Post: #1

Anyone disagree?

Something about this formulation is off to me, but I'm not sure what I find exactly wrong with it.

There's some subtle issue that I can't articulate, but the only counter example I can think of is what happens when you approach a set of girls where one chick is much more attractive than the others, but the other chicks are hot in their own right.

And even in this scenario, it's too easy to get bogged down in the standard way of thinking about game. Most cats rattle off the standard group advice and don't get to the issue that I'm driving towards.

I can't get the real life pickup situation to match with what might be wrong with the idea that tens need better game.

I guess it's easier to think if the quandary when you try to get a slump buster. This "5" is acting and reacting like she's more attractive than she actually is.

And even then, standard game theory has an answer for inflated ego...

WIA

Post: #2

I'll disagree.

Game to me is pushing for reactions in girls. Negs, lines, unique conversations, anything to get the girl to respond.

Necessary when dealing with 6's/7's.

With the higher level girls I have been dealing with lately, I have been using much less 'game' tactics, and much more natural seduction.

Being completely present, creating connections, making those connections intense and meaningful has been working much better than the silly fun that is 'game'.

But, I've also created a lifestyle and persona that is very attractive to the ladies, so I can rely on that now. Lifestyle game.

It's only been a few months where I have been only actively approaching true beauties...they respond so much better than the lesser ones. And good lord is the sex better.

Post: #3

If you are a high quality guy, getting a high quality girl should be easy. Perhaps, it might be easier to work on yourself (gym, fashion, career, etc) rather then be a low value guy looking to punch above his weight. Working on yourself to become a top guy is a better approach as it aids life all round rather then just the women aspect.

Post: #4

I'll say it before, and I'll say it again: it's not about higher level or lower level game with this. Girls of different qualities need different types of game.

For more attractive girls, preselection is king. Once you are in, you are in and it's don't-fuck-it-up game (DFIU)

Because lower quality girls have the insecurity and very real fear that they are going to get pumped and dumped, they require more comfort which comes in the form attention and playing with them via stuff like what Goldmund mentioned: negs, lines, etc.

In my experience 6-7s needs that long drawn out engagement (often with a lot of LMR- it's really just a version masturbatory behvior on the part of these girls), while 8-9 are sold on you from the get-go if you are deemed to be extremely high value. The higher level girls will fall head over heels in love with you once you are in the greenzone.

Aside from the other obvious benefits of going for more attractive girls, it's this style of game that gives me more of an incentive to practice it; I don't have the time or patience to hold a 6s hand, figuratively speaking, through the seduction. This is why I like the style of famous/high quality type game that someone like McQueen is advocating instead of grinding away at 6-7s. I'm at a point in my life where it's better to present as super high value instead of doing the normal looking guy game-ninja thing. It's the difference between Rockstar game vs. Coffee shop game.

I had to deal with a 6 last night, and I just couldn't do it after a while and kicked her out of my house.

Post: #5

(08-01-2014 02:40 PM)Goldmund Wrote:  ....

With the higher level girls I have been dealing with lately, I have been using much less 'game' tactics, and much more natural seduction.

Being completely present, creating connections, making those connections intense and meaningful has been working much better than the silly fun that is 'game'.

But, I've also created a lifestyle and persona that is very attractive to the ladies, so I can rely on that now. Lifestyle game.

It's only been a few months where I have been only actively approaching true beauties...they respond so much better than the lesser ones. And good lord is the sex better.

I guess it is similar to what OP has said, if you factor in your inner and passive Game. With higher level girls you need more of the factors that make you a man - optimization of looks, status, charisma, life experiences etc.

In a way you have to start out with a higher level of Game to begin with.

Only approaching beauties decreases the number of notches, but improves the quality. And you need sometimes a couple of dates in addition to that. It used to frustrate me a bit in the beginning when it took 2-3 dates to get the notch, but I guess that is to be expected with some.

Post: #6

Work your way to the mountain top, theres only a select few men who can bypass gaming girls of lower status and appearance and go right for the jugular of the cream of the crop. We've all had to put substantial time into it. But the time spent on improving yourself is never wasted. Sluts come and go, but your bank account, your style, your body, your experiences, and your confidence are something that remain through the droughts and the pussy monsoons.

