Post: #1

This is something that we should all keep a watchful eye on. A writer volunteered to have a vehicle he was driving exploited by hackers. It's kind of long, but I'll post the link, and highlight some relevant parts.

Quote:I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold.

Though I hadn’t touched the dashboard, the vents in the Jeep Cherokee started blasting cold air at the maximum setting, chilling the sweat on my back through the in-seat climate control system. Next the radio switched to the local hip hop station and began blaring Skee-lo at full volume. I spun the control knob left and hit the power button, to no avail. Then the windshield wipers turned on, and wiper fluid blurred the glass.

Just imagine what could happen if you weren't expecting this, and the hacker had eyes on you in traffic.

Quote: Their code is an automaker’s nightmare: software that lets hackers send commands through the Jeep’s entertainment system to its dashboard functions, steering, brakes, and transmission, all from a laptop that may be across the country.

Wasn't Michael Hastings, the writer killed in a single vehicle collision?

Quote:As the two hackers remotely toyed with the air-conditioning, radio, and windshield wipers, I mentally congratulated myself on my courage under pressure. That’s when they cut the transmission.

Immediately my accelerator stopped working. As I frantically pressed the pedal and watched the RPMs climb, the Jeep lost half its speed, then slowed to a crawl. This occurred just as I reached a long overpass, with no shoulder to offer an escape. The experiment had ceased to be fun.

At that point, the interstate began to slope upward, so the Jeep lost more momentum and barely crept forward. Cars lined up behind my bumper before passing me, honking. I could see an 18-wheeler approaching in my rearview mirror. I hoped its driver saw me, too, and could tell I was paralyzed on the highway.

Miller and Valasek’s full arsenal includes functions that at lower speeds fully kill the engine, abruptly engage the brakes, or disable them altogether. The most disturbing maneuver came when they cut the Jeep’s brakes, leaving me frantically pumping the pedal as the 2-ton SUV slid uncontrollably into a ditch. The researchers say they’re working on perfecting their steering control—for now they can only hijack the wheel when the Jeep is in reverse. Their hack enables surveillance too: They can track a targeted Jeep’s GPS coordinates, measure its speed, and even drop pins on a map to trace its route.
Miller attempts to rescue the Jeep after its brakes were remotely disabled, sending it into a ditch. Click to Open Overlay Gallery
Miller attempts to rescue the Jeep after its brakes were remotely disabled, sending it into a ditch. Andy Greenberg/WIRED


The two researchers say that even if their code makes it easier for malicious hackers to attack unpatched Jeeps, the release is nonetheless warranted because it allows their work to be proven through peer review. It also sends a message: Automakers need to be held accountable for their vehicles’ digital security. “If consumers don’t realize this is an issue, they should, and they should start complaining to carmakers,” Miller says. “This might be the kind of software bug most likely to kill someone.”

There's more to the article that you can read for yourselves. But just imagine a pissed off ex getting with someone that can do this stuff.

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-rem...p-highway/

Post: #2

Maybe now they'll start making cars with manual overrides for the electronics.

Post: #3

(07-28-2015 08:44 AM)vinman Wrote:  This is something that we should all keep a watchful eye on. A writer volunteered to have a vehicle he was driving exploited by hackers. It's kind of long, but I'll post the link, and highlight some relevant parts.

Quote:I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold.

Though I hadn’t touched the dashboard, the vents in the Jeep Cherokee started blasting cold air at the maximum setting, chilling the sweat on my back through the in-seat climate control system. Next the radio switched to the local hip hop station and began blaring Skee-lo at full volume. I spun the control knob left and hit the power button, to no avail. Then the windshield wipers turned on, and wiper fluid blurred the glass.

Just imagine what could happen if you weren't expecting this, and the hacker had eyes on you in traffic.

Quote: Their code is an automaker’s nightmare: software that lets hackers send commands through the Jeep’s entertainment system to its dashboard functions, steering, brakes, and transmission, all from a laptop that may be across the country.

Wasn't Michael Hastings, the writer killed in a single vehicle collision?

Quote:As the two hackers remotely toyed with the air-conditioning, radio, and windshield wipers, I mentally congratulated myself on my courage under pressure. That’s when they cut the transmission.

Immediately my accelerator stopped working. As I frantically pressed the pedal and watched the RPMs climb, the Jeep lost half its speed, then slowed to a crawl. This occurred just as I reached a long overpass, with no shoulder to offer an escape. The experiment had ceased to be fun.

At that point, the interstate began to slope upward, so the Jeep lost more momentum and barely crept forward. Cars lined up behind my bumper before passing me, honking. I could see an 18-wheeler approaching in my rearview mirror. I hoped its driver saw me, too, and could tell I was paralyzed on the highway.

