Post: #126

The idea that sex comes from something you say.

Scammers like RSD love to spread this, as do the rest of the PUA industry, because it allows them to monetize arbitrary content easier. It allows them to turn their very words into dollars.

Sex primarily comes from what you are and what you do. The minutia of the talking aspect isn't that important, so long as the general requirements are met (incidental demonstration of attractive traits, good rapport building).

This is why folks like RSD are true scammers, in that they just want to trick money out of people without helping them. If they truly wanted to help them, they'd devote at least 50% of their material to self-improvement, instead of lying about the importance of words. They are bad people.

Post: #127

I thought Neil Strauss was mostly gold, but clearly didn't realize the extent to which stuff in "The Game" was designed for LA, and not necessarily other cultures. (E.g., don't neg in Russia.)

There's the loser "master PUA" Vince Kelvin. http://krauserpua.com/2013/08/07/vince-k...id-in-nyc/

I went to a PUA speaking forum once. Kelvin looked like a homeless wannabe rock star, or perhaps like a "PUA" who'd been sitting in the attic since the 1970s. He certainly didn't do well in the sets I saw him in. It was also obvious that several of the other "PUAs" there had little insight beyond what you'd read in standard game material.

Someone linked a blog here a while back of someone who said he got tired of reading game/manosphere type stuff b/c many of the people writing this had gotten into game b/c they were not naturally good with women, and as a result, often they tend to blame women for their own problems with women, which occasionally can turn into borderline misogyny. Fine to point out faults with people (fat shaming!), but too much negativity isn't constructive.

I also agree with commenters uneasy with the "marriage is for suckers" stuff. There's some truth to this, of course, but personally, I don't want to be hitting the club/bar when I'm 45, and have a constantly changing and unstable harem of girls, as much fun as this can be. Much of this comes about b/c some guys can't get the girl they want (see above point about why people get into game), and rather than admit this failure to themselves they convince themselves they've made an enlightened choice. Some of this is written by guys who made bad choices and then got divorce raped. But of course marrying the wrong woman is a bad idea. I have a large group of college friends who were all smart and well-adjusted, and all of them married in their late 20s, except for myself and one other guy, and all are still happily married and most now have children they love. The other guy from this group of friends who didn't get married had an obvious flaw -- he is super short. That should tell you something...

Post: #128

I've always laughed at this beloved Dark triad as some kind of magic combo in the game. That's nothing but mental rationalization of the certain attitudes that men would want to be true.

Alpha/beta dichotomy is also full of shit cause nobody actually knows what's what and how to distinguish one from the other. Just another theory surprisingly very popular in this manosphere/game space which is supposed to be the community of rational males.

I'd be easier to point out game concepts that are actually true and work universally. For example the impact of social proof which is simply accurate everywhere or importance of leading the interaction. That's a good idea for a thread.

Post: #129

(08-31-2015 06:04 AM)XXL Wrote:  Alpha/beta dichotomy is also full of shit cause nobody actually knows what's what and how to distinguish one from the other. Just another theory surprisingly very popular in this manosphere/game space which is supposed to be the community of rational males.

Yeah I think Alpha/beta is actually just 'high rank' and 'low rank'. It's mixing up cause and effect.

High ranking men naturally behave in the manner people call 'alpha', due to time limitations and being in high demand with women. Low ranking men naturally behave in the manner people call 'beta', because their time and attention is in little demand from others.

The path to 'alpha behavior' is actually through raising your rank through sustained self-improvement actions, not trying to mimic those behaviours. The latter is to believe that if you mimic Robby Williams, you'll get laid as much as him.

Post: #130

I thought Robbie Williams was gay!

Or maybe just bi; http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/4279121

Post: #131

The Dark Triad obsession is a crock of shit.

Post: #132

(08-31-2015 03:37 AM)_Cicero Wrote:  I also agree with commenters uneasy with the "marriage is for suckers" stuff. There's some truth to this, of course, but personally, I don't want to be hitting the club/bar when I'm 45, and have a constantly changing and unstable harem of girls, as much fun as this can be. Much of this comes about b/c some guys can't get the girl they want (see above point about why people get into game), and rather than admit this failure to themselves they convince themselves they've made an enlightened choice. Some of this is written by guys who made bad choices and then got divorce raped. But of course marrying the wrong woman is a bad idea. I have a large group of college friends who were all smart and well-adjusted, and all of them married in their late 20s, except for myself and one other guy, and all are still happily married and most now have children they love. The other guy from this group of friends who didn't get married had an obvious flaw -- he is super short. That should tell you something...

