Post: #1

I feel a little out of place on this forum due to the fact that most of you seem to be attractive. I'm not. I've been considered ugly since about the age of ten. Please no condescending suggestions for changing this. That is not the point of this post and I'm not here to pick fights with you younger and/or better looking dudes. Just don't pretend you know what it is like. You don't. And no I'd rather not hear about your ugly friend who scores tons of 'hot' chicks.

I am in my mid 40s now. Back in my mid 20s I started traveling to try to get girls. For 2 decades I have been looking for some kind of Shangri La anywhere on this planet where being ugly doesn't matter as much to pretty girls. My first foreign destination, Cuba, was the result of my going to a Speed Seduction Seminar in Cancun and realizing that while there I had to check out one of the most famous p4p destinations at that time.

This led to pretty much the only sex I had in my twenties. P4P but quite amateur and young and very cheap and they were like real girls. Not the more typical hardened prostitutes. I did manage to get a real gf there as well for a few months and I ended up living there for more than a year. It was hard to leave a place where I could get pussy even if it was mostly p4p, but it is and was also a very difficult place to live.

Next I tried Colombia and that seemed like a great place because the sheer number of beautiful girls was so impressive I figured I might have a better chance to get one. I also really like their personalities and still consider them some of the friendliest people on the planet.

But still the pretty Colombianas were not happy with how I looked. Even some of the fat Rolas who didn't interest me that much rejected me. Still it was definitely one of the best places I'd encountered up to that point. I ended up living there for almost a year. I loved it, but in the end the girls weren't interested in ugly dudes like me. Nevertheless this is one place I would still consider returning to.

I also lived in Montreal. The other place in the Americas with lots of hot girls. Again it seemed like an easier place than the U.S. but it was not easy enough and although I had some close calls I never was able to get any girls there either.

After that I tried Asia. First Malaysia where the Chinese Malaysian girls in Kuala Lumpur were pretty but totally uninterested in foreigners as a rule. Then Laos. Although the country had very few pretty girls per capita I thought the people were friendly and kind. But the girls didn't seem too enthusiastic about me and I had no success except for getting a hot girl to agree to marry me, which I didn't go for because I had not learned Lao well enough to speak to her at all. I later decided this was a mistake.

Now I am in the Philippines which I always thought of as a country of last resort or as a place to go when I was older. Well now I am older, but unfortunately this place is also not a Shangri La for ugly guys.

I do understand why it is so popular here though. If you are above some bare minimum of attractiveness and don't mind fucking 6s I doubt there is any other place quite like this. If you are a really good looking young guy then there is probably no girl in this country you couldn't have. Looks are truly everything here.

These are some of the most looks and image conscious girls I've ever encountered and the true hotties here, and there are a lot of them if you like the type of faces I do, will either swat down an ugly guy in the rudest possible way or lead him on long enough to try to get expensive meals and other freebies before just ignoring him. It really is a completely different world here depending on where you lie on the attractiveness + age scale and whether you are chasing 5s and 6s or 7s and 8s.

I've been living here in Cebu City for 6 months and not once have I seen a 7+ with *any* foreign guy who is either unattractive or older than late twenties. 99% of the girls I see with foreigners here vary between ugly and plain and nearly all have dark skin.

I haven't yet given up completely on this country, but I've given up on the cities here. If you are an ugly older guy with at least some taste my advice would be to give this place a pass.

Lots of people have recommended the girls from the provinces (countryside) and that is what I will be exploring soon, but I am now thinking in terms of an exit strategy.

My two main prospects are Laos and Cambodia. Vietnam possibly but some things I've read here about it support the idea that I would have more value in other countries. I'd also consider leaving Asia and going back to Colombia or even Cuba. Or even trying Eastern Europe.

What I like about Asia is that cross-racial perceptions of attractiveness can blur facial differences to some extent at least with some people in some places without many Westerners. The hope is that there will be less difference to them between my face and that of a better looking guy.

Post: #2

I really hope it was fat rolas and not fat rolos who rejected you. Other than that, I'm speechless.

Edit: I see you made the correction. Thanks.

Post: #3

Well it really is like a different world for you guys. So I'd expect that reaction. Changed to Rolas. Thanks for not being condescending and making the usual suggestions. It's what the world is like when you have low market value. It's a totally different game for us ugly guys.

