Post: #26

(03-21-2015 04:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  As I age, the concept of "love" between a man and a women appears to be a societal construct. A forced, marketed and bullshit exercise to support economic interests; namely the women and marketers that benefit from your earning potential. And for the 1/10 marriages that is actually happy, you have to ask yourself what its all worth.

There are only a select few women in your life who will ever be capable of maintaining truly unconditional love for you as a man:

1. Your mother
2. Some of your female relatives (ex: your grandmother, your sister, maybe some of your aunts, etc)
3. Your daughters

That's it. If you seek truly unconditional love from a woman who is not in one of the above categories, you will probably be searching for a lifetime. Men are the true romantics. Women, generally speaking, can love men only conditionally. This is because the mating game (particularly from the female perspective) is inherently conditional, and that reality can't be altered no matter how aggressively marketers and assorted dreamers with little understanding of (or willingness to embrace and accept) the cold realities of human nature preach the contrary.

I suspect that, deep down, there's a part of every man that, consciously or unconsciously, recognizes this reality. I think it is a big reason why men get so funny about their daughters. For many men (ex: those who had no sisters/weren't close to them, those whose older female relatives were few in number or have all gone, etc), a daughter represents their only realistic chance at receiving truly unconditional affection and love from a female. The romantic/sexual attention they may receive from the women they date/marry is too conditional and ephemeral to truly replace this.

Post: #27

My family is really old school so it was normal to be married and have a kid or two by 20 for the men and women. I always enjoyed that and knew I would like kids myself oneday. Having a large and connected family feels right.

My son wasn't born until I was 22 which isn't much of a different. At that point I was graduated from college and had been working for 8 months and had some money saved for the expenses of a child.

Then child support had fucked me over even though I spent money on my son and spent 3-4 days a week with him. They ignored the receipts I showed for all I bought. They said that it didn't count because it wasn't overnight. I asked for him overnight they said I couldn't do that because he was too young. The mother and I were together but if she stayed the night too it was considered her expenses.

Not to mention neither the mother or I wanted to go through the "Friend of the Court" or child support at all but we were required because my son was on WIC. It was ridiculous. They received $45 a month for supervising my account and then another $40 a month for the WIC which buying the supplies would be cheaper to just buy. After taxes and child support I received 47.5% of my check.

I was also required to pay a $150 filing fee and $100 for 15 minutes in a court room. I almost had to do it again because they forgot to load it on the card for my son and they though I didn't pay. I had to email a copy of my pay stub to the case manager. They do not care if you can still survive on what money they take. When I finished after they moved in with me it took 2 months to send the money they owed me back.

That's all the negative.

The positive is there is no one you will ever love more or who will love you more than your child. As eluded to above, I think only a parent, close family member or a dog can love you the same. Watching them grow up, mimic you, learn, and become independent before your eyes is amazing. Its an unexplainable feeling.

The feeling of pride when your child accomplishes something is uncomparable. My greatest accomplishments would always get outshined by my sons whether they were greater or not.

I would suggest you have a child at 35+ and have it for the most part planned. Have the child in another country with a woman around 20 years old so she can continue to have more healthy children if you want. Have a lot of money saved and hidden so if she ever decides to pursue in court. Don't spend money on the things books suggest. Buy a few toys, a lot of books and have your child learn by experiencing different cultures, people and environments

Post: #28

(03-21-2015 04:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:  Read and learn as much as you can about how to find the right women. Wait to marry at least until you have hit your stride in your career, hit age 35-40, probably older, and learn to control yourself, your finances, and ultimately having the balls to walk away from the wrong person. That way, when you do have kids, you set them up for the best success in creating the ideal home.

I'm in my mid-20s. I know I want kids eventually, and this is exactly my plan.

Looking at Rollo's SMV chart below, you can see how late 30s makes the most sense as far as a man's marriageable age goes. As long as he's stayed in shape, turned a job into a career, increased his social and financial status, etc., at ~38 he'll have reached about as close to his full potential as possible. Just like with stocks, it makes sense to sell when your value is highest.

