Post: #26

It would depend on where the girl places herself in relation to you. Many high level girls will put you through an interrogation of what you do, where you live, where did you go to school etc

Of course a lot of this can be short circuited if you know this beforehand and not actually try to intellectually answer that such questions.

Post: #27

(08-02-2014 12:04 PM)Vicious Wrote:  It would depend on where the girl places herself in relation to you. Many high level girls will put you through an interrogation of what you do, where you live, where did you go to school etc

Of course a lot of this can be short circuited if you know this beforehand and not actually try to intellectually answer that such questions.

Actually, I think they will just assume you are some hot shit if you are in the right crowd. For example, if you are at an exclusive party with famous people, they will probably thnk that you are someone important even if you aren't. Maybe they will ask about you, but not necessarily. You will have a base line high value just by being there.

Post: #28

Of course the context/setting will matter. I assumed a neutral one. If you are in the toe you describe the question would be "who do you know here" (translation: how did you get in).

Post: #29

You guys are conflating social status and attractiveness/beauty.

That kind of thing doesn't make sense globally, our in a big city with lots of different kinds of attractive women.

It only makes sense in the tribal, high school, small college situation.

The problem is becoming more clear to me as you guys rehash what's already been written in the topic.

WIA

Post: #30

i think we can sum it as such:

there is no universal approach to all women.

therefore, best advice i can think of is be the best man you can be.

second piece of advice is learn as many angles/approaches/strategies for game that you can pick whatever tool from the tool box you need at what ever time, and be able to adjust on the fly.

just like that guy said in the crazy/hot matrix - a woman can vanish from one spot on the matrix and reappear at any other spot at any time with no rhyme or reason

Post: #31

Maybe I'm confused about the intention of this thread.

If we go back to the title:

Do higher level girls require higher level game?

And we decided here that we are removing a guy's status/value from the equation.. let's just say he appears to have enough value to be considered by all women, then the answer is that higher level girls need less game than lower ones. At least initially.

When your value isn't an issue, 6-7s can be more work because of all the stuff we mentioned earlier in this thread about having to manage their anxieties. In my experience, the super high end chicks are soft and fall in love more easily.

Post: #32

(08-02-2014 02:02 AM)soup Wrote:  So far, a general consensus from this thread is that lower quality girls are more work in the moment then higher quality.

How about that.

One thought- If you get a girl by coming off as king, you have to stay consistent. Don't forget to act like a king the whole time. This means don't be timid.. you have to play the roll. When she's blowing you etc. tell her what to do and take the reigns or she's going to sense something weird or in congruent with your previous behavior. Don't get lazy.. it's happened to me.

This is a key point but somehow I seem to always get lazy. In fact, laziness and/or complacency are the two biggest game-killers for me I think.

I tend to agree with your earlier comment that many times the higher girls are actually easier to deal with and you just need to play 'don't fuck it up' game to a certain extent. These girls can be so picky so I think that when they find someone they like no matter for what reason they tend to exhibit more 'stickiness' at least in my experience.

Post: #33

Generally better looking women have better opinion about guys since they get very well treated so they are more approachable.

Post: #34

I've come to the view that there is a phenomenon in the sexual marketplace I call the Hot Girls Club

This membership of this club is limited to girls 8.0 or so and above or maybe 8.5 in cities like NYC and LA that have a lot of high end girls, and the guys that they fuck. There is a rather bright line between this club and the lower ranks and you are either in or out. In smaller communities the limited number of guys allowed into the club are pretty much passed around by the girls.

The key to getting into this club as a man is preselection. If you are repeatedly seen with hot girls or are known to be banging them through gossip, you are in. If you doubt me, go out on a date with a really hot girl and watch how much you get eyefucked by other hot girls who normally might only give you a glance. They will outright stare and try to get your attention. You are a club member and so a viable prospect to them now.

