Post: #401

Varoufakis gave his first post- resignation interview last night to the Australian ABC. Excellent. Well worth listening to.

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/...?play=true

Post: #402

Interesting email came in today...

Cashtration - As Goes Greece, So Goes the World

The tedious drama that we’ve been observing in Greece in recent years is far from over. Greek debt is tied to EU debt. EU debt is tied to world debt. The coming debacle may unfold in this manner:

Greeks try to adjust to subsistence living, on what little the banks allow them daily.

They make no payments on their own debt, as even mere subsistence is difficult.

Companies do the same, as they’re having a hard time just paying wages and other overheads and can’t afford to pay interest on their loans.

Greek banks continue to provide depositors with an “allowance”, whilst their income source (interest on loans) dries up.
Banks become insolvent and cease paying “allowances” altogether. (And remember, this is the depositors’ own money that will be denied them.)
But, as stated above, Greece is not alone. Other EU countries that are on a similar precipice will be similarly affected. Each country, each “domino”, will fall more quickly than the one before it, as its people, having observed the pattern in other countries, lose faith in the system.

Meanwhile, governments will side with the banks, giving them free rein to do whatever they wish to save themselves, at the expense of depositors. Cashtration has begun in Greece but will spread to every country where banks have overstepped the mark and gone on a loan-provision spree in recent decades.

Further, a country such as Canada, which has not been so cavalier as the EU and US, is so inextricably linked with the US through banking and commerce, it will find itself equally impacted, even though they themselves tried to take a more responsible approach to loans.

In the midst of this, the populations of all affected countries will cry out for their governments to “Do something!”

Governments will respond by trying to cover their own responsibility in this debacle, as they have, for decades, been, not only the enablers of the bank debt spree, but have additionally run the governments themselves into debt beyond what can be repaid.

There will be no “solution”, as such. There will be an economic collapse and a Greater Depression.

At this point the reader may say to himself, “So, that’s it; we’re all toast. If this analysis is correct, there’s no hope for anybody.”

Not so. For anyone who has ever been a guest at a really great party, where the food and wine were seemingly endless and the mood infectiously jubilant, the outside world seemed not to exist. At a great party, the world outside appears unimportant.

Still, there are those who were either not invited, or chose not to go. They continued their lives soberly. In the aftermath of the party, they watch as the hung-over revellers leave. Although they may look upon the partygoers with disdain, they get on with their lives, relatively unaffected.

It’s the same with an “economic party”. Not everyone attends. Which is to say that there are presently countries where it is, and has always been, difficult to get a loan, either to buy a car or house, or to start a business.

Presently, these countries are looked upon as “backward”, as they are not charging ahead, as the more “prosperous” countries are. However, in the aftermath of The Great Economic Party, these countries will continue, relatively unaffected.

It’s left to the reader to determine to what degree his own country is involved in the party and to what degree his country will be impacted as the balloon pops. His assessment will suggest to what degree he will personally be “cashtrated”: forced by emergency conditions to be placed on an “allowance” by his bank and, eventually, to have that allowance end altogether as funds run out.

Sorry to say, it’s likely that the great majority who live in such jurisdictions will, as suggested above, be “toast”.

But there will be some who observe Greece and realize that the condition will spread and that there will be no solution by governments. They will take advantage of the brief time available and internationalise themselves as much as they are able.

It’s not the end, except for those who choose to remain at the party too long.

Editor’s Note: Unfortunately there’s little any individual can practically do to change the trajectory of this trend in motion. The best you can and should do is to stay informed so that you can protect yourself in the best way possible, and even profit from the situation. That’s what International Man is all about - making the most of your personal freedom and financial opportunity around the world. A great place to start is our Going Global 2015, click here for more details.

http://www.internationalman.com/cm/best-...nationally

Post: #403

Looks like Greece is going to have to sell off their Islands so they can have a few more years of austerity:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13...ture-and-m

This just goes to show how wrong guys like Phoenix are on fractional reserve banking - Greece gets poorer and poorer, they lose more and more, yet their debt is never resolved. And it's because there's more debt in the system than can possibly be paid back due to exponential interest.

