Post: #1

Although the majority of this has be rehashed countless times, it still serves as a reminder to newbies about what they are really getting themselves into. This comment was courtesy Illimitable Man.


If you're Machiavellian and understand women you will have no problem managing female bullshit. The real problem I think is most guys find the cherry just isn't sweet enough. That's to say, although YOU COULD manage her YOU'RE JUST NOT SUFFICIENTLY INCENTIVISED TO DO SO. Most women aren't worth the extra effort, simply enough. They take more than they give. For access to a vagina you have to:

Have her put all her worries and stress on you
Listen to her boring, empty, vapid social observations
Deal with her whining/being menstrual/insecure
Deal with her crazy whenever it rears its's head

And you have to deal with all that like a champ, stoically, because if you lose frame too much the relationship is fucked and she doesn't even want you anymore even though she's, to be quite blunt: an insufferable cunt. You pay so much in spirit and mental energy being in a relationship with a woman. Pussy can be had cheaper. If women have shit personalities, why do you want relationships with them? Most women have absolutely no personality that makes them worth commitment. What women don't seem to understand, flying off auto-pilot on their looks in youth, is that a hot tight body only attracts men, it doesn't keep them around. She will lose her beauty. You actually need to be mildly interesting and/or good-natured to be relationship material. So what do we do? We fuck and chuck.

Don't get me wrong, I think a lot of men would like a family - but it has to be with the right woman. Not a dim, boring, narcissistic empty shell of a human-being. Personally I rather never reproduce than put my children through the pain of being raised by a stupid, horrible, whiny self-entitled woman. I don't even care if she's good to the kids, if she's a cunt to me the kids will see that and it will affect them detrimentally. That's not how I imagine raising a family, you either DO IT RIGHT or you don't bother doing it at all.

LTRs should be mother material - most women nowadays aren't mothers because they deserve to be, but simply because they stopped taking their birth control. Too many whores are fucking dragging kids up nowadays, not raising them right - and that's why we have all the problems we do in society. Millennials are a mess because of divorce and single mothers. I don't want to put my kids through that bullshit. If she puts herself above family, she's not a woman I ever see as anything other than a hole to be used for my momentary leisure.

Not only is the reward lower, but the effort necessary is higher. So you're playing on a higher difficulty for a lower prize.

You have to be vigilant, you can't let your guard down or give into your kindness, because she will exploit it and see you as less for "showing weakness."

You have less sexual options than if you were single, this one woman is controlling your sexual preferences, and then she'll play games where she doesn't put out to control you. Basically, bitches weaponise your libido against you and then force you to listen to their feelings if you cant sufficiently dread/headfuck them. But if you stray to get your release then it's not her fault, it's yours, you're the evil one.

She knows you better so she's better at head fucking you. She'll press all your buttons, say shit plates wouldn't know. Say some shit about your mother, say some shit you told her about your childhood. Whatever. Basically any fucking thing you think is sacred she's going to use against you to "test you" and also because bitches are just plain crazy and hormonal and are going to lash out at some point. She's meant to be a partner but you can't even properly open up to her without her abusing that shit. And it's not a matter of IF, it's a matter of WHEN.

Likewise as she knows you better she's more immune to your techniques/strategies/mannerisms. She will become immune to different gambits/coping mechanisms you use like a fucking disease growing resistant to antibiotics. So you need to change your shit up or it'll all fall apart.

You have to keep reinventing yourself and being inconsistent, or she gets bored and looks elsewhere for cock on the side. Society/her family will support her in this and she'll just rationalise you're a cunt.

You don't really get a break. You don't get to let your guard down. Because if you do she freaks out and fucks off. Momentary vulnerability can only be superficial/aesthetic in nature. If you're LEGITIMATELY VULNERABLE she will dry up and abandon you.

So the work you put in IS IMMEASURABLE and the reward is negligible. It's a terrible investment.

When women make relationship demands, they're just being selfish. Women have nothing but benefit to gain from a relationship with a man. Associating with a man improves their life. Men lose so much spiritually from being in a relationship with the modern day woman that these women just aren't worth it. When women started saying they don't have to give a man they're committed to sex whenever he wants, but the man still has to put up with all their shit - they instantly became unworthy. Some guys could soldier on through women with shitty personalities if the sex was always there, they could overlook it - but with a lot of these bitches now not even that's a given. There's so much hard work, energy and bullshit involved in being in a relationship - and the reward just isn't there. What's it all for? Pussy? You can get that single. Love? Most these chicks aren't loveable. They aren't what we want psychologically. Thanks feminism.