I feel fortunate to be a man, as this timeline allows me ample opportunity to build up my finances, take a few risks (and bounce back from inevitable failures), sow my wild oats, and generally enjoy my life before the focus shifts to my children. It also gives me another decade of experience with women, which I imagine will only become more important given the fragility of modern relationships.

Post: #29

Yep, just as soon as the risks and complications and shortfalls of the girl are low enough. And it'll be none of this 'one or two kids' bullshit either.

Post: #30

Children are 100% sacrifice and hard work. They take everything you have and then whine that you're not giving more. Once you have kids all of your money and free time will be gone. I make a pretty good income and still every dollar goes out the door faster than it came in. Your relationship with your woman will suffer and become difficult, possibly resulting in divorce / separation.

There will be very little entertainment or going out anymore. Unless you have a good amount of money, no more traveling either. Your purpose in life will be to bring money home. Your wife's purpose will be as a slave cooking, cleaning, and taking care of the children.

Honestly if I could go back I wouldn't do it. The parent lifestyle is a an endless struggle that's neither rewarding nor stimulating. My kids are still small though, maybe it gets better when they get bigger? Mostly what I feel is guilt for being a bad parent, and regret for not being able to live the life I want to live.

If you're really going to go the kids route, life your single life to the fullest first. Also try to earn as much money as possible. Marry a really good woman that you yourself have to be mature enough to earn. Unlike everything else in life, kids are a one way deal.

Post: #31

After seeing how messed up the world is as a teen I never felt the strong desire to Sire a child.

Who would be proud to raise a Man in this Feminist Empire and dysfunctional global economy adding nothing but McJobs for the last 5 years since the great recession?

Any desire I had was dampened and drenched with the rain of prospect of income inequality and feeling of nihilism that I felt in my early 20's about what is the purpose for existing when no one cares about meaning, just superficial goods?

Through hard work I was able to overcome much of my despair but many people regardless of genetics may not be so lucky. Out of the millions of potential combinations of genes how can you guarantee your child will be emotionally and mentally strong enough to survive in their world (which will be drastically different from ours 25-50 years from now) and prosper?

If I was Rich maybe, but even then I would rather focus on cleaning up the mess our forefathers have left before bringing more people to have to bear the burden of cumulative societal dysfunctions which have built up since before the cold war era.

My answer to this may be deep, but so is bringing another life into this world. Take it seriously, and put yourself in their shoes being brought into this insanity. How would you feel if you were them? At the end of the day you just don't know to a certain degree because each generation is different. Also consider the possibility now more than ever for a multitude of reasons they could end up being autistic or having down syndrome or special needs even if both you and the mother are young and healthy. I'll end this before going off on a tangent but we need to clean up the pollution in our environment.

Post: #32

And just in case my previous post didn't make the point, let me close with one more fact. I've never been more unhappy and unsatisfied with my life since I became a parent. This is my experience, maybe yours will be different.

Many of you guys will naively dive into kids at some point anyway and learn for yourself. We all do it because nature always wins. She doesn't give a shit about your happiness, as long as you spread your seed. Beware women in their early 30's, that's when the clock starts ticking hard. Women at that age who have not yet had kids will want them very badly and will try to get you into an LTR / marriage. In some ways, this is what happened to me.

That also probably explains why this age group tends to be a poorer game prospect. They are looking for a serious man who will give them kids and be a provider. Stick to the younger girls who are hotter, carefree, and just want to have fun, or the older ones who are past the kid decision.

Post: #33

I disagree. Having children was the best thing that happened to me. And I have 7 children. Yes seven. Before my children, I was broke, unhappy and super beta. After my chuldren its the exact opposite. True, children are hardwork but manageable.