Post: #4

Look at the bright side. You have the money and time to go to all these places. Many guys don't, so if they look average or below, they have to settle for unattractive girls in the West and/or go through long dry spells.

I hope you stay in shape and wear decent clothes. For a guy, it's easier to boost his attractiveness this way compared to girls. Also, experimenting with haircuts, hats and beards can make you look better.

In Asia, girls from poorer families who don't have much to look forward to appreciate a man who will stay with them and not sleep around. They will forgive a lot of physical flaws if they find a man they can trust. Unfortunately, many of them sooner or later will start hitting you up for money to support the family, so you still need game to avoid that.

Btw don't take my suggestions as condescending. I bet you sleep with more attractive girls in the Philippines than I do in the US.

Post: #5

Well you're 45ish. There comes a time when you have to accept what you can get. Unless you're confident you have some trait you can greatly improve in the next few years, best to settle for something rather than hoping for models and ending up with nothing.

Post: #6

Well I'm the king of dry spells. 16 years until my recent experience with a prostitute here. And most of my teens and 20s were dry as well. Yeah I stay in decent shape. My clothes are not the best, but I don't think that makes such a huge difference. I've experimented with wearing nicer clothes here and it hasn't helped me in any noticeable way. I do plan to start dressing better. Every little bit helps. I was just hoping I wouldn't have to worry so much about my looks here. I figured this place would all be gold diggers. I'm still in shock at the Big Lie.

In terms of staying in shape I've found that my age is a huge problem. In my twenties I used to be able to lift weights and gain at least some muscle mass pretty quickly. Even in my early 30s it wasn't so tough. Now in my 40s it's like being a girl at the gym. I can lift hard and get pretty much no visible results. Must have much lower testosterone levels. I'd really need to take roids I think, but illegal drugs in this country are pretty much unavailable. Another reason I'm considering Cambodia. Oxycontin? Seriously? Sounds like heaven. Not sure I'm really prepared to do roids if only because I'm not convinced of the payoff. I lifted heavily in my teens and twenties and still girls had no interest.

I think in (mainland) Asia girls do appreciate that to an extent but it's a practical consideration. They'll still want to fuck the natural alphas. It's like the difference between doing your homework and having fun. They may force themselves to do homework, but it isn't what they really want to be doing. Here in the Phils they just don't think about stuff like that. They don't think about the future except for the near future where they imagine showing you off to their friends and the social stigma involved with dating/marrying an ugly older western guy. The 7s and 8s will not do it no matter how much it would change their lives. Even the ones living in the poorest imaginable conditions won't 'lower' themselves that far. It would shame them too much and drop their super-elevated status here. Beauty is worshiped here and the 7s and 8s act like royalty.

The money to support the family thing is much worse here I think than in real Asian countries. Yet another downside among a long list for this country. The girls are brainwashed and raised to believe they are slaves whose only value is in serving their parents. So they will simply give them 80% or more of whatever income they have control over. I find it funny that these girls are so dumb they think some young good looking guy is going to actually marry them and live the rest of their lives supporting their parents and 10+ brothers and sisters. It happens but it's so rare. Most just pump and dump them and they never learn. I think there is also a difference between what they say they want and what they really want. I think that getting pumped and dumped by attractive and young and ideally alpha western guys is what they really want, but like everything here it's all about pretending.

Post: #7

Saying that you had a 16 year dry spell and that you broke it with a prostitute isn't credible.

Post: #8

I'm having a hard time finding any of this credible. Wasn't there a thread somewhere here about some dude with a disfigured face scoring with chicks using game?

And by the way, OP: you may be right about your looks. Well, I'm deaf. Do I let that stop me? Neither should you.

Post: #9

Post: #10

(07-13-2015 10:18 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  Well you're 45ish. There comes a time when you have to accept what you can get. Unless you're confident you have some trait you can greatly improve in the next few years, best to settle for something rather than hoping for models and ending up with nothing.

Yeah I know. Actually I had already mostly given up in my late 30s. I mean hell if I couldn't even get girls in Cuba and Colombia in my twenties then what could I possibly expect in my late 30s? It just seemed like a silly waste of time to me. It's really only the promise and rumors about this country that has gotten me hooked on the whole gf quest thing again.