Men are beings of rational self-interest. They respond well to incentives. If women were worth it, men would commit to them. They're not, so we don't. Women are pretty fucking shitty for anything other than momentary fun. Relationship-worthy women are probably .1% of the entire population because society is sick and women put career/individuality above family. I don't find career women attractive. I find family-orientated women attractive. When women stopped making an effort to be loveable to men, the only thing keeping men in love with women was their delusions. Once those delusions are stripped away, there is fuck all left. Most women aren't people you actually want as friends or people you have significant mental input with. They're just holes for fucking, or you ignore 'em. Sad it's come to that, but it is what it is.

In light of this I don't LTR up girls with any depth. What I mean is, I don't expect it to last, and I seem invested, but really I'm not. I pretend to care, but I don't give a fuck. They're all research and practice to me. I'm not actually "in love" she hasn't "got me" she has me spending time on her (which is what she wants - commitment) but I don't form the emotional attachment because they lack the qualities necessary for me to want to even attempt caring about them. When you LTR an unworthy woman, you either treat her like a practice bitch or you get taken for a ride and come out of it significantly worse.

To conclude:

Women fail a cost-benefit analysis. Plating is the habitable zone, relationships nowadays are like emigrating to Mercury, too near to the sun you're gonna get burned, living conditions are shittier than they are on Earth. You wouldn't invest in a depreciating stock, well women are the same - they are constantly depreciating in value only to increase their demands/preferences/entitlement as they age. Women do not rationally appraise their dating value. They defy the market by increasing rather than decreasing their demands as their beauty dissipates. Retardedly and quite ironically, as they get less physically attractive, they likewise become less mentally attractive.

Wanna know what a woman's maturity brings? It doesn't bring about intelligence, enlightenment or more reasonable expectations. It brings about more baggage, more unrealistic expectations and a more emphatic anti-male sentiment. THEY MAKE THEMSELVES EVEN LESS ATTRACTIVE PSYCHOLOGICALLY AS THEY AGE, WHICH IS IRONIC, BECAUSE THEY'RE ALSO LESS PHYSICALLY ATTRACTIVE. Women age like shit, both in body and in soul. If you can't buy in when she's at her peak, why are you going to buy in when she isn't? When women are physically worth it but not mentally, they're not interested. Good luck even finding a woman who's hot, young and doesn't have the personality of a cunt.

Essentially the older a woman gets, the less desirable she gets whilst becoming more difficult and entitled. The wall is real. Some old bitches smartened up and realised being submissive/sweet/docile was the only way they'd ever get a guy to stick around. So they take dick up their wrinkly ass, cook well and work hard on behaving like less of an insufferable cunt. You know, they do yoga, try to read shit, have a personality, avoid toxic crap like sex in the city and idle gossip. Less of a simpleton, less of a bitch. Most women who are past it however choose cats and the feminist ideal of hyper-individualised dignity rather than put in the work to change themselves so an older man sees her as being even remotely worth a fuck. To the very end women are defiant. They rather shame men into compliance rather than become what men want. Why would you want to invest any significant mental capital into that?

Post: #2

This post reeks of bitterness. Why are you worried so much...it's not like we wanna wife these hoes.

If you don't think a girl is attractive....don't bang her.

If you don't enjoy spending a few hours a week with her outside the bedroom....don't build a relationship.

If a bitch starts nagging....leave.

Post: #3

Yes, from a logical and economic standpoint its much cheaper and convenient to get something like an expensive housekeeper to do light cooking, laundry and cleaning vs. having an LTR for that purpose.

Post: #4

(03-04-2015 10:51 AM)redbeard Wrote:  This post reeks of bitterness. Why are you worried so much...it's not like we wanna wife these hoes.

If you don't think a girl is attractive....don't bang her.

If you don't enjoy spending a few hours a week with her outside the bedroom....don't build a relationship.

If a bitch starts nagging....leave.

Anyone who's been around for a while knows that. These were not my words but the point of this post is for newbies that are getting caught up worrying what to do so they can manage a broken relationship. They rarely have the perspective to see the entire picture

Post: #5

Eh. Good point.

Any "newbie" reading this....just dump the girl. Once you are single, you will have the freedom to do WHATEVER you want, and your growth will accelerate exponentially.

Post: #6

Love barbershop game and barbershop politics, but usually them cats don't see the implications or the practical issues.

