(04-09-2017 09:47 PM)Gmac Wrote:  *Knock out ISIS then work with other world powers to stabilize the region (we're already entrenched in Syria and have been there)
*Setup safe zones to stop migration; send refugees currently in America and abroad back to MidEast
*Re-legitimize US as #1 World Power
*Petrol $

While I can sympathize to some degree with these goals, I'm afraid I don't see any path to them happening. The US has tried to invade and "stabilize" middle eastern countries in the past, and it's always ended disastrously. If you want to know how disastrously, you can look up plenty of speeches by none other than president Trump, who's talked at great length about how they were horrible failures.

I don't see why Iraq fails, why Afghanistan fails, and then Syria succeeds. There's just no reason to think it's going to happen.

(04-09-2017 10:02 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:47 PM)Gmac Wrote:  *Knock out ISIS then work with other world powers to stabilize the region (we're already entrenched in Syria and have been there)
*Setup safe zones to stop migration; send refugees currently in America and abroad back to MidEast
*Re-legitimize US as #1 World Power
*Petrol $

While I can sympathize to some degree with these goals, I'm afraid I don't see any path to them happening. The US has tried to invade and "stabilize" middle eastern countries in the past, and it's always ended disastrously. If you want to know how disastrously, you can look up plenty of speeches by none other than president Trump, who's talked at great length about how they were horrible failures.

I don't see why Iraq fails, why Afghanistan fails, and then Syria succeeds. There's just no reason to think it's going to happen.

Well in my opinion, we had people in power who wanted them to fail.

(04-09-2017 10:04 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Well in my opinion, we had people in power who wanted them to fail.

Why did George Bush want Afghanistan and Iraq to fail?

(04-09-2017 10:06 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:04 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Well in my opinion, we had people in power who wanted them to fail.

Why did George Bush want Afghanistan and Iraq to fail?

Because they want us there indefinitely.

(04-09-2017 10:06 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:04 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Well in my opinion, we had people in power who wanted them to fail.

Why did George Bush want Afghanistan and Iraq to fail?

For a while now I've suspected that (((certain interests))) want to maintain a perpetual state of warfare where combat inclined white males go to die or be crippled (physically or mentally).

The gene pool in Europe after the second world war made a strong case for that strategy. A successful oligarchy would co-opt all warrior bloodlines, send them abroad and make sure they were worn out, used up or flat out deceased by the time they arrived home.

"No conflict too pointless".

(04-09-2017 09:59 PM)Sherman Wrote:  You can say goodbye to all your domestic programs. Do you really think there is going to be a wall? Or a replacement for Obamacare? Ha! The most important thing now is getting Assad of out power. Wink Wink Nudge Nudge. Who has promised us no intervention in the Middle East before? How about George Bush. O wait. How about Obama. And do you remember who else was taken out for chemical weapons? How about Saddam. O wait. Scratch that. Saddam didn't have chemical weapons. That was just another Zionist lie. We won't fall for that again. And there are connections- now that US has reasserted its identity as a World Empire, we will now have millions of refugees. After all, you freely assumed the responsibility. Personally, I am more libertarian - you stay out of my backyard and I will stay out of your backyard. But if you fuck with my backyard, you may find that I have set up a tent in your backyard. Got it?

Do you have anything at all to add that is constructive to the conversation?

Because you and others having female meltdowns and difficulties controlling your emotions keep repeating yourselves over and over and over without adding a single thing that's worthwhile.

Is it so hard for you guys to compose yourself long enough to write your thoughts without all the Buffy The Vampire Slayer snark and tween verbiage?

We get that you're all terrified of the future and you think President Trump is a backstabbing fraud and "oh whoa is me how could I be so stupid"? And "If you aren't jumping to the same crazy conclusions I am then you are stupid" etc etc

Even if you guys are right, you are not carrying yourselves with any sort of respectable bearing.

This conflict has so many moving parts and variables it could take months or years to see the outcome.

And for those complaining about how long it takes to see these outcomes, grow up.

World events don't cater to your short attention span and the world doesn't start and stop at your convenience like Netflix.

Honestly, pull yourselves together.