I probably could get a high 5 on my scale here which is Barely Attractive for me. In fact there's a 19 year old girl who right now seems to be hoping I will at least meet her, but because she's only a 5.8 or something I am not too interested. Of course an LTR or even marriage is what she is hoping for. It's all about supporting her very poor family. I might have to accept an LTR with such a girl, but only if I have to and marriage isn't on the table for me for any girl here less than a 7.

I hate the culture and people here too much to marry into it without a damn good reason. Still I think there are some possibilities for quid pro quo LTRs here if I am willing to accept a high 5 to a low 6. Not in the cities though. It pretty much means I have to live here too and that doesn't thrill me either. Would much rather settle for a high 5 or low 6 in countries where girls have actual personalities and where the food is edible. If I'm going to marry a girl I'd much rather marry into a Lao or Colombian family where I know I like the people.

I actually got a couple of dates with an 8.0 here recently, but you have to understand how little that means here. It means nothing. Just that she wanted a free meal or two. Got my hopes up a little though. I even tossed out the marriage card, but she wasn't interested in that even though she and her family are poor and she works constantly and has no time for an actual life. Would do pretty much anything to get an 8.0, but yeah that's like model level beauty and obviously unrealistic.

Post: #11

(07-13-2015 10:35 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  Saying that you had a 16 year dry spell and that you broke it with a prostitute isn't credible.

Why would someone lie about that? What would that accomplish? I'm actually surprised that people are doubting my story. Ask for details. I'll provide them. Ask me about any of those places and if you've lived there I think you will recognize that I have too. You do realize that there are ForeverAlone guys, right? I mean I realize that you guys aren't ugly, but I hope you do realize that ugly people exist.

Post: #12

(07-13-2015 10:32 PM)uglyzombie Wrote:  Now in my 40s it's like being a girl at the gym. I can lift hard and get pretty much no visible results. Must have much lower testosterone levels. I'd really need to take roids I think,

Sorry, but I call bullshit on this comment. I'm early 40s, and have no trouble gaining muscle if I put the work in.

Post: #13

(07-13-2015 10:51 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I'm having a hard time finding any of this credible. Wasn't there a thread somewhere here about some dude with a disfigured face scoring with chicks using game?

And by the way, OP: you may be right about your looks. Well, I'm deaf. Do I let that stop me? Neither should you.

Sometimes I hear ugly guys boasting about their game and how they can get hot chicks despite their looks. Then I see the chicks they are talking about and I'm not impressed. I guess guys have different taste and all that but at least by my beauty standards I have yet to see an ugly guy pull hot girls.

Well except for one case with a guy in Colombia. One reason I think Colombia may be better than the Phils if you are ugly. I think both accepted age gaps and the degree to which looks are considered important are better in Colombia and probably Cuba as well. Maybe I am too picky, but I am the way I am. I can't force myself to find girls I don't find attractive attractive.

Being deaf is I think not as bad as being ugly. At least here in the Philippines. Yeah it means you cannot really compete with non-deaf guys at your same level of attractiveness, but you can still probably beat less attractive guys in most places in the world.

Post: #14

If you're as ugly as you say your are, then be happy if you can get a 5. That's still a major upgrade for an extremely ugly dude. Most ugly men are with ugly women. Why do you deserve a different fate than they? You sound very entitled to me. Like you think you just deserve an 8 as a birthright. Nobody has to like you. We all have a value in the market. If a pretty young thing can easily get a young guy who's good looking, why on earth would you she choose you? Would you choose you if you were a hot young girl and had a wide pick of men? I doubt it. Some hit the genetic lottery and some didn't. Deal with it. If you can't improve yourself to the point of getting the girls you want, then just find some other purpose in life...or lower your expectations accordingly.

Post: #15

Sixteen year dry spell troll. Another new breed.

CleanSlate is deaf. Hotwheels, I think, admittedly has Asperger's and we read about him banging someone new all the time. Another guy here is facially disfigured. This thread is garbage.

Post: #16

(07-13-2015 11:03 PM)Lizard King Wrote:  Sorry, but I call bullshit on this comment. I'm early 40s, and have no trouble gaining muscle if I put the work in.