Wait till you reach your forties and come back to us.

WIA

Post: #133

(09-01-2015 11:42 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  The Dark Triad obsession is a crock of shit.

Dark Triad...game buzzword de jour

Post: #134

(08-31-2015 06:04 AM)XXL Wrote:  I've always laughed at this beloved Dark triad as some kind of magic combo in the game. That's nothing but mental rationalization of the certain attitudes that men would want to be true.

Alpha/beta dichotomy is also full of shit cause nobody actually knows what's what and how to distinguish one from the other. Just another theory surprisingly very popular in this manosphere/game space which is supposed to be the community of rational males.

I'd be easier to point out game concepts that are actually true and work universally. For example the impact of social proof which is simply accurate everywhere or importance of leading the interaction. That's a good idea for a thread.

It hasn't been actualized to its full potential, but it has its place. The alpha/beta dichotomy doesn't make sense without a full, studied application across sociological lines, which the manosphere doesn't have the capacity to do on it's own without teams of anthropologists and psychologists.

Most of what is done here that's found to be workable techniques is field application by success and failure.

Post: #135

(08-31-2015 01:22 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  The idea that sex comes from something you say.

Scammers like RSD love to spread this, as do the rest of the PUA industry, because it allows them to monetize arbitrary content easier. It allows them to turn their very words into dollars.

Sex primarily comes from what you are and what you do. The minutia of the talking aspect isn't that important, so long as the general requirements are met (incidental demonstration of attractive traits, good rapport building).

This is why folks like RSD are true scammers, in that they just want to trick money out of people without helping them. If they truly wanted to help them, they'd devote at least 50% of their material to self-improvement, instead of lying about the importance of words. They are bad people.

Have you ever actually watched an RSD video? To my knowledge, none of their instructors have ever said anything to this effect. If anything I would expect the opposite criticism of them, since they teach that you can do pretty much whatever you want as long you're confident and outcome-independent. You seem to be making a harsh judgment from a position of ignorance.

Most of RSD's core teachings are solid; their real problem is that they constantly produce new clickbait content which just distracts from the foundation.

Post: #136

(09-01-2015 01:00 PM)Passive Menis Wrote:  Have you ever actually watched an RSD video? To my knowledge, none of their instructors have ever said anything to this effect, and Tyler and Julien frequently stress that what you say is much less than important than how you say it. You seem to be making a harsh judgment from a position of ignorance.

Most of RSD's core teachings are solid; their real problem is that they constantly produce new clickbait content which just distracts from the foundation.

No, the problem is that they ever existed. Their foundation is lies and scamming and making money of young men's hopes whilst leading them away from actual self-improvement, cutting them short of years of potential happiness. Tyler is an immoral sociopathic scumbag, preaching his "million dollar mouthpiece" shit and his infamous "looks and money don't even help a little bit" lies. And I'm certainly not going to support their existence by linking in those vids as rebuttal, sorry to disappoint you. In fact I once had an exchange with Tyler in the comments section of one of the RSD videos, and his responses confirmed to me he was a straight up sociopath with severe ego problems.

So fuck off RSD troll. You won't poison any young minds here.

Post: #137

(08-31-2015 06:20 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  The path to 'alpha behavior' is actually through raising your rank through sustained self-improvement actions, not trying to mimic those behaviours.

Someone forward that to the RSD (Real Social Dorknamics) guys . . .

Post: #138

(09-01-2015 01:00 PM)Passive Menis Wrote:  Have you ever actually watched an RSD video? To my knowledge, none of their instructors have ever said anything to this effect. If anything I would expect the opposite criticism of them, since they teach that you can do pretty much whatever you want as long you're confident and outcome-independent. You seem to be making a harsh judgment from a position of ignorance..

Seems like RSD teaches short-term game, like mass approaching to temporarily boost confidence levels; this forum (i.e. normal mature, calibrated men) teach long-term 'game', really improvement/Personal evolution/Character.