There's even a Seinfeld episode that deals with this exact point- the one in which George carries around a pic of a model and claims she's his girlfriend. This gets him entry into exclusive clubs and soon he's hanging out with fashion models. When the pic gets accidentally destroyed, he gets excluded from this world once again. I just looked up this episode-it even refers to this world as "The Forbidden City"

If you don't have a hot girl at a given moment, there is one way you can demonstrate membership in the club and that is through frame. If you are preternaturaly confident around a hot girl she will assume that you are a club member who is comfortable with her type. Hot girls know well the effect they have on the vast majority of men and if you don't betray any nervousness or betaness you are often in. This is almost impossible to achieve until you have a great amount of experience with women in general and many notches under your belt, however.

I agree that once you are accepted, these girls are often actually easier than other girls. Thinking about this issue, I've realized the hottest girl I've banged in the last three years, an 8.5 legit beauty queen, did almost all the work setting up the bang. I approached and number closed her in a confident and dominant way at a cocktail party, and after that she invited me to a friend's boat party, then to her house to hang out, then to her friend's house where we banged. All I really did was maintain frame and game her lightly.

Also agree that once you reach this level, lower ranking girls can sense this. I've find it's getting increasing difficult to bang average girls with them sometimes explicitly verbalizing in some way that I am out of their league.

I've been feeling like I'm in a transition phase and leveling up

Post: #35

Great post XY. Thats exactly how my last year has been, hotter girls with less game. All girls know Im fucking other girls but none of them seem to care less. I think this is also what Tyler wrote about 'secret society'.

One thing you mentioned that I definently see is that average girls have gotten a lot less receptive. Its like they know and dont want the ego hit so shelter themselves.

A funny relevant story was like week I met up with a girl I regularly fuck. I was teasing her about the sexy photos she sends me and she asked which was my favourite. I picked one at random from my phone albulm of just her tits in a sexy leotard. Wasn't her. I had got her body mixed up with another gurl haha. When I laughed it off she punched me on the shoulder lightly 'youre such a dick'. That was it and we fucked again shortly afterwards. I didn't do it intentionally and she could tell I didn't give a fuck. A 6/7 would probably had freaked out.

Post: #36

Missing the trees for the forest.

I wonder of this is really too subtle to discuss in a forum.

I'll return to this thread when I have more time

WIA

Post: #37

WIA if we are all missing the point of what are you are trying to say- can you maybe try to explain it again with different examples? It sounds very interesting.

Post: #38

Indeed this is very interesting and as others have articulated with their own version of the "secret society" along with the eye fucks hot girls give you while WITH a hot girl all ring true. This all makes sense but clearly am not able to relate it in words as Soup or WIA(who seems to have the words on the tip of his tongue)can possibly do.
As for average chick's knowing the deal I would consider that to be true as there is a very cute solid 6 single mom who lives in my building and when we talk it's like a beta-guy version of disqualifying and negging HER OWN SELF. She practically just blows her self out of the water. It's like I'm doing my dick a service by not feeding him average and always being on course to collide with only the better and hottest women.

Post: #39

I've learned that you can make a really good impression on a very hot girl when you approach them boldly and without excuses.
I guess they are not used to being approached in that manner and value your audacity.

I remember when I was in high school and a total beta I had a girl in my class who later became a pretty famous model in Holland. I had a crush on her and was too scared to ask her out at the time. We went on a schooltrip to Italy and as we were walking with the class through Florence that girl got approached by some Italian guy. She was loving it and in the end that guy got a peck on the cheek and a hug ( he put his hand on her ass) before he went away. The AUDACITY! I was so traumatized by that experience that I vowed that I would never want to be a timid and shy beta again.

Another anecdote:
I was walking through Amsterdam one day and I saw this tall and incredibly beautiful blonde chick. So I went up to her and said "You must be swedish" (I'm half swedish and I speak good swedish) She turned out to be a Finnish tourist but of the swedish ethnic minority living in Finland.
We talked a bit in swedish and an hour later I left to go to a concert and she had friends or whatever she went to. I had told her my first name and where I studied. The next day, guess who friended me on facebook telling me how nice it was yesterday blablabla. In hindsight I should've pushed further I guess I had a pretty good shot at fucking her. Again, my dick didn't get wet because of a lack of AUDACITY!