I think a lot of cats that think like this ends up paying child support out the ass barely seeing and/or having an impact on their childrens lives. Moreover, I believe men does more bitching than fighting when it comes to their children. Out of my 7 I have physical custody (children live with ME not mom) of 5 of my children. The other 2 want to come live with me. Men, why allow the u.s. family court system control ypur life and ur children? I refused to allow it, and filed for modification for full custody of my children. I settled for physical custody and joint legal. I have 3 baby moms and only pay child upport to one for the 2 children i dont have. I gurentee dudez would feel diffrently if you actually had physical custody and was 100% involved in your childs life. It is possible (without baby moms being a drug addict, or poor, or alcoholic, or abusive etc) to win custody of your children. Just have to read family and probate law books and prove its in the best interest of your child to live with YOU and not your baby mom!

Post: #34

(03-20-2015 11:40 PM)RoastBeefCurtains4Me Wrote:  I am 50 and can't have children. Actually, I believe that I could using IVF with ICSI http://infertility.about.com/od/ivf/a/icsi_ivf.htm, but there are lots of reasons why this will never happen. This is a technology that only came along after my ex-wife had already gotten too old.

• I'd have to meet a woman who wants to try to have children by this risky means.
• It's expensive and frequently fails, so multiple attempts are needed.
• There is an increased risk of health and behavioral problems with IVF children.
• I'd be in my 70's by the time any kids even reach adulthood.
• Finally, there's always the chance she'd block me from access to the children and still hit me for child support.
  

The thing is, while I accepted it at a certain point when I was younger, I feel a strong regret over not having any children now. I'm tempted to do whatever it takes to find a woman who will do the IVF with me, raise the funds to cover it, and take my chances with the risks involved.

Perhaps this is only my hamster, but I really do feel like I have no legacy. I wish I had a loving wife who was the mother of my children, with a several grown, successful, loving children, and a growing brood of grandchildren.

If I were younger, I'd go overseas and find a traditional girl to build a family with. As it is, I'm trying to arrange my affairs to be able to start spending time overseas, and at least give myself the option to pursue this route.

Are there really health/behavioral problems with IVF? I'm actually the result of an IVF (not ICSI). Back then it was far less common and all. My dad was actually 45 when they started attempting it. So he was 65/66 when I hit 20. It wasn't really that different thoguh, other than people sometimes mistaking my parents for being my grandparents. I do believe it actually took 3 or 4 tries though. I've met other people that were IVFs while I was in College, bio classes liked to ask people when talking about reproduction. They seemed normal, and were at a very good school like myself. That being said we could be the exceptions I suppose.

Post: #35

I have two kids planned and I am still married to their mother. And despite all of her faults she is a very good mother.

I can honestly say that having these kids was the best thing that ever happened to me. That feeling of pure joy the rush of emotions that overcame me when they came out is hard to explain. Nothing can compare to this.

But a word of advice. If the relationship is right and you are in the right place then kids will be great. If these things are not in place then kids will exacerbate your problems.

Get involved spend time with them. Get to know them as people as they grow. Dont waste a single moment mine are 16 and it literally seems like it was yesterday I was chasing around the yard or teaching them how to ride a bike. It goes by so damn quick.

They are going to frustrate you and challenge you and constantly create new crisis and when you solve that one they will be on to the next. And I wouldn't miss a second of it. They will take everything you got and want more. And you both will be the better for it.

It is certainly not all roses. They can frustrate you to no end. Get under your skin and make you lose your temper. Dont. Your the man the father the leader that they so desperately need. And they are looking at you like a hero like you are perfect and scary and infallible. Try to act the part. You will fail at this. But it is ok. They will test your will over and over, your job is to really show them what frame is about. Hint: its not losing it and screaming and carrying on or using violence. It is being that rock.

At the same time they will need limits. And you need to set these be consistent and firm and fair. They will be looking for these limits from you, and they are not listening to what you say they are watching what you do. In return they will be there when you are old and you will become the child and they will become the parent. I know I am going through this reversal now with my parents.

