Post: #1

http://usnewsdaily.net/man-calls-suicide...-kill-him/

Quote:Justin Way was in his bed with a knife, threatening suicide. His girlfriend called a non-emergency number to try to get him into a hospital. Minutes later, he was shot and killed in his bedroom by cops with assault rifles.

On May 11, Justin Way was drinking and threatening to kill himself. His father, George Way, said his son was a recovering alcoholic and had been alcohol-free for five weeks.

“He just lost his job, and he had a setback,” he said.

Way’s live-in girlfriend, Kaitlyn Christine Lyons, said she’d caught Justin drinking a bottle of vodka, which she took away from him to pour out. She said he was drunk, lying in their bed with a large knife, saying he would hurt himself with it. She called a non-emergency number in an attempt to get her boyfriend to a local St. Augustine, Florida, hospital for help—and told them she did not feel threatened.

“My brother has been Baker Acted three times because he was threatening to hurt himself so I figured that would happen with Justin,” said Lyons. Florida’s Baker Act allows the involuntary institutionalization of an individual, and it can be initiated by law-enforcement officials.

“The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”

Minutes later, two St. Johns County Sheriff’s deputies, 26-year-old Jonas Carballosa and 32-year-old Kyle Braig, arrived at the home, armed with assault rifles, and told Kaitlyn to wait outside.

“I thought they were going into war,” she remembered thinking when she first saw the large guns. Within moments, Justin was shot dead.

George Way said the initial report he received from Det. Mike Smith detailed an incident wherein his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife. Way said Smith told him Justin had threatened Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn denies this.

Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said that the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because that’s what we do.”

Denise said Smith then told her about “this new trend in law-enforcement now—it’s called suicide by cop.” She said Smith explained “suicide by cop” is when suicidal people provoke the police in an effort to end their own lives.

She said Smith wouldn’t tell her family where or how many times their son was shot.

Justin’s parents do not believe their son was a threat, because they think Justin was shot while still lying in bed.

“If Justin was coming after them with a knife, at 6-foot-4, wouldn’t there be blood splattered all over the room?” George said.

Way’s parents brought Justin’s mattress to the curb after his death. George says he believes there was a bullet dug out of the bed from a hole found in the middle of it. He also said the blood was contained entirely within the mattress, and that it did not hit the walls or the floor.

“The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”
In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff’s Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental-health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

“If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.

If the deputies used tasers and one prong missed, Mulligan said, they might be left in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.

“They were in a very tight space within a residence,” he said.

Mulligan added that the difference between an assault rifle and a handgun would not have affected the outcome in Justin Way’s case.

“Whether it’s a rifle or not, in many senses, is a non-issue,” he said. “A bullet comes out of a handgun, a bullet comes out of a rifle.”

This wasn’t the first time that law enforcement in the area had been involved in a fatal shooting. One of the two officers that went into Justin Way’s home, Kyle Braig, was involved in a fatal shooting with a knife-wielding man five months ago. A few days after Way was killed, another suicidal man was injured by St Johns County deputies.

On Facebook, Jonas Carballosa, the second deputy involved in the Justin Way shooting, once posted the following quote: “Most people respect the badge. Everyone respects the gun.”

Way’s parents said they do not ever want to call the police again—for anything.

Kaitlyn Lyons said she hopes the police rethink how guns are used in cases where people are calling about those who are suicidal or seeking help.

“I think they should come in using other things,” she said. “And I think they definitely need to figure out how to handle suicidal people.”

Antitrace, comment?

Post: #2

Police shootings are only murder when they shoot a black person, you racist.

Post: #3

A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one. It is entirely possible that he DID commit suicide by cop. It happens and you can find videos of it online, including a case very similar to this.

You have to ask yourself the question: if you confront a guy who won't put down a knife and comes toward you, what do you do? What do you know about him other than the fact his girlfriend called a mental health hotline who called you saying he had a knife and was acting crazy? Do you take the risk that he's really just doing it for attention and wouldn't harm a fly?

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Post: #4

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one.

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Post: #5

(05-28-2015 04:11 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one.