Another anecdote:
I was in the library a few weeks ago and I saw this girl sitting there with incredible red hair. I was pretty tired at awful looking at the time. I strolled up to her and said: "Hey, this is a pretty rude question, but do you have a boyfriend?" She laughed and blushed and it turned out she did have a boyfriend. So I said have a nice day and walked off. Later that same day she messages me on Facebook about how cool she thought it was that I approached her and called me brave. I don't know how the hell she figured out who I was because I gave no personal information whatsoever. I look through her facebookpictures (with confirmed boyfriend) and I discover she worked as a model as well.
She kept asking me questions but I was so repulsed by the thought of this other guys dick in her mouth that I didn't have the nerve to take it further.

Moral of the story: approach hot girls just like you would approach average or ugly girls. They are just people like anybody else and I've never actually had a unpleasant interaction with really hot girls even when they reject me.
I know Heartiste has some good articles on this that you should ignore a womans beauty in relation to how you treat them

Thanks for hearing me out

Post: #40

(08-02-2014 11:12 AM)soup Wrote:  WIA, in their heart of hearts, those girls know that they aren't 10s, but are thinking "I'm going to get away with whatever I can."

This is one reason why we use an objective rating system. We don't let the girls frame the situation. When you ignore their bullshit, they know that they can't put one over on you. Those medium girls fronting like high end- they are hustlers.. and a lot of bluepill guys fall for their schtick.

The guy who can see them for what they are is either seen as a potential lover/mirror, or a threat (like the way feminists hate men who like hot women) because if more guys came around to seeing the reality that the emperor is not wearing any clothes, than her game is fucked.

The strategy for actual high value girls is more of out-of-the ring type preparation. When you do step into the ring, you are a gorilla. The opponent realizes there's no sense in putting up a fight and lays down in front of you. There is no fight.

That's how it's been for me with hotter girls. There's no antagonism. Sure there are some shit tests, but it's nothing like the amount of ego proving and posturing that goes on with the lower quality girls who have probably been engaged in more battles than the higher quality girls who just get everything for free and scare off most guys.

Soup, rating is ultimately determined by the market place. Often, it can be based on delusion. Delusion of self worth etc.

A 5 becomes a 10 if she has a surplus options. If the right people dictate the market economy and accessibility becomes regulated and has limitations on it, then it evens out value and FORCES men to either put in work to pull ANY lizard or go home for a wank.

If there is a unison on thought controlling access to resources and all hold tight, then 5s can put up as much resistance as 10s since the demand for them is as high.

I base this on horrible cities however. If New York is all you know, you won't know abject cities where you are FORCED to change your steelo.

I remember one night I went out clubbing with tomtud in Toronto. We hit up some club in Markham/Woodbridge. Mostly older lizards with a few late 20 somethings in there. A mixture of hotties and hags in there.

I tried a few attempts at some of the hotter lizards in there but got nowhere. I saw an black lizard who I would probably rate at 5.5 tops (she passed my boner test). I decided to go in, looking to up my overall black notch count and get my nut off.

I saw Tomtud's face screw up in disgust. He didn't like the look of the lizard at all. I understood where he was coming from but again, it's either try and work her into my roster or go home with zero prospects. He always came off as pretty frank in his opinions and intent (which I like).

Fast forward but I went on a date with the black lizard. She was mid or late 30s, passed my boner test but face was nothing to die for and she had about 2-3 kids.
To my disgust, that date was the first and last and she kept passing me off with excuses to meet up again afterwards.

How the fcuk does a 5.5 (and my rating is generous!) have better options when she ain't all that and she has baggage?!

