Post: #1

Came across this interesting thread on another forum. Wanted to get the input of the playas here.

Quote:This is a theory I've been working on for a while. It will hopefully attempt to answer two big nightlife questions I've had for a while.

1. Why do many groups of girls, drink, dance, talk to a bunch of guys, reject them ALL and leave? Is NO guy good enough for them? Don't they want to hook up with SOMEONE?

2. Why is it so easy to hook up on vacation, but quite challenging back home?

Keep in mind, this is a generalization. There are no 100 percent rules in this game. (There will always be some hookups going on.) First, it is no secret that generally, guys go out to get laid, while women go out for drinks, attention, and an ego boost. The AW type girl is famous for that. But what always puzzled me is the huge quantity of guys that they would reject. Some were some really good looking tall buff young dudes. Other groups of girls just seem uninterested in meeting men period. Are they lesbian? Do they not have needs too?

I believe it is due to the cell phone and text messaging and the so called "Booty Call" or more recently "The Booty Text." You see, that HB8 that flirted with, took drinks from, and rejected several guys doesn't NEED any of them. She also doesn't need to look like a sl&t by going home with one of them. Like any decent looking girl, she has at LEAST one FB or ex-bf's number stored in her phone.

So, she can get into the venue free (usually), have guys buy her drinks, dance lesbian with her gfs, and get a HUGE ego boost by rejecting a bunch of guys. Then, when she gets home with her buzz still on (that the bar/club dudes paid for), she will booty text her FB and have him come over to b&ng the sh*t out of her.

It's a win win win for her. She has a fun evening out and can still have hot sex in the end if she desires. Why go home with some strange dude that could be dangerous, a creeper, or bad in the sack? Why not stick with a guy she KNOWS is good in the sack and she's comfortable with? Plus, she can text him AFTER her gfs drop her off for the evening, so nobody is the wiser. (That eliminates the "looking like a sl*t" concern.)

So back to my other question, why is it easier to score on vacation than back home? Certainly people feel less inhibited on vacation. But more importantly, when she is away from home, SHE DOESN'T HAVE ACCESS TO HER FBs AT HOME. If she wants to get laid on vacation, she HAS to find a guy THERE to hook up with (unless she happens to know someone in that city).

So, to summarize, while all the rejected guys at the end of the night are scratching their heads asking themselves the following questions:

1. Where did I go wrong? That chick was soo into me.
2. Do I need to buy more seduction products?
3. Did I forget to neg or not stack enough routines LOL.
4. Do I need more gel for my mohawk LOL?
5. Does this t-shirt make me look fat LOL?

You have to realize that to SOME extent, the game may be rigged. A lot of girls may have NO intention of hooking up at the bar or club. They just want to party. When they want sex at the end of the night, they can order it faster than a pizza by sending a booty text to a guy they are ALREADY f*cking.

I was out New Year's Eve and saw very few hookups, but a sh*tload of rejections of some decent looking dudes. Finally, when I left the bar, I went out for ice cream. I started chatting with this HB8 in line. She was very friendly and flirty. I found out that she just left a party. But she was still alone. (Was no guy at the party good enough for her?) I figured I would work on her. We kept talking, and when we got close to the counter, she said that she was there to see her "friend."

She asked ice cream boy (that she already knew) what time he gets off. He said he's working until 4am. She gave him a wink and said, "Ok cool. Text me then <big smile>."

I rest my case...

http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=180694

The OP makes a good point and this seems to corroborate with my observations of trends in the night scene over the past few years. Seems there's a lot less hooking up between "randoms" and cheap texting accounts for much of it. Girls can hide behind the "anonymity" of texting, and it's a lot more impersonal/less slut-like to whip out a "booty text" than physically make a "booty phone call", right?

Post: #2

I do not understand why people are still bothering with the night scene. Night club game is dead and nothing more than an utter waste of time. Even in college right now I see it with the equivalent frat scene we have here-its a lousy place to pick up chicks with a minimal success rate(and night game is supposed to be easier in college).

