Chaosandpain Wrote:In Park’s words: ” I didn’t have a favorite workout routine. I have done every routine and every exercise in the book, but like most advanced trainers, I have found what exercises and what routines give me the best results. What is good for one man isn’t necessarily good for somebody else. My bodyweight fluctuated between 230 and 245 during those years.” [Kline]

Dude was just being interviewed for a muscle magazine of the day. No doubt he just threw that example out for anybody who wanted something to try.

@Fortis

I heard about this Doggcrap (awful name for marketing btw) but I don't know what is the deal about. What is it that makes it so brutal and effective?

Btw, regarding workout above, maybe cut it in two days, like his A/B routine would be better, I agree with you there.

(03-07-2019 01:57 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  What is it that makes it so brutal and effective?

High rep, rest pause sets. This workout is built around stimulating hypertrophy and keeping your muscles in a fatigued state. Fortis correct me if I'm wrong.

(03-06-2019 03:56 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

Quote:Reg Park
Squat 5x5
Front Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Deadlift 5x5
Behind The Neck Press 5x5
Barbell Curl 5x5
Skull Crushers 5x8
Standing Calf Raises 5x25

I have used this method of training.
b.) ...are on gear - Reg was on tren, if I remember correctly

Two things: Park wasn't doing all of this 5x5. He had a 5x5 system where you did two warmup sets of 5, then 3x5 with a heavy weight. Second, he definitely wasn't on tren, as that didn't become commercially available until the 1970s. Most of Park's career happened before the widespread use of anabolic steroids- most of which started with power athletes (e.g. Olympic weightlifters).

I mentioned this on previous page; 5x5 name is actually a unintended diversion and a lot of people are surprised when they discover it is actually 3x5 (like SS) with 2 warmup sets before. The name 5x5 stick forever with it but it is definitely not the same as actual 5x5 set x rep system like SL is.

Truth Teller, could really a full natty run this routine? Maybe a heavy medium light system would be better instead of doing it all three days in a week with increasing weight each time.

Honestly rep schemes mean nothing without a % or RPE tied to them. That Reg Park workout is 365 total reps in one workout, but how much effort? If it's 365 reps at RPE5 for each set then it's easy work. In a nut shell: 5 sets of 5 reps is only hard if its heavy ass weight (for you).

(03-07-2019 05:19 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I mentioned this on previous page; 5x5 name is actually a unintended diversion and a lot of people are surprised when they discover it is actually 3x5 (like SS) with 2 warmup sets before. The name 5x5 stick forever with it but it is definitely not the same as actual 5x5 set x rep system like SL is.

Truth Teller, could really a full natty run this routine? Maybe a heavy medium light system would be better instead of doing it all three days in a week with increasing weight each time.

If you're in your early-mid 20s, don't have a lot of life stress, etc., you can probably run it for a bit. I wouldn't start with it, though. There's a reason why it's the third phase of Park's training. You build up to a workout like that. It's also worth noting that Park had quite the diet: a lot of high-quality protein. On perhaps a much more interesting note, Park had a different program. It's probably better to look at this as a template for Park's training- a lot of heavy, compound lifts in low-moderate rep ranges.

Brooks Kubik (Dinosaur Training) did something similar for awhile and saw some good results, then he plateaued pretty hard once he started working longer hours/having more responsibilities/etc. To be fair about it, I don't see Park's program as all that different from Blaha's ICF program.

If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

(03-08-2019 01:14 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  If you're in your early-mid 20s, don't have a lot of life stress, etc., you can probably run it for a bit. I wouldn't start with it, though. There's a reason why it's the third phase of Park's training. You build up to a workout like that. It's also worth noting that Park had quite the diet: a lot of high-quality protein. On perhaps a much more interesting note, Park had a different program. It's probably better to look at this as a template for Park's training- a lot of heavy, compound lifts in low-moderate rep ranges.

Are you thinking of this one?

Option 3: (3x per week for advanced trainees who have great recovery abilities)

Monday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Barbell military press:  5x5
Weighted pull-ups:  5x5
Barbell squat:  5x5
Romanian deadlift:  5x5
Barbell curl:  2x5
Close-grip bench press:  2x5
Calf raise:  3x12

Wednesday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Bench press:  5x5
Barbell bent-over row:  5x5
Power clean:  5x3
Barbell deadlift:  5x5
Dumbbell curl:  2x5
Weighted dip:  2x5
Calf Raise:  3x12

Friday
Hyperextensions  3x10 (one minute breaks)
Dumbbell clean and press:  5x5
Weighted pull-up:  5x5
Barbell squat:  5x5
Dumbbell lunge:  5x5
Barbell curl:  2x5
Close-grip bench press:  2x5
Calf raise:  3x12

Take one-minute breaks in between each exercise and three-minute breaks in between each set.

Or you are thinking about this one?

Workout A
Squats 5x5
Pull Ups or Chin Ups 5x5
Bench Press or Dips 5x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Workout B
Front Squats 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Quote:If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

Thanks, I will check it out.