Post: #7

Post: #8

We are at a point in history where the sexual market is configured towards giving women unlimited choice.

Men are intimidated by 8s and 9s, and they get approached less. They still get approached, and they know their value, but less than 6s and 7s. In today's sexual market, a 7 has just as many sexual options as a 9, probably even more, and hence her entitlement is matched.

In an environment of infinite choice for ALL girls, not just the upper tier, to get the girl you must be the best man in line. And to be the best man in line you must have game.

So I disagree, you need the same game for a 7 than for a 9, perhaps even more.

Post: #9

WIA - In order to pay fair homage to this, be very specific about the tiers of game. What is low level game, intermediate game and higher level game?

Post: #10

I say its like going to a high end restaurant. People dress perfect everywhere, people bringing exotic cars, hot staffs, menus you dont know, lots of wine options, many silverwares etc. Now if you are not used to those scenes, you will act unnatural.

Same for the women. Most guys act different around hot women. They can smell that by small nuances you give out. 'Hm he is not used to hang around girls like me'. Then you are out.

Acting normal is the key but it can be hard since most guys dont get enough chances to feel comfortable.
(Eg: You cant just go to expensive places to feel comfortable unless thats part of your life style)

Post: #11

Last night, I got ripping drunk with an Aussie dude.

I told him "we're gonna go out right now, find and fuck the hottest girls in the city!". This was followed by cheering.

We hit the bars, there aren't that many in town, but we lucked out because three fine-ass French girls were sitting by themselves.

I said "there they are, sir" rolled up and told them "we are all going to be friends tonight!" and started chatting, laughing, touching them.

The barstaff was dumbfounded because of the audacity. Two dudes I'm cool with there looked over and just started nodding, game recognized style. (Can't wait to tell them the story when I go back tonight).

We took the girls out of there to another club to go dancing like it was the most normal thing in the world.

That's the kind of thing I've been able to do lately. I don't even think about it as game, although, it is. It's just me going out with the mindset that I can and will do whatever I want. And I want to have fun and fuck hot women. Perfectly normal. I'm going to do it again in about 3 hours.

**Didn't fuck any of the Frenchies though, I kissed one, danced with them all, tried to get them all to kiss me at once, and at some point in the conversation I flat out said "I'm here to make love to the local Mexican population!" I was teetering on blackout drunk at this point. Grabbed a Mexican chica who spoke no English and ran my language barrier game. Blacked out completely and woke up today with the condom still on and her number and email on some paper on the bed.

Post: #12

As a microcosm, of all 6 of the numbers I got last night the only one to text me back is the sexiest one- probably in 9-ville and similar to what you'd imagine as a light-skinned fresa Tapatia with big fiery eyes from a rich neighborhood.

From my experience, the highly attractive girls are absolutely as attainable, if not more so. However, it has only worked for me with uber-confidence and absolutely no hesitation. I rarely have pre-selection or social circle working for me, as I often roll solo or sometimes with a wingman.

My rejection to lay ratio is probably the best with the 8.5-9s (and the 4s...) with severe drop in likelihood of success anywhere between. At no point is it a good ratio, but the top-tier girls respond best to my style of game, which is not top-tier but sometimes works on these kinds of girls- better than with less attractive women but are still cute. With the 4s, simple willingness to fuck them is game enough, though some will be even thirstier to reject a guy and feel like a hot girl for a moment, that to get the D.

As others have said, fewer guys approach them so 9-10s have probably less options that 7-8s. Furthermore, they are likely more confident and have the self-esteem to respond well to direct game, even well-placed compliments!

Goldmund, thanks for posting that link. That might well be the most useful thing I have found on this forum to use specifically here in Mexico. I've been banging my head against the wall speaking the best Spanish I can (which is not a high level at all), and as an English teacher it's shameful that I haven't thought of this kind of approach.

Post: #13

(08-01-2014 05:33 PM)Moma Wrote:  WIA - In order to pay fair homage to this, be very specific about the tiers of game. What is low level game, intermediate game and higher level game?