The answer is, the market value. In some cities, a lizard like that would be bending over backwards to keep a man like me around. In the GTA area, a lizard like that (expired hasbeen) can hold out for a baller with an escalade and striking good looks.

In conclusion, a 5 actually believes she is a 10 because IN REALITY, she can turn down as many men as a 10. Her online profile inbox (which she would probably have) is flooded with messages from hopeful betas fighting for a chance to get some friendship pussy.

The 5 has as many date prospects as a 10. This concept is only applicable to cities that I said in mention.

In other cities in Canada/US and most (if not all of Europe), the notion I expanded on is totally foreign. The market does not allow for such low value reptiles to develop such delusions of self grandeur.

Post: #41

Moma, it doesn't matter what she thinks. It matters what a redpill man's dick thinks.

I know some guys complain here about not being able to change their surroundings.

I don't think you can draw water from a stone.

Part of game is real abundance mentality.

Efforts to game girls in places like that which you describe are futile I believe. Do everything possible to get away from those areas.

Post: #42

(08-03-2014 03:40 AM)Moma Wrote:  A 5 becomes a 10 if she has a surplus options. If the right people dictate the market economy and accessibility becomes regulated and has limitations on it, then it evens out value and FORCES men to either put in work to pull ANY lizard or go home for a wank.

If there is a unison on thought controlling access to resources and all hold tight, then 5s can put up as much resistance as 10s since the demand for them is as high.

I think this is a more accurate assessment of why lower quality girls put up high level resistance.

While the notion that they 'don't feel worthy' of a higher quality guy is novel, I think more often than not most women [Average or not] feel entitled to a higher value guy.

At the crux of it all IMO is market value. A six can be picky because on any given night she will be approached by numerous male 8's & 9's.

A high value guy will never be as enthusiastic about approaching a lower value woman. There comes a point where you'll believe [Consciously or not] that you've done enough. Unfortunately [Depending on area] you need to be on point irrespective of her level [5-10].

If your comfortable with your game & more attractive women are available [To be approached] it doesn't hurt to make them your initial priority.

Post: #43

(08-03-2014 03:48 AM)soup Wrote:  Moma, it doesn't matter what she thinks. It matters what a redpill man's dick thinks.

Soup, this is true. However a man needs to cum at some point and if his market value is limited, what can he do? He must try whatever is available.

(08-03-2014 03:48 AM)soup Wrote:  I know some guys complain here about not being able to change their surroundings.

I don't think you can draw water from a stone.

Part of game is real abundance mentality.

Efforts to game girls in places like that which you describe are futile I believe. Do everything possible to get away from those areas.

Very true regarding the underlined.

If you are the only ALPHA man around, why would a lizard go for you when she can eat from a horde of simpering betas?

I use Toronto as a perfect example of market value. A little background. I am London bred. I learned game in London from the road. I grew up in the Jamaican community of London. From very early on, 14 years old, the British Jamaican crowd would imply you are gay if you didn't show interest in lizards.
We didn't really do night clubs then. Summertime was when all the flossing occurred. We wore our best threads, best kicks and have fresh haircuts and would just walk the road, looking for opportunities to spit. Turnouts were decent and we could assemble dates and bangs.

London was decent. Lizards were rude but you could get some decent ones by working numbers and you always had immigrants flowing in. I remember hollaring at a waitress in a restaraunt after a workout with some friends. She responded extremely negatively but ended up giving me her number.
I remember some big breasted white lizard from America who was fiending for some British phallus who gave me her number one summer.

Fast forward now. I went to Toronto with the same mentality. Never really needed to leverage closing etc. My game was pretty much open strong and if I got her number, the chance of the bang was about 60 percent.

Now, what I noticed in Toronto was a higher amount of fat lizards. Pretty faces, better skin, better hair but more body weight. No problem, I thought.
But I would go out to clubs with a high percentage of black guys and I was taken aback to find I'm the only one opening in these clubs.