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Realistically, what can they do about it anyway? And you should read the whole sentence there, buddy, because the context matters. They can't send a team of orderlies to come get him like it's the 1950s and they wouldn't even if they could because he has a knife, so they call the cops to deal with it.

And you're exactly right. Don't call 911 unless it's a criminal matter, fire, or a medical emergency. And don't call the mental health numbers and tell them someone is armed because they'll call the cops.

Post: #6

(05-28-2015 04:15 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:11 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one.

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Realistically, what can they do about it anyway? And you should read the whole sentence there, buddy, because the context matters. They can't send a team of orderlies to come get him like it's the 1950s and they wouldn't even if they could because he has a knife, so they call the cops to deal with it.

And you're exactly right. Don't call 911 unless it's a criminal matter or a medical emergency.

Why do police show up to the scene of automobile accidents?

Post: #7

If he came towards them with a knife then an assault rifle is pretty matter of fact no matter who you are. Blood is all over and not concentrated in one area.

The family says the blood is on the mattress.

A lot of American cops have terrible trigger anxiety.

Two strikes versus their bullshit "felt threatened" story. If people don't see a pattern with this behaviour and systematic coverup there is no wonder why people start going ape shit.

Post: #8

(05-28-2015 04:17 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:15 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:11 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one.

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Realistically, what can they do about it anyway? And you should read the whole sentence there, buddy, because the context matters. They can't send a team of orderlies to come get him like it's the 1950s and they wouldn't even if they could because he has a knife, so they call the cops to deal with it.

And you're exactly right. Don't call 911 unless it's a criminal matter or a medical emergency.

Why do police show up to the scene of automobile accidents?

To document the accident, investigate, issue a ticket for someone violating a traffic law, help direct traffic, possibly assist injured motorists, keep the peace if the drivers are pissed, and watch the EMTs or firefighters work if people are hurt.

They rarely show up unless someone calls them. I'm sure some of us have been in fender benders with little damage which didn't warrant calling the cops or contacting an insurance company.

Post: #9

Again leaders in that man's community would prefer to sacrifice one of their own so as to not rein in or rethink the role of law enforcement.

What's one depressed guy versus keeping the police state?

Those people are very committed to their cause and way of life.

WIA

Post: #10

(05-28-2015 04:19 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:17 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:15 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:11 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:07 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  A bad shoot, but it could be a justified one.

This girl made the mistake of calling a non-emergency number and mentioning he had a knife, which immediately elevates it to emergency status. She took his bottle of vodka away..so why didn't she take his knife away?

All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed.

Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Realistically, what can they do about it anyway? And you should read the whole sentence there, buddy, because the context matters. They can't send a team of orderlies to come get him like it's the 1950s and they wouldn't even if they could because he has a knife, so they call the cops to deal with it.

And you're exactly right. Don't call 911 unless it's a criminal matter or a medical emergency.

Why do police show up to the scene of automobile accidents?

To document the accident, investigate, issue a ticket for someone violating a traffic law, help direct traffic, possibly assist injured motorists, keep the peace if the drivers are pissed, and watch the EMTs or firefighters work if people are hurt.

IE: to attend to things not directly involving criminal matters or medical emergencies.

I dunno where you got this idea that LEOs exist solely to handle situations that mandate firepower and medical attention, wtf?

Post: #11

(05-28-2015 04:27 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:19 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:17 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:15 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 04:11 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  Uh, care to clarify that?

So don't call a non-emergency mental health number (what I'm assuming she called), and also don't call 911.
The alternatives are what? Call Pizza Hut? Jiffy Lube? Jim's Discount Furniture Emporium?

Realistically, what can they do about it anyway? And you should read the whole sentence there, buddy, because the context matters. They can't send a team of orderlies to come get him like it's the 1950s and they wouldn't even if they could because he has a knife, so they call the cops to deal with it.

And you're exactly right. Don't call 911 unless it's a criminal matter or a medical emergency.

Why do police show up to the scene of automobile accidents?