Post: #404

This Croatian alternative band has been trolling everyone for years. Now they turn their sights on Angela Merkel, the unofficial dictator of Europe. Behold:



Yes, my dear friends, that is indeed a hollow bronze statue of Angela Merkel, complete with a stern face and short hair, crouching and ready to unload piles of shit upon us little European spendthrifts

You can watch the entire performance here, complete with people lining up for Angela to poo all over them (as she does over the entire Europe anyway):





Let3 (the band that came up with the idea) should hold a concert in Athens, they'd make a killing!

Post: #405

(07-14-2015 12:34 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Looks like Greece is going to have to sell off their Islands so they can have a few more years of austerity:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-13...ture-and-m

This just goes to show how wrong guys like Phoenix are on fractional reserve banking - Greece gets poorer and poorer, they lose more and more, yet their debt is never resolved. And it's because there's more debt in the system than can possibly be paid back due to exponential interest.

Outright default on the debt is actually not an inconceivable idea or necessarily bad in all instances -- if (and it's a big if) you are conscientious, learn a permanent lesson from the experience and never, never again put yourself into a position where you might have to do so again. The US, for example, has fairly reasonable terms for former bankrupts, at some level recognising that as an entrepreneur you're highly likely to fuck up and lose your ass at least a couple of times before you finally hit on that million dollar idea.

Governments, unfortunately, are never conscientious in the long run when it comes to other people's money. Which is why you only invest in places like Argentina or Zimbabwe if you have play money to spend and a set of brass balls bigger than the Wall Street bull's.

Post: #406

(07-13-2015 06:11 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 06:02 PM)poutsara Wrote:  The Parthenon marbles have been sitting in the British Museum for about two centuries. Taken right before Greece became independent. Some of the most important works of art of antiquity, and arguably, all of Western Civilization.

How much is a 200 year lease worth? Perhaps 100 billion Euros - that should cover it.

We can probably arrange for them to be transferred straight to Germany for you, with all the rest of your stuff.

Post: #407

(07-13-2015 06:11 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 06:02 PM)poutsara Wrote:  The Parthenon marbles have been sitting in the British Museum for about two centuries. Taken right before Greece became independent. Some of the most important works of art of antiquity, and arguably, all of Western Civilization.

How much is a 200 year lease worth? Perhaps 100 billion Euros - that should cover it.

We can probably arrange for them to be transferred straight to Germany for you, with all the rest of your stuff.

I'll phone the Chancellor.

Oh yes, I'm so privileged you literally can't even.
Interested in joining the FFL? I tried (and failed).

Post: #408

(07-13-2015 05:46 AM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 05:33 AM)dreambig Wrote:  Yet another bailout it is then.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33503955

Jesus they are making one huge mess of this and humiliating Greece in the process.

I was really hopeful that Greece were finally going to be put out of their misery.

See you in 2-3 years when the Greeks come back for even more.

These eurocrats are delaying the inevitable which is the total collapse of the Euro.

They want to create the United States of Europe and they will cling to that goal until the bitter end.

What will the bitter end look like? Honestly, I thought we were looking at the bitter end now, but they got another round of bailouts.

Post: #409

(07-14-2015 02:28 AM)Medic42 Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 06:11 PM)H1N1 Wrote:  

(07-13-2015 06:02 PM)poutsara Wrote:  The Parthenon marbles have been sitting in the British Museum for about two centuries. Taken right before Greece became independent. Some of the most important works of art of antiquity, and arguably, all of Western Civilization.

How much is a 200 year lease worth? Perhaps 100 billion Euros - that should cover it.

We can probably arrange for them to be transferred straight to Germany for you, with all the rest of your stuff.

