Post: #1

Partial Quote

Quote:PARIS — A German jetliner on a routine flight to Düsseldorf from Barcelona, Spain, rapidly lost altitude for more than eight minutes and then crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday morning with 144 passengers and six crew members onboard, the airline said.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls of France said that no one on the plane had survived the crash.

Search and rescue teams scrambled in the afternoon to get to the site, in a remote and rugged part of the Alpes de Haute-Provence region of southeastern France that President François Hollande said at a news conference would be very difficult to reach. The French Interior Ministry said that more than 400 police officers and rescue personnel had been dispatched to the area.

In the early evening, the French interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, reported that the plane’s cockpit voice recorder, one of the plane’s two “black boxes,” had been found. The device records up to two hours of the pilots’ conversations as well as other sounds, including any alarms that may have sounded during the flight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/world/....html?_r=0

Post: #2

What a shame, goes to show you, you can die at any minute of any day.

RIP souls.

Post: #3

I can't even remember the last time there's been a large commercial airline crash in Europe. I wonder what the hell happened.

Post: #4

RIP

This is what will happen at CNN for at least a month...

Post: #5

There is a thread on airliners.net ( http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums...n/6351972/ ), a forum often frequented by pilots and aero engineers themselves, discussing the crash.

So sad RIP

Post: #6

Video Helicopter Flyover of Crashed Plane

Jesus Christ nothing looks recognizable, it's all shattered into tiny debris.

Post: #7

I could imagine no job worse than the guy who has to go to a crash site like that to identify and collect human remains.

Post: #8

Absolutely terrible. Not only did all of those people die, but they likely experienced unfathomable amounts of emotional and physical pain in the 8 minute descent.

Post: #9

Anyone think it could be a possible terrorist attack?

Post: #10

(03-24-2015 05:02 PM)Drazen Wrote:  Anyone think it could be a possible terrorist attack?

I've heard terrorism is unlikely. Terrorists tend to be much more spectacular. They've found the black box, so only time will tell.

Post: #11

Any speculation provided by the media is bullshit.

The fact is the plane dropped 27,000' in 8 minutes, which means a descent of 3,300 feet/min. This is consistent with a controlled, emergency descent consciously initiated by the pilots. The most common reason for an emergency descent is rapid depressurization of the aircraft or an onboard fire. Other emergencies, including medical emergencies, would warrant a pilot to initiate such a descent only if near an airport intended for the emergency landing. The plane did not fall out of the sky at the speed of gravity.

As an airline pilot I cannot really think of many reasons this would happen. My only explanation is some type of explosion or fire. The pilots initiated a descent and by time they got to 10,000', the altitude typically chosen for level off, problems had compounded and they were unable to maintain altitude. They hit the ground at incredible speed, so its unlikely they were able to level off at all.

Another possible problem is a malfunction of flight instruments, causing the pilots to stall the wings and lose control. This has happened in the past with Airbus aircraft (Air France 447).

Post: #12

(03-24-2015 05:02 PM)Drazen Wrote:  Anyone think it could be a possible terrorist attack?

Yeah I doubt it also, they're Diva's so they'll want to make it known it was them, deadly attention whoring, and noones claimed they did this on purpose.

Post: #13

(03-24-2015 06:12 PM)RIslander Wrote:  snip

Another possible problem is a malfunction of flight instruments, causing the pilots to stall the wings and lose control. This has happened in the past with Airbus aircraft (Air France 447).

Thought that particular problem was mitigated by updated software and pilot training? It was nearly 6 years ago.

RIP.

Post: #14

Was there any may day call from the pilots? If not either the pilots were so busy trying to gain control that they didn't have time to call for an emergency, or they were incapacitated. Or less likely, pilot suicide like with that Egypt Air incident. Any other possibilities?

Post: #15

(03-24-2015 07:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Was there any may day call from the pilots? If not either the pilots were so busy trying to gain control that they didn't have time to call for an emergency, or they were incapacitated. Or less likely, pilot suicide like with that Egypt Air incident. Any other possibilities?

I heard on the news that they did not contact the tower.

Post: #16

(03-24-2015 04:32 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  I could imagine no job worse than the guy who has to go to a crash site like that to identify and collect human remains.

The brother of an acquaintance of mine worked for the NTSB.
He says the smell of burnt flesh mixed with airline fuel never leaves one's nose.

Post: #17

The smell of burnt flesh is definitely unpleasant. RIP to those lost, hopefully some good will come of it and lessons will be learned that save lives in the future.

Post: #18

Is it just me or has the past ~year been a black swan for commercial plane crashes? I hardly remember any between 9/11/01 and the missing Malaysia flight, but since then it seems like every couple months or so.

Post: #19

DrewP I have been wondering the same thing. Have they been crashing and major news outlets just haven't been covering them or what? Definitely interesting.

