Post: #101

(10-01-2015 09:21 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:05 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  I'm not surprised by that. It was only one persons life in danger, right? Not the same as being lined up execution style by only one shooter and knowing for a fact you are going to die if you don't do something.

Nah, I've seen this a lot.

Average people are shocked into utter passivity by the reality of real world violence. For fuck's sake, they've been so coddled and protected by the social stability they take for granted every day that they equate people laughing at them on the internet with violence.

The moment things go violent or feral, they cannot mentally process it. They simply shut down and look to the ground - hoping that either the threat goes will go away or that someone else will solve the problem for them.

The only people that handle violence well have been in violent situations before or are natural sociopaths. Normal sheeple are worthless by design.

Post: #102

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

America has a demographic problem, not a gun problem.

Post: #103

The shooter went to a high school for children with Austism Spectrum Disorders and other learning disabilities.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/general-news/...zer-center

That makes this shooter, Adam Lanza, Elliott Rogers and The Virginia Tech Shooter all with an autism spectrum disorder.

Post: #104

As I read one time:

"I read somewhere that 1 out of 12 Americans owns a gun. This is TERRIBLE! A CRISIS! The problem is....how do we get guns to those other 11?"

Post: #105

(10-01-2015 09:31 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

America has a demographic problem, not a gun problem.

And... what do you mean by that?

So far, most of the shooters have been... white? middle class? "white hispanic"? Maybe the common thread is that they all couldn't get laid? Disaffected? medicated?

Fine - those are not unique problems to America among the developed world.

America has a demographic problem with respect to immigration, but I don't see a lot of illegal immigrants shooting up schools.

Post: #106

(10-01-2015 09:46 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  As I read one time:

"I read somewhere that 1 out of 12 Americans owns a gun. This is TERRIBLE! A CRISIS! The problem is....how do we get guns to those other 11?"

Yes, let's give guns to school children and high school teens.

Post: #107

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

Yea, the government will take my guns over my dead body.

Have we not learned anything from the history of gun control? Gun control was one of the primary enablers of the Armenian genocide, and I'll be damned if I see the same thing repeated under the guise of "protecting the people". First they made us register our weapons with the Turkish government. Then they came for those weapons. Then we were powerless to put up a fight.

Learn from history!!!!!

Post: #108

Delete

Post: #109

(10-01-2015 09:49 PM)armenia4ever Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

Yea, the government will take my guns over my dead body.

Have we not learned anything from the history of gun control? Gun control was one of the primary enablers of the Armenian genocide, and I'll be damned if I see the same thing repeated under the guise of "protecting the people". First they made us register our weapons with the Turkish government. Then they came for those weapons. Then we were powerless to put up a fight.

Learn from history!!!!!

Arm every man, woman, and child in america with a gun and i guarantee you the american military would put down a resistance faster than they dispatched the Iraqi Revolutionary Guard.

Your point is well taken, but it has absolutely zero grounding in today's reality.

Post: #110

(10-01-2015 09:52 PM)Vanguard Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

What a genius solution! We take all of the guns away and then the mentally-delusional psychopaths will completely forget and abandon their plans for mass anhiliation. After all, bombs can't be built, knives can't be bought, and guns can't be made using a 3-d printer or basic machinery... Right?

That's what Norway thought...until there was Anders Breivik.

Post: #111

(10-01-2015 09:27 PM)kleyau Wrote:  The only people that handle violence well have been in violent situations before or are natural sociopaths. Normal sheeple are worthless by design.

I think it's more these two abilities:

- Being able to accurately-identify the severity of a threat;

- Being able to block off the fear and shock response long enough to get the job done.

That latter part is a complete negation of self: you become force and will.

It's not always who you'd expect, either. The most unassuming man can grow a razor sharp edge in a crisis. I've known many paramedics who looked as threatening as Ram Z Paul, but the moment shit gets real, their focus was incredible.

Post: #112

(10-01-2015 09:49 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:46 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  As I read one time:

"I read somewhere that 1 out of 12 Americans owns a gun. This is TERRIBLE! A CRISIS! The problem is....how do we get guns to those other 11?"

