(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

I don't really get a dip in energy when I'm eating oatmeal, farro, waxy maize or brown/black rice.

(12-24-2018 09:57 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

By clean carbs he means the opposite of what you followed up with. None of the over-processed white rice, white bread, et al that's pumped full of crap to make it sweeter.

Wholegrain bread, brown or black rice, oats and similar types of high quality carbs.

Basically if you eat things like white rice, most pasta, white bread and the like you're going to get the sugar high and then crash, it's just the way they work by spiking the system hard with quick release crap.

I'm happy that my Christmas included a solid gym session though I had to skip the HIIT session at the end as they were closing early and I procrastinated before heading in!

Still, since my little keep it honest I've been really solid. Have now lost 9kg since I started eating better and a bit of exercise, have lost 2kg in the last 3 weeks since I started adding in a solid weights regime. I've been out of it so long I'm actually getting the noobie strength gains while cutting though I've pretty much hit the plateau area now where it will be very hard to increase the strength while cutting like I am.

Have two and a half more months to train solidly and then hopefully another month after that as well where I can routine it but not certain yet, so still targeting losing another 9kg in that time which should be very doable and hopefully leave a bit of time for some caloric neutral strength gains. Size I don't need nor want, pretty much happy with my the overall size just not the composition!

Thats awesome progress. Keep it up JBC!

I’ve been piecing together a fitness regimen for the last few months, finally seems to be in full swing. Free weights and calisthenics, martial arts training, cardio, the works. Trying to keep my body consistently busy, building, a daily duty to become a better man. Starting to see the glimmer of actual discipline (Just picked up ‘Can’t Hurt Me’ so motivation should be good).

Diet is stellar, disregarding the extra free day for the holidays. Tightening it up will hopefully burn off that stubborn belly fat. Started off as a Big Boy, finally human sized again - just need to push past to that proverbial finish line.

Good luck in the New Year gentlemen!

It's crazy how a workout of only doing a ton of different squat sets feels more fulfilling than any type of upper body workout

(12-26-2018 03:57 PM)Repo Wrote:  It's crazy how a workout of only doing a ton of different squat sets feels more fulfilling than any type of upper body workout

Did leg day today and it genuinely feels at the end of the weights like I feel after my weights and HIIT session on the push and pull days.

Doing squats(couple of varieties), lunges, Romanian deads, press, curls and calf raises and it just hits so hard.

Leg day is a real love/hate relationship!

(12-25-2018 06:32 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:57 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

By clean carbs he means the opposite of what you followed up with. None of the over-processed white rice, white bread, et al that's pumped full of crap to make it sweeter.

Wholegrain bread, brown or black rice, oats and similar types of high quality carbs.

Basically if you eat things like white rice, most pasta, white bread and the like you're going to get the sugar high and then crash, it's just the way they work by spiking the system hard with quick release crap.

Whole grain bread has the same glycemic index of white bread probably 5% less there is no difference, the same for brown rice oats and stuff like that. They are all with HIGH glycemic index.

BB and PL who take these high glicemix index foods is because they are looking for a huge insulin release and IG-F1.

^ you're not correct, though. These foods do not have the same GI rating. For example: most basic short-grain white rice is the highest among rices around ~100 on the GI rating where even the highest GI rated brown rice on the database is only ~80. Long-grain brown rice has far lower GI rating on average (around ~50). Long grain white rice is also relatively low.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php

On contrary to your theory - BB and PL try to eat whole grain lower-GI carbs so that they can intake carbs that are not so quickly processed by the body and possibly wasted or turned to fat (unless pre or post workout).

That said, I don't know anyone in fitness who preaches brown rice over white rice, but long-grain is the best option in my opinion either way.

I always get that white cilantro-lime rice in my chipotle burritos. Shit is good.

Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

Yes you can make gains on a deficit. Usually it will be because of central nervous system adaptations, but you may see some fat loss and muscle gain IF you're eating right.

If you want to put on weight, you've got to eat a surplus. It's worth reading through Strikeback's excellent posts in this thread to see his approch to becoming a jacked Asian dudebro.

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

If you want to be bigger you need to eat. Plain and simple. Can't gain weight/size if you aren't eating in caloric surplus.

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

Something like this happened to me during these last few weeks. It seems that I ate mainly low carb, high protein food (only thing available in home) and I am seeing weekly slight weight loss and weekly gains on practically all my lifts.
The thing is, I was supposed to be on slow bulk (max gain of 250 grams of body mass per week) and not on some kind of cutting.
I will introduce again milk in my diet and that will add some calories and protein. I don't have much appetite because of accumulated stress so I cannot stuff myself really.

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

I'll go against the grain here and tell you not to fall into the 'eat more' trap. I've done it before and I've gained size and strength fast but looked and felt fat. I'm sure you're eating enough, most people are. We aren't bodybuilders having to eat 10000 calories a day, we just want to be fit, be strong and look good. Bulking up does only one of those things.

Hypertrophy (for me) comes best with higher reps (10-12) and less rest between sets (1 minute). Going for low reps does nothing for me anymore, I'm past chasing that 300lb bench press and still looking shit at the end of it.

I've finally arrived at a nice balance with my program; heavy compounds with a bit of isolation work mixed in to get the 'look'. If I doubled my calories I know I'd start breaking records in the gym, but I'd kick myself next time I'm on the beach.