To document the accident, investigate, issue a ticket for someone violating a traffic law, help direct traffic, possibly assist injured motorists, keep the peace if the drivers are pissed, and watch the EMTs or firefighters work if people are hurt.

IE: to attend to things not directly involving criminal matters or medical emergencies.

I dunno where you got this idea that LEOs exist solely to handle situations that mandate firepower and medical attention, wtf?

Police are responsible for enforcing traffic laws. Usually (but not always) someone violated one when there's been an accident. They're also responsible for basic order maintenance duties like making sure traffic keeps flowing in a safe way so more people don't get into accidents or impede other emergency responders.

I'm not saying they solely exist to deal with criminals and investigate, but that should be their primary focus. Instead the general public expects them to be masters at handling everything from terrorists, to cats in trees, relationship problems, mental illness, rent disputes, Bigfoot sightings (not even joking), etc.

I've dealt with crazy people who call the cops at the drop of a hat. Like this fat pig who rented my brother's condo he had a dispute with over her breaking crap and violating terms of her lease. Everytime he confronted her she'd call the cops and make up lies and they had to respond. FL's law against misusing 911 is not enforced enough.

But I digress. Family problems should be handled internally by the family.

Post: #12

In this case it is almost comical despite the clear transgression of the police.

I just read that they are calling those SWAT Teams "Mobile Crisis Units":


It is just one of the times. Nowadays you simply don't call the police unless there is a non-violent situation where everyone is calm or you have a case where you don't mind if everyone is killed on the scene.

Just read that article today:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whi...36824.html

Quote:Militarization Is More Than Tanks and Rifles: It's a Cultural Disease

Quote:Only now--after the Departments of Justice, Homeland Security (DHS) and Defense have passed off billions of dollars worth of military equipment to local police forces, after police agencies have been trained in the fine art of war, after SWAT team raids have swelled in number to more than 80,000 a year, after it has become second nature for local police to look and act like soldiers, after communities have become acclimated to the presence of militarized police patrolling their streets, after Americans have been taught compliance at the end of a police gun or taser, after lower income neighborhoods have been transformed into war zones, after hundreds if not thousands of unarmed Americans have lost their lives at the hands of police who shoot first and ask questions later, after a whole generation of young Americans has learned to march in lockstep with the government's dictates--only now does President Obama lift a hand to limit the number of military weapons being passed along to local police departments.

Too much blaming the police here especially in the tough neighborhoods. Economic destruction, single motherhoods, gangsta culture, bad schools, victim perception, drug culture - all of that contributed to that as well - at least in those neighborhoods.

Quote:Americans still have no real protection against police abuse. Americans still have no right to self-defense in the face of SWAT teams mistakenly crashing through our doors, or police officers who shoot faster than they can reason. Americans are still no longer innocent until proven guilty. Americans still don't have a right to private property. Americans are still powerless in the face of militarized police. Americans still don't have a right to bodily integrity. Americans still don't have a right to the expectation of privacy. Americans are still being acclimated to a police state through the steady use and sight of military drills domestically, a heavy militarized police presence in public places and in the schools, and a taxpayer-funded propaganda campaign aimed at reassuring the public that the police are our "friends." And to top it all off, Americans still can't rely on the courts, Congress or the White House to mete out justice when our rights are violated by police.

Huffpo, but speaking the truth for once, because it's an exterior commentator. When the social and economic system breaks apart and unity among the people is gone, then the only balancing force must be a police army that is trained to use urban warfare tactics to "protect and serve" the people.

And as usual - I am not accusing individual good offers in the force. It is a decent and honorable job, but the system is making them all into mindless Stormtroopers.

Post: #13

People, for the record, do not even "call the police", they call 911, which is a general purpose dispatch for firefighters, ambulances, and law enforcement. Do you disagree somebody potentially committing suicide is an emergency? Are dispatchers trained to send police to suicide threats, yes or no? If yes, why do you think think this is the case, if it's so clearly outside of the police's purview and training?
Do you think statistically the vast majority of suicidal people are hell bent on harming anyone who tries to stop them or are too mentally unstable to control themselves?