Glad you asked, helping me to clarify my own thoughts

For the purpose of this discussion, i'll say there are 4 levels of game. (knowing full well, that there are infinite levels)

1. Low Level Game
2. Regular Game
3. "Higher Level Game for Higher Level Chicks"
4. The Zone

Level 1 - Low Level Game aka Throwaway game.

You're at the venue with your peoples.
Dressed fresh to death, smelling good, good shoes on, maybe threw back your first drank.

Decent chick walks up to your area of the bar, and you say something like

"Look who decided to join us"

She can bite, or she can move on.

You really don't care either way. You run this kinda low level game ALL DAY. Give light antagonism, invitations to chat, up to her to take the bait.

You can do quite well flag/notch wise by being social. I've grabbed enough scalawags off of errant comments.

But you're doing this without much thought or much effort.
And you can only really do this, when you're not out for blood.

To truly not give a fuck, you have to actually not give a fuck.

That being said, this is some sort of platonic ideal.

The reality is that she has to do some of your work for you.

And bitches are lazy. It's why we have to learn game in the first place.

If a chick would slob your knob for some everyday witticism, DC would be pussy paradise.

Level 2 - Deliberate Game

Same scenario, but the chick is looking right and you've got space on your roster.

You go into the situation, knowing that you want her.
If you don't get her, cool.
But she's not going to slip through your fingers because of what you said.

If you go direct, you make eye contact, you spit first, wait for a little social pleasantry as she responds to you, and then you make the conscious decision to really try to open the chick up.

*She orders some girly drink*

"Slow down baby girl, no need to hit the hard stuff, chat with Uncle Archie, and I'll solve all of your problems"

Whatever you might say in that situation. But you're conscious and deliberate about what you're doing.

You're taking the approach SERIOUSLY. You're not really playing around. If you're thirsty or pressed, those mannerisms and behaviors are thoroughly SUPPRESSED.

If there is any urgency on your part ,and she senses it, you know the game is over.

In a lot of situations, she's trying to fuck with your emotional state. She expects that she will because 99% of the time that's what happens.

But you're a player. Whatever obstacle she throws, you change the game. She wants to play checkers, and you decide it's time to read Shakespeare. You're setting the tone and direction of the interaction.

You can be active without it being a testosterone emergency.

This is standard game though. (or at least the way I think about it)

Find a chick, spit, open, logistics, the back and forth, comfort, rapport, isolate, bounce, intermediate steps, close.

If you're experienced, your regular game is internalized. Everything you say to the opposite sex pushes for interaction. Chatting up people is part of you. You can't really be the old guy that you were. You enjoy socialization.

Level 4 - Is the Zone. You do everything right, everything by your code, without thinking. Far too much pixels have been burned on "The Zone", getting in "The Zone", maintaining "The Zone", remembering "The Zone" to power through dull moments. Mf'ers always looking for a cheat mode, you buncha lazy bastards

This whole post is about LEVEL 3 - Taking your conscious and deliberate level 2 game to the next level, because something is different about the target.

That's at least how I hear people talk about it.

Supermodel/Porn Star walks through the door - appeals to both his short term and long term needs... He perceives something different about this chick.

This chick needs special treatment.
This is my interview.

"Now I gotta bring my A-Game"

They never seem to explain what's truly different, other than they think changing up the steez, effort, outlook, tone, et cetera is warranted.

Either the guy implies that he does whatever he normally does, but with much more thought, energy, and effort behind it.

Or, he changes tactics entirely.

So The "A" game is rarely the topic of conversation. Cause it would imply the other bullshit you do is all "B" Game reserved merely for vaginas with pulses.

But People talk about this "shift", "A" Game - indirectly with respect to teasing.

A 6 doesn't need any teasing.
A hard 8 requires some light teasing.
A bitchy 9 has to be verbally spanked at any sign of disrespect to send a message.

_____________________

So to recap
1. level 1 - you don't give a fuck, you're outcome independent. In terms of results, this picks up the stragglers and chicks that are feeling you. But rarely does it result in some next level shit.

2. level 2 - your normal mode - you care what happens, so you make sure you go through the process, and calibrate as necessary. This is your bread and butter.