Well, I guess we can confirm McMaster is a fucking idiot.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-09...n-strategy

Quote:“What we’re saying is, other countries have to ask themselves some hard questions,” McMaster said in an interview on "Fox News Sunday." “Russia should ask themselves, ‘What are we doing here?’ Why are we supporting this murderous regime that is committing mass murder of its own population and using the most heinous weapons available?’”

“I think, as you saw with the strike, that there has to be a degree of simultaneous activity as well as sequencing of the defeat of ISIS first,” McMaster said. “What you have in Syria is a very destructive cycle of violence, perpetuated by ISIS, obviously, but also by this regime and their Iranian and Russian sponsors.”

U.S. goals in the region, McMaster said, are “the defeat of ISIS” and “a significant change in the nature of the Assad regime and its behavior in particular.”

So I was wrong: McMaster has read his Thucydides and does have an inkling that he knows he'll be fighting the entire fucking country when he goes into Syria ... but he's going in there anyway. That "simultaneous activity" thing is basically saying they're determined to fight ISIS and Assad at the same time, i.e. he thinks he can sneak into Syria on the pretext of smashing ISIS first and then turn his guns on Assad once the chaps in the black bandannas have been nailed to crosses.

Jesus, what an asshat. This is like declaring that you want the President of South Vietnam out before you actually deploy in force to exterminate the Viet Cong, and on top of that having roughly one-fifth the troop force that was actually deployed in Vietnam. And like I said, McMaster already has a low opinion of political controls on war given his "popular thesis" was that the US Army's generals didn't stand up to politicians who wanted to control how the war was waged in Vietnam. This idiot is going to think the civvies don't know how to fight wars and will reject any criticism of strategy or tactics.

(04-09-2017 09:47 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Re-legitimize US as #1 World Power

I find it amusing that for all the sneering done at The Zionists for believing Israelites are the Chosen People, they are only empowered through the arrogance and greed of American Exceptionalists, who believe Americans are the Chosen People.

(04-09-2017 06:28 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Trump's real base doesn't give a fuck about the Syrian missile strike. They will *if* that strike leads to a much bigger conflict, but they don't think that it will, and they're not worried that it will. Instead, they *like* the strength of Trump's response (compared to Obama's weak response), and they don't understand either your worry, your specialized jargon, nor your "Anti-Semitism".

So the gloom and doomers need to stand in the corner for a couple of days, then make a bunch of "normie" friends, and then maintain their own morale. Complaining about World War Three drains our morale - and you need to stop.

Gonna have to stop you there.

There is still a science to political science.

I will wait for more information as well as accurate polls before I cement a prediction, but at this rate, Trump will not win re-election. He will be a one term president, barring the following happening:

1. The Dems push an ultra weak candidate (like Howard Dean weak)
2. He fixes healthcare.
3. He fixes healthcare and lowers taxes.
4. He fixes healthcare, lowers taxes, and starts infrastructure projects.

If this war goes to Iraq War levels (which look that way), he will have to have one of the above to stand a chance at re-election.

Let's examine really quickly how he became president.

Trump became president via the Electoral College. He lost the popular vote. Just like Bush v Gore.

Difference between Bush and Trump would be that Bush never lost his base before his second term. Had he lost his base, he would have lost to Kerry easily. He did not annoy his base and Christians until partway into his second term. Karl Rove knew better than to be stupid and lose Christians and staunch conservatives, no matter what neocon craziness they were doing in the WH.

Obama pissed many off his base of progressives early to mid way into his first term. Here is the key difference though: Obama had massive cross-over appeal in terms of moderates. He won EC and Popular. He could easily afford to lose the liberal base. David his campaign adviser was like Bannon for Trump. David is a very smart fucker. He would have never let Obama teeter out of the electable zone during his first term. They knew they could afford to alienate the Democrat hardcore and the Progressives and get away with it. They crushed Romney as a result.

You must continue to pander to your base if you have zero cross over appeal. You think Trump will get Dem and moderate-Dem voters to like him if he decides to flood our borders with immigrants, fights Russia, and leaves Obamacare alone? That will never happen. He would have to switch parties before the end of year two to Democrat and win the primary or work a deal with the DNC if he wanted to do that. Even then, they don't want him, because he hurt their feelings and hurt Clinton. The new DNC head has already publicly insulted him with huge disrespect. There are still anti-Trump riots and activity, much like Bush had.