Do we have a banking/currency thread? I'd be interested in learning more on this subject?

Post: #410

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Post: #411

(07-14-2015 02:31 AM)eradicator Wrote:  What will the bitter end look like? Honestly, I thought we were looking at the bitter end now, but they got another round of bailouts.

The bitter end will now be a lot worse, simply because a country default on its foreign debts is a much smaller scandal than a country seizing and nationalizing its land, industries and finances. The longer this farce continues and the more EU demands actually get carried out, the greater the potential scandal when everything implodes.

In the light of that outcome, I wouldn't be surprised if Merkel & C.O. are simply buying time. If Greece leaves the Eurozone in 3 years but by that time it has already irreversibly ceded control of its ports, islands, water, power generation, oil reserves and God knows what else, then the Eurozone wins anyway.

Post: #412

Greece should have left the Euro seven years ago let the bad banks go, jailed the bankers and gone back to the Drachma. They would be doing well like Iceland is had they done so.

Post: #413

There are countless examples of sovereign default throughout history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_...gn_default

Failure has always been a healthy part of the capitalist system.

What is it about the 21st century that is so different? We no longer tolerate failure.

We bail out banks because they are too big to fail. Now we need to bail out entire countries out too.

All of this accumulated debt - left to the generations ahead. This won't end well.

Post: #414

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Post: #415

It's looking increasingly likely that Tsipras will be able to pass these measures through the Greek Parliament, but only through support by the opposition as Syriza begins to implode. The wisdom now is that he will attempt to form a national unity government to implement the measures, followed by snap elections. Where that ends up is anyone's guess.

Regardless, the project of European unity has been seriously, perhaps fatally compromised. Voters in Spain, Portugal, and Italy are going to look at this and see what the reality of European integration means - the ultimate surrender of their national and fiscal sovereignty to Berlin.

And it's not like this will actually put Greece on the road to sustainability and growth - quite the opposite. Instead, Greece's debt/GDP ratio may skyrocket to over 300% by 2025. All these bailouts flew in the face of any basis in economic theory - they were only about keeping the political goals of the Euro-progressivist pet projects (the EU and the euro) alive, even at the sake of impoverishing whole countries for generations.

That's all this is - nothing more than another game of 'extend-and-pretend.'

Post: #416

(07-14-2015 11:03 AM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:37 AM)dreambig Wrote:  ...

All of this accumulated debt - left to the generations ahead. This won't end well.

How will it end? Would be great if there was a topic in Deep Forum talking about this. I read the "Modern Economics is just one big scam" thread by Zelcorpion and got a boner.

All I can get from mainstream sources is that "there won't be any contagion/domino effect because of Greece, we've got it covered, everything's fine", even though it's probably the opposite (especially politically). Then, on top of that, US is probably a house of cards and China is a big bubble. Add automation and other things into that mix and I have no idea what's going to happen and when.

It's true - money systems based on usury in the current form must end in default, restructuring or war of some kind with a new currency being issued. China is probably in a better position than most in the world, since it has accumulated the world's manufacturing capacity - incl. the one from the US. Also it is gaining as a military power, which adds financial stability to their new hard currency. The Yuan is set to take over from dollar or maybe a mixture of several currencies. That may still be 20 years off.

Greece is set to be sold off piece by piece & the people will get constant austerity. They can try and elect the new rascals - even Golden Dawn when in power will suddenly behave like the rest. Those guys can be bought or threatened behind the scenes. Do you think that they would remain nationalist when 100 mio. $ is dangled in front of their faces? I don't think so.

Since the people don't understand what needs to be done, then they will meander their way through until the EU gets what it really wants - a joint EU-wide central bank and a centralized finance ministry that decides from Brussels on how to manage Greek finances. Maybe then will they let the Greek people off the hook so it seems at first as if this is even better than being independent.