Post: #20

(03-25-2015 09:51 AM)Ronald Reagan Wrote:  DrewP I have been wondering the same thing. Have they been crashing and major news outlets just haven't been covering them or what? Definitely interesting.

Airline crashes and cops using their fire arms against coloured aggrivators are the hot news items this year

Post: #21

For those who are wondering why the pilots didn't send out a mayday is that communication is the last thing on their priority list during an emergency.*

They are trained to Aviate, Navigate, Communicate... in that order.

During an emergency, they focus on flying the damn plane above all else.

Once they have control of the plane, they navigate... looking for the closest airport or spot for an emergency landing.

Once they have identified a location to (safely) land, ONLY then they communicate... mayday, etc.

It seems counter intuitive, but when something goes wrong in a flight, it goes wrong fast. To save the flight, every second counts to a pilot. Better spend that time saving the plane than calling for help and waiting for an air traffic controller to reply.

* I have friends who are pilots, and I once aspired to be one myself.

Post: #22

Flight recorder data indicating loss of instruments, pilot panic and driving the aircraft into an unrecoverable stall in 3... 2... 1...

Post: #23

More suspect than the lack of communication is the descent profile, which appears at this time to be both steady in terms of rate of descent and course taken while descending (3500 fpm would definitely have been noticed by the passengers but is not out of the ordinary, unlike SilkAir 185). This is unusual, typically in some sort of in flight emergency/upset you will see the course and descent rate go all over the place as the pilots try to understand the nature of what they're dealing with and attempt to save the a/c.

Post: #24

(03-24-2015 06:53 PM)Engineer Wrote:  

(03-24-2015 06:12 PM)RIslander Wrote:  snip

Another possible problem is a malfunction of flight instruments, causing the pilots to stall the wings and lose control. This has happened in the past with Airbus aircraft (Air France 447).

Thought that particular problem was mitigated by updated software and pilot training? It was nearly 6 years ago.

RIP.

I'm not an Airbus pilot so I cannot comment on that. Pilots receive little training on failed flight instruments. The only resource is a checklist which has the pilots manually change air data computers to try and isolate the failed system. Most aircraft have 3-4 separate flight instrument systems.

(03-24-2015 07:12 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Was there any may day call from the pilots? If not either the pilots were so busy trying to gain control that they didn't have time to call for an emergency, or they were incapacitated. Or less likely, pilot suicide like with that Egypt Air incident. Any other possibilities?

There's a saying in aviation "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate". In an emergency where the plane has lost control, the last thing on a pilot's mind is calling air traffic control. In the event of an controlled emergency descent initiated by the pilots, its highly unlikely that the pilots would not advise air traffic control. That's what makes this case strange.

Nearly all evidence points to that Egypt Air flight being brought down an uncontrolled stabilizer trim runaway or by a missile. The pilot said a prayer "I have put my faith in God's hands", a common thing for a Muslim man to do while under duress, and the media ran with it. A stabilizer trim runaway is when a panel on the tail moves to full deflection. Stabilizer trim is used to maintain level flight. If this runaway occurs, it may force the airplane in to an uncontrollable dive or climb, which is consistent with the aircraft's flight profile. This is a highly dangerous situation and something that pilots are now trained on. However, if the trim is not stopped before a certain point, depending on the aircraft and the loading, it may not be controllable.

Most people in the aviation community do not believe in the suicide theory.

This is also a plausible scenario for the Germanwings crash... More than likely the pilots would not think to make a mayday call.

Post: #25

Quote:Here's a look at what is known about the victims' nationalities:

— 72 Germans, confirmed by Germanwings.

— 35 Spaniards, according to Germanwings; Spain says there may be up to 51.

— 3 British, confirmed by the government, which says there may be more. Germanwings could only confirm 1 British.

— 3 Kazakhs, confirmed by the government

— 2 Americans, confirmed by the government and Germanwings.

— 2 Argentines, confirmed by Germanwings.

— 2 Australians, confirmed by the government and Germanwings.

— 2 Colombians, confirmed by the government. Germanwings listed 1 Colombian.

— 2 Iranians, confirmed by Germanwings.

— 2 Japanese, confirmed by the government. Germanwings listed 1 Japanese.

— 2 Mexicans, confirmed by government. Germanwings listed 1 Mexican.

— 2 Venezuelans, confirmed by Germanwings.

— 1 Belgian, confirmed by Germanwings.

— 1 Dane, confirmed by the government and Germanwings.

— 1 Dutch, confirmed by the government and Germanwings.

— 1 Israeli, confirmed by the government and Germanwings.

— 1 Moroccan, confirmed by French Prime Minister Manuel Valls.

— 1 Turk, confirmed by the government.

Flight recorder - news is saying it will take a while to get some data out of it. This is the one that recorded dialogue. The one that tracked movement is still missing.