Miller and Valasek’s full arsenal includes functions that at lower speeds fully kill the engine, abruptly engage the brakes, or disable them altogether. The most disturbing maneuver came when they cut the Jeep’s brakes, leaving me frantically pumping the pedal as the 2-ton SUV slid uncontrollably into a ditch. The researchers say they’re working on perfecting their steering control—for now they can only hijack the wheel when the Jeep is in reverse. Their hack enables surveillance too: They can track a targeted Jeep’s GPS coordinates, measure its speed, and even drop pins on a map to trace its route.
Miller attempts to rescue the Jeep after its brakes were remotely disabled, sending it into a ditch. Click to Open Overlay Gallery
Miller attempts to rescue the Jeep after its brakes were remotely disabled, sending it into a ditch. Andy Greenberg/WIRED


The two researchers say that even if their code makes it easier for malicious hackers to attack unpatched Jeeps, the release is nonetheless warranted because it allows their work to be proven through peer review. It also sends a message: Automakers need to be held accountable for their vehicles’ digital security. “If consumers don’t realize this is an issue, they should, and they should start complaining to carmakers,” Miller says. “This might be the kind of software bug most likely to kill someone.”

There's more to the article that you can read for yourselves. But just imagine a pissed off ex getting with someone that can do this stuff.

http://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-rem...p-highway/

[quote]I was driving 70 mph on the edge of downtown St. Louis when the exploit began to take hold.

The fact that they began their hack experiment at high speed on a public highway showed severe lack of good judgement as they put other motorists at risk even to the point of slowing to a crawl on a highway with a Tractor Trailer rig behind the driver then running into a ditch. Dumb really Dumb - but - important to test and make facts public - would have been better to test at a huge parking lot etc on a no traffic day and not at 70mph... I will not be buying any FCA products too soon however i am sure Ford and GM as well as Toyota etc., scrambling to test their vehicles as well.

Post: #4

I'm thinking I might go back to my 1992 Mercury Grand Marquis. Rear wheel drive is fun in the snow, with the added benefit of not being able to be hacked into.

Post: #5

The article makes it seem like this is a general problem in any modern car. However, this totally wireless remote exploit appears to be limited to the 2013, 2014, and 2015 Jeep Cherokee. The article states that if you know the IP address of the Jeep, you can execute this remote exploit. On the great scale of things, this is pretty low on my list of things to worry about.

Post: #6

Fortunately, my favorite transport method is immune to hacking:

Post: #7

American car makers are among the dumbest of dumb. Seriously allowing an entertainment console full duplex with the ECM (engine control module) is retarded. Once the vehicle leaves the factory the ECM should only report engine stats to the entertainment console.

I have no desire to ever own an American car. I have nothing but disdain for most cartainment consoles, especially since most of them lock out features while driving.

And on that note, car computers ECM/Entertainemnt or otherwise are the worst thing to ever hit an automobile.

Post: #8

Yup old cars might be a good idea, I miss cable throttle vs electronic.

Post: #9

And Google wants to massify their self-driving cars....

Post: #10

(07-28-2015 10:33 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  American car makers are among the dumbest of dumb. Seriously allowing an entertainment console full duplex with the ECM (engine control module) is retarded. Once the vehicle leaves the factory the ECM should only report engine stats to the entertainment console.

I have no desire to ever own an American car. I have nothing but disdain for most cartainment consoles, especially since most of them lock out features while driving.

And on that note, car computers ECM/Entertainemnt or otherwise are the worst thing to ever hit an automobile.

What you're trying to refer to is this..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus

The computers talk to eachother. A regular ECM in like a 1995 civic can't be shut off but hackers.

Quote: American car makers are among the dumbest of dumb.

They all have it. Euro car electrics are the worst Japanese being the best.

Post: #11

This is why I like old cars.

I knew this stuff was possible from the eve of OnStar.

Post: #12

(07-28-2015 10:15 AM)Menace Wrote:  The article makes it seem like this is a general problem in any modern car. However, this totally wireless remote exploit appears to be limited to the 2013, 2014, and 2015 Jeep Cherokee. The article states that if you know the IP address of the Jeep, you can execute this remote exploit. On the great scale of things, this is pretty low on my list of things to worry about.

Are you reading the same article? Please point out where it states that. Relevant quotes (bold emphasis is mine):

Quote:All of this is possible only because Chrysler, like practically all carmakers, is doing its best to turn the modern automobile into a smartphone. Uconnect, an Internet-connected computer feature in hundreds of thousands of Fiat Chrysler cars, SUVs, and trucks, controls the vehicle’s entertainment and navigation, enables phone calls, and even offers a Wi-Fi hot spot. And thanks to one vulnerable element, which Miller and Valasek won’t identify until their Black Hat talk, Uconnect’s cellular connection also lets anyone who knows the car’s IP address gain access from anywhere in the country. “From an attacker’s perspective, it’s a super nice vulnerability,” Miller says.