Yes, let's give guns to school children and high school teens.

Nice strawman. Comes natural to you?

Post: #113

(10-01-2015 09:55 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:52 PM)Vanguard Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:16 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  It seems there is a critical mass problem to gun control.

I have no doubt that if there were a concerted effort to crack down on guns ie. zero tolerance, complete ban, a war on gun smuggling across the border, absolute and total repurchase of guns by the government - we would reduce these incidents. Yes, mental health is a rising issue in this country, but you're kidding yourself if you think this country is more mentally deranged per country than the next 10 OECD countries combined, when those countries, combined, have fewer shootings.

I do agree that anything short of that only shifts the ease of gun acquisition away from law abiding citizens and towards criminals, crazies, and terrorists. Unfortunately, with the second amendment, federalism, NRA, and political culture in this country, the former is near politically impossible. So we will get half-hearted "solutions" that don't really do anything. And when more shootings continue, the supporters of gun freedom will point to these "solutions" as evidence that gun control doesn't work.

On another note: it always strikes me as ludicrous how much of the american political discourse is based on the pretense that it is the only liberal, capitalist democracy in the world. Canada and Australia seem like infinitely less dysfunctional, per capita, countries than the U.S. Singapore and Hong Kong, while not real democracies, seem to provide better standards of living, lower taxes, vice freedoms like prostitution ie. libertarian authoritarianism. None of them have second amendment rights and, uh, they aren't exactly castro's cuba.

When I am of parenting age I will be GTFOing out of the U.S. Too much unnecessary shit compared to peer developed countries - gun violence, police brutality, cowboy interventionist foreign policy, affirmative action, shitty divorce laws, insane tuition (even for public universities), false rape epidemic. I realize other countries have some of these things, but I can name no other developed country with all of these issues.

What a genius solution! We take all of the guns away and then the mentally-delusional psychopaths will completely forget and abandon their plans for mass anhiliation. After all, bombs can't be built, knives can't be bought, and guns can't be made using a 3-d printer or basic machinery... Right?

That's what Norway thought...until there was Anders Breivik.

Understood - you can't completely eliminate mass shootings. But if you dramatically reduce the incidence of them, that's better than nothing. And if you dramatically reduce the damage inflicted by them, also good.

Look, crazies are going to do what they do no matter what - but let's not make it easy for them to do it.

Post: #114

You should really wait for the particulars of the case before you spout off that it was 'easy' to do it.

Post: #115

(10-01-2015 09:57 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:49 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:46 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  As I read one time:

"I read somewhere that 1 out of 12 Americans owns a gun. This is TERRIBLE! A CRISIS! The problem is....how do we get guns to those other 11?"

Yes, let's give guns to school children and high school teens.

Nice strawman. Comes natural to you?

It's not a strawman. Probably half of these shootings are at schools. Even if you armed every adult, what is to protect kids from being sitting ducks? I guess you could have armed guards at schools...

Post: #116

Delete

Post: #117

If you study mass shootings in the USA, several things stand out:

1) usually loners (not always, but usually)
2) they case areas of mass, unarmed targets (schools, malls, churches, movie theaters)
3) they usually intend to die by suicide or death-by-cop after killing maximum victims
4) they are, at heart, cowards. None would face an armed opponent in a remotely fair fight.

They are cowards, and mentally deranged...but not stupid. They have a plan.

Given this, I propose:

We have a "Ground Marshals" program, similar to the Air Marshals program. Selected adults, who work in the targeted areas, who CCW and are trained to respond to these incidents. Just as in the AM program, not EVERY adult is armed...but who is armed is unknown to the shooter....just as it is in the Air Marshal program.

These GMs dont even have to "hit" the shooter. To fire back is to disrupt their plan, and degrade/stop their attack. Lives are saved.

The uncertainty of knowing who is armed and ready to fight, and who is not, will deter the majority of these diseased fucktards. They want easy publicity, multiple deaths, and a final shootout. To die at the beginning is not. their. plan.