As for mocking his internet supporters as not that important, that is not right either. Trump, even more so than Obama, won via the internet. Trump was/is 100% a social media president. He would not have come out of the pack in the primaries if it were not for his tweets, internet news, and YouTube videos. Trump is very much so a new media president. RVF is not the only conservative space online that I have seen people pissed off about this. Look around for yourself.

If he keeps up this pace, he will not be re-elected. He is not Obama, Roosevelt, Truman (first term), or an Eisenhower. He is technically not a popular president. He has a cult following. Huge distinction there. Don't let those EC numbers fool you, the difference between a win and a lost would not have necessarily looked like a 50-49 type of score. The race was closer than it looked.

(04-09-2017 10:30 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:47 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Re-legitimize US as #1 World Power

I find it amusing that for all the sneering done at The Zionists for believing Israelites are the Chosen People, they are only empowered through the arrogance and greed of American Exceptionalists, who believe Americans are the Chosen People.

It really is fucking sick isnt it.

(04-09-2017 07:05 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  300-dimensional chess

I'd like to call for a forum-wide consensus to the amount of D's in this chess being played. Can we cap it at just plain three?

I've seen the d's go from there to 300. Let's all agree on something.

Also, I'm beginning to question what is real and what isn't.

On one hand, those Islamic types hate that women are involved in attacking them. However, why on earth are we putting the names of the CO's of ships that did the shooting out there? It makes me question whether or not those really were the ships.

Either something real weird is going on or its 3D CHESS. 3D.

Aloha!

(04-09-2017 06:28 PM)MMX2010 Wrote:  Trump's real base doesn't give a fuck about the Syrian missile strike.

Trump's real base does -- precisely because it's them, their sons, their brothers, and their husbands who are going to Syria under Herbie McMaster. These guys already supplied the blood for and fought one useless Middle East war, they know the signs when the government is cranking up to do it again.

The film Shooter was aimed at these guys. The protagonist, Swagger, accesses his internet from his Rocky Mountains hideaway with the words "Okay, let's see what lies they're selling us today."

(In passing, John T. Reed raised one other disqualifier for McMaster: the fact he has a defective ego by going by a stupid fucking name, H.R. McMaster. His parents did not name him that. They named him Herbert Raymond McMaster. I'm going to call him HR Puf'n'Stuff from here on in.)

(04-09-2017 10:39 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 07:05 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  300-dimensional chess

I'd like to call for a forum-wide consensus to the amount of D's in this chess being played. Can we cap it at just plain three?

I've seen the d's go from there to 300. Let's all agree on something.

Also, I'm beginning to question what is real and what isn't.

On one hand, those Islamic types hate that women are involved in attacking them. However, why on earth are we putting the names of the CO's of ships that did the shooting out there? It makes me question whether or not those really were the ships.

Either something real weird is going on or its 3D CHESS. 3D.

Aloha!

You can have my absurd rationalizations when you pry them from my cold dead hands.

I think we need to move away from saying "4D chess" every other sentence. It's really getting old.

   

(04-09-2017 10:59 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  I think we need to move away from saying "4D chess" every other sentence. It's really getting old.

Completely agree. I'm just glad "linguistic kill shot" (or any other type of "kill shot" for that matter) finally fell out of common usage.

I agree with Kai and Paracelsus , as it currently stands Trump will be a dump faster than Jimmy Carter. His base will turn on him quick and become demoralized, the folks who jumped over in the Mid-west will hand any Democrat with a heartbeat the keys, dudes in middle America will just say fuck it and bunker down to expect the music will end within the next Administration. The election of Trump was the hunger for CHANGE.... CHANGE. If Trump can't do it they will try somebody else. This is the period America is in, they will elect whomever will try to slow or stop the skid off the mountain. Trump is looking like Obama 2.0 with a rush of BS and gimmicks only to get into office and bend over for the establishment even more. It was around this time Obama got all shitty as well with this BS.