3. Level 3 - "higher game" - as I understand it - Your Future Baby Mama steps through the door, and you waver between being super crisp and "don't" fuck it up.

Your intention, words, body language are all in accord. You know what you're doing in general, and you're doing everything you know how to do.

So you're smooth when you need to be smooth, but not so smooth as to be cheesy.

In some sense, your game "tightens", but in appearance it means that you're even more at home in your own skin. You're actively suppressing the adrenaline, the excitement.

The girl should be thinking, "Why is this guy so calm, when most guys stammer when they talk to me"..

^^

So maybe you can see some of my dilemma.

What is the "A" Game?
What is the "B" Game?

WIA

Post: #14

(08-01-2014 07:24 PM)Moto Wrote:  From my experience, the highly attractive girls are absolutely as attainable, if not more so. However, it has only worked for me with uber-confidence and absolutely no hesitation. I rarely have pre-selection or social circle working for me, as I often roll solo or sometimes with a wingman.

Great write up.

Your regular game works best with chicks that you think are the hottest, and who are generally thought of as the hottest.

So do you have to work harder to pull a lesser chick?

Cause I think what this post is about is whether, people have "2" games?

A "regular" game
And
A "special" game

WIA

Post: #15

(08-01-2014 07:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 07:24 PM)Moto Wrote:  From my experience, the highly attractive girls are absolutely as attainable, if not more so. However, it has only worked for me with uber-confidence and absolutely no hesitation. I rarely have pre-selection or social circle working for me, as I often roll solo or sometimes with a wingman.

Great write up.

Your regular game works best with chicks that you think are the hottest, and who are generally thought of as the hottest.

So do you have to work harder to pull a lesser chick?

Cause I think what this post is about is whether, people have "2" games?

A "regular" game
And
A "special" game

WIA

Trying to recall my "special" game, what I did when I actually pulled top-tier girls, consists in true determination and going for what I really want. There is strong intent and will behind my actions. This is not clinginess or emotional attachment to outcome. Rather, my directness is absolutely genuine, and I am ready to fuck them right on the spot (not that I actually did).

With the lesser girls and my regular game, it may be a very similar approach and game on the surface, but my heart just isn't in it the way it is when I see a girl that I want to impregnate on a very primal level.

Yes, lesser girls have taken more work. They are not as willing to just come over to my place, and have more LTR. They tend to demand more wining and dining. A less attractive girl I've banged here in Mexico almost put out on the first night, but the LTR left me with some major blue balls at 2nd base running to 3rd. I had to then go on a formal date (and drag her friend along) of salsa dancing and drinks before I got her to my place and got the underpants off.

Two top-tier anecdotes: A really sexy black girl, my first fuck-buddy whom I am thankful for helping me learn how to fuck, actually called me late the night after meeting her and basically asked to come over. She had her friend drop her off, and within an hour we were going at it.

With another top-tier (Russian) girl the process was simply a first date movie, to my house to ride on the back of my dirtbike, to my bedroom to "try on some Halloween costumes," to banging. We didn't even get the costumes on, though the role-play might have been fun.

(Funny side note: I even lived out in the country (hence riding dirtbikes literally at my house) and had to drive her up a long dirt road that makes any girl uneasy the first time driving up it. She asked on the way up the road, "You're not a criminal are you?")

Post: #16

(08-01-2014 08:25 PM)Moto Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 07:45 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-01-2014 07:24 PM)Moto Wrote:  From my experience, the highly attractive girls are absolutely as attainable, if not more so. However, it has only worked for me with uber-confidence and absolutely no hesitation. I rarely have pre-selection or social circle working for me, as I often roll solo or sometimes with a wingman.

Great write up.

Your regular game works best with chicks that you think are the hottest, and who are generally thought of as the hottest.

So do you have to work harder to pull a lesser chick?

Cause I think what this post is about is whether, people have "2" games?

A "regular" game
And
A "special" game

WIA

Trying to recall my "special" game, what I did when I actually pulled top-tier girls, consists in true determination and going for what I really want. There is strong intent and will behind my actions. This is not clinginess or emotional attachment to outcome. Rather, my directness is absolutely genuine, and I am ready to fuck them right on the spot (not that I actually did).