The amount of mental hoops you're jumping through here to lukewarmly defend what was obviously fucking stupid behavior and judgement on part of the police is just embarrassing, dude. Why?

Post: #14

The real culprit here is the Vodka. If he was drinking Popov or other cheap ass vodka he probably wanted to be killed and avoid the hangover entirely.
Friends dont let friends get shit faced on cheap liquor.

Post: #15

(05-28-2015 04:45 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  People, for the record, do not even "call the police", they call 911, which is a general purpose dispatch for firefighters, ambulances, and law enforcement. Do you disagree somebody potentially committing suicide is an emergency? Are dispatchers trained to send police to suicide threats, yes or no? If yes, why do you think think this is the case, if it's so clearly outside of the police's purview and training?
Do you think statistically the vast majority of suicidal people are hell bent on harming anyone who tries to stop them or are too mentally unstable to control themselves?

The amount of mental hoops you're jumping through here to lukewarmly defend what was obviously fucking stupid behavior and judgement on part of the police is just embarrassing, dude. Why?

1. The woman called a non-emergency number and reported he had a knife.

2. They then most likely called 911 because she told them he had a knife, which elevated it to an an emergency in their mind. If she took his bottle of vodka way why didn't she take his knife away?

3. Yes, dispatchers are trained to send police to respond to suicide threats, especially ones involving people with weapons. A suicide threat involving someone with a weapon is no longer considered a non-emergency.

4. There is a vast difference between me saying they should not be forced into dealing with this sort of thing and saying they aren't which I've either failed to communicate effectively or it's something you're misunderstanding.

5. If someone is willing to do violence to themselves who is to say they won't do violence to others as well? I'm not a mental health professional and I couldn't tell you whether they would or wouldn't and neither are the police, yet everyone expects them to be.

How would you have handled the situation? You should try to put yourself in their shoes.

Post: #16

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  1. The woman called a non-emergency mental health number and reported he had a knife.

She didn't even want the police there, ostensibly she just wanted paramedics or something.

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  2. They then most likely called 911 because she told them he had a knife, which elevated it to an an emergency in their mind.

And who's fault is that?

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  If she took his bottle of vodka way why didn't she take his knife away?

Don't know, don't care. Most logical option is that she couldn't. It's pretty hilarious you're criticizing her decision (if it even was a decision) to not take away the knife, and implicitly defending the cops for FUCKING SHOOTING HIM WHILE HE WAS LAYING DOWN.
Think about that for a moment.

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  3. Yes, dispatchers are trained to send police to respond to suicide threats, especially ones involving people with weapons. A suicide threat involving someone with a weapon is no longer considered a non-emergency.

Again, why do you think that is?
She explicitly said she was not being threatened; laying on your bed holding a knife isn't illegal, actually not even killing yourself is illegal. Why were the cops sent there? Why are the cops sent when people are standing on top of buildings threatening to jump?
Could it be, just maybe, that talking down suicidal people is part of their job as keepers of the peace. Imagine that...

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  4. There is a vast difference between me saying they should not be forced into dealing with this sort of thing and saying they aren't which I've either failed to communicate effectively or it's something you're misunderstanding.

Great, so until they are no longer dispatched to deal with suicides, your point is moot. If they're expected and paid to deal with it, they should be trained and able to handle it.

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  5. If someone is willing to do violence to themselves who is to say they won't do violence to others as well? I'm not a mental health professional and I couldn't tell you whether they would or wouldn't and neither are the police, yet everyone expects them to be.

Avoiding the question, wise choice. Do the majority of suicidal people try to harm first responders or other people around them, yes or no?

(05-28-2015 05:01 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  How would you have handled the situation? You should try to put yourself in their shoes.

Well, I would have started by not shooting the guy laying on a bed. Prettymuch would have been all uphill from there? Eyeroll.

Post: #17

I did more research on this and found the call itself and a transcript of it. Some of the details in your article are wrong. She called 911 right away, not a non-emergency number.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2015-...tent=image

The man had a huge knife in his hand was depressed, drinking, and told his girlfriend goodbye. The girl said he wouldn't hurt her but she never tried to get it out of it his hand. Instead she thought it was a good idea to call the cops and tell them all this shit, which was a monumentally bad idea.

