Post: #26

Only by lying can you be truthful in a job interview. (I'll explain)

It would be make sense for a job interview to test you on how well you can do the job but they don't. Job interviews test how well you can do job interviews, usually having nothing to do with the skills they're asking for. Most of the time you're being interviewed by someone who has only a very broad idea of what the job is about.

In the interview they'll tell you all about the wonderful opportunities you'll have by joining the company. Sometimes it's advancement opportunities, or flexible hours or any number of benefits. Every single job I've ever had has promised me these sort of perks. Every single job has delivered less than what they promised me in the interview stage.

The only solution is to lie right back at them. They're lying to you in the interview therefore if you lie to them everything balances out. Both sides are lying so it cancels out the lies and really you're both just being truthful. (only half joking)

Post: #27

(03-29-2015 12:33 AM)FireStarter Wrote:  Only by lying can you be truthful in a job interview. (I'll explain)

It would be make sense for a job interview to test you on how well you can do the job but they don't. Job interviews test how well you can do job interviews, usually having nothing to do with the skills they're asking for. Most of the time you're being interviewed by someone who has only a very broad idea of what the job is about.

In the interview they'll tell you all about the wonderful opportunities you'll have by joining the company. Sometimes it's advancement opportunities, or flexible hours or any number of benefits. Every single job I've ever had has promised me these sort of perks. Every single job has delivered less than what they promised me in the interview stage.

The only solution is to lie right back at them. They're lying to you in the interview therefore if you lie to them everything balances out. Both sides are lying so it cancels out the lies and really you're both just being truthful. (only half joking)

I'm angry that you are totally right about this.

I've never needed to lie at a job interview, but if I do in the future, I won't feel guilty about it.

Post: #28

(03-28-2015 09:29 PM)ms224 Wrote:  The problem is , I didn't have a successful company.

"Success" is completely subjective. Making a lot of money isn't.

I worked part time as a data base consultant for years, fucked off all the time went to Ukraine etc. All you need is one to two references for people who you worked for, if they're trying to nail down what you did day to day you're applying to the CIA and you shouldn't lie.

I list the stuff I did part time, design databases etc, they aren't going to go into "How many days while you're a consultant did you not work at all. "

That WHY you have your own business-- YOU make your schedule.

Nothing to be ashamed about that.

Post: #29

Games trumps everything. Sadly, I have no qualms whatsoever during the job search. Employers are so pathologically dishonest that it's just what they deserve.

Post: #30

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts"

Lie. Just be smart about it. 99% of companies won't bother trying to confirm recent foreign experience and will just default back a couple of years to your last job in the USA.
You can defeat even a determined background investigation as long as it's done by a private company and not the government for security clearance.

The way to do this is to fill the gap with work abroad. Preferably pick a country you have been to, speak the language, and maybe know a person or two who could be a reference. You can say you were self employed there. Consulting services for business, cultural exchange for university students, tourism and tours, business English, etc etc take your pick. If you really wanted to have something super solid, find a startup run by foreigners in Vietnam that recently failed. Bribe one of the cofounders to say that you were a part of the whole thing. The point is there is no way to really confirm any of this. Sure, a private investigator could actually go there and talk to people and figure out you are full of shit eventually, but that costs tens of thousands of dollars. At most someone is going to find someone who speaks the language to contact your references and do some cursory internet searches.

Post: #31

delete

Post: #32

Make sure you look the part, dress the part and act the part as well. You need to really project an aura that you were killing it the last few years. Forget about what "killing" it means in their definition. That's not important as others have already pointed out.

Yet at the same time show up ready to do the job. I mean act like you are ready at the interview. Research the job, the department and the company so well that they can see the seriousness both in the content of your words as well as the confidence with which you project them in your voice.

It's very doable. Maybe not related to your profession specifically but I just posted the first part to a career data sheet for Corporate Finance. I'll be covering more interview and hiring considerations in the next few parts.

Post: #33

Aside from very junior jobs, lying won't get you very far since in most higher level positions your reputation and noteriety in that community will be obvious or demonstrated thru linkedin connections or other places.


Its still not clear to me what you did for two years - how much time was spent doing something other than playing x-box and filing for unemployment?

Post: #34

(03-29-2015 08:21 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Aside from very junior jobs, lying won't get you very far since in most higher level positions your reputation and noteriety in that community will be obvious or demonstrated thru linkedin connections or other places.


Its still not clear to me what you did for two years - how much time was spent doing something other than playing x-box and filing for unemployment?

Even at higher level positions they are sometimes open to hiring mavericks who fit the profile. I saw it in some banks, but rarely.

Mostly it's true - your professional contacts, your previous employments and positions will do your pre-selection for you. But at that point lying is not necessary, since you already get your interview without much action on your part - head hunters nowadays contact plenty of individuals.