WIA

Post: #7

El Mech drops science here

"Well yes. I get sick of them faster and faster as the years pass. I feel like a live in girl is just a live in cockblocker. I have a little kid to spend my free quality time with which blows away hanging with a girlfriend or wife. Also my house runs like a swiss watch. When a girl stays here even for a couple days shit gets fucked up. Then she wants to talk to me. Even worse have people over which means I have to do something beside what I usually do. Then there's the family. Her family. What's their problem this hour? Don't forget the friends too. Their going to want to go to dinner at 6pm. I eat at 12 to 1 am. They get in your business, fuck with your phone, computer etc. We can talk about closet space too if you like. Your shit will slowly end up in the most inconvenient places. I mean unless you have huge his and hers closets. I don't. "

/thread-13377-...#pid217974

Post: #8

Mike CF - /thread-13377-...#pid218526

"Most guys think monogamy is the worst part of being in an LTR. You'll hear guys say, "How can I only have sex with one woman for the rest of my life."

Brothers, all the other shit is way worse than monogamy.

Remember being a kid? Did you have a mom who nagged you about "wasting your day" laying around in bed/watching TV/cruising the web?

Well, you just moved in with your mom.

"Why are you spending so much time online?!" A woman wants you to do something productive - like spend money eating dinner out, or shopping at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.

I have friends who have loaned me money, I've loaned money, cars, whatever. Guys I love and who are there for me and I for them.

There's no friend I'd want to be with 24/7.

Yet a woman in a LTR, who is way less interesting and cool than your best guy friends, will expect you to give her your every free hour.

She'll say things like, "I'll let you go to the gym."

If you want to go out and get wild, you'll hear things like, "You can't do this now! You're in a serious relationship!"

To a woman, she is always "letting" you do something, since you are expected to have no autonomy. "

Post: #9

I "pardon" you.

Post: #10

Thread should be titled, "The reality of shitty LTR's"

If your girl is exhibiting the behaviours described, you are in a shitty LTR. You should exit it.

If you find a girl that treats you well, fucks you well, and adds to your quality of life, there's no reason not to enjoy the LTR if that's something you are happy with.

I don't advocate a live in girlfriend, though.

Post: #11

Those are some powerful and hard-hitting words by Mike, and very true. At various times you may encounter a girl you deem LTR worthy and are trying to evaluate your options, what you really want, and what you should do. This is my situation currently, and one that frankly I haven't decided upon yet.

But isn't Mike in an LTR currently? (Could be wrong, but I don't think so given what I've seen of his tweets with his Persian girlfriend). So perhaps, there are girls that do not fit the mold delineated by Mike above.

Post: #12

My opinion of LTRs drastically went downward when I realized what a congratulatory handicap I gave women for even showing the slightest hint of a decent a sense of humor or having a step or two into a deep interest. Most American chicks don't have enough nearly femininity to make up for this fatal flaw.

Even then the other 85% of the existence of those chicks are mostly frivolous.

She really has to be so hot and cute acting to make up for the void, and that really isn't the smartest route either.

I think I know women well enough now, to know that if you have good family you should have an ironbound bond to them and treat them well, keep close to them. Same with your good friends, pick up the phone, make the trip, make an effort know everyone's birthday. I don't do enough of that, though I try. You can see that in Mech's quote above. Spending time with his family is much more satisfying than listening to a woman's problems which never end.

A woman should come after all this.

To quote WallSt.Playboys:

Health -> $ -> Family/Friends -> Girls (Entertainment 99% of the time)

We don't talk much about family on this board due to the anonymous nature and the lone wolf lifestyle that happens. It is important though. I think a woman has start acting like family towards me for me to even consider an LTR. If she isn't on that level she isn't in the game.

Post: #13

I'm of the sort that if you need permission or there are always threats over your head regarding sex and companionship then you need to re-evaluate who you're with.

A girl doesn't cook and wants to eat out? And whines about money or staying in? Fuck her off and get someone else.

A girl who has the ability to hold sex over you? There are two ways this can happen. Either she has control over you or she thinks she has control over you. Nothing nukes a womans ego and self assurance than telling her she is yesterdays news as you go out to fuck find another girl to fuck.

Never ever let a relationship go down this path.

The only reason women get away with this is the fear of the unknown for most men. They're either financially hooked into them or sexually hooked into them. The average man does not get women thrown his way. They will take any scraps they can get.

Post: #14

(03-04-2015 04:14 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Mike CF - /thread-13377-...#pid218526

"Most guys think monogamy is the worst part of being in an LTR. You'll hear guys say, "How can I only have sex with one woman for the rest of my life."

Brothers, all the other shit is way worse than monogamy.