If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

^ I'm with Zatara. You're only getting older. Just tough it out for a while and get the weight you want. I gained 7kg in 2018 and now I'm cruising at a comfortable size with surprisingly decent body fat.

I wanna again another 10kg and then focus on just fixing small shit. That's long-term though. Gaining 10kg in a year would have me worried about my joints.

Strength is not perfectly correlated with muscle mass. There's a huge central nervous system factor, as well as things like joint size/robustness, bone length (think lever ratios), and ligament/tendon attachment points. Basically, there's a huge genetic basis for strength, just as there is for other traits like height and intelligence. Some guys are able to produce a lot more force than others with the same or less amount of lean muscle mass.

Case in point, picture below. Cailer Woolam and Brian Shaw. The best deadlifter in the world and the world's strongest man. Shaw weighs almost twice what Woolam does and has an enormous muscle mass advantage, but their deadlifts are in the same range. I think Shaw deadlifts around 1000 lbs. while Woolam is around 950 lbs.

On the flipside, hypertrophy is also hugely genetic. Some dudes just pack on muscle much more easily than others. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be exceptionally strong, though. It's also possible to induce a high level of hypertrophy with relatively light weights (i.e. you could build a very nice physique and never squat more than 225 if you know what you're doing). A lot of lifting, especially over the long term, is about recognizing your individual genetic potential and working with it rather than against it.

(01-04-2019 08:58 AM)zatara Wrote:  If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?

@Dalaran1991, It's worth bearing in mind that your relationship with lifting/bulking changes as you get older.

I was a skinny runner when I started lifting. In my teens and twenties all I wanted was size and strength. I ate and lifted accordingly and got what I wanted. There's nothing wrong with this whatsoever. If I had my time again I'd do the same.

I'm in my 40's now and I'm more concerned with quality, performance, longevity and looking good. Hence, I'm a lot more cagey with putting on weight; it gets harder to shift as you age.

That said, you look like you can burn off calories for fun (your age and metabolism), so you might get away with eating a ton of food. I certainly did, when I was younger. The last time I tried it, not so much.

Honestly, try it for yourself. Now is the time to try stuff like this, you look like you'll have no problem rolling things back and resetting if things go awry.

If you are are struggling to eat more and can tolerate it, whole milk will do the trick. You don't have to go full-GOMAD, but it's easier to drink calories than eat them. Again, this worked for the younger Richard Turpin, the older one mostly stays away from the stuff.

EDIT: @Scorpion, that Deadlifting comparison between Brian Shaw and the lighter guy is absolutely incredible. For there to be only 50lbs difference in their lifts, despite their size differences...?! Mind-blowing.

Dalaran, what does you program look like? Btw, is Brian Shaw related to Steve Shaw (good youtube channel)?

For ex:

All last set to failure. Any exercise that could be done with either dumbbells or bar, I switch them up every 6 weeks. So for bench press I would do 6 weeks bar and 6 weeks dumbells.
I dont have a set day, I go 4 times a week and pick 2-3 groups of muscles to train for that day and do 3-4 exercises with at least 2 compound exercises.

Chest
Incline Press: 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Flat Press: 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Pec deck, 4 x 12
Chest flies, incline, flat: 3 x 12
Chest dips, 3 x 12

Lower Body
Deadlift, 5x5
Squats 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps
Weighted lunges 4-5 sets of 8-12 reps

This was what I did to get great results 4 years ago, see pictures. So I dont believe my stagnant size gain is neural adaptation since its not like Im new to this. Might just need to really eat more and forget about the abs completely. Given my lifestyle I can cut back by simply upping the cardio and 200 cal deficit.

Im also waiting for my testoterone results, should be next week. Might say a lot.

Never heard of such "non programming" approach, but it sounds interesting. Definitely not for me though, as I prefer strict programming where I know what I will do for each workout day. Currently doing powerbuilding routine and am thinking of doing The Bridge (Barbell Medicine) later.

(01-04-2019 09:38 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?

Yeah, your last paragraph is pretty much spot on. Lower bodyfat means you'll look bigger naked because of having more definition, but you'll look smaller in clothes because you'll be physically smaller. Its why, in my experience anyway, its easiest to let a slightly higher bodyfat% ride in the winter. You look bigger in clothes, and can have a more relaxed lifestyle diet/alcohol wise around Christmas, NYE, Thanksgiving etc. Not to the point of actually being fat mind you - just up to no more than 15% or so.

If your workouts are on point (as they sound to be from your other posts), and your strength is decent/improving (150% bodyweight bench is very respectable) then with all your combat sports on top of the lifting workouts you're probably just burning too many calories to gain weight. Throw an extra 1000 calories of good food a day into your diet for a month and see what happens. If you start getting fat cut down by 500cal, rinse and repeat.

Worst case scenario you put on a couple KG of fat so you then cut for a month and its gone. Its worth the experiment, given your current diet isn't resulting in gains.

(01-04-2019 09:38 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(01-04-2019 08:58 AM)zatara Wrote:  If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?

If you want to get bigger you have to work the other muscles of your body, not just your chest. From your waist, shoulders, and lack of visible lats from the front of your body, I would guess that your other lifts are lagging way behind your bench press. You have a big chest but you don't look like a strong guy to me, and it's things like the under developed waist/core that suggest that to me. Your chest is already out of proportion in my view to the rest of your musculature that can be seen from the front. I don't think that would be the case if the rest of your lifts were proportionate to your bench.