So is this like a thing here? Calling bullshit on everything? How exactly is that detail important anyway? As I said it didn't help my game in my twenties. So I don't think it would help it a great deal more now. You sincerely doubt that different guys can have different testosterone levels or that different guys can have drops in testosterone at different points in their lives? Or is this like some sort of denial on your part that eventually the same thing will happen to you?

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/03...-the-rise/

Note the points about testosterone declining in your 30s and 30% of men with true testosterone deficiencies in their 40s. If I have to back up every single statement I make here with references this is going to get tiresome.

Aren't there any guys here with data to support some country as being good for ugly guys? I mean that was pretty much the point of this post. Or at least opinions on Laos vs Cambodia vs Colombia in this regard? There is lots of country data here but it all seems to be based on the experiences of non-ugly guys and while that data is suggestive of a correlation it is not definitive. A place that is great for you guys (like the Philippines) may not be so great for less attractive guys.

Post: #17

Maybe part of it for you would be better expectations management, as unmet expectations can quickly evolve into pessimism and negativity... which could leak through into your body language.

For example, on the flip side, I'm in my 20s and handsome (at the risk of sounding immodest)... and I do bag some hot girls, but I also do get rejected with frequency in the streets, in nightclubs, and online... even in Colombia and the Philippines, and by 7s, as well.

So don't get too caught up with your youth and looks; rejection is quite normal.

Philippines do sound like your best bet. Girls are less sensitive to looks there, especially with foreigners, and very open to older guys.

You absolutely need to dress better, though. Girls are less lenient on that for older men, including the Philippines. And you should be working out, too.

Post: #18

(07-13-2015 11:09 PM)uglyzombie Wrote:  Sometimes I hear ugly guys boasting about their game and how they can get hot chicks despite their looks. Then I see the chicks they are talking about and I'm not impressed. I guess guys have different taste and all that but at least by my beauty standards I have yet to see an ugly guy pull hot girls.

Well except for one case with a guy in Colombia. One reason I think Colombia may be better than the Phils if you are ugly. I think both accepted age gaps and the degree to which looks are considered important are better in Colombia and probably Cuba as well. Maybe I am too picky, but I am the way I am. I can't force myself to find girls I don't find attractive attractive.

All I see here are excuses and a self-defeatist attitude. You also deem your standards so high that you take yourself out of the game altogether.

(07-13-2015 11:09 PM)uglyzombie Wrote:  Being deaf is I think not as bad as being ugly. At least here in the Philippines. Yeah it means you cannot really compete with non-deaf guys at your same level of attractiveness, but you can still probably beat less attractive guys in most places in the world.

I'm sorry, but that's bull. I cannot count how many times I've been in the middle of a set at a bar, club, or party, only to have a less attractive guy come in and interrupt our conversation. Only the guy has better game than my own, and the girl loses interest in me and goes off with him. On the flip side, I've slept with girls whose ex boyfriends or beta orbiters, all non-deaf, are better looking than I.

For me, it's all about understanding the situation AND using it to my advantage (or if that's not possible - leave, go elsewhere). This may be harsh, but it is clear to me that you don't really understand your own situation and are using your looks as an excuse. You're in the Philippines for crying out loud. Wanna trade places with me? I'd say yes in a microsecond!

EDIT: If you are concerned about your testosterone levels, do get that checked. Low testosterone is a very real health problem. You may need TRT.

Post: #19

All the kneejerk troll accusations these days are getting pretty annoying.

Post: #20

(07-13-2015 11:11 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  If you're as ugly as you say your are, then be happy if you can get a 5. That's still a major upgrade for an extremely ugly dude. Most ugly men are with ugly women. Why do you deserve a different fate than they? You sound very entitled to me. Like you think you just deserve an 8 as a birthright. Nobody has to like you.

Would you be happy to be able to get a 5? Then don't expect me to be either. Being ugly doesn't make your brain any different. I don't like being with someone I don't find attractive any more than you do. As far as being entitled I haven't asked anyone to provide me with a hot girl. I've spent the last quarter century at least doing all my own research and getting rejected all on my own thank you very much. I've traveled all over the world and studied languages and sacrificed a lot in my life just for the remote possibility of being able to get what you guys take for granted.