Part of the reason for this is stated in the premise of this post, which is correct-girls have their own plans when they go out, and that doesn't include going home with random guys. It includes dancing with their friends and leaving later to hook up with a dude they already know who they met someplace else (or who might meet them at the night spot later after she's done blowing off a dozen dudes, dance with her for a bit and then leave with her). You lose before you begin, and that isn't even counting all of the other factors working against you (cockblocks, aggressive douchebags, loud noise, lack of light, etc).

Ferdinand Bardamu and Assanova recently echoed this point, and I can't see how they're wrong. Club game is dead, or it is at least done in most of the US. Guys need to stop wasting time going through with it and then over-analyzing the inevitably negative results. There are more profitable avenues to be taken.

Post: #3

I agree 100% with Athlone on the club scene. I don't think you can count out bars though. Not entirely. I think if you go to a bar more conducive to talking without ridiculously loud music, those are still okay. Places with a pub or loungy vibe. Wine bars are good places too. The vibe at these places seems to draw people who are more about socializing than attention whoring.

Post: #4

Guys, stop hitting your heads in the wall.

Girls want value in a man.

If you go out alone or surrounded by your boy friends (you look like a bunch of sausages) your value is low and no game will help you with good looking girls. Looks are the last thing you should worry, just be clean and dressed for the club. I was to a Easter party this Monday where I met some old friends. Two of the are male models (it almost make me become gay ))) At the end of the night they were frustrated and asqing "wtf do we need to get laid?" One of them was flirting with a hot babe but he has no game and didn't even try to kiss her. She left alone.

Girls love attention and they still want it from you even if they decided not to sleep with you ever.
Next time try to go out with some girls in your group (2-3 girls, 2-3 guys). You will see the difference. I had girls opening me on the dance floor. I had girls asking me for a light even if I wasn't smoking.
Being surrounded by girls you get very high value (social proof). You will be on top of the other guys there.

Having high value will make it easyer for you at the beginning but you still need game after that. In clubs I try to talk less and touch more. Dancing is the best kino escalation. Go for the kiss early on.

Post: #5

(04-27-2011 11:11 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  I do not understand why people are still bothering with the night scene. Night club game is dead and nothing more than an utter waste of time. Even in college right now I see it with the equivalent frat scene we have here-its a lousy place to pick up chicks with a minimal success rate(and night game is supposed to be easier in college).

Part of the reason for this is stated in the premise of this post, which is correct-girls have their own plans when they go out, and that doesn't include going home with random guys. It includes dancing with their friends and leaving later to hook up with a dude they already know who they met someplace else (or who might meet them at the night spot later after she's done blowing off a dozen dudes, dance with her for a bit and then leave with her). You lose before you begin, and that isn't even counting all of the other factors working against you (cockblocks, aggressive douchebags, loud noise, lack of light, etc).

Ferdinand Bardamu and Assanova recently echoed this point, and I can't see how they're wrong. Club game is dead, or it is at least done in most of the US. Guys need to stop wasting time going through with it and then over-analyzing the inevitably negative results. There are more profitable avenues to be taken.

While I agree to a certain extent that night clubs suck for the amateur player, night club game is far from dead. There are still tons of guys out there pulling every weekend, so if you really believe this you are willfully blind.

Bar scene is stronger than ever.

This isn't directed at you personally, but it seems like a lot of people are just making excuses for why they aren't pulling. Alcohol + Women = Potential -- I don't care what the venue is.

Post: #6

If you believe that night game is dead or that the game is rigged, it's a self-fulfulling prophesy and you've already lost.

I do agree, however, that fewer nice, cool and smart girls are looking to get laid in bars/clubs.

Post: #7

(04-28-2011 07:26 AM)Gmac Wrote:  While I agree to a certain extent that night clubs suck for the amateur player, night club game is far from dead. There are still tons of guys out there pulling every weekend, so if you really believe this you are willfully blind.

Bar scene is stronger than ever.

This isn't directed at you personally, but it seems like a lot of people are just making excuses for why they aren't pulling. Alcohol + Women = Potential -- I don't care what the venue is.