My kids are good people I know this already. Not all kids are. They truly are a reflection of their parents and their own personalities. My son I can say without equivocation is the finest most decent person I know. I fear for his future in this world. My daughter is truly a beautiful girl and nothing like many of the little sluts I see in her high school. But I worry about her future being surrounded by the class of women in our society. Learning those behaviors.

And you will never stop worrying. Get used to it.

Post: #36

I have one baby at the moment and the second coming out next week. I'm 29 and neither was planned. That being said I agree with the kids being a positive point of view.

First of all at my work there are more or less two levels of workers, those with kids or those without. I feel like I have been 'promoted' above my colleagues without children because I have now more in common with my older colleagues with children (I am the youngest by several years) and having a child is much more difficult than anything anyone does at work (and we are working on a 500 million euro project). In Germany you are also granted more flexibility/first choice of holiday and your employer is more accommodating with where you work based on your family situation, possibly not the case in the USA.

Second the joy you get from simple things like watching your kid eat and make these yum yum noises when they like the food is something you just won't experience without having your own kid.

I was in a fraternity in college so I did my fair share of partying and have done lots of travelling after college so sometimes I do miss being able to partake in that lifestyle. But that feeling is also not that strong when I am home with my family because you most kids wake up early, ours at 6, and kids don't care if you have a hangover you have to be ready to go everyday;P.

What I hope is that the material culture won't be as strong here in Germany as it is in the US where I grew up but we will see.

Post: #37

(03-21-2015 01:40 AM)Excelsior Wrote:  I want a large number of children, and I'm constantly thinking about how best to make it happen. There are a few fundamental sticking points, most of which have been mentioned in this thread:

1. The punitive alimony/child support regime in the USA that can improverish you while simultaneously alienating you from your children.
2. The quality of the women you may be procreating with (obviously you don't want a low quality woman giving birth to your child and then handicapping them with her foolishness for the entirety of their youth and potentially doing permanent damage)
3. The quality of the culture your children will be raised in (you want them socialized in a healthy culture that will make them healthier, more productive adults and won't increase their chances of growing up to partake in foolery).

These are big hurdles for a man living in the USA. Quality, family-oriented women with the right mindset to raise multiple well adjusted children are here, but they are very hard to get. If you're not a certain type of guy with a certain type of look (one that women consider indicative of a good provider), locking down one of these women is especially challenging here.

The mainstream culture here is somewhat toxic, and the easiest way to circumvent it is with large amounts of money (enough to place your children in exclusive private institutions for the duration of their lives and thus separate them from some of the foolery that plagues the masses). Meanwhile, the laws just are what they are, and won't be changing soon.

I've concluded, based on all of the above, that the best way forward would probably involve looking to a source abroad for a wife and trying to center large portions of my children's upbringing there. I'm fortunate enough to have ancestral ties to a culture I consider healthy and sensible (one I'd feel comfortable socializing my kids in without fear that they'll grow up to be as confused as so many modern American millennials). The average woman there is generally of a higher quality than here (thanks to the culture's more traditional mindset) and more likely to see someone with my phenotype as a quality potential father of her children. The alimony/child support laws are far less punitive, and the costs of even the best education there are low enough to make placing the children in the best school available a breeze (further ensuring that they are socialized well, are networked better, and have more opportunities as adults).

The only downside to this plan is the startup cost. Before I go back to this place, find a partner, and get things going, I'm going to need a lot of money (enough to be able to build a life for my wife and children down there without their having to come live in the USA as I establish myself). Thus, I'm probably going to have to wait until I hit 40+ before I can put this plan into action and settle down properly. This is like a 20 year plan for me right now.

Downsides notwithstanding, I recommend this plan to any young guy who still wishes one day to find loyal, feminine women to start a family with in the future. You'll need to plan ahead carefully so as to allow you to find a quality woman elsewhere and avoid bringing her back to the USA too often, but there's still hope if you can manage that.