With the lesser girls and my regular game, it may be a very similar approach and game on the surface, but my heart just isn't in it the way it is when I see a girl that I want to impregnate on a very primal level.

Interesting.

I just started thinking about this as the "of course" mentality.

Here's an example:



This scene captures so much of my thoughts about game. This is Goldmund's game in Mexico right now.

Post: #17

(08-01-2014 02:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Anyone disagree?

Something about this formulation is off to me, but I'm not sure what I find exactly wrong with it.

There's some subtle issue that I can't articulate, but the only counter example I can think of is what happens when you approach a set of girls where one chick is much more attractive than the others, but the other chicks are hot in their own right.

And even in this scenario, it's too easy to get bogged down in the standard way of thinking about game. Most cats rattle off the standard group advice and don't get to the issue that I'm driving towards.

I can't get the real life pickup situation to match with what might be wrong with the idea that tens need better game.

I guess it's easier to think if the quandary when you try to get a slump buster. This "5" is acting and reacting like she's more attractive than she actually is.

And even then, standard game theory has an answer for inflated ego...

WIA

I'll disagree. How attractive a woman is rarely has any impact on how receptive she is to game. Typically in todays society, the less attractive girl receives just as much attention as the stunning girl.

I've found that a lower quality girl will require just as much work as a high quality girl. In fact some of the girls a few digits below my level have been ridiculously tough to game. Personally I've come to realise that [More often than not] the lower quality girls aren't worth the effort.

Post: #18

my game adapts to each situation. some of what has been written above is pure gold. reference to true seduction got my attention. being present, in the moment, offering true intimacy even if both parties know it is temporary, this has been very successful for me but then again, being totally cold and ruthless to a girl that needs to be punished is easy for me too.

when it comes to 6's or 7's, my normal game does not really work anymore. i'm too much. i'm too intimidating, too intense. i can't get them to see me as a viable connection. and they are right.

i'm seeing a girl now, 28 or 29. 8+ easy. looks like california dreaming. blond, big tits, small waist, tall. she needs the tightest game ever. shit test constantly, weird sporadic behavior, clear emotional confusion. but running that tight game on her is effortless after all these years. (as a side note, she is tolerable because she is actually self aware that she does it and doesn't know why.)

in fact with her, i had to assure her that she can relax around me because i won't be trying to wife her up. she is tired of that and just wants a relaxed fuck buddy. running the hard core "i actually am a player" game is kind of a new twist for me.

so i guess my point is that whether A or B is better who knows, definitely different for sure.

Post: #19

So far, a general consensus from this thread is that lower quality girls are more work in the moment then higher quality.

How about that.

One thought- If you get a girl by coming off as king, you have to stay consistent. Don't forget to act like a king the whole time. This means don't be timid.. you have to play the roll. When she's blowing you etc. tell her what to do and take the reigns or she's going to sense something weird or in congruent with your previous behavior. Don't get lazy.. it's happened to me.

Post: #20

Speaking as a man with high latent value that speaks for itself, not really. Hot girls see themselves a specific way and are aware of their hotness and value.

I admire them and try to emulate that. I dress like a boss. My behaviour is of upper-class, collected and exudes cool confidence. My group of friends are high value (Cool guys, some are incredibly handsome, others are successful). I am well groomed and my social skills are unparalleled.

If you can fit these high level women into your world and challenge their introspective value then you will get laid combined with not dropping the ball, aka congruence as soup said. Your consistency is crucial.

The difference with hot girls and average ones is that the average ones are more insecure and require more 'convincing' that you are interested. Most of them will chalk you off as a player and initiate silly but basic shit tests (the whole I can't believe this guy is talking to me syndrome).

Frame is king. This is defined by your desire, how much you purely want the girl. This will be communicated in your non-verbals (eye contact, body language) as well as vocal tonality and leading the interaction into your domain.

This is where game comes in; the art of translating your desire for her as a fantasy that she shares with you and it becomes common. The average girls won't believe you and I get shit tested as they are aware that they are not in my league. The hot ones just want me to reach the finishing line as they throw out hurdles. It becomes a game of QWOP and the sooner you set your frame, the sooner she will shit test you but if you don't budge, it is smooth sailing.

