(07-14-2017 07:58 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 01:28 PM)Transsimian Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 12:39 PM)DamienCasanova Wrote:  Did Trump just red-pill game the globalist shill Macron to the right-side?

DJT managed to game Bill Clinton into believing DJT was just an idiot patsy ripe for becoming a Pied Piper candidate, never underestimate Trump's game.

Courtesy of 4chan

Hilarious once again, I hope these /pol/lacks get jobs in media, there's real creativity there, should get the chance with a budget.

Wow

Trump kissed skeletor on the cheek.

Just imagine what else he'd do for us.

Trump's the kind of guy to jump on a grenade to save your life.

(07-14-2017 06:41 PM)Latinopan Wrote:  

This gif is soothing.

Blood pressure drops 10 after 10 seconds of viewing.

(07-14-2017 07:24 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  Really, zero immigration, nothing, nada? That would make the US the first country in history to do so.

Good. Add it to the list of a million other good things the US was the first country to do. That's the kind of progressive I want to be.

Teutatis Wrote:Long screed with no citations and a bunch of emotional Not All Immigrants Are Like That!

It's not even worth responding to your post point by point. No, unemployment is not "too low", that's complete nonsense. You clearly have no idea how the government calculates unemployment. You clearly have no idea how the visa programs work or the way companies behave to "insource" cheaper workers from other countries to displace American workers. And you clearly don't realize that even if unemployment wasn't awful, having millions of H-visas hanging around depresses wages and stifles innovation, which negatively affects all the Americans around them.

If you do know those things--and it would be hard to miss all the stories about them--you're pretending it isn't true. Or perhaps you're falling prey to confirmation bias. I can't say for sure which it is, but the picture you paint of the American economy is obvious nonsense to anyone who has been paying attention for the past 10 years.

You being here means there's a natural born American who either doesn't have a job, or has a shitty job because he got pushed out. End of story. I don't give a shit if you don't like to hear it. Maybe if you came here as a child it's not your fault, but given your response I kind of doubt that's the case.

I've never advocated kicking out naturalized citizens, for the record. What's done is done.

Since you accused me of being dishonest in discussing why I don't want immigrants here, please stop for a moment to calm your overwrought emotions and realize that the discussion started because of a question about worker availability. So of course I was talking about that aspect only.

But yeah, you're right, I don't want people from other cultures coming here in more than tiny, trace numbers. Especially people from low-trust, high-corruption societies, which is where we import people from!



I've written about that extensively before in other threads and probably in this one too; I have never hidden my thoughts on the matter. I even already had that image made and sitting in my imgur account from the last time I talked about this. For fuck's sake, Canada is #14 and it's the first country on the list that has an even kind-of similar culture! 95% of the list is countries with cultures that have jack shit in common with mine.

It's way too late to preserve American culture by nixing immigration, though, because "American culture" is split along at least half a dozen lines now. I just want to keep the America the state from failing too soon and too suddenly. Continuing to import boatloads of immigrants from third world countries and granting 500,000+ work visas every year goes directly against that goal.

Edited: Broke my role about getting involved in dumb political discussions.
Just deleting this.

(07-14-2017 11:11 PM)weambulance Wrote:  No, unemployment is not "too low", that's complete nonsense. You clearly have no idea how the government calculates unemployment.

I just want to make sure, you're saying that the employment numbers are all lies, the US is actually facing job scarcity, not full employment, and that there are millions of Americans who can't find jobs, is that it?

WHY SO RACIST ABOUT IMPORTING AUSSIES?

(07-14-2017 11:48 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 11:11 PM)weambulance Wrote:  No, unemployment is not "too low", that's complete nonsense. You clearly have no idea how the government calculates unemployment.

I just want to make sure, you're saying that the employment numbers are all lies, the US is actually facing job scarcity, not full employment, and that there are millions of Americans who can't find jobs, is that it?