While I know you didn't direct this at me personally, I'd still say many of the complaints regarding club game are more than excuses and are in fact legitimate concerns similar to some of those echoed in the first post of this thread. Sure, its not entirely dead and across the country on any given weekend there are many thousands of guys who pull a new girl from the club scene. That being said, night club game still has a less than respectable success rate for the average dude and can be considered a relatively difficult environment to pull in for many(for reasons outlined before). I consider it dead for these reasons(too many negatives), but if you can survive there more power to you.

I did completely forget about bar game when I generalized "the night scene", and that's my bad. You're right, bar game isn't dead at all, and its probably a better option for many guys than the night club.

Post: #8

While this post does have some truth to it, it just seems like a cop out.

If night game is dead, then where does that leave you? Social circle game? Day game? All forms of "game" have their own issues.

You just have to grind on through until you find a type you have success with.

For me, night game is always going to be an option regardless of the success rate since I like to drink, and if I am already out getting drunk, then I might as well hit on some girls.

Post: #9

(04-28-2011 09:20 AM)Easy E Wrote:  While this post does have some truth to it, it just seems like a cop out.

If night game is dead, then where does that leave you? Social circle game? Day game? All forms of "game" have their own issues.

You just have to grind on through until you find a type you have success with.

For me, night game is always going to be an option regardless of the success rate since I like to drink, and if I am already out getting drunk, then I might as well hit on some girls.

Yah I really don't get these posts where the person states that night game is tough. Life is tough.

It's the same as someone telling me their resume keeps getting rejected and that they don't like the odds or the circumstances of searching for work.

Post: #10

(04-28-2011 09:58 AM)texaschili Wrote:  

(04-28-2011 09:20 AM)Easy E Wrote:  While this post does have some truth to it, it just seems like a cop out.

If night game is dead, then where does that leave you? Social circle game? Day game? All forms of "game" have their own issues.

You just have to grind on through until you find a type you have success with.

For me, night game is always going to be an option regardless of the success rate since I like to drink, and if I am already out getting drunk, then I might as well hit on some girls.

Yah I really don't get these posts where the person states that night game is tough. Life is tough.

It's the same as someone telling me their resume keeps getting rejected and that they don't like the odds or the circumstances of searching for work.

Life can be easier if we utilise knowledge. There are places one can go where it's so easy to get puzzy, you almost think the woman has something rigged.
Not all avenues of life is tough. There are tough cities and there are easier cities. There are tough avenues and there are easier avenues.

There are things you can put on your resume where you have to beat off the recruiters with an iron rod and then there are ways you can deliver the same credentials where you couldn't get a phone interview if you offered a free blowjob and 50,000 bucks.

Post: #11

Well surely these alphas that are getting the booty calls must be busy now and then, right? Either pulled something fresh that night, or got drunk, or just doesn't want to fuck this girl anymore.
I kind of doubt it that all these badboys just sit around waiting for a girl to booty call them at 3am.
This looks not a particularly reliable way for a girl to get laid, and after failing a few times, she is bound to look for new guys to fuck again.

Post: #12

(04-28-2011 09:20 AM)Easy E Wrote:  While this post does have some truth to it, it just seems like a cop out.

If night game is dead, then where does that leave you? Social circle game? Day game? All forms of "game" have their own issues.

For me, night game is always going to be an option regardless of the success rate since I like to drink, and if I am already out getting drunk, then I might as well hit on some girls.

Keep in mind that my critiques(and those of the original poster) were directed specifically at night club game, not night game in general. We all generally agree that bars are fine, so the night scene as a whole is not entirely dead.

The nightclub scene, however, is long dead and buried as far as I'm concerned.

Post: #13

(04-28-2011 09:58 AM)texaschili Wrote:  Yah I really don't get these posts where the person states that night game is tough. Life is tough.

Firstly, night game in general is ok. I'm speaking specifically about night clubs. Bars are still a decent place to see and be seen for a player.

Secondly, life doesn't always have to be hard. That's the type of mentality I find that is common in America, which makes a good bit of sense-its what keeps americans working the type of hours they do, going into absurd amounts of debt and not complaining about it because "life is just tough".