For Congress, the cake is already cooked for him legislative wise. With the Obamacare flop he can't restructure taxes unless. Unless, of course, he goes classic Neo-Con/RINO and just simply blows up the debt books to pay for it. Hardcore GOP won't touch deep tax reform unless massive spending cuts and restructuring to entitlements is on the table which Trump has (in public) said he wont do. Democrats won't deal with him unless he takes away Corporate and high earner tax cuts, which (again, in public) he rallied hard for. So what is left? Well, of course, typical RINO garbage of mountains of new debt to make room for lower taxes. If he goes that route then he is certified, 100%, Angus, Grade AAA shit. So for me, personally, I will still give him some time as that is what I am judging him on (his tax plan). No fake Conservative has failed me in blowing up the debt books, they always do it. So if Trump is the real deal he actually gut spending to pay for his tax cuts... but we wait and we see.

In new developments....

4K-D CHESS! OF COURSE! ...

Quote:Islamic State launches two suicide attacks on U.S.-backed Syrian rebels - Returs

By Suleiman Al-Khalidi | AMMAN
Islamic State militants launched two suicide attacks on U.S.-backed Syrian rebels near the border with Iraq, leaving at least 12 dead in the fighting and many wounded, rebel sources said on Sunday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN17B0JX

Non-Fake-News Version:

Quote:ISIS Attacks US-Led Base In Southern Syria, As Assad Said To Use White Phosphorus

With the US now engaged in military conflict with, and targeting Syrian army forces, what the Trump administration has (un)wittingly done is provide support to Islamic State, al-Qaeda, and al-Nusra and other terrorist forces, all of which have been engaging with the Assad regime in a fight in which the Syrian president has gradually seen the tide of war turn in his favor. At least until last Friday's US cruise missile attack that is.

Which is why it should probably come as no surprise that, emboldened by US actions, moments ago the WSJ reported that Islamic State militants attacked a US-led coalition base (at least we now have official confirmation that there are US military bases in Syria) in southern Syria on Saturday, "triggering a fierce fight that required coalition airstrikes to repel, U.S. military officials said Sunday."

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-09...phosphorus

So what is the response now with direct action on USA personal? Also, now the cat is out of the bag that the USA has had operatives mulling around Syria all this time, even Obama was able to keep that out of the MSM for his whole term.

This is spiraling into a joke now. This game isn't new. It is the same tired and recycled garbage from the Neo-Con and Zionist playbook. People trying to over analyse this shit have had their head in the sand. None of this shit is new. It all the same programs repackaged.

The reality is that USA has remained skittish on Syria for over 10 years now because it does not compute situations where it could engage Syria-Iran-Russia and not come out mortally and critically impacted by it. If Trump does indeed roll this dice then having a bunch of Somalis moving into to your town will be the least of your worries. When people can't afford to pump fucking gas into their cars to get to work, or can't afford escalated food prices then shit will get real.

Why does the USA brass get spooked of Iran? Because Iran does not even have to fire a rocket. All it has to do is blockade the Strait of Harmouz and the Western World economy boils into a mess in 24 hours. Russia and Iran will be fine though. After years, nearly decades now being dicked around with sanctions by the West they have the ability to isolate their economies and weather these storms. The West though is completely exposed to these shocks and the only people who get bent over from this is families in the West. It would be a return to history as the USA body-blowed the British with fucking around with the Suez. The irony is that the Suez is nothing versus the volume the Strait of Harmouz deals with, Harmouz is the most strategically important oil checkpoint in the world. All Iran has to do is troll that and the West is in flames. All the while you have rockets, Surface-to-Air missles, dudes on jet-skis or in dam row-boats, planes, ground tropes, and guerrillas, suicide bombers from Iran's block infiltrating conventional USA troops on all fronts. USA gets handled hard in simulations with Iran which is why is balked engaging it for all the time. Why people think things are different now? USA is only built for strategic sea and air strikes where i an overwhelm targets. It has never shown the ability to overwhelm on the ground post-WWII

Next, further down in the article they talk about more Fake News on Assad now reaching into his chemistry arsenal and using White Phosphorus. Which is banned outright among the globe aside from the Israelis and USA who still routinely use it. So anytime "White Phosphorus" comes up in the news 99% of the time is sourced from USA or Israel, nobody else uses it. If you don't believe go take time and google the recent history, the USA or Israel have been caught using it and nobody else touches it. When you can only get Purple Hydro form one dealer on the next block it is easy to figure out where it comes from. They tried to stick this on Russia a few weeks back and it didn't stick. Now with the Assad "Chemical" meme in play it will be easier to stick this on Assad.