Yes, that's it exactly. The percentage of working age people who are actually employed is way down from 10 years ago. Many of those employed have part time jobs, or have a low paying job like Walmart when they used to have a good factory job.

We are nowhere near full employment. There are millions of Americans who can't find good jobs.

You must know many people like this. If your social class and family consist of 100% successful people, you must have noticed all the middle aged men working in Starbucks or in convenience stores. Look around. There are a lot of people struggling.

Look up the median family income, and try to figure out how you'd support a family with children on that.

(07-14-2017 11:48 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(07-14-2017 11:11 PM)weambulance Wrote:  No, unemployment is not "too low", that's complete nonsense. You clearly have no idea how the government calculates unemployment.

I just want to make sure, you're saying that the employment numbers are all lies, the US is actually facing job scarcity, not full employment, and that there are millions of Americans who can't find jobs, is that it?

Can you do math? Even if you take the official U3 unemployment rate, there are "millions of Americans who can't find jobs". There are ~200 million Americans of working age. What is 4.7% of 200 million?

U3 unemployment does not consider underemployed workers. Underemployment is a huge problem in this country.

And U3 unemployment also does not consider workers who have given up looking for work after a long period of unemployment. Those are people who would take jobs if they could find them and could get to them. The longer you're unemployed, the harder it is to find work, not just because employment gaps look shitty but because you start running out of money and your options slowly wink out over time.

There is no mystery in any of that. It's well known and admitted.

Now what's the U6 metric? Right now, it's something like 9.5%. Here's the math thing again: what's 9.5% of 200 million?

Please proceed with your brilliant proof explaining why it's beneficial for the US to import workers right now instead of companies:

1. Raising wages
2. Training people
3. Adapting otherwise if the work they need done is not economical at minimum wage
4. All of the above

Because from where I'm sitting, it sounds like those imported workers are good for the companies--many of which are multinationals that give no shits about America except for as a consumer base--but not good for American citizens.

(07-14-2017 11:11 PM)weambulance Wrote:  

I'm good, I come from one the countries in the bottom of that list, I certainly won't be subverting or contributing to the US's cultural demise.

(07-15-2017 12:07 AM)weambulance Wrote:  Please proceed with your brilliant proof explaining why it's beneficial for the US to import workers right now instead of companies:

I can't do math, I never learned it in my third world country so thank you for showing me how, and I have no brilliant proof to offer you, like I said if you don't want any foreigners in your country that's a legitimate discussion worth having, just don't say that legal immigrants are leeching off of the system because most are not.

(07-14-2017 07:24 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  I agree that the US should get rid of people who take advantage of the system and illegals and should look out for its own citizens first but unlike what you are saying the majority of legal immigrants are NOT taking anything away from Americans and do in fact contribute more to society then what they take away. This idea that all immigrants are leeches is idiotic and it has no base in reality. As a percentage of the population and absolute numbers there are a lot more American citizens leeching off of the system then immigrants. I'd rather you and the people that like your comments say you want your doors closed because you simply don't like immigrants, which I can actually respect and acknowledge that you have a point, then bullshit excuses about stolen jobs and parasitism, which you use just to give yourself some kind of moral superiority.

If I recall correctly, Ann Coulter said that about 50% of LEGAL immigrants are on welfare in Addios America.

Quote:I know some people don't want to believe this but the US is experiencing full employment right now, so much so that some people are actually complaining that in the US the unemployment rate is actually too low, and yes, it's hard to find workers for some sectors because there simply aren't enough people.

This makes no sense.

I recently talked to a woman in about her 40's or 50's. She told me that in the 1980's you could probably get a job in a week or, at the latest, by a month.

Now, you will be lucky to find a job in a month.