Post: #139

On the looks thing,Rollo Tomassi at Rational male said it best. Basically girls in their physical prime ,early to mid twenties will prefer the hot guy ,even one who isn't screaming ''Alpha''. Roosh did a video similar about ''do muscles matter'' which confirms a similar statement. It's very easy for guys to say game matters the most ,but with the increased social retardation,feminism and tinder ,looks might end up winning out,at least in terms of how they are weighted compared to other things like status and game. A hot guy can work of IOI's more than a average looking guy with great game. While the later may be able to banter ,get the kiss and bang ,he'll still be putting in a lot more work than the former.



One huge game or red pill belief I disagree with is the superiority of the law of abundance. Roosh has also talked about this a bit with his experience in Estonia and a girl in Brazil. While getting consistently laid with many beautiful women is a result of this law,it's impossible to control it's environment. Even in the west I've known guys who've been with diamonds in the rough and really cannot emulate it's success after playing the game for years at a time. Oneitis is horrible ,but the complete opposite that ''all women are the same '' is a bad message as well. Not everything one does can be completely under ones control at any given moment. I've met hotter and more appealing girls through social circles than I would have if I just rolled solo or with a wing .


That ones game is best improved in the harshest environments for getting laid with beautiful women . People often have said the worst environments have bred the best players such as Roosh and Mystery. While this may be true,for us younger players a certain amount of velocity is a HUGE advantage when it comes to having the right mood in social settings as well as keeping up a certain level of pressure after being successful. I'm in central Europe but originally from the states and I can say with absolute certainty that I wouldn't have the sense of fearlessness or access to encouragement as well as masculine men to form friendships with that I would if I never left.

Post: #140

(09-01-2015 01:25 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 01:00 PM)Passive Menis Wrote:  Have you ever actually watched an RSD video? To my knowledge, none of their instructors have ever said anything to this effect, and Tyler and Julien frequently stress that what you say is much less than important than how you say it. You seem to be making a harsh judgment from a position of ignorance.

Most of RSD's core teachings are solid; their real problem is that they constantly produce new clickbait content which just distracts from the foundation.

No, the problem is that they ever existed. Their foundation is lies and scamming and making money of young men's hopes whilst leading them away from actual self-improvement, cutting them short of years of potential happiness. Tyler is an immoral sociopathic scumbag, preaching his "million dollar mouthpiece" shit and his infamous "looks and money don't even help a little bit" lies. And I'm certainly not going to support their existence by linking in those vids as rebuttal, sorry to disappoint you. In fact I once had an exchange with Tyler in the comments section of one of the RSD videos, and his responses confirmed to me he was a straight up sociopath with severe ego problems.

So fuck off RSD troll. You won't poison any young minds here.

Funny, I watched Tyler's 'looks don't matter" speech a few days ago. He does say that it will be a longer road for the guys with no looks, but that game is everything and looks don't matter, he doesn't say that looks don't help a little bit.

Women like handsome men, this shouldn't be earth shattering news. I do think the RSD guys have some game, but it is mostly gaming young thirsty guys out of their money.

Post: #141

(09-01-2015 01:25 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 01:00 PM)Passive Menis Wrote:  Have you ever actually watched an RSD video? To my knowledge, none of their instructors have ever said anything to this effect, and Tyler and Julien frequently stress that what you say is much less than important than how you say it. You seem to be making a harsh judgment from a position of ignorance.

Most of RSD's core teachings are solid; their real problem is that they constantly produce new clickbait content which just distracts from the foundation.

No, the problem is that they ever existed. Their foundation is lies and scamming and making money of young men's hopes whilst leading them away from actual self-improvement, cutting them short of years of potential happiness. Tyler is an immoral sociopathic scumbag, preaching his "million dollar mouthpiece" shit and his infamous "looks and money don't even help a little bit" lies. And I'm certainly not going to support their existence by linking in those vids as rebuttal, sorry to disappoint you. In fact I once had an exchange with Tyler in the comments section of one of the RSD videos, and his responses confirmed to me he was a straight up sociopath with severe ego problems.

So fuck off RSD troll. You won't poison any young minds here.

Calm down. Did Tyler AMOG you or something? I was under the impression that this was a forum for mature men capable of having calm and rational discussion without reacting emotionally to any disagreement (the distinctive trait of women and leftists).

