of which I'd say I'm still extremely close with, as in sharing private stuff that nobody else knows about me. The other 3, I somehow lost the connection to. But especially with one guy, who used to be my closest friend during some years, I almost completely lost the connection as regards content. At some point in our early 20s, we started developing into completely different directions and I feel that we are now the complete opposite of each other. In terms of political opinion, general worldview, lifestyle, in terms of the things we put emphasis on in our lives.

To cut it short, my general consideration is if it makes sense to finally cut the ties that grew extremely weak with the years anyway. Should you still spend time with a friend, invest the little free time and energy that remain after the working week, to meet up with a person who grew a total stranger to you in the past 10 years after 10 years of close friendship? Is it worth, or even doable, laughing about old common jokes, while fully realizing that if you'd meet today at your workplace, you'd never become more than colleagues? He still tries to contact me regularly, much more than I do reversely contact him, which I do value. But I can't even look at his life or listen to his current worldview without wanting to just walk away from his apartment at an invitation after 10 minutes.

This is me right now. I'm only 21 but I can already feel a lot of my relationships starting to fade. The worst is with one guy who I considered one of my best friends from ages 13-20. We used to hang out and talk shit almost every day.

The guy has basically just become arrogant as fuck -- but for completely nonsensical reasons. He kept bragging on and on about how good he was with women because he fucked this one girl who was half Filipino/Mexican. He starts dating her and initially I'm like whatever, good for him. I was happy for him for getting laid, I presumed that this girl was pretty cool.

Fast forward to me actually meeting her. This girl is fat, ghetto as fuck, has a kid, has had five abortions (including triplets), is a felon for stabbing someone, and on top of that is disrespectful and annoying as fuck.

Despite dating this absolute dumpster fire of a woman my buddy keeps acting like he's the shit. It's disgusting to watch and extremely unpleasant talking to him. Our conversations consist of him verbally vomiting out details about his life that I care nothing about. At some point he actually said "I'm literally Chad" and tried to give me advice on how "taking preworkout and bench pressing" before going out guarantees that you're going to take a girl home from the club.

Now this is bad for two reasons:

A) He's dating a girl who I would give a solid 2/10.

B) He brags about banging said 2

C) He brags about banging said 2 to me of all people. I've banged or gotten head from more than thirty women, 100% of whom were hotter and better people than his girlfriend. This is like someone who threw a shitty mix together on garage band talking shit and bragging to an actual musician.

D) He was one of my best buddies growing up, tons of hilarious memories, and it feels pretty shitty to lose respect for him like this.

I don't even know how to approach the situation or call him out, or whether I even should in the first place.