Quote:You can have the discussion about if it's worth it to bring in more people to keep growing the economy or if you'd rather just use Americans and not let anyone in because you want to preserve your culture, which is a legitimate discussion worth having, but stop with the "all immigrants are basically stealing from us" crap. I work in this country, I pay all my taxes, I pay for your old people to have their fucking medicare and medicaid, I consume goods and services, spend a ton of money and add to the economy, I never ever have taken a cent in government welfare nor would I ever, I've became sick and spent a ton of money in your screwed up health system, even though I already spend a ton in taxes, I obey the laws of the land and I admire the American ideals of liberty, freedom and individuality and will fight for them. I, just like most legal immigrants, contribute more to this country then half of your fellow compatriots that are on the government's dole, which is paid in part with my money, gained from my effort, so if you don't want me here because you simply don't like me then just tell me that straight, because I can accept that instead of calling me a parasite, which is complete bulshit.

Cool story bro.

But like I said many LEGAL immigrants are on welfare. Many of them also probably commit crimes and, by definition, illegal immigrants are criminals.

Many of the so called Americans on welfare are probably the children of LEGAL and ILLEGAL Americans. So, I doubt your claim that immigrants and their "American" children contribute more than a real American. I don't deny that there are piece of shit black and white Americans on welfare. However, I can guarantee you that they cost less because they speak English and do not need any language services.

(07-15-2017 12:19 AM)quino_16 Wrote:  If I recall correctly, Ann Coulter said that about 50% of LEGAL immigrants are on welfare in Addios America.

Fuck, that's brutal, why would the state allow something like that?

Quote:But like I said many LEGAL immigrants are on welfare. Many of them also probably commit crimes and, by definition, illegal immigrants are criminals.

Many of the so called Americans on welfare are probably the children of LEGAL and ILLEGAL Americans. So, I doubt your claim that immigrants and their "American" children contribute more than a real American. I don't deny that there are piece of shit black and white Americans on welfare. However, I can guarantee you that they cost less because they speak English and do not need any language services.

Why not only allow in people that will not be a burden? I think we're putting third world, low skilled, no language proficiency immigration and first world, english speaking immigration all in the same plate.

(07-15-2017 12:15 AM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(07-15-2017 12:07 AM)weambulance Wrote:  Please proceed with your brilliant proof explaining why it's beneficial for the US to import workers right now instead of companies:

I can't do math, I never learned it in my third world country so thank you for showing me how, and I have no brilliant proof to offer you, like I said if you don't want any foreigners in your country that's a legitimate discussion worth having, just don't say that legal immigrants are leeching off of the system because most are not.

So, now you're changing your story? You went off half-cocked in your first rant without even bothering to understand what I was talking about, or stopping to think about whether what I was saying is true? You just assumed I was an idiot talking out his ass, I suppose, and that the big businesses must be telling the truth because their truth benefits you by giving you a guilt-free job.

You took a job an American should have. End of story. Just because you're not on welfare doesn't mean you're a net benefit to my people. You obviously only care about you and your people, which is natural. You don't give a shit about Americans, because you aren't one.

Quote:Why not only allow in people that will not be a burden?

You're not a burden because you turned an American into a burden; instead, you're a burden-by-proxy. So no, how about we don't do that. Especially since, as you clearly demonstrate, immigrants generally don't give a shit about Americans. Maybe their kids and probably their grandkids will, but first generation? Nope, they only care about their tribe, which is never "American".

Quote:

Quote:quino_16 Wrote:
If I recall correctly, Ann Coulter said that about 50% of LEGAL immigrants are on welfare in Addios America.

Fuck, that's brutal, why would the state allow something like that?

Yep, it's a real mystery. Probably has something to do with immigrants voting overwhelmingly democrat, and democrats trying to permanently gain power by importing more and more third worlders who naturally gravitate to the welfare and corruption train.

Oh look, we stumbled on yet another reason why I don't want any immigration.

While we're at it, the retarded 14th Amendment interpretation regarding anchor babies is a big reason too. Or did you, in your apparent ignorance of American law, not know that any child born on American soil is automatically considered a citizen? Think about why exactly that policy might be a Big Fucking Problem for this country.