We wait ain't and we see but I am getting more and more suspicious.

(04-09-2017 10:24 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Well, I guess we can confirm McMaster is a fucking idiot.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-09...n-strategy

Quote:...
“I think, as you saw with the strike, that there has to be a degree of simultaneous activity as well as sequencing of the defeat of ISIS first,” McMaster said. “What you have in Syria is a very destructive cycle of violence, perpetuated by ISIS, obviously, but also by this regime and their >>>Iranian<<< and Russian sponsors.”
...

...

Hello!

Looks like someone got the green light to start shifting the overton window on where people can expect shit to get ugly!

^ Yea, I was wondering what happened with the Iran paranoia. It died down for a while once the Russian meddling narrative took hold. I expect it to make a strong comeback soon.

The US govt is starting to resemble a paranoid schizophrenic. It needs to be subdued somehow and medicated.

(04-09-2017 11:13 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:24 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  Well, I guess we can confirm McMaster is a fucking idiot.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-09...n-strategy

Quote:...
“I think, as you saw with the strike, that there has to be a degree of simultaneous activity as well as sequencing of the defeat of ISIS first,” McMaster said. “What you have in Syria is a very destructive cycle of violence, perpetuated by ISIS, obviously, but also by this regime and their >>>Iranian<<< and Russian sponsors.”
...

...

Hello!

Looks like someone got the green light to start shifting the overton window on where people can expect shit to get ugly!

If that's true, I guess we'd better prepare for...

(04-09-2017 11:10 PM)kosko Wrote:  It would be a return to history as the USA body-blowed the British with fucking around with the Suez.

Remember that the US didn't have to blockade the Suez or take any military action at all.

All they did was threaten to sell off the British bonds they were holding and thereby destroy the British pound.

Also see: why it's debatable whether the US is actually going to be able to do anything in, or to, North Korea.

The now departed member of NSC, K.T. McFarland 7 years ago. No news on her McMaster appointed replacement yet.

(04-10-2017 06:38 AM)Tex Cruise Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 09:28 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Bookmark this post so you can call me an idiot in 3 years and again in 7. I'll be glad to be wrong. But if Trump has gone native in DC then the next 7 years will be spent sharpening hatchets, and zero fucks will be given about the field the (((Republican powerbrokers))) trot out in 2024.

Quoted for future reference.

How did you get a picture from Michelle Obama's future presidency?

(04-09-2017 10:39 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 07:05 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  300-dimensional chess

I'd like to call for a forum-wide consensus to the amount of D's in this chess being played. Can we cap it at just plain three?

I've seen the d's go from there to 300. Let's all agree on something.

Also, I'm beginning to question what is real and what isn't.

On one hand, those Islamic types hate that women are involved in attacking them. However, why on earth are we putting the names of the CO's of ships that did the shooting out there? It makes me question whether or not those really were the ships.

Either something real weird is going on or its 3D CHESS. 3D.

Aloha!

Women fired the missiles? No wonder so many missed the target.

And team infinityD chess.

(04-10-2017 10:57 AM)wi30 Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 10:39 PM)Kona Wrote:  

(04-09-2017 07:05 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  300-dimensional chess

I'd like to call for a forum-wide consensus to the amount of D's in this chess being played. Can we cap it at just plain three?

I've seen the d's go from there to 300. Let's all agree on something.

Also, I'm beginning to question what is real and what isn't.

On one hand, those Islamic types hate that women are involved in attacking them. However, why on earth are we putting the names of the CO's of ships that did the shooting out there? It makes me question whether or not those really were the ships.

Either something real weird is going on or its 3D CHESS. 3D.

Aloha!

Women fired the missiles? No wonder so many missed the target.

And team infinityD chess.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's why Trump missed Saudi Arabia!

Well, if you want something done right Trump...

#OperationGlassParkingLot