I am trying to find a police report. It would be nice if there were real journalists left who got pictures of the scene, because then it would be easy to tell whether or not he was actually shot while laying in bed (which is speculation at this point) or got up.

All we have is the word of the parents who are understandably upset their son was shot and killed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...l-him.html

Quote:Justin’s parents do not believe their son was a threat, because they think Justin was shot while still lying in bed.

“If Justin was coming after them with a knife, at 6-foot-4, wouldn’t there be blood splattered all over the room?” George said.

Way’s parents brought Justin’s mattress to the curb after his death. George says he believes there was a bullet dug out of the bed from a hole found in the middle of it. He also said the blood was contained entirely within the mattress, and that it did not hit the walls or the floor.

I find it interesting his parents would not want to show the media the mattress possibly involved in what they think might be the murder of their son and instead dispose of evidence (assuming that's what they mean by "brought to the curb") that could back up what they said.

Post: #18

Fascinating.

What evidence, hypothetically, would have to come out for you to just swallow your inexplicable pride over this and admit the police shit the bed?
I'm genuinely curious and dumbfounded.
Verification that he (obviously) was indeed laying down when shot?

Or is the simple fact that police were called to deal with a suicidal man automatically clearance for them to conclude things by shooting somebody?

White knighting for cops like this really isn't any different than black people that automatically defend obvious scumbags like Treyvon Martin and Mike Brown.

Post: #19

The police shit the bed, but I agree you shouldn't call the cops in this situation. Do people watch the news? It's "civilian season" out there in America.

Post: #20

The majority of people definitely still believe the police are there to help them and do good.

Post: #21

"See how accidents happen, guys?"

Post: #22

I was tangentially involved in an incident where a man was brandishing a knife. Cops were called. They came and... Shot him with a beanbag gun. I never spoke to the cops, but I assume this was standard protocol for such a situation.


"All in all, calling the police to deal with a mentally ill family member is a huge mistake. They are not trained well at this and that is not their primary role. They should not be used as a fix-all force by the general public, who calls them for every fucking thing under the sun and they're obliged to respond, but only as a blunt hammer to deal with dangerous criminals and investigate crimes that have already been committed."

The police are a government bureaucracy, and like any bureaucracy, they are constantly looking to expand in scope, power and size - well beyond their applicability. So you see police frequently taking on roles to which they are unsuited - they may gripe about it, but they secretly like it that way, as it enlarges their power and their unions. Plus they have lot of loyal fellators who can be relied upon to defend them unceasingly. If anyone is to be blamed, it must be the public for constantly voting for "law and order."

Post: #23

But in an ideal world do you really object to cops dealing with suicidal people?

If these people are to be trusted with firearms and a license to kill and arrest people, we can't expect them to handle what dopes working at a suicide call center can?

Post: #24

(05-28-2015 04:45 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  People, for the record, do not even "call the police", they call 911, which is a general purpose dispatch for firefighters, ambulances, and law enforcement.

False. When you call 911 that number goes directly to police department dispatchers. Either to your local city PD or State Police. If it's a fire or medical emergency they transfer you to the fire department's dispatch center, or stay on the line with you as they talk to fire. But when you call 911 first, you are speaking with civilian employees of your local police department's dispatch center. So in reality, one is technically "calling the police" to report an emergency. In my experience private ambulance companies are not connected to a police department's dispatch center. If it's a private company they are summoned directly by FD dispatch.

8/10 cops show up on medical calls with firefighters just to see if they are needed. Especially on slow nights. If you are in a medical situation where you don't trust and/or do not want the police, call the dispatch number for your local fire department but just remember it's not an emergency number. Also keep in mind if you give details where it sounds like something shady happened, they will ask for officers to assist.

Post: #25

Basically what you need in a situation like this is a hostage negotiator, NOT your average trained cop.

In this case, the person the guy was holding hostage was himself.