Post: #4626

(12-22-2018 07:08 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 03:38 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  Is anyone here on keto diet while training with heavy weights?

In my powerlifting gym they told me that Keto diet for heavy weights training is a bullshit for them it can't work.

I've experimented with variations on the keto diet over the past couple of years. Pure keto I found to be pretty bad for lifting. I had a lot better success with a cyclical keto diet doing two days of high carb on the weekends and strict keto during the week. That was enough to refill glycogen stores. There's also the targeted keto diet where you only consume your carbs in the pre and post-workout windows. It was decent but I preferred the cyclical carbing. That being said, if you're serious about powerlifting and want to add a good amount of size and strength, I wouldn't bother with keto at all. It's more of a weight loss/health optimization diet, it's not meant for bulking.

Only eating carbs during weekend is fine for you lifting?

Did you try a real keto with 70-80% of fat?

I'm always on keto, when I eat carbs my muscles immediately get bigger and swollen, and I get about 10-11 lbs of weight. So probably my muscles are hungry of glycogen.

Anyway I don't know why when I eat carbs (I still like them) but my mood after an initial boost then became worse during the whole day. That's one of the reason I love keto, my mood is always good.

Can muscles use fat while lifting or they only need sugar? I didn't find a certain answer to this I have read both. For some they can become keto adapted and using fat instead of sugar.

Post: #4627

(12-23-2018 10:32 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  Only eating carbs during weekend is fine for you lifting?

Did you try a real keto with 70-80% of fat?

I'm always on keto, when I eat carbs my muscles immediately get bigger and swollen, and I get about 10-11 lbs of weight. So probably my muscles are hungry of glycogen.

Anyway I don't know why when I eat carbs (I still like them) but my mood after an initial boost then became worse during the whole day. That's one of the reason I love keto, my mood is always good.

Can muscles use fat while lifting or they only need sugar? I didn't find a certain answer to this I have read both. For some they can become keto adapted and using fat instead of sugar.

Your muscles can certainly use fat for lifting. It's not like you're going to lose 50% of your strength on a keto diet. But (at least in my experience, and based on my research and the anecdotal results of many others) your performance at the high-end will invariably take somewhat of a hit. Whether this is a strength loss of 5%, 10%, 20% or greater fatigue and increased recovery time likely comes down to individual genetic factors. But it seems to be true for almost everyone who engages in heavy lifting on a keto diet. The only person I've heard claim otherwise is Dom D'Agostino, but even he claims that to achieve that level of keto adaptation takes well over six months, possibly years. I did not do strict keto for that long because I didn't like how it affected my lifting, so I mixed it up.

Basically, think of your body as an engine. It will burn two different types of fuel: fat and carbohydrates. And these two fuels have somewhat different performance profiles. The fat fuel burns extremely clean, meaning your engine will be more reliable and run longer before failing or needing maintenance. The carbohydrate fuel, on the other hand, is cheaper and offers higher performance, but at the cost of gunking up the engine noticeably faster. Being that your body is concerned primarily with performance and efficiency over longevity, it will always prefer to burn carbohydrates for fuel. They are simply a better fuel source by that metric. So if you are regularly engaging in the type of anaerobic activity that places heavy strain on muscle glycogen stores (i.e. heavy lifting) your body will obviously perform better with the fuel it prefers for that sort of task: carbohydrates. A great deal or research and anecdotal evidence supports this idea, and you will find very few serious powerlifters/bodybuilders/strength athletes who advocate strict keto for performance.

There was a really good Joe Rogan podcast a few months ago with Dr. Layne Norton and Dr. Dom D'Agostino basically debating this exact topic. Link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u93oh9kC-rU

Highly recommend that to anyone interested in this.

Post: #4628

Thanks for the video. I know Dominic D'agostino, anyway do you think he is Natural? Because if he is on roids his performance and physique don't matter with keto.

I know very well the difference between fat fuel and carbs, I read books from Mark Sisson, Robb Wolf, PD Mangan and others.

I have read also that keto can prevent muscle loss and they are good for muscle in general.

I'm on keto since 2017. I never had any performance issues in my sport but I did train MMA not lifting. MMA altough requires strength is mostly a cardio effort, for that fat fuel is perfect.

Post: #4629

He's not natural.

Post: #4630

(12-24-2018 06:00 AM)Kieran Wrote:  He's not natural.

Do you have clues?

Probably he only knows the truth....

Post: #4631

I've had the exact same experience with very low carb diets as Scorpion. Great for burning off fat, but they definitely result in a hit both in weightlifting strength and in sprint/endurance for sports or running if you stick to them for a few weeks or more.

I've come to the same conclusion of doing two high carb days to "reload" for performance as well, but I do them during the week before/around my biggest workout days rather than at the weekend. I figure thats a little better, timing wise. I don't really drink or party much at weekends regularly these days though, so its easy enough for me to stick to low carb for them. If someone is out drinking at the weekend it probably the time to carb up, since it allows dirtier cheat meals that'll go down easier with a hangover.