You can take your chances in the states and you might luck out, but the odds are against you.

+1 well stated - could not have said it better myself.

Your plan is pretty much my plan too, but it's tricky to execute in my opinion, mostly due to needing to keep a base in the west where the money is to be made. As you said it's a longer-term plan and you basically either need to wait til you are in your 40s and have enough cash to make it work or to have your own location-independent business.

I guess home schooling is an option too but that seems fraught with it's own issues and you'd be much more isolated in many ways + if you do it in the West you just are playing with fire re divorce rape and toxic culture creep.

Post: #38

Here is a question for the dads:

How much is your kids personality, intelligence, interests, an even mix between you and the mom?

One of my flaws is forgetfulness. As a kid I would always lose my jackets, sweatshirts, books, everything. Do you see in your kids your same flaw, your same strengths?

I worry that I might have a super forgetful kid sometimes, and I think that I should reproduce with a girl with a great memory. But I am not sure if it really works this way.

Post: #39

^^Yeah also things like eyesight and skin. I have very strong reservations about getting with a girl who needs glasses, since I want my kids to keep my perfect eyesight. Also I don't want them to have that acne bullshit. Fuck that, I've seen it when some kids get it so bad it leaves their skin permanently pocked-up like the surface of the moon.

Post: #40

Though the thing is, both of my parents have good memories, and my brother too...

Post: #41

(03-28-2015 10:34 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Here is a question for the dads:

How much is your kids personality, intelligence, interests, an even mix between you and the mom?

One of my flaws is forgetfulness. As a kid I would always lose my jackets, sweatshirts, books, everything. Do you see in your kids your same flaw, your same strengths?

I worry that I might have a super forgetful kid sometimes, and I think that I should reproduce with a girl with a great memory. But I am not sure if it really works this way.

Sometimes they will have some of your traits sometimes they won't. But it is certainly not something you can plan for.

You can teach a lot. Matter of fact if you are patient and take the time many things you can train into them. But at the same time they will confound you and go the complete other direction sometimes. They are their own people also.

It helps to be looking at the big picture.

Post: #42

I have read Judith Rich Harris' work, which summarizes tons of research on parenting and behavior in kids, and finds basically that how you raise your children has 0% influence on how they turn out.

She says basically 50% is genetics, and 50% is a mix of their peer group/society/random variation

Adopted kids for instance turn out much more like their biological parents than their adoptive siblings in terms of intelligence, income, propensity for obesity, educational achievement, likelihood to go to jail, etc.

Identical twins raised in different homes turn out to be much more like each other than their adoptive families as well.

So I put a lot of faith into the fact that 50% of your kids, you can control via mate choice, and 50% you have almost no control over besides living in a place that sets them up to have a certain type of social environment vs. another.

Post: #43

^^^^ Sonsowey

That makes sense but I don't know how family would not be considered a peer group or part society. Family is who you spend the most time with in the early years of life. It is only natural to pick up behaviors from them that are not biological. I notice this with things my son picks up in ways that either me or his mother teach him.

In later years like 10-25 I think friends shape more behavior than family but a foundation is already set.

I think general personalities are largely born and the social influence can either inflate or deflate the traits of that personality.

Either way both genetics and environment go into the equation so it would make sense to give your child the best of both which is what I try to do.

Post: #44

(03-28-2015 06:17 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I have read Judith Rich Harris' work, which summarizes tons of research on parenting and behavior in kids, and finds basically that how you raise your children has 0% influence on how they turn out.

She says basically 50% is genetics, and 50% is a mix of their peer group/society/random variation

Adopted kids for instance turn out much more like their biological parents than their adoptive siblings in terms of intelligence, income, propensity for obesity, educational achievement, likelihood to go to jail, etc.

Identical twins raised in different homes turn out to be much more like each other than their adoptive families as well.

So I put a lot of faith into the fact that 50% of your kids, you can control via mate choice, and 50% you have almost no control over besides living in a place that sets them up to have a certain type of social environment vs. another.