I'm not an "RSD troll", and I agree that their denial of the importance of looks and status is unhelpful. I'm merely pointing out that your specific criticism of them is baseless. The fact that you refuse to provide evidence for your claim (as if linking to a single video would actually make a difference) only strengthens my argument.

Post: #142

I disagree with the idea that game generalities are absolute truths. Too often female tendencies are promoted as gospel that leave no room for gradients or exceptions to the rule. This leads to too many guys trying to unlock some "formula" rather than using the general principles to enhance the power of their own intuitions.

Post: #143

What many fail to understand is that you become better at game as you do more of it. I know this seems obvious, but the implication of this are that you should not keep doing the same things as you did at first. You wouldn't keep benching 135 as your max when you can bench 225. Thus, many game principles are useful to newbies to get their head straight, but they are not gospel. Yes you can buy girls drinks, yes you can give direct compliments, yes you can be imperfect, yes you can introduce yourself first, yes you can use emoticons in texts, etc.

Once you're better, you can break the so-called rules (but not all of them, of course). Additionally, gaming girls should be fun; if you treat it as a job (and for some in the community it is their job), then I'd say your social calibration is way off.

Post: #144

(09-03-2015 05:13 PM)Menace Wrote:  . . . gaming girls should be fun; if you treat it as a job (and for some in the community it is their job), then I'd say your social calibration is way off.

Trouble is, significant aspects of the game are not fun; for instance, even for an experienced player, logistics aren't fun. Even a skilled player, as Roosh himself pointed out the DC tour, knows that "approaching girls is hard" but required due to the bad ratio in the west.

If gaming were really all fun, there would be much more competition; most guys (ie. 'betas') aren't even approaching because of the courage / psychological strength required to deal with uncertainty, getting blown out of sets, flaking, etc., that is inherently part of game.

Fun would be disease free 8/9/10 level prostitutes that are $1 a night; cold approaching the American spoiled brat-girls out there isn't fun, at least not to me, though no doubt it has its own rewards and builds our character in the long-run.

Post: #145

(09-03-2015 07:29 PM)scrambled Wrote:  

(09-03-2015 05:13 PM)Menace Wrote:  . . . gaming girls should be fun; if you treat it as a job (and for some in the community it is their job), then I'd say your social calibration is way off.

Trouble is, significant aspects of the game are not fun; for instance, even for an experienced player, logistics aren't fun. Even a skilled player, as Roosh himself pointed out the DC tour, knows that "approaching girls is hard" but required due to the bad ratio in the west.

If gaming were really all fun, there would be much more competition; most guys (ie. 'betas') aren't even approaching because of the courage / psychological strength required to deal with uncertainty, getting blown out of sets, flaking, etc., that is inherently part of game.

Fun would be disease free 8/9/10 level prostitutes that are $1 a night; cold approaching the American spoiled brat-girls out there isn't fun, at least not to me, though no doubt it has its own rewards and builds our character in the long-run.

I think you're missing the point.

Post: #146

(09-03-2015 01:41 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  I disagree with the idea that game generalities are absolute truths. Too often female tendencies are promoted as gospel that leave no room for gradients or exceptions to the rule. This leads to too many guys trying to unlock some "formula" rather than using the general principles to enhance the power of their own intuitions.

Real.

You brought up a good point I've been wanting to talk about.

People don't realize that game, in a way, is comparable to a social science. Not a hard science.

I'm not saying game is a science in itself, but it's guided by observable truths. I mean, boil it down and it's just rationally-developed socialization. It's like going out and learning to talk to people while being guided by a mix between psychology, evolutionary biology, and sociology.

But, just like in the social sciences, too many people get caught up in trying to quantify it like a hard science. The fact is people--all people--have a degree of unpredictability. Now, women are more predictable by far as a gender, but they are human beings, and human behavior cannot be broken down into "iron cast" controls.

Not trying to derail this thread into some Deep Forum shit, but the political science identity crisis of the 70's reflects this. The arguments have already been had in regards to the social sciences, and we would do well to consider them. (Read "Clouds, Clocks, and the Study of Politics" to see more of what I mean.)