The reality of the matter, however, is that there are always other solutions that should be examined with due diligence and can make life easier. Moma said it best.

If the odds are not in your favor, there might be a reason why. Figure it out and see if you can correct it and get a better result or find a place where you can more easily get that result. That's just playing the game the way it ought to be played.

Post: #14

(04-27-2011 10:47 PM)spinaroonie Wrote:  The OP makes a good point and this seems to corroborate with my observations of trends in the night scene over the past few years. Seems there's a lot less hooking up between "randoms" and cheap texting accounts for much of it. Girls can hide behind the "anonymity" of texting, and it's a lot more impersonal/less slut-like to whip out a "booty text" than physically make a "booty phone call", right?

This is why, by following Mixx's principle, refusing to take phone numbers will eliminate the time wasters. If you look at percentages, how many of the women who's numbers you have taken from a nightclub have you ended up banging?

If I am to guess it is 30 percent or less, why not try another approach? Why not get your physical needs from a regular FB and then work exclusively on the SNL?
Once you master the SNL, maybe by being able to ONS a lizard at least 40 percent of the times you go out (and I am being reasonably modest here), then you can match it up honestly with the taking of numbers.

Don't forget there is a lot of emotional and psychological tear on being shut down and disappointed by flakers. More importantly, you don't learn anything by being shut down by multiple flakers.

All it does is toughen you. But how tough do you need to be? The only thing being tough helps with is the ability to continue ranking up those numbers until you find the right lizard that is willing to lay with you.

However, that is not game.

Game is a mixture of awareness and resolve. Your game will only be half complete if you are an expert at detecting and piquing sexual interest in a chica that you want to bang. However, if she shuts you down and you lose your swag, then you will need to work on your toughness (resolve).

Now, on the other hand, what if you are extremely tough and bullheaded but you have no awareness? You don't single out the woman that has interest in you but you merely keep on ploughing through the entire club or venue until you find one who is willing to sleep with you. That is again, only half of the game as you are working hard but not smart.

I know a wingman of a wingman who is like that. The guy is ruthless and totally indifferent in the club. I saw this guy get shutdown about 20 times in one night and he didn't give the foggiest of a slight fcuk about it.

I admired that but putting in that amount of work actually sours the taste of the pussy when one finally gets it (for me, anyway).

So, in conclusion, we need to move away from this phone and text game. If you HAVE to take a number, you give her a max of two shots to get her shyt right. If she flakes twice, cast her to the curb and give her a curb stomp for good measure (<<just kidding).

Most of us live in metropolises. My city currently holds about 7-8 million people in my vicinity (there are more people outside of my city)
. Let's say 4 million of those are female. Let's say of those 4 million females, 2 million of them are fcukable (18++, though I won't go and fcuk a 60 year old).
Speaking very modestly, let's say out of the fcukable 2 million, 1 million of them are really fcukable (legal age, hot and available/semi-available).
We have now weaned out the married and the undesirable females.

So you have a pool of 1 million women. Bear in mind that these 1 million women are updated every day so even if you are able to fcuk a different chick a day, she will be replaced by a new immigrant to the city (legal and illegal immigrants).

With that in mind, do we really need to give so much concern to these flaking texters?

That's my viewpoint.

I went out to a few decent clubs the prior two weeks. I took two numbers after blitzing the entire club (with no success for an ONS but I don't give a fcuk).

I've called the two numbers. The women are on some B.S. Fcuk em. I won't call them again and I will go back to the same club and hit on more chicks.

I have an FB with a few other potentials lurking in the background so I don't let lust and desperation drive my approach.

I am working on these chicks with a scientific approach.

Bear in mind that I am hampered by two things.

1) My city is swarming with betas which have made even fat women think they are all that
2) I don't have wheels since I live in the city core and practically live on the subway line.


However, this is just training for when I reach greener pastures so let it be. I just need to have MORE activity.

Post: #15

two words:


HAPPY HOUR


Stressed chicks looking to unwind. Friends are either not coworkers, or leave rather quickly. And at the end of the happy hour - its still 7 or 8, so there is plenty of time before bed.