But I doubt that this is the case with what OP has in mind. Selling yourself is a must. The wording "company owner" or "entrepreneur" should be used. It really depends on how well you can sell your experience there.

The trick with CVs is to lie on unimportant details, bullshit/window-dress most jobs/experiences and tell the truth on essential things like your real abilities necessary for the job.

Even at higher levels I have witnessed terrible things - CEOs behaving like incompetent assholes and bipolar incompetent fools - I saw those guys being sidelined by their employers after some time - usually in many companies it takes 2 years for someone in the board to find out how bad someone really is. Then they often attempt to sugar-coat the experience and not fire the person, because it's too expensive. I witnessed one of those guys after that effective demotion stop showing up at the office completely and start looking for a new job. He quickly found a new CEO position at a bigger company which was only slightly related to his job in banking. As I expected they fired the guy after 3 years at that major telecom company as a CEO. Again they sold it as someone looking for new challenges. You would be surprised how many men in the upper echelons are running on empty fumes and bullshit - if they can sell themselves and make a competent impression Fortune 500 companies would fall for Forest Gump.

Post: #35

Go and look on Reddit, there's some really good advice on there about explaining career breaks.

I had to explain a 1 year break and it was fucking difficult and had quite a few co's turn me down because of it.

In the end, I shortened the break and added in some random sideline shit that I did (and listed it under a shell company I have, to make it look like legitimate employment), 6 months travelling seemed to be acceptable to most hiring managers but when I had 1 year of travelling they fucking balked at that.

Long story short, embellishment is the way to go.

Might not be relevant for you, but I found this useful during my job searches:
http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/commen..._what_are/

Post: #36

(03-29-2015 08:41 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  But I doubt that this is the case with what OP has in mind. Selling yourself is a must. The wording "company owner" or "entrepreneur" should be used. It really depends on how well you can sell your experience there.

I agree that selling yourself is what OP needs to embrace, but I would avoid using the word entrepreneur - major red flag.

Think about it - your plumber may be in business for himself and therefore is an entrepreneur. But ask him what he does and he'll say "I'm a plumber." or "I own my own business." He won't say "I'm an entrepreneur!"

Rarely do people with any credibility go around calling themselves entrepreneurs, since it doesn't say squat about what they actually do. That word is thrown around way too much on late night infomercials for multi-level marketing scams (Amway, Primerica, etc.) Just no reason to use it.

Post: #37

(03-28-2015 02:28 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

Quote:A more difficult problem is going through a thorough background check. I'm not even talking about law enforcement or government jobs. Most big banks, for example, conduct (or outsource) background checks to companies like Hire Right. These companies will call HR of previous employees, check diplomas with schools, etc. I'm sure they have methods to spot a made up web site and a reference given by a friend.

I worked for HSBC about 5 years ago. They use a company called Sterling Backcheck then. They asked for a copy of my completed transcript. I only did 2 semesters. I still sent it in. I started working the next week. Maybe HireRight is better?

Re: HR. You can buy an phone accounts like at grasshopper.com, set up an ivr (press 4 for hr etc), you can even set the hours the lines are open, the call get routed to a friend you have waiting. He verifies:

1) The last 4 of your ssn,
2) your ending title/rank,
3) dates of employment.

G/f of a friend who works HR for a hotel in Albany, NY told me that's all they can legally ask for and it's "so easy to get over". Or OP can say the company is out of business (no HR dept) but he has the cell for his former supervisor (friend who can act) who love to give a reference (a detailed story about an accomplishment that was written by OP and rehearsed).

Sites like who.is contain web domain registrar info but that can be blocked(Domains By Proxy) when you buy the domain for your fake site. Use can make legit sites with wix, rapidweaver, etc...I think a fake job package could be put together for about 100 bucks.

The best ways to catch someone is to use the social security number to check which employers were making FUTA payments (I saw this form when I applied for unemployment years ago) and when or using the National Student Clearinghouse for degrees. This takes time and $$, and people naturally drift towards the path of least resistance so one can lie for years and probably get away with it.

True.

There are ways for employers to catch fake employment references/lies, but those type of background checks cost thousands of dollars per person since they involve a lot of work.

The only people that go through those type of background checks are high-level execs and highly-paid finance types.

Edit: Although I wouldn't recommend lying about college degrees completed since it doesn't cost a lot to check if you have completed a degree:

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org/verifiers/fees.php/

Post: #38

A background check will reveal your home address(es) for the past 10 years or so.

Just make sure your fake job is within driving distance of whatever address will show up on your background check and you'll be fine.

You can list a friend's number as a reference and list them as your former 'boss' and give them a sheet of responses if they call them.

Post: #39

(03-28-2015 09:29 PM)ms224 Wrote:  The problem is , I didn't have a successful company.