We will see how they manage it. Personally I am relaxed about it. Hyperinflation won't come, fast global collapse won't happen and a zombie-apocalypse economic disaster won't manifest so fast.

It might be more something like this as one NGO put it so well for us to see:





It's austerity and Agenda 21 in one.

Post: #417

Any country resisting the fiat dollar system will know the same fate as Libya and Irak.

Post: #418

IMF fires a cannonball into Greek bailout

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live...ne-uk-live

Quote:We’ve now got hold of the new IMF report into Greece’s debt sustainability.

And a quick perusal shows that the Fund has comprehensively obliterated the notion that this third Greek bailout will work, as it stands.

The introduction to the report says enough, really:

Greece’s public debt has become highly unsustainable. This is due to the easing of policies during the last year, with the recent deterioration in the domestic macroeconomic and financial environment because of the closure of the banking system adding significantly to the adverse dynamics.

The financing need through end-2018 is now estimated at €85bn and debt is expected to peak at close to 200 percent of GDP in the next two years, provided that there is an early agreement on a program. Greece’s debt can now only be made sustainable through debt relief measures that go far beyond what Europe has been willing to consider so far.

The IMF’s fundamental conclusion is that Greece will simply not be able to borrow at affordable rates again, until its debt burden is lower.

The situation was already bad - but recent developments make it much, much worse.

The events of the past two weeks—the closure of banks and imposition of capital controls—are extracting a heavy toll on the banking system and the economy, leading to a further significant deterioration in debt sustainability relative to what was projected in our recently published DSA.

Today’s report is light on projections, but the ones included are stark enough. The stand-out fact: Greek debt is on track to peak at close to 200% of GDP in the next two years. Only Japan, after two lost decades, comes close to that ratio.

Perhaps this is why the US government, led by Treasury secretary Jack Lew, has been so vocal about the need for debt sustainability to be addressed?

The IMF is also amusingly sniffy about the targets Greece is being set. For example:

Medium-term primary surplus target: Greece is expected to maintain primary surpluses for the next several decades of 3.5 percent of GDP. Few countries have managed to do so. The reversal of key public sector reforms already in place— notably pension and civil service reforms—without yet any specification of alternative reforms raises concerns about Greece’s ability to reach this target

But it’s conclusion is clear - if Europe wants this bailout to work, it must either grant Greece three decades grace before repaying its debts, or cut the face value of its borrowings, deeply....

More at:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015...ebt-relief

Post: #419

I do absolutely despise Merkel.
Former communist destroying the Continent.

This too shall pass I hope.

Post: #420

(07-14-2015 10:16 PM)Dan Woolf Wrote:  IMF fires a cannonball into Greek bailout

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live...ne-uk-live

Quote:But it’s conclusion is clear - if Europe wants this bailout to work, it must either grant Greece three decades grace before repaying its debts, or cut the face value of its borrowings, deeply....

More at:
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015...ebt-relief

There would be a simple way to stop this madness. Simply cease to demand interest rates on Greek debt - just get the principal payments and the interest rates that have accumulated up until now. That way Greece could start repaying it's debts this year already and within some 30-50 years it could have repaid everything.



But of course that would create a very dangerous precedent for the global banking mafia.

Instead it's business as usual:



Investigator and economist Gregg Palast has a good take on it as well:

Quote:GREECE’D: We Voted ‘No’ to slavery,
but ‘Yes’ to our chains

Quote:Resistance to nowhere
But it’s a resistance whose leaders are leading them nowhere.
For decades, Greeks have suffered governments that are both corrupt and dishonest. The election of SYRIZA changed all that: the government is now merely dishonest.

Our new SYRIZA Prime Minister, Alexis Tsipras, correctly called the austerity plan “blackmail.” However, before Sunday’s vote, Tsipras told the nation a big fat fib. He said we could vote down the European Bank’s plan but keep the European Bank’s coin, the euro. How? Tsipras won’t say; it’s part of a policy ploy his outgoing finance minister Yanis Varoufakis calls “creative ambiguity.” To translate: Creative ambiguity is Greek for “bullshit.”