Remember being a kid? Did you have a mom who nagged you about "wasting your day" laying around in bed/watching TV/cruising the web?

Well, you just moved in with your mom.

"Why are you spending so much time online?!" A woman wants you to do something productive - like spend money eating dinner out, or shopping at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.

I have friends who have loaned me money, I've loaned money, cars, whatever. Guys I love and who are there for me and I for them.

There's no friend I'd want to be with 24/7.

Yet a woman in a LTR, who is way less interesting and cool than your best guy friends, will expect you to give her your every free hour.

She'll say things like, "I'll let you go to the gym."

If you want to go out and get wild, you'll hear things like, "You can't do this now! You're in a serious relationship!"

To a woman, she is always "letting" you do something, since you are expected to have no autonomy. "

I've seen this happen recently to a friend of mine. He is whipped and it sounds like he has to ask for time to hang out with the boys. I'm pretty sure he is going to bail on a road trip we had planned for this month because she doesn't want him to go.

This can be avoided by setting the tone early in the relationship. If you establish early on that you are going to do as you please you won't have to worry about her "letting" you do things.

(03-04-2015 05:25 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  Thread should be titled, "The reality of shitty LTR's"

If your girl is exhibiting the behaviours described, you are in a shitty LTR. You should exit it.

If you find a girl that treats you well, fucks you well, and adds to your quality of life, there's no reason not to enjoy the LTR if that's something you are happy with.

I don't advocate a live in girlfriend, though.

This is the truth.

When I started talking about LTRs on the forum a few months ago people were saying how exhausting they are if you are always having to hold frame and game the chick.

My experience has contradicted that. Managing my LTR has been ridiculously easy, much easier than when I was spinning multiple plates.

As far as the OP goes:

"Have her put all her worries and stress on you"

This is inevitable but easy to deal with. Let her exhaust herself venting and don't get pulled into her emotional state. She will get over it quick.

"Listen to her boring, empty, vapid social observations"

Ignore her when she is talking about stupid shit and she will get the picture. My girl used to talk about buying a new car all the time and I would just ignore her. She doesn't talk about cars anymore.

"Deal with her whining/being menstrual/insecure"

Same advice as the first point. Let her exhaust herself and she will get over it.

"Deal with her crazy whenever it rears its's head"

Again, same deal as above.

The lesson I am getting at here is that if you don't get sucked into her emotional bullshit she will get over it relatively quickly. All you have to do is hold onto the reins while she bucks a little bit and she will settle down. Women respond to leadership.

I've talked to other forum members about being the rock while the girl is the storm.

As a man your emotions should basically be an immovable object. Her emotions are like the storm. Storms are usually relatively short lived but the rock is always there.

Don't try to tell me that it is exhausting to hold your frame while the girl is losing her shit from time to time. It's not.

I don't understand how guys can work jobs they hate all day long but then bitch about a girl throwing a little tantrum for 30 minutes.

Post: #15

(03-04-2015 05:25 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  Thread should be titled, "The reality of shitty LTR's"

If your girl is exhibiting the behaviours described, you are in a shitty LTR. You should exit it.

If you find a girl that treats you well, fucks you well, and adds to your quality of life, there's no reason not to enjoy the LTR if that's something you are happy with.

I don't advocate a live in girlfriend, though.

'Move in with your mom.' Yep. As soon as you let a girl move in, you give up most of your power and freedoms, at the very least in the one place you want to go to escape the BS of normal life: your home, your castle.

The worst decision I've ever made was letting my ex move in with me when I took a job out of state. She did indeed become my 'mom' + a teenager all in one 27 yo women, who became ever less sexually attractive every time she didn't flush after peeing. Not again.

Post: #16

^^ Job gets you paid. Women cost $.

Some guys need a chick around. Some don't. The guys that don't I think don't nearly enjoy the long term presence of a girl therefore the bitching and so on takes up a much bigger slice of what they bring to the table.

Any explanation that is answered in:

Yeah that's inevitable. So what so what so what.

That doesn't sell LTRs well.

Post: #17

Enjoyed reading all the comments.

Now I rather be single.

Post: #18

Nailed it OP. I only see an ltr I envy once in 100. I don't invest in any one percent things.

Post: #19

Sadly, the OP is spot on.

