Post: #26

(05-28-2015 06:18 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  Fascinating.

What evidence, hypothetically, would have to come out for you to just swallow your inexplicable pride over this and admit the police shit the bed?
I'm genuinely curious and dumbfounded.
Verification that he (obviously) was indeed laying down when shot?

Or is the simple fact that police were called to deal with a suicidal man automatically clearance for them to conclude things by shooting somebody?

White knighting for cops like this really isn't any different than black people that automatically defend obvious scumbags like Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown.

Evidence that they shot him while he was laying in bed would do it. As of right now, all we know conclusively is that he was shot and killed. Not the details of what happened moments before it led up to that or where he was when he was shot.

The reason you're dumbfounded is because you seem to be reflexively anti-cop. While it makes good sense to be anti-police state, anti-drug war, and anti-police militarization you can go too far in the other direction.

And before you think I white knight for cops, check my post history. I was the one who brought the murder of James Boyd to this forum's attention. I've discussed these issues at length with a critical eye, so to be accused of white-knighting for cops is, quite frankly, hilarious.

Since you want to compare me to tribalists who reflexively defend Trayvon and Mike Brown, I personally think you're behaving like an SJW who reflexively believes people like mattress girl or Jackie Coakley. Not everything someone says is immediately true, but you apparently have taken a "listen and believe" approach..believing what you want to before all the facts are out and using it to confirm your own anti-police biases.

Now if we're done with the pointless tit-for-tat, let's wait and see. If they murdered this man, like his father seemingly suggests, they need to be tried for it.

There isn't much to go on at the moment.

Post: #27

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

I'll say I can't comment on whether it was a clean shoot without seeing what the coroner and forensics have to say. I'm not one to jump on the "cops fucked up" band wagon until I see hard evidence of it. That said, a possible error in tactics that I see is them advancing on him without at least one tazer deployed. Officer safety is priority one, dead cops can't save anybody, but the rest of the officers can drop him with a hail of .223 fire if the tazer doesn't work as intended.

That said, who do you expect them to call? If the police department is of any size the officers receive extensive training in dealing with the mentally ill in their role. As a medic we will not even go near a call with a known weapon until the police have disarmed the patient, and secured the scene. The number one thing that we are taught to ask from the beginning of EMT school is, "is the scene safe." In our clinical training we are automatically failed if we choose to remain on scene at a situation like this. Psych hospitals do not make house calls where I come from and their rules regarding safety would be the same.

It's a shame that this guy is dead, he obviously wasn't right. It would have been much better for everyone involved if he was tazed till he shit himself and then injected with enough Versed to kill a small horse.

Post: #28

(05-28-2015 04:17 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  Why do police show up to the scene of automobile accidents?

To fill out accident reports and direct traffic because the majority of the general public is too fucking stupid to stop slamming their cars into paramedics and firefighters at high speed.

Post: #29

(05-28-2015 04:19 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  If he came towards them with a knife then an assault rifle is pretty matter of fact no matter who you are. Blood is all over and not concentrated in one area.

The family says the blood is on the mattress.

A lot of American cops have terrible trigger anxiety.

Two strikes versus their bullshit "felt threatened" story. If people don't see a pattern with this behaviour and systematic coverup there is no wonder why people start going ape shit.

A lot of family members of the mentally ill are also mentally ill, pesky genetics and all. If they are not they are frequently enablers and codependents who only worsen their condition. Why is the family dragging the mattress, an important piece of forensic evidence into the street and why the fuck haven't the police secured that crime scene?

Post: #30

For the folks who don't have the wonderful experience of seeing gun shot wounds in real people outside of a movie theater, this is a good time to point out that they frequently don't spray blood all over the place. Unless they are close range shot gun wounds, that stuff is pretty messy. So if he took a dozen or so rounds center of mass it is entirely possible that he fell back onto the bed and left quite the puddle of blood there and not much elsewhere. Which begs the logical question, where in the room are the bullet holes?

Post: #31

Post: #32

(05-29-2015 01:13 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Police use of force threads are the new race/muslim threads aren't they?

Post: #33

What are you guys even arguing about? We have no facts in this story, just a bunch of hearsay and speculation.

We don't even know what city or town this took place in.

Girlfriend was a fool for calling the cops.

Trying to blame cops for killing a man about to kill himself makes no sense either. This was an impossible situation by nearly any standard. What could the cops have done?

"DON'T KILL YOURSELF OR WE'LL SHOOT YOU!"

Honestly the only person who could have helped was the girl. I thought women were supposed to have greater skills in empathy than men? She couldn't have shown him some love in his time of need?

Post: #34

The good news is that a suicidal person died quickly so he got what he wanted. The bad news is that someone is dead.

Post: #35

That'll show 'em.

Post: #36

Most of this discussion really misses the elephant in the room. That elephant is named "deinstitutionalisation", also known as "How Western governments saved themselves a shitload of taxpayer dollars to waste on their salaries by deliberately shutting down mental hospitals, dumping the homeless on the streets to either fend for themselves or take up residence in prison, and encouraging pharmaceutical companies to medicate the fuck out of the population at large."

I am sure there's a big contingent of trigger-happy cops. But part of the reason said cops are trigger-happy is because there are a lot of bozos out there who aren't or won't get treated for their psychiatric or mental health problems. The system has decided to not bother about actually locking up someone who is a danger to himself in favour of the lame idea that they somehow do better out in the world than they do in a straitjacket. Police are often left to deal with these clowns with no mental health experts and with no statutory power to take the person down for their own health. Suicide by cop is, inherently, wholly a product of mental illness. Imagine the poor fucking normal cop (not your uniformed gangster who likes to see blood fly) who has to live with the fact they were manipulated into killing another human being.

Post: #37

Fucking Florida man. It's always in Florida.