(03-08-2019 01:14 AM)Truth Teller Wrote:  If you're interested in these sorts of programs, take a look at John McCallum's Keys to Progress. He's got a lot of great material in there. Most of it is from the early-mid 60s. Of course, you should read critically. The "Get Big Drink" sounds quite stomach churning.

I checked it out and this is exactly stuff I like, brutal, old school workouts. Just 3 days in gym, but you give everything. Found some very interesting workouts there which might or might not be modified to run in my stage (a guy who has more and more trouble with linear progression).

Interesting link

Regarding that drink, such stuff was almost a staple in old school circles. This is basically a most natural mass gainer. Colbert said numerous times that him and his friend would "destroy" gym with their farting because of similar drinks and that was until one older lifter introduced to them pineapple. Pineapple eliminated brutal farting. God that man was so refreshingly honest and funny while giving good advice. RIP Leroy.

(03-08-2019 07:29 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  I checked it out and this is exactly stuff I like, brutal, old school workouts. Just 3 days in gym, but you give everything. Found some very interesting workouts there which might or might not be modified to run in my stage (a guy who has more and more trouble with linear progression).

Interesting link

Regarding that drink, such stuff was almost a staple in old school circles. This is basically a most natural mass gainer. Colbert said numerous times that him and his friend would "destroy" gym with their farting because of similar drinks and that was until one older lifter introduced to them pineapple. Pineapple eliminated brutal farting. God that man was so refreshingly honest and funny while giving good advice. RIP Leroy.

You definitely need the Keys to Progress book for the McCallum programs. They're not 4x8 with straight weight or anything like it. It's often something like 2x8 warmups, 1x8 all out, then a backoff for 8-10 reps.

The Park program has three phases: you start with something like this:

Squat: 5x5 (3x5 worksets)
Bench: 5x5 (3x5 worksets)
DL: 5x5 (3x5) worksets

You increase the volume from there.

At the moment I have two full body workouts and alternate between them nearly every day. I take a day off when I feel I'm overreaching.

Workout A:

Chin up 5 x 6 (once achieved I add weigth and build from 5 x 3 to 5 x 6 and then add weigth again ecc.)
Overhead press 5 x 3
Squat 3 x 5
Triceps extention 3x6
Strict biceps curl 3x6


Workout B

Bench press 5x3
Deadlif 3x3
Pendlay row 5x5
Triceps extention 3x6
Strict biceps curl 3x6

So as you can see, I'm not a fan of high reps or high exercise selection.
Some of you might think that these workouts have low volume, but bear in mind that I do some sort of pressing, pulling, leg and arm work nearly every day and the cumulative work done over a week or month/s is massive. It will put slabs of muscle on your body. This is a very high volume routine and requires that you are a) in a caloric surplus and b) having good recovery capacities.

Also you have to be careful not to push yourself too hard in the gym if you want to do this high frequency routine. Checking your ego out of the door is essential.
These 3 rep sets are done with the weights you could move 5 or 6 time, and the focus is to accumulate a high number of fast and perfectly executed, relatively hard reps throughout the week.

Zagor, that is very similar to routine I will start running tomorrow. I decided to go to basics, heavy work (mainly reps of 5), not too many exercises, A/B progression because it was that transformed my body the most in the previous months. I will be using Reg Park beginner routine, as it is very similar to two programs I have used up until 2 months ago.

Workout A
Squats 5x5
Pull Ups or Chin Ups 5x5
Bench Press or Dips 5x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10
Calf Exercise 2x15-20

Workout B
Front Squats 5x5
Barbell Rows 5x5
Standing Military Press 5x5
Deadlifts 3x5
Forearm or Grip Work 2x10

I've been lifting big ass concrete bags for workouts. I haven't been to a proper gym in ages.

Anyone else have experience lifting large construction site items or tips?

(03-07-2019 07:53 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  Honestly rep schemes mean nothing without a % or RPE tied to them. That Reg Park workout is 365 total reps in one workout, but how much effort? If it's 365 reps at RPE5 for each set then it's easy work. In a nut shell: 5 sets of 5 reps is only hard if its heavy ass weight (for you).

This is a very important point that is overlooked and misunderstood by many posters here. The intensity (RPE/%) is key, especially if you're doing a lot of volume. Volume (total number of reps at an intensity high enough) is the most important factor to drive hypertrophy and strength gains. However if the intensity is too high, the lifter will accumulate too much fatigue and will not be able to recover; the risk of injury will also become more important. If it's too low, there are not enough muscle recruitment to drive gains.

The problem with a program like stronglifts and starting strength is that at some point every set becomes RPE10 and you even fail reps, which has a deep effect on fatigue and then people start to feel burned out and hurt themselves. At that point you should move on to a program with more volume and less intensity.

You should not go all out when working out. Especially on compound exercises.