Without turning it into a race thing, in my travels, I've found black guys, especially those of West Indian descent, to be very proactive when it comes to opening and getting lizards.
In London, I saw guys openly putting in work and a LOT of day game.

Not so in Toronto.

I had a period of going hard in the field. Sometimes my mentality is like, fcuk all of you, I'm just to start swinging. I become very determined and I wait for no one. So I said fcuk it, if people are going to stand around sight seeing, let me eat and I went hard. Opening. Clean intents but no pussyfooting around. My results were paltry. Flakes left and right. If the lizard wasn't FRESH from her own country, I was dead in the water. Why? The overall BETA presence had killed my opportunities.
When one is flush with options, they will become inconsistent in general.

I didn't have great material possessions. I was renting a room. I didn't have a lush car. However, I was in decent shape and I wasn't some social weirdo. That worked in London, it should work in Toronto, right?

But I was being priced out by betas. Social circle game was killing me, a solo guy from overseas. My British accent didn't mean shyt, just a lot of 'ooh, I love your accent'. If you love it, love this dick that comes with it.
They didn't.

As you said, soup, one has to get out. I'm glad I had the opportunity to do so. Already, my creativity is coming back and my mind is healing. Even now when I am flaked on now by lizards (which happens from time to time), I have so much on my plate (ideas to try and things to do) as well as lizard abundance that I don't feel the same level of bile I did in Toronto and the same level of self disgust for actually feeling bile over some washed up lizards.

Whenever I am now flaked on, a distant memory flickers over from the nasty city of Toronto but then I squint at the current beautiful sunshine washing my face and laugh childishly.

Post: #44

I don't believe better looking girls need different game. I only adjust my game based on the environment we're in, the girls personality, and how attracted she seems towards me. None of these factors seem to have any correlation with her looks.

Post: #45

WIA, I'd say it's dependent on where you pick up the girl. Higher level girls do require high levels of game but what type of game is dependent on the situation.

In the street - high level of daygame
in the club - high level of passive game + nightgame (I'm not sure about this, hardly do takeaways)

Post: #46

I would say that game works best on slightly above average girls; the 6s to 8s of the world. For the really high level girls, the 9s and 10s, I think you need some game obviously but more so, you need to actually be of a fairly high value yourself. High value can refer to a number of things; looks, build, power, wealth etc.

No matter how good your game is, you're not going to see many broke, ugly men with smokeshow girls.

Post: #47

(08-03-2014 09:01 AM)Kieran Wrote:  I don't believe better looking girls need different game. I only adjust my game based on the environment we're in, the girls personality, and how attracted she seems towards me. None of these factors seem to have any correlation with her looks.

This is the probably the closest to where I am on the subject.

This thread made me realize how much I haven't thought about the interplay.

WIA

Post: #48

Good I am reading through this thread. The other day I secured a date with a model, and I had the thought running through my head "Do higher level girls require higher level game".

A while back, I used to just approach and try it with girls who were average or above average at most, because I thought they would be easier. How wrong I was, understanding your value and acting on it is important, these girls will drag you through the mud, and the average, above average girls in the West are very damaged; as others have said here before, these are the girls that get approached all the time.

Anyway I think a very attractive woman is a shit test in herself, if you can keep calm, confident and let your natural inner game come through, then you will be fine.

There is no point in settling for average, go for the best; if you are reading this forum and applying techniques from here; you will already be one step ahead from most of the male population.

Post: #49

(08-01-2014 03:04 PM)Heathree Wrote:  If you are a high quality guy, getting a high quality girl should be easy. Perhaps, it might be easier to work on yourself (gym, fashion, career, etc) rather then be a low value guy looking to punch above his weight. Working on yourself to become a top guy is a better approach as it aids life all round rather then just the women aspect.

So much this, game simply comes to increasing your weakness and utilizing your attributes for your desired outcome

Post: #50

I remember reading something about your value and a girl's value. These are the main factors for getting together, a girl is highly unlikely to date 2 points below her perceived value.