Post: #4632

Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

Post: #4633

(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

Post: #4634

I don't really get a dip in energy when I'm eating oatmeal, farro, waxy maize or brown/black rice.

Post: #4635

(12-24-2018 09:57 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

By clean carbs he means the opposite of what you followed up with. None of the over-processed white rice, white bread, et al that's pumped full of crap to make it sweeter.

Wholegrain bread, brown or black rice, oats and similar types of high quality carbs.

Basically if you eat things like white rice, most pasta, white bread and the like you're going to get the sugar high and then crash, it's just the way they work by spiking the system hard with quick release crap.

I'm happy that my Christmas included a solid gym session though I had to skip the HIIT session at the end as they were closing early and I procrastinated before heading in!

Still, since my little keep it honest I've been really solid. Have now lost 9kg since I started eating better and a bit of exercise, have lost 2kg in the last 3 weeks since I started adding in a solid weights regime. I've been out of it so long I'm actually getting the noobie strength gains while cutting though I've pretty much hit the plateau area now where it will be very hard to increase the strength while cutting like I am.

Have two and a half more months to train solidly and then hopefully another month after that as well where I can routine it but not certain yet, so still targeting losing another 9kg in that time which should be very doable and hopefully leave a bit of time for some caloric neutral strength gains. Size I don't need nor want, pretty much happy with my the overall size just not the composition!

Post: #4636

Thats awesome progress. Keep it up JBC!

Post: #4637

I’ve been piecing together a fitness regimen for the last few months, finally seems to be in full swing. Free weights and calisthenics, martial arts training, cardio, the works. Trying to keep my body consistently busy, building, a daily duty to become a better man. Starting to see the glimmer of actual discipline (Just picked up ‘Can’t Hurt Me’ so motivation should be good).

Diet is stellar, disregarding the extra free day for the holidays. Tightening it up will hopefully burn off that stubborn belly fat. Started off as a Big Boy, finally human sized again - just need to push past to that proverbial finish line.

Good luck in the New Year gentlemen!

Post: #4638

It's crazy how a workout of only doing a ton of different squat sets feels more fulfilling than any type of upper body workout

Post: #4639

(12-26-2018 03:57 PM)Repo Wrote:  It's crazy how a workout of only doing a ton of different squat sets feels more fulfilling than any type of upper body workout

Did leg day today and it genuinely feels at the end of the weights like I feel after my weights and HIIT session on the push and pull days.

Doing squats(couple of varieties), lunges, Romanian deads, press, curls and calf raises and it just hits so hard.

Leg day is a real love/hate relationship!

Post: #4640

(12-25-2018 06:32 AM)JimBobsCooters Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:57 AM)ìlikegirls Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 08:00 AM)Fortis Wrote:  Carbs do "fill out" your physique. There's no disputing it. Keto works for some but not for others. I've never had issues losing fat so never felt the need to go full-on keto. I naturally gravitate to moderate fat diets anyway. I like my milk kefir, eggs and un-salted butter. However, when I'm really trying to grow I often go higher carb. I find that if your carb sources are clean you don't get crashy, especially if you time the meals properly.

What do you mean with "getting crashy"?

As for clean carbs what do you mean? High glycemic index carbs (bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, sugar) has approx the same effect. I think their main effect in bulking phase is that they increase insulin.

The white bread has an higher glycemic index than sugar. Rice has approx the same.

I enjoy eating this stuff but then I got tired and with a bad mood for the whole day. I don't have any metabolic issues.

By clean carbs he means the opposite of what you followed up with. None of the over-processed white rice, white bread, et al that's pumped full of crap to make it sweeter.

Wholegrain bread, brown or black rice, oats and similar types of high quality carbs.

Basically if you eat things like white rice, most pasta, white bread and the like you're going to get the sugar high and then crash, it's just the way they work by spiking the system hard with quick release crap.

Whole grain bread has the same glycemic index of white bread probably 5% less there is no difference, the same for brown rice oats and stuff like that. They are all with HIGH glycemic index.

BB and PL who take these high glicemix index foods is because they are looking for a huge insulin release and IG-F1.

Post: #4641

^ you're not correct, though. These foods do not have the same GI rating. For example: most basic short-grain white rice is the highest among rices around ~100 on the GI rating where even the highest GI rated brown rice on the database is only ~80. Long-grain brown rice has far lower GI rating on average (around ~50). Long grain white rice is also relatively low.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php

On contrary to your theory - BB and PL try to eat whole grain lower-GI carbs so that they can intake carbs that are not so quickly processed by the body and possibly wasted or turned to fat (unless pre or post workout).

That said, I don't know anyone in fitness who preaches brown rice over white rice, but long-grain is the best option in my opinion either way.

I always get that white cilantro-lime rice in my chipotle burritos. Shit is good.

Post: #4642

Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

Post: #4643

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

Yes you can make gains on a deficit. Usually it will be because of central nervous system adaptations, but you may see some fat loss and muscle gain IF you're eating right.

If you want to put on weight, you've got to eat a surplus. It's worth reading through Strikeback's excellent posts in this thread to see his approch to becoming a jacked Asian dudebro.