It doesn't matter. They're not hiring you to run a business.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #40

(03-28-2015 08:56 AM)Brodiaga Wrote:  A more difficult problem is going through a thorough background check. I'm not even talking about law enforcement or government jobs. Most big banks, for example, conduct (or outsource) background checks to companies like Hire Right. These companies will call HR of previous employees, check diplomas with schools, etc. I'm sure they have methods to spot a made up web site and a reference given by a friend.

I have gone through Hire-Right background checks and had a similar problem as OP. Just make sure you have a college diploma and student number and provide a pay stub for at least one of the companies you listed and its fine. When they asked for pay stubs for my "consulting company" i said i couldn't do that because it would breach a contract i had with my clients. They bought it.

Think about it, you really think the hiring manager who interviewed you, liked you and made an offer is gonna retract that offer based on some missing pay-stubs? Not a chance.

Post: #41

Say you had cancer. How are they not going to give a job to the guy who beat cancer?!

Post: #42

(04-05-2015 05:08 AM)spalex Wrote:  Say you had cancer. How are they not going to give a job to the guy who beat cancer?!

lol, that's golden.


--

I've had friends just use fake references to cover up their 1-2 year working gaps. Some just travelled for that period and then used 2 fake references and a well written resume to cover it up and also get a huge pay rise in the process.

I myself might need to cover up a working gap in the future so will start thinking about how I'll frame it before everything occurs.

Post: #43

(04-05-2015 05:08 AM)spalex Wrote:  Say you had cancer. How are they not going to give a job to the guy who beat cancer?!

Dunno - I'd be careful with that. If I was interviewing someone and they said that they had recently had cancer I would definitively be hesitant to hire them. Theres a far higher chance of them being out sick, needing to go to doctors appointments etc in the future than someone with no history of serious disease. No hiring employer will admit this thought process obviously, but I would imagine theres a not insignificant number of people who would think along similar lines.

Post: #44

Tell them you were abducted by aliens and have the butt probe to prove it.

Post: #45

(04-08-2015 06:39 PM)zatara Wrote:  

(04-05-2015 05:08 AM)spalex Wrote:  Say you had cancer. How are they not going to give a job to the guy who beat cancer?!

Dunno - I'd be careful with that. If I was interviewing someone and they said that they had recently had cancer I would definitively be hesitant to hire them. Theres a far higher chance of them being out sick, needing to go to doctors appointments etc in the future than someone with no history of serious disease. No hiring employer will admit this thought process obviously, but I would imagine theres a not insignificant number of people who would think along similar lines.

There is that.

But think about what is going to happen in the interview process.

They will do 5 or 6 interviews that day.
When they are talking amongst themselves about the candidates and one says "I liked the forth guy" and they ask "which one was that again?" He is going to say "Cancer guy".
Then they will be referring to you as the guy that had cancer.
They will never say out loud in an office environment "Nah we cant hire cancer guy because he had cancer"
I think it brings on a whole new level of pity.

I'm thinking about this way to much. I would seriously like to try this and document what the results are. If only I didnt already have a job.

Post: #46

One example, if OP is still reading.
http://diffle-history.blogspot.com.au/20...rmath.html

Post: #47

This thread is an absolute gold mine. Thank you, internet!

Having thought about this before, I almost considered paying an old employer (a distant relative) to say I was hired during the time I actually wasn't. You can always try taking a few temp jobs until you can schmooze one of your bosses to go through with this (lying about your employment back-history). That's the best I got for ya.

But yeah, same story as OP. I had 40k saved and decided that going back to entry level work was a waste energy. My only regret is the gap on the resume. And if I get my BA now it'll probably make the gap irrelevant (there's another one: get a degree or certification, say you were working on it all along).

I've got 2 of the 3 big ticket items (Health, Wealth, and Relationships) on lock. Now all I want anymore is worthwhile work. And if I'm qualified for it, I don't see why employers should care how I got qualified (within reason, but you get the picture).

Post: #48

(04-12-2015 11:17 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  One example, if OP is still reading.
http://diffle-history.blogspot.com.au/20...rmath.html

That's probably the best thing to do if you take time off work: try to start a new business. Because you don't want to just sit on your ass anyway, so might as well try something.

It doesn't have to be capital intensive. For example, come up with an online business idea and make a nice website. Let's say it's some kind of consulting company based on your prior experience. If the business goes well, expand it and hire people (e.g. technical specialists in India or the Philippines). If it doesn't go well, just keep the web site running and make up a bullshit story about hiring these people and growing the business which you then had to close for whatever reason. You'll also have to come up with fake clients in this case, but you can mention some obscure companies based outside of the US or just say that you had NDAs with your clients and can't name them.

Post: #49

WHY do you want to get back into the corporate engineering field? ? ? Find some other means of income.

Post: #50

(04-14-2015 10:01 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  WHY do you want to get back into the corporate engineering field? ? ? Find some other means of income.

Not everyone has the cojones to go fully independent.