The whole argument for immigration rests on the premise that "you guys got enuff to share around".

If you switched the nations and had a massive stream of Americans flooding into sub-saharan Africa edging out locals for what passed as middle class jobs there then nobody but nobody would be game to argue that the American immigrants were beneficial on the grounds that they weren't on welfare while a similar number of native Africans magically ended up on the street.

And nobody would argue that Africa owed those Americans the opportunity to gut the African job market out of some cosmik obligation to provide a shot at a better life for any foreigners that wanted to hop a border or get on plane.

But it really seems like the fundamental law of supply and demand are the first things to go out the window when you're talking to a migrant (or corporatist) about jobs and immigration. Both will say "we have a skills gap in field x so we should import people or commerce will suffer". Yet someone who doesn't stand to profit will say "obviously field x doesn't pay enough so if service y is still viable then pay more and your skills shortage will be gone".

But, no. Corporatists, left wing politicians and anti-patriots see more value in shipping in some guy that will work for peanuts, sleep in a cupboard draw, vote corruptocrap, eat shit, drink mud and never complain because it's still ten times better than it was in his home country (but edging back in that direction as we speak).

delete

Delete.

@Leonard

Whilst there are certainly many things in America that hobbles entrepreneurs. And prevents job creation. The preference for foreigners that are effectively slaves of some sort is definitely to blame

[Delete]

(Today 12:06 AM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  

(Yesterday 11:48 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

(Yesterday 11:11 PM)weambulance Wrote:  No, unemployment is not "too low", that's complete nonsense. You clearly have no idea how the government calculates unemployment.

I just want to make sure, you're saying that the employment numbers are all lies, the US is actually facing job scarcity, not full employment, and that there are millions of Americans who can't find jobs, is that it?

Yes, that's it exactly. The percentage of working age people who are actually employed is way down from 10 years ago. Many of those employed have part time jobs, or have a low paying job like Walmart when they used to have a good factory job.

We are nowhere near full employment. There are millions of Americans who can't find good jobs.

You must know many people like this. If your social class and family consist of 100% successful people, you must have noticed all the middle aged men working in Starbucks or in convenience stores. Look around. There are a lot of people struggling.

Look up the median family income, and try to figure out how you'd support a family with children on that.

I don't know how you missed it, but already for some time (since the crash of 2008 at the very least), the BLS employment numbers have been roundly criticized for their deceptive nature- the ways in which the reported statistics ignore crucial factors such as discouraged workers (i.e. people who lose their jobs in a certain field giving up on searching for a job in their specialized field), as well as the overall declining quality of the jobs being created in the US economy.

zerohedge Wrote:America has enjoyed an economic recovery since June of 2009, which must be one of the longest recoveries in history despite the absence of growth in median real family incomes, despite the growth in real retail sales, despite the falling labor force participation rate, despite the lack of high value-added, high productivity, high wage jobs.

Quote:Where are these reported jobs? They are where they always are in lowly paid domestic services. Health care and social assistance, about half of which is “ambulatory health care services,” provided 59,000 jobs. Leisure and hospitality provided 36,000 jobs of which 29,300 consist of waitresses and bartenders. Local government rose by 35,000. Manufacturing, once the backbone of the US economy, provided a measly 1,000 jobs.

Zerohedge, July 2017

Point being: if you break down the Bureau of Labor statistics concerning changes in the workforce, the general trend is the decline or stagnation in productive, value-creating jobs that were historically the backbone of the middle class, reflected in an equally stagnant purchasing power for the average american versus a generally rising cost of living.

I always like the classic Waiter/Bartender vs. Manufacturing jobs chart that zerohedge uses to characterize this shift in the US economy:



Goes to show: many of the safe, secure jobs of the past are stagnant and unlikely to recover in the long-term, as people shift to lower-quality jobs such as service that will allow their heavily-indebted asses to barely scrape by.