At its simplest, higher level girls just have more shit tests because they don't want to consider themselves easy and let their fragile ego's be hurt. They all want you to be an amazing, sexy man but they have their own tests, hence showing off is needy and unnecessary. They don't need you to tell them you are cool, they have their own ways of finding out. Game is just showcasing this in a natural, relevant way with opportunity to use it for seduction. Every single shit test defense created by us, takes advantage of their test to boost our own value.

The frequency of shit tests combined with their looks (value) is the distinguishing factor; higher level game is just charisma + social status, not hocus pocus tactics. Average girl shit tests are seeing if you are really interested because they don't have access to the creme-de-la-creme men and want you to be awesome, hence the unnatural frequency of shit tests. The hottest ones know who these top guys are and are testing you to see that you are that.

The workload remains the same, the time period remains the same but you gotta raise your game by shit testing her back and making her qualify. Otherwise, she is running towards the finish line and you are just chasing. If you are already there and offer her a hand but trip her up occasionally to let her know her value, then you're set.

If a lower quality girl requires more work, it is because you are too high quality and she is disqualifying herself and you spend time validating her (false) value in order to get laid. You can't eat fillet mignon every day you have to have a cheeseburger once in a whilet of validation they get out of me is the same as a hot girl, it comes down to their confidence levels and this in turn will affect how many barriers they set up. Leave these average ones for the chumps outside this forum.

I like to believe that we want to fuck the hottest therefore we have collected our knowledge here.

You can't eat fillet mignon every day you have to have a cheeseburger once in a while. Would you put the same effort in making the cheeseburger though??

Post: #21

The key to gaming tens is a very simple one. All you need is just one thing: CONFIDENCE

Obviously you need to have decent abilities in game as well, the same you would use to game 5s and 6s. This is where most people, even those with impressive notch counts, fuck up when it comes to gaming 10s: Most people lose their FRAME. Most people get so engrossed and enchanted by thoughts of conquering a broad of such immense beauty that they unconsciously become more needy and beta and they begin to 'leak bad game'. If you can keep your confidence and avoid being hypnotised by the deep blue pools that are her eyes then you should be able to successfully game her with nothing but average game. No smokescreens, No sleight of hand....just good ol' average game

Post: #22

(08-02-2014 04:56 AM)Noir Wrote:  Speaking as a man with high latent value that speaks for itself, not really. Hot girls see themselves a specific way and are aware of their hotness and value.

No they don't.

There's no universal hot girl understanding or mindset.

Especially in a big city.

And it's not like the market doesn't send all these chicks mixed signals.

This is part of the Pick Up Mythology that quickly gets destroyed when you're out on the town trying to grab a quick one night stand.

That kinda chunky brunette - she thinks she's a ten
The fitness blonde with visible musculature, thinks she's a ten.
The girl with expensive shoes on, who just happened to wear a killer outfit and is style right, thinks she's a ten, despite flaws in her face.

The fat girl
The one with the big chest
The one in the short skirt
The one who suffers from defensive high self esteem

They all think they're 10's, and expect everyone to cater to their whims and desires.

And this isn't some recent smartphone/tinder/okcupid/facebook/instagram development - this has been the case since the late 90's if not earlier.

These bitches are full of themselves, and the scores of men unwilling to disabuse them of that notion are proof. American men have spoiled American women.

And reality of her true value only comes crashing down when they hit the wall, and that's only for some. You'll see women hold on to that sense of pussy entitlement well pass the sell by date. Well past the point of it making sense.

(08-02-2014 04:56 AM)Noir Wrote:  I admire them and try to emulate that. I dress like a boss. My behaviour is of upper-class, collected and exudes cool confidence. My group of friends are high value (Cool guys, some are incredibly handsome, others are successful). I am well groomed and my social skills are unparalleled.

You may think so, but this thread isn't about repeating community propaganda.

It's so easy for you guys to get sidetracked and just parrot back whatever narrative has been hammered into you by reading the Manosphere.

"High value"

How many threads do we have up about so-called high value men that are eschewed by American/Western Women, in favor of so-called "low value men"?