Sort of scary to know I have no influence except maybe on how I supervise my kids peer groups. Doesn't make sense to me though. Parents play a role in how a child develops and it learns to behave in society. I can't believe they don't play a role.

Post: #45

Yeah I don't buy that 'parents have no influence' stuff whatsoever. Perhaps the 'upside' they can impart is limited (i.e. their positive influence 'tops out' quickly), but the downside certainly isn't. Secondly part of the 'raising' of a kid is selection of the society and sub-group within that society that they will spend the most time around, so the argument defeats itself.

Post: #46

(03-28-2015 06:17 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I have read Judith Rich Harris' work, which summarizes tons of research on parenting and behavior in kids, and finds basically that how you raise your children has 0% influence on how they turn out.

She says basically 50% is genetics, and 50% is a mix of their peer group/society/random variation

Adopted kids for instance turn out much more like their biological parents than their adoptive siblings in terms of intelligence, income, propensity for obesity, educational achievement, likelihood to go to jail, etc.

Identical twins raised in different homes turn out to be much more like each other than their adoptive families as well.

So I put a lot of faith into the fact that 50% of your kids, you can control via mate choice, and 50% you have almost no control over besides living in a place that sets them up to have a certain type of social environment vs. another.

This could not be further from the truth. First I must say that the parent is the greatest Influence on a child. Absolutely so.

I have read quite a few parenting books myself. And spent quite a bit of time with my kids and mine and my wife's influence can be seen every day.

Also when an adult is screwed up and they go to the therapist to fix their problems inevitably what does the therapist go to? What is your genetic lineage? What type of neighborhood did you grow up in? They ask about the parents every time. Good and bad.

I can spend 30 minutes with one of my kids friends parent and tell you everything I need to know about that kid.

Post: #47

This is a fascinating argument for which I would love to have more definitive information.

Although I don't claim to have all the answers in the nature vs nurture argument here is a real life anecdote in my own family.

My older sister has 4 kids, all grown now. Ages 32 (girl), 30 (boy)and a pair of twins that are 20 (girl & boy).

The two oldest are her biological children, while the twins were both adopted at birth. The mother of the twins, was bi-polar and had a history of drug addiction and the father had developmental delays as well.

Even though all of the kids had access to the same education, income, and socio-economical advantages, there was a marked difference in how they arrived at their current position in life. The two older siblings both moved out of the home, attended college, and are gainfully employed with the oldest girl even starting a family and now happily married.

Unfortunately, the younger two haven't faired as well to this point. The girl is a HS drop-out mom 3 times over starting at the tender age of 15, and the boy twin also a HS dropout, is now prisoner # 940563 in the state penitentiary. Even with having similar upbringings, and positive modeling in their older siblings the younger set didn't seemed to follow the social cues that were in place for them.

The only variable where we could reasonably point towards failed parenting would be that my sister and her husband were divorced when the twins were two yrs old. The boy eventually went to live with the adopted dad, and the girl with my sister giving both arguments some credence.

Post: #48

I'm glad I had children. The ex-wife who bore them is what I regret. I don't get to see them much because I live in another state and they hate the long drive (~4 hours), but I swell with pride whenever I see them.

Some men don't want to have children, and that's fine. But if you want them, don't let other men's choices and decisions influence yours. Just make sure you chose a good woman.

Post: #49

(03-29-2015 01:12 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  This is a fascinating argument for which I would love to have more definitive information.

Although I don't claim to have all the answers in the nature vs nurture argument here is a real life anecdote in my own family.

My older sister has 4 kids, all grown now. Ages 32 (girl), 30 (boy)and a pair of twins that are 20 (girl & boy).

The two oldest are her biological children, while the twins were both adopted at birth. The mother of the twins, was bi-polar and had a history of drug addiction and the father had developmental delays as well.