Post: #4644

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

If you want to be bigger you need to eat. Plain and simple. Can't gain weight/size if you aren't eating in caloric surplus.

Post: #4645

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

Something like this happened to me during these last few weeks. It seems that I ate mainly low carb, high protein food (only thing available in home) and I am seeing weekly slight weight loss and weekly gains on practically all my lifts.
The thing is, I was supposed to be on slow bulk (max gain of 250 grams of body mass per week) and not on some kind of cutting.
I will introduce again milk in my diet and that will add some calories and protein. I don't have much appetite because of accumulated stress so I cannot stuff myself really.

Post: #4646

(01-03-2019 05:39 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Can somebody help me out?

I love the gym like everyone, always been very active. For the last 3 months ive been going 4 times a week and progress has been very steady, im adding weight every session. I can now bench press 150% my body weight in a 3 RM.

However, even though im getting stronger, im not seeing a lot of muscle gain. It makes no sense. If im getting stronger, then i should be getting bigger.

Started tracking my macros today and holy shit im on a deficit of like 200 calories and at least 30g of protein. I think I only gained like 2 kg over the last 4 years. But this makes no sense. If im at a caloric deficit shouldn't i be unable to increase strength?

I don't think my problem is the gym. I got a very good base training since young and ive always been buffed. Im following a hypertrophy program with mostly the 7 main compound exercises, plus isolator for my pecs. But im not getting bigger despite getting stronger.

Should i just make sure to eat more, in particular protein?

I'll go against the grain here and tell you not to fall into the 'eat more' trap. I've done it before and I've gained size and strength fast but looked and felt fat. I'm sure you're eating enough, most people are. We aren't bodybuilders having to eat 10000 calories a day, we just want to be fit, be strong and look good. Bulking up does only one of those things.

Hypertrophy (for me) comes best with higher reps (10-12) and less rest between sets (1 minute). Going for low reps does nothing for me anymore, I'm past chasing that 300lb bench press and still looking shit at the end of it.

I've finally arrived at a nice balance with my program; heavy compounds with a bit of isolation work mixed in to get the 'look'. If I doubled my calories I know I'd start breaking records in the gym, but I'd kick myself next time I'm on the beach.

Post: #4647

If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

Post: #4648

^ I'm with Zatara. You're only getting older. Just tough it out for a while and get the weight you want. I gained 7kg in 2018 and now I'm cruising at a comfortable size with surprisingly decent body fat.

I wanna again another 10kg and then focus on just fixing small shit. That's long-term though. Gaining 10kg in a year would have me worried about my joints.

Post: #4649

Strength is not perfectly correlated with muscle mass. There's a huge central nervous system factor, as well as things like joint size/robustness, bone length (think lever ratios), and ligament/tendon attachment points. Basically, there's a huge genetic basis for strength, just as there is for other traits like height and intelligence. Some guys are able to produce a lot more force than others with the same or less amount of lean muscle mass.

Case in point, picture below. Cailer Woolam and Brian Shaw. The best deadlifter in the world and the world's strongest man. Shaw weighs almost twice what Woolam does and has an enormous muscle mass advantage, but their deadlifts are in the same range. I think Shaw deadlifts around 1000 lbs. while Woolam is around 950 lbs.

On the flipside, hypertrophy is also hugely genetic. Some dudes just pack on muscle much more easily than others. That doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be exceptionally strong, though. It's also possible to induce a high level of hypertrophy with relatively light weights (i.e. you could build a very nice physique and never squat more than 225 if you know what you're doing). A lot of lifting, especially over the long term, is about recognizing your individual genetic potential and working with it rather than against it.

Post: #4650

(01-04-2019 08:58 AM)zatara Wrote:  If you've only gained 2KG over 4 years of decent training then you just flat out need to eat a lot more. Get some high calorie, high protein, easy to eat food into your diet. Nuts are a pretty easy one, but you've lots of options - pick whatever you actually like the taste of.

Even if you put on a couple KG of fat its not a huge deal, you can lose that in a month/6 week cut whenever you want. Better to eat a lot for a year, put on say 8KG and have to subsequently lose 2KG of fat, than to just keep spinning your wheels not putting on any weight as you've done for the past few years.

Yeah I do ALOT of combat sports and martial arts so that counts as extra cardio that prevents me from gaining weight. For a long time it was a blessing since it kept me reasonably ripped with a six packs.

It's just that recently I decided I want to get a thicker chest and up my program to get that goal. I stick to a hypertrophy program with 8-12 reps x 4-5 sets, with 1min rest. Gym wise Im confident that Im doing things right, so it frustrates a bit that Im not getting bigger.

Adding to this is the feeling that I'm look fatter but not bigger than 4 years ago. Attached is my before (left) and after (right), taken 4 years ago and yesterday, same gym.

As you can see I was A LOT leaner back then and I weight 57 kg. Now I'm stronger and gained 2kg but I felt like I didnt gain any mass, worse I lost my 6 packs (not that I care)

Is it just a question of you look more ripped at lower bodyfat, so better muscle definition, vs at higher bodyfat even though you actually gained a bit of size?