Sorry, Alexis, if you want to use the Reich’s coin you have to accept the Reichsdiktat.

Not a coin, a virus
Tsipras’ claim that Greece can keep the euro while rejecting austerity is crazy-talk. The fact is that German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the Cruella De Vil of the Eurozone, will ignore the cries of the bleeding Greeks and demand we swallow austerity--or lose the euro.

But, so what if we lose the euro? The best thing that can happen to Greece, and should have happened long, long ago, is that Greece flee the Eurozone.

That’s because it is the euro itself that is the virus responsible for Greece’s economic ills.

Indeed, the sadistic commitment to “austerity” was minted into the coin’s very metal. We’re not guessing. One of us (Palast, an economist by training) has had long talks with the acknowledged “father” of the euro, Professor Robert Mundell. It’s important to mention the other little bastard spawned by the late Prof. Mundell: “supply-side” economics, otherwise known as “Reaganomics,” “Thatcherism” – or, simply “voodoo” economics.

The imposition of the euro had one true goal: To end the European welfare state.

For Mundell and the politicians who seized on his currency concept, the euro itself would be the vector infecting the European body politic with supply-side Reaganomics. Mundell saw a euro’d Europe as free of trade unions and government regulations; a Europe in which the votes of parliaments were meaningless. Each Eurozone nation, unable to control neither the value of its own currency, nor its own budget, nor its own fiscal policy, could only compete for business by slashing regulations and taxes. Mundell said, "[The euro] puts monetary policy out of the reach of politicians… Without fiscal policy, the only way nations can keep jobs is by the competitive reduction of rules on business."

Here’s how it works. To join the Eurozone, nations must agree to keep their deficits to no more than 3% of GDP and total debt to no more than 60% of GDP. In a recession, that’s plain insane. By contrast, President Obama pulled the USA out of recession by increasing deficit spending to a staggering 9.8% of GDP, and he raised the nation’s debt to 101% from a pre-recession 62%. Republicans screamed, but it worked. The US has lower unemployment than any Eurozone nation.

As Obama scolded the European tormentors of Greece: “You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression.” Cutting spending power only leads to less spending which leads to further cuts in spending power – a death spiral we see today in the Eurozone from Greece to Italy to Spain—but not in Germany.

“Not in Germany.” There’s the rub. Normally, a nation such as Greece can quickly recover from debt-induced recession by devaluing its currency. Greece would become a dirt cheap tourist destination once more and its lower-cost exports would zoom, instantly increasing competitiveness. And that’s what Germany can’t allow. Germany lured other European nations into the euro in order to keep them from undercutting Germany’s prices in export markets.

Restricted by the 3% deficit rule, the only recourse left for Eurozone debtors: pay the piper with “austerity” measures.

Tsipras in Wonderland
So therein lies the lie. Tsipras tells his fellow Greeks that we can live in a Looking Glass world, where we can have our euro and eat it too; that we can stay handcuffed to the euro but run free without austerity.

The nonsense continues: Following the announcement of the official results of the referendum on Sunday night, Tsipras tweeted that the Greek electorate voted for a "Europe of solidarity and democracy," while the now-resigned finance minister Varoufakis tweeted that "Greece's place in the Eurozone is non-negotiable," claiming that he would not allow the "only alternative," the old drachma trading alongside the euro.

SYRIZA's euro-fetish was already evident in its pre-referendum proposals to the IMF and European Bank, a 47-page document which included 8 billion euros in new austerity measures plus a new round of sell-offs of state industries, the maintenance of a primary surplus of 1% this year which would increase in the coming years, the increase of the retirement age to 67, and making permanent the previously "temporary" taxes upon an already overtaxed populace. In Tsipras’ own proposal, there was no word of a debt write-down or stoppage of payments, despite the fact that the government's own Debt Audit Commission announced on June 17 that the bulk of Greece's debt is illegal, “odious,” and should not be paid.