Even though all of the kids had access to the same education, income, and socio-economical advantages, there was a marked difference in how they arrived at their current position in life. The two older siblings both moved out of the home, attended college, and are gainfully employed with the oldest girl even starting a family and now happily married.

Unfortunately, the younger two haven't faired as well to this point. The girl is a HS drop-out mom 3 times over starting at the tender age of 15, and the boy twin also a HS dropout, is now prisoner # 940563 in the state penitentiary. Even with having similar upbringings, and positive modeling in their older siblings the younger set didn't seemed to follow the social cues that were in place for them.

The only variable where we could reasonably point towards failed parenting would be that my sister and her husband were divorced when the twins were two yrs old. The boy eventually went to live with the adopted dad, and the girl with my sister giving both arguments some credence.

Very interesting. Twins make great study subjects for this kind of stuff.

Once again I am not familiar with the parenting "expert" referenced above nor your situation but let me offer a few suggestions.


1. She also sounds like she is coming from the far left liberal it takes a village type of parenting which is a big mistake.
2. In your sisters case the kids are from a very different background and many bad things could have happened to them in the womb. And not to disparage your sister but parents do play favorites. Even among their own kids. I have found myself doing it with my own kids at times. A very real lesson into always being present and observing yourself.
3. Finally your sisters expectations can be different for them since their background was more troubled.

I have seen very very troubled children go from a completely dead end awful background be adopted by loving disciplined caring parents and watched them turn their lives around. Certainly not easy but happens every day. This is pure parenting. I also believe in the efficacy of changing our destiny and our future. The idea that our mind and our soul are malleable and changeable with enough will and fortitude.

In fact it is that belief that allowed me at an advanced age (52) to move away from my blue pill upbringing into the red pill world. I would suggest to all of you that non of us would be here if not for the ability to learn long after we have left those critical malleable childhood years.

What is the purpose of the manosphere other than to change a track that we have been on that is wrong and move our lives to a direction that we want it to go?

This is an absolutely critical question and is not addressed at a fundamental level here or anywhere that I have seen. But everything that is happening in our society the decay, the moral decline, the failure of our system from within, even the rise of feminism was predicted fifty years before the book the Game. I will say it did not see radical feminism as the vehicle but that is only a detail. The decline was going to come one way or another.

The root to everything in human action is the human brain and the brain is fundamentally controlled by a script that tells it how to operate. This cannot be avoided or hidden from it can only be played out. That script tells us how to talk how to react to our environment, how to build our own future, and most importantly how to think. That script is the dominant philosophy of our time. People do not take philosophy seriously because it has been bastardized and distorted so deeply by the keepers of the keys our intelligentsia. But it is there and it is like an operating system that is loaded by default. It may be a bad operating system but there has to be one otherwise the system does not function.

It can be a pro living pro happiness one or it can be a anti life misery based one. I believe this researcher is just another brick in the wall of this negative anti life philosophy.

Post: #50

(03-28-2015 09:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

(03-28-2015 06:17 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  I have read Judith Rich Harris' work, which summarizes tons of research on parenting and behavior in kids, and finds basically that how you raise your children has 0% influence on how they turn out.

She says basically 50% is genetics, and 50% is a mix of their peer group/society/random variation

Adopted kids for instance turn out much more like their biological parents than their adoptive siblings in terms of intelligence, income, propensity for obesity, educational achievement, likelihood to go to jail, etc.

Identical twins raised in different homes turn out to be much more like each other than their adoptive families as well.

So I put a lot of faith into the fact that 50% of your kids, you can control via mate choice, and 50% you have almost no control over besides living in a place that sets them up to have a certain type of social environment vs. another.

Sort of scary to know I have no influence except maybe on how I supervise my kids peer groups. Doesn't make sense to me though. Parents play a role in how a child develops and it learns to behave in society. I can't believe they don't play a role.

Its scary because it is not true. If you give up on parenting your kids you are abdicating a huge responsibility. Believe me parents are the greatest influencer of a child by far.