Post: #16

(04-28-2011 12:47 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  two words:


HAPPY HOUR


Stressed chicks looking to unwind. Friends are either not coworkers, or leave rather quickly. And at the end of the happy hour - its still 7 or 8, so there is plenty of time before bed.

You hit the nail right on the head there buddy!Also in my area local neighborhood bars for later (after 10 pm) I dont know a soul around here that goes to nightclubs anymore.

Post: #17

I don't know, but here in SP the night game is still on! totally on! Go to a Stand up bar and you will see it the magic going on.

Post: #18

The "night game is dead" debate continues.

It's always the same thing: One guy says, or implies, that it's dead; a team of guys dog-pile, retorting that it's just an excuse for bad game, laziness, complaining, etc.

I think what a lot of guys are saying is that night-game spots--especially douche-bag clubs and trendy bars--have fallen victim to the law of diminishing returns. Every night there are dudes pulling tail out of those spots, but it's getting to be that between the: fatties, average bitches thinking they're hot, douchebags, roid monkeys, "bottle service," loud music, beta pedastalization, cover charges, lines, etc. etc., clubs aren't worth it--especially when day game (and happy hours) tend to yield a much higher-value girl, in general, for less than half the bullshit.

Of course there are still places at night that don't fit the ridiculous "club model." And, sure, some of those still work. You can hit the dive bars, off-the-beaten-path lounges, etc. But, to be honest, even those aren't what they used to be. I don't know about where you guys are, but I've been noticing that a lot of guys being "pushed" out of the club scene are ending up at these places. Unless you're hitting them during the week, you're dealing with a lot of the same bullshit as your regular clubs to an increasing degree.

The game is changing. No one can argue with that. Certain wells aren't dry, but drying. I'll still hit some of those same spots--knowing the game will always have certain built-in challenges, regardless of where you are. But I've shifted my limited resources to other, less-mined areas, where I don't have to dig as deep, or as hard, to get returns.

I've been in night-game situations where I'm in a total sausage-fest and I pull the only worthwhile chick in the room. That's a real ego boost, here and there, but I don't want to deal with that kinda shit on a nightly basis.

Post: #19

^^^ This. Truthmosis nailed it.

Getting away from bars and clubs...no place has more bang for your buck than a good house party. If someone I know is throwing a party and I know it's not going to be a cockfest Superbowl type party, I am there. A hookup is virtually guaranteed. Women are just more open at parties. There is no cockblocking, people are there with the intent to mingle and socialize, I guess there's the assumption that you are all socially networked in some way so you seem "safer". And best of all, you don't have pay for alcohol. I don't think there's anything than can compare to a good party for chance of hookup and overall fun.

If you know someone that throws a lot of parties, that person is a very valuable asset.

Post: #20

speakeasy -

"no place has more bang for your buck than a good house party."

Good point.

Only problem is there has been a systematic cracking down on houseparties in California for the last 15 years.

Got to love America. Home of the free and all that.

Post: #21

(04-28-2011 09:20 AM)Easy E Wrote:  While this post does have some truth to it, it just seems like a cop out.

If night game is dead, then where does that leave you? Social circle game? Day game? All forms of "game" have their own issues.

You just have to grind on through until you find a type you have success with.

For me, night game is always going to be an option regardless of the success rate since I like to drink, and if I am already out getting drunk, then I might as well hit on some girls.

Agreed 100%, but Spin is constantly posting negative bullshit like this about how "night game is dead" and so on. I was out last night, a WEDNESDAY night, and the bar I was at was packed. I can assure you night game isn't dead.

As for the article, of course you're not gonna see many hook-ups on a night like NYE. You'd have to be a total slapdick to think you're gonna have much luck on one of the biggest nights for couples to go out. New Year's Day on the other hand...

Post: #22

To bounce off what CJ just posted, I'm curious if anyone has noticed this s well. What I've been seeing is a rise in WEEKDAY attendance at all the bars around me and a fall in weekEND attendance. I went out on a date on Tuesday to a local bar and by 11 when we dipped out it was busier then I've ever seen it on a Friday.