Instead, Tsipras has come out in support of the IMF's proposal for a mere 30% "debt haircut" and a 20-year grace period, effectively sweeping the problem under the rug. Greece is currently running a deficit, meaning that in order for the 1% surplus to be achieved, SYRIZA must cut, cut, cut. Exactly as Mundell and the supply-siders intended.

Death by “Reform”
Like Obama, Tsipras knows that cutting pensions, privatizing and closing industries, slashing wages – in other words, “austerity” -- or, to use the latest jargon, “reform” – is not just cruel, it’s plain stupid: it can only push a nation in recession into depression.

That’s not just theory. The Troika (the European Central Bank, IMF and European Commission) first imposed their vicious austerity measures on Greece in 2010. Greeks watched their annual salaries plummet to half of a German’s paycheck. Greece's supposedly generous pensions have been cut eight times during the crisis, while two-thirds of pensioners live below the poverty line. Everything from Greece's airports to harbors, the national lottery to prime publicly-owned real estate was sold off, while schools and hospitals were shuttered.

And, for the first time since World War II, widespread starvation had returned. 500,000 children in Greece are said to be malnourished. Students fainting from hunger in frigid schools which cannot afford heating oil is now a common phenomenon.

This cruel “belt tightening,” the Troika promised, would restore Greece’s economy by 2012 (and then 2013, 2014, and 2015). In reality, unemployment went from a terrible 12.5% in 2010 to a horrendous 25.6% today.

Now, the Troika demands more of the same, a continuation of this disastrous policy.

Crashing into Africa?
Meanwhile, following the referendum result which made him a hero, finance minister Varoufakis resigned. Ironically, while Varoufakis rubbed German officials the wrong way with his unorthodox style, he, too, maintained the pro-euro myth. Previous austerity measures continued under his watch. To please the mad austerity masters, he said he would "squeeze blood from a stone" to repay the IMF—which he did in May, when all remaining funds in the Greek Treasury were rounded up by presidential decree to make that month's IMF loan payment. Varoufakis was so wedded to the euro that he claimed that Greece would be unable to print its old currency, the drachma, because we destroyed our currency printing presses when we joined the euro. In fact, the government's banknote printing facility in Athens still operates, printing the 10-euro note.

Meanwhile, our future flees. A quarter million university graduates have abandoned our nation. They have no choice: unemployment for those under 25 has hit 48.6%.

I know that many Greeks, Cypriots, Italians and Portuguese all express a visceral fear of leaving the euro. Depending on which polls one chooses to believe, anywhere from a near-majority to an overwhelming majority of Greeks wish to remain in the euro at all costs. From the hysterical statements I heard from some Greeks that, “We cannot leave Europe!”, you’d think that dropping the euro will cause Greece to break off at the Albanian border and crash into Africa.

It would be refreshing to hear political leaders say the honest economic truth: “Workers of Europe unite! You have nothing to lose but the euro—and your chains.”

***

Gregg Palast is a funny guy who intimately knows the who's who of international finance - despite his books, they still love to talk to him. He mentioned that while talking to the Forbes heir, Forbes mentioned that you could make a killing in Greece, since the Greek government is selling companies, real estate and other public assets for pennies on the dollar. He was quite enthusiastic about it - you only needed some pocket change in the vicinity of 100 mio. $ + to profit from any of those fire sales.

My take is that even the 50 bio. $ in Greek assets that are getting packaged and then later sold off - those assets could be worth 200 bio. $ + under normal market conditions. But of course currently it's going to be listed only at 50 bio. $, which will be great business for the banks. Even if they have to take a debt cut in the future, those banks will grab those under-priced assets and make a killing.