If anyone is entitled it's not an ugly guy like me. I know I don't 'deserve' a hot girl and that the good looking dudes do deserve it. The whole point of my mission is to try to bypass that to whatever degree is possible. The whole point is to cheat. That may have been easier 20 years ago when there were fewer attractive guys doing what I was doing. Since then it seems you guys have caught on that cross cultural relationship can be better than with girls from your own country. I guess it was inevitable.

Quote:We all have a value in the market. If a pretty young thing can easily get a young guy who's good looking, why on earth would you she choose you? Would you choose you if you were a hot young girl and had a wide pick of men? I doubt it. Some hit the genetic lottery and some didn't. Deal with it. If you can't improve yourself to the point of getting the girls you want, then just find some other purpose in life...or lower your expectations accordingly.

I haven't read your posts. So I don't know what kind of poverty you are familiar with, but some of the girls here in the Philippines live in tin roofed shacks with cardboard or scrap wood walls in what appears to be a garbage dump for a yard with no electricity and no running water. It smells strongly of shit and and half rotting, half smouldering rubbish. Children die here from things like Dengue Fever and other diseases. If I were the one living in such conditions I'd be willing to compromise a bit on looks in order to escape from that. And to allow my children and my family to escape as well. That's the basic idea behind all of this. That somewhere in the world a pretty girl would be willing to exchange her natural beauty for a chance at a better life etc.

She may be able to fuck a good looking guy, but how many guys as good looking as she is would be willing to marry her with all the bullshit that entails? Of course I would choose to be with the best looking guy I could find, but I'd also want to be rescued from extreme poverty. I'd definitely be willing to compromise in that regard. As far as the whole genetic lottery I have 'dealt with it' for many years now. Came close to killing myself at many points in my life, but I've managed to survive, albeit without much sex and not happily.

If you think that being ugly makes another ugly person more desirable though you are mistaken. I don't find ugly girls any more appealing than you do. I'd much rather be alone than be with another ugly person. I'm willing to lower my expectations up to a point depending on what kind of personality she and her family has but she has to offer me enough value to make my sacrifices worth it as well.

Post: #21

There's almost no ugly men if they are in shape, dressed well and well groomed. We are lucky in that way.

The real question is, are you willing to put in the work to change your appearance?

If so, kinobody.com and masculine-style.com are great resources for you.

Post: #22

OP,

Sorry to hear that you feel the way you feel. But as long as you have breath in your body, you have a chance to make things better.

Henry Ford once said something like, "Whether you believe it or not you are right." If you continue to believe you have some flaw, then it will be real to you, whether or not it really exists. Also if you focus on your shortcomings, you deny yourself the opportunity to focus on your good qualities.

Honestly, you don't have it as bad as others. /thread-31856-...25608.html

This is my favorite meme lately. This kid wants to learn so bad, he camps out next to a McDonald's to study off the light from building. Granted it probably isn't great for his eyes. But because of his dedication he was rewarded with a scholarship.



EDIT: AWWWWWWWW! Fuck me, OP got banned while I was trying to make a thoughtful, serious post. Just wasted my one precious brain cell. Time to sleep.

Post: #23

This has to be a troll thread. The guy is into p4p in his 20s...stops then lives in many of the easier places to get laid in the world which also happen to have lots of prostitution available and goes into a 16 year dry spell before doing p4p again.

Strange troll I must say. The only way any of this makes sense is if the OP has some kind of deformity or is incredibly obese. But then why stop p4p for 16 years?

99% of guys can be atleast 6 / 10's if they work out and dress well. Probably 90% can be atleast 7 / 10. Work out hard, dress well voila.

Post: #24

Lol at all the troll accusations. I think hanging out on RVF has made people accustomed to awesomeness, and they've forgotten that there are many men out there who really are this hopeless.

He's not a troll he's just silly. Why would there be a country specially for ugly men? Ugliness isn't a valuable trait (unless you're in the feminism industry). All you can do if your face is all Picasso is offer other valuable traits, and move where those traits are most highly weighted.

Post: #25

Why is he banned? I get that there are trolls out there but I don't think this is one. Just a sad individual. There are people out there with servere mental problems that are not diagnosed and are likely not clinical. Chances are he really is ugly and doesn't have the mental capacities to overcome his limitation. It makes him weak, not a troll.