The only thing I can think of is that everyone is assuming weekends are busier and more expensive, and they're running the same logic that Spin is and so they're going out on the weekdays instead.

This is killing me right now because I dont have a place to bang on the weekdays, but I'm open on the weekends (though I'm banging my LTR constitantly on Friday night and Satuday morning )



Also to comment on the situation with less ONS and SNL, no one has factored in information saturation. One isolated story about a girl getting killed or raped after hooking up with a creeper will go nationwide and scare every girl into not wanting to and shutting down her will to bang.

I remember getting a lot of this a while back in the online dating community when there were stories floating around about girls meeting someone from Craig's List and getting killed/raped.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #23

(04-28-2011 10:54 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(04-28-2011 09:58 AM)texaschili Wrote:  Yah I really don't get these posts where the person states that night game is tough. Life is tough.

Firstly, night game in general is ok. I'm speaking specifically about night clubs. Bars are still a decent place to see and be seen for a player.

Secondly, life doesn't always have to be hard. That's the type of mentality I find that is common in America, which makes a good bit of sense-its what keeps americans working the type of hours they do, going into absurd amounts of debt and not complaining about it because "life is just tough".

The reality of the matter, however, is that there are always other solutions that should be examined with due diligence and can make life easier. Moma said it best.

If the odds are not in your favor, there might be a reason why. Figure it out and see if you can correct it and get a better result or find a place where you can more easily get that result. That's just playing the game the way it ought to be played.

Teddy Roosevelt bears heavily on how I pursue life. To wit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strenuous_Life

Post: #24

(04-28-2011 02:09 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  The "night game is dead" debate continues.

It's always the same thing: One guy says, or implies, that it's dead; a team of guys dog-pile, retorting that it's just an excuse for bad game, laziness, complaining, etc.

I think what a lot of guys are saying is that night-game spots--especially douche-bag clubs and trendy bars--have fallen victim to the law of diminishing returns. Every night there are dudes pulling tail out of those spots, but it's getting to be that between the: fatties, average bitches thinking they're hot, douchebags, roid monkeys, "bottle service," loud music, beta pedastalization, cover charges, lines, etc. etc., clubs aren't worth it--especially when day game (and happy hours) tend to yield a much higher-value girl, in general, for less than half the bullshit.

Of course there are still places at night that don't fit the ridiculous "club model." And, sure, some of those still work. You can hit the dive bars, off-the-beaten-path lounges, etc. But, to be honest, even those aren't what they used to be. I don't know about where you guys are, but I've been noticing that a lot of guys being "pushed" out of the club scene are ending up at these places. Unless you're hitting them during the week, you're dealing with a lot of the same bullshit as your regular clubs to an increasing degree.

The game is changing. No one can argue with that. Certain wells aren't dry, but drying. I'll still hit some of those same spots--knowing the game will always have certain built-in challenges, regardless of where you are. But I've shifted my limited resources to other, less-mined areas, where I don't have to dig as deep, or as hard, to get returns.

I've been in night-game situations where I'm in a total sausage-fest and I pull the only worthwhile chick in the room. That's a real ego boost, here and there, but I don't want to deal with that kinda shit on a nightly basis.

Great post. Well said.

Post: #25

(04-29-2011 12:12 PM)texaschili Wrote:  Teddy Roosevelt bears heavily on how I pursue life. To wit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strenuous_Life

Fitting. That's the mentality I see embodied in the way a lot of Americans live life. My football coach echoed a similar sentiment in the weight room the other day:

"If you ever reach a point in life where you are satisfied and content, you might as well kick the bucket" or something along those lines. Basically, never be content or strive for contentment. What a way to live. It makes sense in the weight-room, but outside of it?

Then again, this is also probably why anti-depressants are the most prescribed drugs in the US. I think the USA is dominant for a reason and this tough/hard-luck mentality has a lot to do with it, but there is a price to pay for it when it comes to quality of life.

To each their own, I guess. Let me not derail this thread any longer.