Post: #421

Sorry, Zel, but all it takes is one paragraph out of Palast's polemic to dismiss it as diatribe:

Quote:Here’s how it works. To join the Eurozone, nations must agree to keep their deficits to no more than 3% of GDP and total debt to no more than 60% of GDP. In a recession, that’s plain insane. By contrast, President Obama pulled the USA out of recession by increasing deficit spending to a staggering 9.8% of GDP, and he raised the nation’s debt to 101% from a pre-recession 62%. Republicans screamed, but it worked. The US has lower unemployment than any Eurozone nation.

(1) The US in general has always had lower unemployment than the Eurozone at large - mainly because it is nowhere near as socialist as the Eurozone's biggest offenders, and because it doesn't kill its private industries in favour of overblown welfare schemes. Exhibit A, Sweden, the Socialist Paradise with a Rolls Royce education system that morons occasionally say the US should emulate, has a much higher youth unemployment rate than the US and a massively higher suicide rate. In terms of its adult unemployment rate, it's on par with the US, so whatever the Eurozone is doing, they're not doing better on unemployment.

(2) Is this guy actually saying that a debt-to-GDP ratio of 101% for the nation with the world's reserve currency is a good thing?
For real? As something to be emulated?
That number, 101%, is mathematical confirmation of a theoretical - and eventually the practical - reality than literally every dollar ripped off every man, woman, and child in the US could not pay off its debts if called in now. Palast's assertion is like saying opening a vein is great because you can use the blood you're using now to transplant into your own body while leaving the medical bill for the procedure to your infant kids. There are two words he should have added to the end of the part I've quoted: "...right now." Because government spending is always artificial economic activity, and in the US's case it's just pouring petrol into a fundamentally dead engine.

Deficit spending is classic half-Keynes economics. Keynes advocated deficit spending in hard times, but only if you raise tax rates in good times to pay for it. Politicians would rather kill themselves than raise tax rates (and indeed doing so is suicide electorally), which is why they'll do one but not the other.

That said, the EU isn't doing itself any favours by keeping Greece in the zone. Just as with Obama's deficit spending, raising the US's debt to World War 2 levels with no world war to fight, keeping Greece around is just making the deferred, catastrophic, and inevitable correction longer, deeper, and more painful. The EU keeping Greece in is simply choosing to cut its own throat with a jagged knife 10 years down the line rather than with a sharp, thin one right now.

The question being, why do so many people want to stay in the Euro and not return to the drachma? The answer has to be: because they know exactly what will happen if the drachma returns. The only reason Greece hasn't been hyperinflating its currency before now is because it doesn't have control of its printing presses. The drachma would last about five seconds before becoming hyperinflated by the Greek parliament, and there will be suffering as bad if not worse than under the Euro.

I'm pretty sad to think outright default is the only practical way out for Greece now, but that's the way it is. It will utterly fuck their nation's creditworthiness a la Zimbabwe or Argentina, but if their politicians have sufficient will and their people have sufficient will to change their mindset, they can climb back out of it eventually - certainly a lot faster than if they restored the drachma or stayed under the the Euro.

Post: #422

Well - I did not say that I agree with everything Palast said. He had a good take on Greece, but his views are woefully inadequate on other things. But he does have a good track record of sniffing out scams and some billionaire hucksters.

But of course Palast is highly left-leaning and Obama's deficit spending while improving the economic situation only strengthened the plutocracy.

Gregg Palast despite all the alternative viewpoints is still mainstream to a degree. He gets invited often to big media outlets, while really dangerous money reformers are not allowed to come even close to TV cameras.

Post: #423

Thumbs up; that particular paragraph just jumped out at me - I wasn't attributing it to you.

Post: #424

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Post: #425

Alternatively, maybe all the EU countries should default on their debts to each other. Just do it all at once, and start again. Have a new currency, comprised of the Franc, the Rouble, the Drachma, the Lira, and Pound Sterling. They could call it the Farking Dracula.