Quote:Miller and Valasek say the attack on the entertainment system seems to work on any Chrysler vehicle with Uconnect from late 2013, all of 2014, and early 2015. They’ve only tested their full set of physical hacks, including ones targeting transmission and braking systems, on a Jeep Cherokee, though they believe that most of their attacks could be tweaked to work on any Chrysler vehicle with the vulnerable Uconnect head unit. They have yet to try remotely hacking into other makes and models of cars.

The fact that even the most basic of strong security measures hasn't been taken by automakers to this point is indicative of how many huge vulnerabilities like this are bound to exist.

Post: #13

(07-28-2015 10:33 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  American car makers are among the dumbest of dumb.

I have no desire to ever own an American car.

Uninformed consumers are great.

Post: #14

(07-28-2015 10:23 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Fortunately, my favorite transport method is immune to hacking:

Your legs are not immune to hacking, specifically the old fashioned kind.

Post: #15

Obligatory Antitranshumanist Rant: if they can do this to a car's technology, iamgine what'll they do as they make technology wearable/implanted biologically.

Post: #16

After selling cars, I think it's essentially a great way to waste money. Old cars last longer and aren't a money sewer, not to mention, they're cheaper to repair and can't be hacked.

With Uber, lyft, zipcar and whatever else will pop up, the need for a vehicle is dwindling.

Great post V. Mental +1.

Post: #17

Makes me think about iRobot.

Will smith's character and his desire for non digital goods seems like less of a scifi only reality.

Honestly makes it seem like if you want power in this world created from your own person you now can add hacking into an strength that's ceiling is only increasing as we streamline digit stuff into our daily lives more and more.

Post: #18

(07-28-2015 01:50 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

(07-28-2015 10:15 AM)Menace Wrote:  The article makes it seem like this is a general problem in any modern car. However, this totally wireless remote exploit appears to be limited to the 2013, 2014, and 2015 Jeep Cherokee. The article states that if you know the IP address of the Jeep, you can execute this remote exploit. On the great scale of things, this is pretty low on my list of things to worry about.

Are you reading the same article? Please point out where it states that. Relevant quotes (bold emphasis is mine):

Yeah, you're right. My mistake. Still not buying an old car. I'll take my chances with modern tech.

Post: #19

I'd be more scared of the government building backdoors into the auto.

Late on your taxes? Your car won't start.

Didn't pay that speeding ticket? Car will cut off and not start back up.

Run one of those red light cams? Car won't start next time you get in.

You're rushing your Eastern bloc gf to the hospital because her water broke and a cop pulls in back of you but you won't stop because you're on the way to the ER? Car will be aborted mid-transit by the police.

Post: #20

They already have remote immobilization devices installed in cars if you're poor and have shit credit. Have to type in a code every month after you make a payment or the car gets turned off.

Post: #21

Makes me wonder if that's what happened to Malaysia Airlines 370.

Post: #22

(07-28-2015 09:30 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Makes me wonder if that's what happened to Malaysia Airlines 370.

Perhaps.

From a political perspective think of the implications for this technology. If the US wants a foreign leader/dignitary dead you can hack his jet and fly it into a mountain. No witnesses, no survivors and you have plausible deniability.

Post: #23

One benefit to self driving cars is that it would be the end of traffic jams. Worth it? Well, my vehicles are 13-30 years old and work fine for me.

Post: #24

(07-29-2015 08:47 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  One benefit to self driving cars is that it would be the end of traffic jams. Worth it? Well, my vehicles are 13-30 years old and work fine for me.

I'd rather drive 90MPH in a 70 with my truck.

That is what will hold back self driving.

Post: #25

(07-29-2015 08:47 PM)Gorgiass Wrote:  One benefit to self driving cars is that it would be the end of traffic jams.

Sorry but this is the most moronic statement ever. How can a red pill guy buy such shallow propaganda?

Traffic jams are dependent on how many people want to reach the same destination and how many roads are leading to that destination and how wide these roads are. it has nothing to do with self driving cars. The only thing that will change is that some losers will be forced to take longer roads to distribute traffic equally among all the roads. If a thousand people select the same destination as their goal there is going to be a traffic jam with or without self driving cars unless the car just brutally refuses you to take there which I imagine will actually start to happen if these cars become the norm and normal cars are made illegal.

Also if the car will make the decision about the route to reach destination it will take away so much. Maybe you will miss your favorite view or maybe you will be forced to drive trough a bad neighborhood, which you bet won't be recognized in the politically correct map.

Self driving cars are only good for big corporations like Google who want to control everything and profit from everything. If an individual says he looks forward to self driving cars for any reason then I have nothing but contempt for him.