The solution is the realization that the generalizations of game are just plastic controls. They exist, they are everywhere, they are useful, and they are plastic--they don't explain even close to everything. Game is a performance informed by these generalizations, and no formula on Earth is going to get a player 100% success. The nature of game--of people--makes it impossible.

That's like saying a boxer can study the movements and bad habits of his opponent and be guaranteed to win 100% of the time. Sure, he's informed by truths that will help him win, but it's impossible to account for every potential outcome. Sometimes, you're just gonna get fucking rocked. The sweet science has no formulas, and neither does game.

So I share your point of view Papaya.

Post: #147

Game Concepts I Think Are Wrong Or Unhelpful

I disagree with the alpha/beta being based on how many girls you bang. If that what determines whether you are alpha or not then a lot of extremely successful, well off guys are beta while some unemployed, drug addicts are alphas.

I disagree that "beta" traits, in general, are bad. Some beta traits are bad, like not asserting yourself, while other are neutral and may even be good.

I think most PUA lines are scripts are a waste of time. It is good to be playful, joke and tease, but if you are spending time memorizing PUA lines and routines, you are trying too hard.

I don't like that most PUA companies blame the man if something goes bad in an interaction. Bottom line, no matter how amazing you are, many, if not most, women still won't like you. In fact, if PUA companies don't convince that something is wrong with you, how will they make money?

I don't like how demographics and location are downplayed, if not totally overlooked, by many PUA companies. If you approach groups of girls that are predisposed to liking a guy like you and live in locations where there are a lot of groups are girls that are predisposed to liking a guy like you, you will get further ahead. This too, PUA companies downplay.

Text game is hugely overrated. If a girl doesn't like you, sending funny texts isn't going to change her mind. Be midly interesting, don't text too much and ask for the date after four and five texts and that's all that's needed, if she likes you.

I don't think you need to pay thousands of dollars for a bootcamp to get better; it is largely ineffective because approaching and good conversation skills are based on habit. Habits that you aren't going to learn in a weekend.

I disagree with "If she rejects you, it is her loss." I've rejected girls in the past and it is usually because I wasn't attracted to her, she did something I did not like, I did not think she was a match for me, I was seeing someone else or she wasn't advancing my relationship goals (e.g. taking too long to put out). I assume it is the same when most women reject me. This doesn't mean you should be sad about it though.

To be honest, if you live in a city where you need a lot of "game" to get laid then you need to move somewhere else.

Game Concepts I Think Are Right Or Helpful

Approaching is paramount

Being good looking is very advantageous. Dress well and go to the gym. Some PUA companies say that looks don't matter; they're wrong. This is not to say that you won't be successful if you are not good looking.

Being high status is hugely helpful. In fact, if you were famous, girls would approach you. All you would have to do is not mess things up.

Leading the interaction and standing up for yourself is essential

Setting you dates up with the purpose of getting laid is key

Having some interesting hobbies is very helpful

Post: #148

(09-04-2015 07:07 AM)therealpoder Wrote:  Game Concepts I Think Are Wrong Or Unhelpful

^^^ More wisdom above than the entire DVD collection of RSD, combined.

Post: #149

(09-01-2015 04:30 PM)Passive Menis Wrote:  Calm down. Did Tyler AMOG you or something? I was under the impression that this was a forum for mature men capable of having calm and rational discussion without reacting emotionally to any disagreement (the distinctive trait of women and leftists).

I'm not an "RSD troll", and I agree that their denial of the importance of looks and status is unhelpful. I'm merely pointing out that your specific criticism of them is baseless. The fact that you refuse to provide evidence for your claim (as if linking to a single video would actually make a difference) only strengthens my argument.

Well it seems that whenever someone criticizes RSD, RSD zombies seem to ooze out of the floor-boards of the forum. I think they come from men wasting several K on their bootcamp scams, and being unable to swallow their pride enough to admit they wasted their money. None of them have survived so far. I'm not going to refute RSD every time this happens, like I would a new fresh point of view I disagree with. I'm sure you can search for many other old threads on the topic.

And yes, Scrambled, what Realpoder just posted was better than what Retarded Scamming Dipshits can offer, and it was free. He gets a rep.

Post: #150

Quote:I think you're missing the point.

Fair enough. Based on how you define the terms, the original post could be taken more than one way though.