Those who are saying that if you're in your twenties you can work out more etc. than in your thirties, this is not true, you are nocebo-ing yourself. If you have been strength training intelligently for a long time, you'll actually have a higher work capacity in your thirties than in your twenties.

Everything is cyclical.

For a few months now I've been burning time by stuffing down big meals pre-workout as I had a stretch of weak and fatigued lifts. This is such a time sink as you have to wait 2-3 hours for the food to cycle and you may get lethargic if you over do it in the amount of carbs. You also have to be mindful of fat intake and the type of protein that can take very long to digest. All unnecessary.

Now I just eat 5 medjool dates and within 20-30 mins I got the carbs I need. I've listed about dates as nature's most abundant energy source (that is quick digesting) before but I got away from it after a few months of dried nasty pitted dates (get the untouched medjool with the pits as they taste much better). I'm blasting through 2 hour workouts now with just some little dates in me. It's great as I feel light and can take in more water if I need too. Also, if and when I do feel gassed then I just pop one or two more dates in the gym and my energy levels are back up.

Dates are also my post workout carb source as I just eat two post workout before a shake.

Unless I can have pasta (I'll never drop pasta, I've had my best workouts after some spaghetti and meatballs sauce, my body just takes this carb source very well for activity) I'm just sticking with dates pre-workout.

Also, if you stuff the medjool date with peanut butter it is a good snack with good fats. I learned that from a girl I was piping after she noticed I needed an energy boost post bang.

Dates are a super food, for their weight very few natural food sources in nature pack as much energy.

I've tried dates after reading about them here. Dates are legit, great fast absorbing energy source.

What advice would you guys give a newbie on how to squat and deadlift? I'm trying to to "Starting Strength" which seems so simple on paper but feel like I'm doing it all wrong. I cannot afford a personal trainer.

(03-26-2019 07:40 AM)the-dream Wrote:  What advice would you guys give a newbie on how to squat and deadlift? I'm trying to to "Starting Strength" which seems so simple on paper but feel like I'm doing it all wrong. I cannot afford a personal trainer.

Look up how to do bodyweight squats or "air squats" and do sets of 10, 20 (or 50) of them spaced out through the week for the next month or so. Pretend you are carrying weight and try not to round your lower back. Do them slow and fast.
5 sets of 15 is not a bad goal to shoot for. The more you do squatting as a movement, even without weight, the better you will get at it.

That should help with mobility and give you somewhere to start from.

For deadlifting just watch youtube videos on 'how to hip hinge' and do Pavel's mobility drills on deadlifting. He has people walk up to a wall and squat down without hitting their face or knees to the wall, and that simulates the pull of a deadlift. The DL is a very different movement from the squat and you might need to go to a gym and find somebody to teach you it.

(03-26-2019 07:40 AM)the-dream Wrote:  What advice would you guys give a newbie on how to squat and deadlift? I'm trying to to "Starting Strength" which seems so simple on paper but feel like I'm doing it all wrong. I cannot afford a personal trainer.

Search for Alan Thrall's videos about Squat and Deadlift on youtube. Comprehensive amount of information fitted into not too long videos.

(03-26-2019 07:40 AM)the-dream Wrote:  What advice would you guys give a newbie on how to squat and deadlift? I'm trying to to "Starting Strength" which seems so simple on paper but feel like I'm doing it all wrong. I cannot afford a personal trainer.

There are tons of videos online teaching the SS squat and deadlift forms. Alan Thrall has a few great videos on it. Can also look up videos with Mark Rippetoe himself.

(03-26-2019 07:40 AM)the-dream Wrote:  What advice would you guys give a newbie on how to squat and deadlift? I'm trying to to "Starting Strength" which seems so simple on paper but feel like I'm doing it all wrong. I cannot afford a personal trainer.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-46692.html
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-47904.html

Does anyone else find that overhead press is generally the least useful of the shoulder exercises? Lately, I've been doing it and I'm getting strong but I don't see much in the way of growth. I find that when I'm doing facepulls, lat raises, front raises, rack pulls and an assortment of other pull exercises that I see a lot more shoulder development.

Thoughts?

Depsite it also being called the "shoulder press" it's really a tricep dominant movement. Not a ton of delt activation especially compared to isolation excercises. You might get a little more shoulder involvement with a DB press variant, but if I were body building I don't think I would ever do an overhead barbell press. It's a great strength movement, but not a super efficient mass developer if you ask me.

Supposedly behind the neck press is much more of a shoulder builder, together with Arnold press.

Come on, don't bash the press, its one of the most badass exercises out there. It's arguably not the most optimal exercise for any head of the delts, but it sure does work every one of them, with heavy weigth. I press heavy and often and rarely do anything else for my delts are they are one of my best developed body parts. Plus it works your upper chest and triceps, which initiate the movement along with the front delt, side delt goes for the ride and you finish with yout rear delts and traps, bracing your core throughout the movement. That's a lot of muscle worked with one exercise.