This is why Weambulance's points are so important: if you want to preserve the backbone of the American economy- the middle class, it's more important than ever to ensure that Americans have first-priority access to the increasingly declining pool of high quality jobs.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.cnbc.com/...-call.html

TLDR version: Jamie Dimon blows at DCs stupid shit and when asked if he's frustrates with Trump tells the reporter "No,I'm frustrated with you."


Don't underestimate the importance of this moment. It's a major shift in the wind if NYC bank execs are now so pissed off with DC that they prefer Trump to business as usual. These guys have some fairly enormous clout in D.C. so we very well see some shifts politically that will never be traceable to him by the general public.

It's also important that even some Wall Street types are starting to realize things need to change.

(07-15-2017 12:53 AM)weambulance Wrote:  So, now you're changing your story? You went off half-cocked in your first rant without even bothering to understand what I was talking about, or stopping to think about whether what I was saying is true? You just assumed I was an idiot talking out his ass, I suppose, and that the big businesses must be telling the truth because their truth benefits you by giving you a guilt-free job.

You took a job an American should have. End of story. Just because you're not on welfare doesn't mean you're a net benefit to my people. You obviously only care about you and your people, which is natural. You don't give a shit about Americans, because you aren't one.

Quote:Why not only allow in people that will not be a burden?

You're not a burden because you turned an American into a burden; instead, you're a burden-by-proxy. So no, how about we don't do that. Especially since, as you clearly demonstrate, immigrants generally don't give a shit about Americans. Maybe their kids and probably their grandkids will, but first generation? Nope, they only care about their tribe, which is never "American".

How am I changing my story when I clearly stated that America should look out for its own first and should get rid of anyone leeching off of the state?

And I disagree completely that because I'm here it means an American couldn't find a job and therefore became a burden to the state, you seem to look at this as a zero sum game, that for an immigrant to win it means an American must lose. I disagree completely about that, but ok, we'll never see eye to eye on that.

And why are you going off on how *I* don't give a shit about Americans, and that *I* only care about my *people*, whoever they are, and all that nonsense, how do you know how I feel? I already said many times I respect and admire several aspects of American culture and I'm grateful for what America has given me, why would I NOT care about Americans and America?

It's fine, you simply don't like foreigners and that's why you don't want any here, that's a perfectly valid opinion to have and I have nothing against that, and I'm assuming in your opinion I should go back, but just stop using crappy economic theories to justify how you really feel. Like I said the economy is not a zero sum game.

It seems like the percentage of immigrants and Americans on welfare is the same, I'm curious to know why that is.

You say America should look out for its own, then immediately grant yourself an exemption to the consequences of that.

You imply I'm intolerant, "but there's nothing wrong with that", because I care about my own people more than the rest of the world and use actual metrics to back up why it is absolutely nonsensical to bring foreigners into this country even besides the cultural dilution aspect.

You completely ignore the fact that many companies have been in the news for years for pushing out American workers in favor of immigrants on visas, often making those Americans train their own goddamn replacements if they want severance, when you say "oh it's not a zero sum game".

Whatever dude. You're just going to keep hamstering away no matter what I say.


Edit - clarity.

(07-15-2017 08:48 AM)weambulance Wrote:  You say America should look out for its own, then immediately grant yourself an exemption to the consequences of that.

You imply I'm intolerant, "but there's nothing wrong with that", because I care about my own people more than the rest of the world and use actual metrics to back up why it is absolutely nonsensical to bring foreigners into this country even besides the cultural dilution aspect.

You completely ignore the fact that many companies have been in the news for years for pushing out American workers in favor of immigrants on visas, often making those Americans train their own goddamn replacements if they want severance, when you say "oh it's not a zero sum game".

Whatever dude. You're just going to keep hamstering away no matter what I say.


Edit - clarity.

If hypothetically speaking America lets in only immigrants that are job creating employers that would hire Americans 1st?

Is that still a big problem?