But....the Nanny State will not allow this idea. As the Chattanooga event showed...even our SERVICEMEN cannot defend themselves (legally). Travesty.

Post: #118

CNN can confirm that he was a beta male.

Post: #119

(10-01-2015 09:56 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:27 PM)kleyau Wrote:  The only people that handle violence well have been in violent situations before or are natural sociopaths. Normal sheeple are worthless by design.

I think it's more these two abilities:

- Being able to accurately-identify the severity of a threat;

- Being able to block off the fear and shock response long enough to get the job done.

That latter part is a complete negation of self: you become force and will.

It's not always who you'd expect, either. The most unassuming man can grow a razor sharp edge in a crisis. I've known many paramedics who looked as threatening as Ram Z Paul, but the moment shit gets real, their focus was incredible.

I should have added "Or had significant, stressful training."

It is always who I expect, but I've been doing this a long time.

Post: #120

(10-01-2015 10:14 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  If you study mass shootings in the USA, several things stand out:

1) usually loners (not always, but usually)
2) they case areas of mass, unarmed targets (schools, malls, churches, movie theaters)
3) they usually intend to die by suicide or death-by-cop after killing maximum victims
4) they are, at heart, cowards. None would face an armed opponent in a remotely fair fight.

They are cowards, and mentally deranged...but not stupid. They have a plan.

Given this, I propose:

We have a "Ground Marshals" program, similar to the Air Marshals program. Selected adults, who work in the targeted areas, who CCW and are trained to respond to these incidents. Just as in the AM program, not EVERY adult is armed...but who is armed is unknown to the shooter....just as it is in the Air Marshal program.

These GMs dont even have to "hit" the shooter. To fire back is to disrupt their plan, and degrade/stop their attack. Lives are saved.

The uncertainty of knowing who is armed and ready to fight, and who is not, will deter the majority of these diseased fucktards. They want easy publicity, multiple deaths, and a final shootout. To die at the beginning is not. their. plan.

But....the Nanny State will not allow this idea. As the Chattanooga event showed...even our SERVICEMEN cannot defend themselves (legally). Travesty.

We disagree about everything else on this issue, but I agree with this plan.

Post: #121

Make firearm and tactical training required in the same semester as sex-ed and rape-culture training -- life and death classes of equal nature.

Post: #122

(10-01-2015 09:49 PM)SHANbangs Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:46 PM)LeeEnfield303 Wrote:  As I read one time:

"I read somewhere that 1 out of 12 Americans owns a gun. This is TERRIBLE! A CRISIS! The problem is....how do we get guns to those other 11?"

Yes, let's give guns to school children and high school teens.

Wait, you and your friends didn't get guns as kids? Seriously?

Post: #123

The media is referencing the absurd "White Americans are Biggest Terror Risk" study in reference to this shooting.

Guy isn't white though...

Post: #124

(10-01-2015 09:56 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(10-01-2015 09:27 PM)kleyau Wrote:  The only people that handle violence well have been in violent situations before or are natural sociopaths. Normal sheeple are worthless by design.

I think it's more these two abilities:

- Being able to accurately-identify the severity of a threat;

- Being able to block off the fear and shock response long enough to get the job done.

That latter part is a complete negation of self: you become force and will.

It's not always who you'd expect, either. The most unassuming man can grow a razor sharp edge in a crisis. I've known many paramedics who looked as threatening as Ram Z Paul, but the moment shit gets real, their focus was incredible.

And those abilities almost always have to be trained. By design, the average person has no experience with violent threats. It is hard/impossible to accurately identify the severity of a threat if you have no experience with threats of a wide range of severity (from mere posturing to grave). Being able to block off the fear and shock response is also hard/impossible without training. Adrenaline kicks in and everything goes loopy. It's even harder if you've been trained to submit and wait for external help (basically everyone in America).

Post: #125

(10-01-2015 10:27 PM)Eskhander Wrote:  Guy isn't white though...

I guess you were out of the country when the whole Zimmerman thing was going down.....