The same way that we don't value her degrees and Hello Kitty collection, she doesn't value what we bring to the table.

It's why the "dancing monkey" paradigm exists.

A high value conversation
- knowledge is exchanged
- both people feel better for having had it
- a connection is made.

Like if you run into a esteemed author, a nobel prize winner, a wise religious figure, a great business leader, a perceptive teacher - what they say to you, what they bring out in you, what they make you realize about yourself - that's insanely rare, and insanely valuable. And if you can give them a gift too....well let's just not even go there.

That kind of conversation is not game.

It's not what the chick wants to hear, at 4 pm in the sun on a hot summer day, or at 12:30 am in a club.

She wants to be antagonized, tittilated, amused....But it's anything but an exchange of value. You're pouring water into this vessel waiting for it to over flow. She's rarely giving you anything to work with, much less anything of value.

Outside of what you want her for, what sort of value does she even have to give?

Especially when most guys go into these interactions, knowing that they're smarter than these chicks and have accomplished more. Da fuck do you care about her published paper on corporate psychology? Or how traditional school hours undermine women in the workplace...

__________________

In any event, that's not what this thread is about.

It's not about bagging so-called 10's.

Not about how do I get this girl, but more about I'm changing the way I think because I think this girl is special.

It's about the perceptual shift and then the change in behavior that the guy goes through when he perceives a difference in the chick.

So far what people have brought to the table is

- a girl that you think is really attractive, requires utmost confidence and belief that you're the Man.

- a girl that you think is merely attractive, doesn't necessarily respond to "super-you".

Valuable insights for sure, at least one way to address this idea that higher level girls require higher level game,

But it's just one way to look at it, and I'm not satisfied with just one solution to a complex issue.

WIA

Post: #23

WIA, in their heart of hearts, those girls know that they aren't 10s, but are thinking "I'm going to get away with whatever I can."

This is one reason why we use an objective rating system. We don't let the girls frame the situation. When you ignore their bullshit, they know that they can't put one over on you. Those medium girls fronting like high end- they are hustlers.. and a lot of bluepill guys fall for their schtick.

The guy who can see them for what they are is either seen as a potential lover/mirror, or a threat (like the way feminists hate men who like hot women) because if more guys came around to seeing the reality that the emperor is not wearing any clothes, than her game is fucked.

The strategy for actual high value girls is more of out-of-the ring type preparation. When you do step into the ring, you are a gorilla. The opponent realizes there's no sense in putting up a fight and lays down in front of you. There is no fight.

That's how it's been for me with hotter girls. There's no antagonism. Sure there are some shit tests, but it's nothing like the amount of ego proving and posturing that goes on with the lower quality girls who have probably been engaged in more battles than the higher quality girls who just get everything for free and scare off most guys.

Post: #24

(08-02-2014 10:48 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  "High value"

How many threads do we have up about so-called high value men that are eschewed by American/Western Women, in favor of so-called "low value men"?

The same way that we don't value her degrees and Hello Kitty collection, she doesn't value what we bring to the table.

This is true. At the end of the day your attributes, your skills, and your value is only relevant to a woman if it adds to her value [By association].

Shooting a round ball through a hoop, directing an independent feature film, writing a novel are irrelevant until those skills have afforded you higher value [I.E Through monetary or social recognition].

Until the point at which your skills create a visible, tangible value marker - The ability to rattle off 'clown game' will be just as successful.

Post: #25

(08-02-2014 11:13 AM)Rush87 Wrote:  

(08-02-2014 10:48 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  "High value"

How many threads do we have up about so-called high value men that are eschewed by American/Western Women, in favor of so-called "low value men"?

The same way that we don't value her degrees and Hello Kitty collection, she doesn't value what we bring to the table.

This is true. At the end of the day your attributes, your skills, and your value is only relevant to a woman if it adds to her value [By association].

Shooting a round ball through a hoop, directing an independent feature film, writing a novel are irrelevant until those skills have afforded you higher value [I.E Through monetary or social recognition].

Until the point at which your skills create a visible, tangible value marker - The ability to rattle off 'clown game' will be just as successful.

By high value man, I mean a guy who is considered to have a lot of "cool" value. Top of this totem is famous people.