I found this excerpt specially relevant:

"And you have to deal with all that like a champ, stoically, because if you lose frame too much the relationship is fucked and she doesn't even want you anymore even though she's, to be quite blunt: an insufferable cunt. You pay so much in spirit and mental energy being in a relationship with a woman. Pussy can be had cheaper. If women have shit personalities, why do you want relationships with them? Most women have absolutely no personality that makes them worth commitment. What women don't seem to understand, flying off auto-pilot on their looks in youth, is that a hot tight body only attracts men, it doesn't keep them around. She will lose her beauty. You actually need to be mildly interesting and/or good-natured to be relationship material. So what do we do? We fuck and chuck."

Post: #20

One of the big problems I see is that guys enter LTR's with sweet girls with feminine traits, that is until she isn't

Before long, complacency and familiarity kick in. Next thing you know the needle has moved 3 standard deviations left, then the question becomes: Do you have long term '3 standard deviation Game'?

Most guys know how to get into LTR's, but maintaining the situation is a whole 'nother story

Post: #21

I can tell you one thing I've learned from being married and being in LTR's. Once she moves in and start becoming a permanent part of your life, the relationship will suffer. She will start to become annoying and a burden to you. The familiarity will start to kill the magic and excitement you once had. LTR's are not all bad, you just have to be ready to commit and find the right girl. Most women, even the best ones, do the same dumb annoying shit. If shes a good wife, mother, and companion it can still be worth it if that's what you want. If you really can't stand the way women act, then you should consider trying asexual or gay lifestyle (this is not intended to be an insult).

To maintain an LTR you still need to be alpha. When the wife calls me and start talking about random BS, I get real quiet and she knows that means shes boring me and we need to end the conversation. Talking about random crap is for her and her girlfriends, not for me. She used to give me shit about this but just like trying to get the pussy for the first time, persistence wins out and shes eventually forced to accept it. I daresay she even respects me more because I'm a rock that doesn't move. She has to either accept me for who I am or leave.

Post: #22

(03-05-2015 11:04 AM)forever_beta Wrote:  To maintain an LTR you still need to be alpha. When the wife calls me and start talking about random BS, I get real quiet and she knows that means shes boring me and we need to end the conversation. Talking about random crap is for her and her girlfriends, not for me. She used to give me shit about this but just like trying to get the pussy for the first time, persistence wins out and shes eventually forced to accept it. I daresay she even respects me more because I'm a rock that doesn't move. She has to either accept me for who I am or leave.

On the cool, I've learned to be careful with this kind of stubbornness.

There might be some beta in her life that listens like the emotional tampon, but there's always a player that can find those glowing embers in her burned out conversation and turn them into a roaring fire.

Tuning out your broad is how Bob from Accounting ends up fucking her in the back of the Suburban.

I've been on both sides of this.

Thanks,
Bob From Accounting

Post: #23

(03-05-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tuning out your broad is how Bob from Accounting ends up fucking her in the back of the Suburban.

With my ex-wife, I did the opposite... I never tuned her out. Whenever she opened her mouth, I dropped everything to listen with 110% undivided attention. Look what that got me.

*sigh* you just can't win...

Regards,
Up-and-Coming Plate Spinner

Post: #24

(03-05-2015 03:22 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(03-05-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tuning out your broad is how Bob from Accounting ends up fucking her in the back of the Suburban.

With my ex-wife, I did the opposite... I never tuned her out. Whenever she opened her mouth, I dropped everything to listen with 110% undivided attention. Look what that got me.

*sigh* you just can't win...

Regards,
Up-and-Coming Plate Spinner

Fine line between tuning out and being there 24/7.

First step is finding a woman who doesn't yap that much, you tend to have more serious convos I've noticed.

My main doesn't gossip or blab much at all, she calls me in the mornings, I'll call her afternoons.

Second step is to keep that fire burning, talking about things of substance. I know I want to to my main via text or phone unless it's something legit.

We do send funny snapchats though, but not the entire day. She understand I'm busy and I'm not on my phone most of the time.

It's always good to be self aware of the communication between both parties, never let it get mundane or repetitive.

Post: #25

(03-05-2015 03:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Tuning out your broad is how Bob from Accounting ends up fucking her in the back of the Suburban.

This is not the same as neglect. I'm not talking about ignoring her all of the time unless shes either in the kitchen or my dick is hard. I'm talking about not doing what is unnatural and boring for me, talking about emotions or other mundane topics on the phone for too long. It might be ok to socially indulge someone a few times in the beginning, but once you've known someone for a long time you stop playing these games and get to reality. It helps to have a woman who is less chatty, but just about all of them do it to some extent.

Her choosing to fuck someone else involves a lot more variables than whether or not her man will chat on the phone like another girl. It also helps if you're already fucking her good regularly...