Post: #1

So this might be odd for the RvF crowd, but i've been thinking of going to seminary.

Beyond the spiritual aspirations, i'm not sure what this all entails. Research online is all over the place.

Does anyone have any experiences with such callings or know of anyone who has received the call?

Post: #2

Why? I'm not being patronizing, it just seems like that would be the big question.

Post: #3

Matt Dillahunty almost did. He spent two years reading arguments for and against Christianity to prepare himself before attending. Now he's a prominent atheist speaker and debater with hundreds of appearances uploaded to Youtube.

Post: #4

(06-24-2014 09:08 AM)heavy Wrote:  Why? I'm not being patronizing, it just seems like that would be the big question.

I've been spending a lot of time reading the Bible, both new and soon the old testament. I really enjoy the lessons which it teaches and how applicable it is to our daily lives once you've taken the red pill. A lot of what we teach has already been taught in oral tradition and written down. I really want to learn old Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic so I can read the original translations of the old and new testament. Not to mention the Kabbalah and the lessons contained in Jewish mythology (similar lessons can be found in Greek mythology as well).

Not to mention, i've had some really intense spiritual moments which started at the gym and led me to becoming a really active member of a local church.

I was at work today and the thought really just entered my head as something that i'd probably enjoy.

Side note, I haven't been gaming or chasing tail as of late. Really just focusing on things that I enjoy at the moment. Giving up the player lifestyle would be pretty easy since I haven't really been living it for quite some time

Post: #5

Most people are there for the fellowship. The people who argue over finer points of whatever sacred text tend to be a little nuts with not much else going on it their life.

Post: #6

Well, this might be the most... 'confusing' non-troll thread title I've ever read. Going to seminary is obviously an important life decision.

When I was making decisions about what I wanted to do with my life, I asked myself in what way I wanted to contribute to society. I see my value as a human being as what I can offer others based on my background.

When you choose 'religion' as a profession, your contribution to society is defined by how you can inspire others to live a certain way, while admittedly sacrificing more than any other profession in the world. I can't think of another occupation that asks you for celibacy. Is that how you want to contribute to society? You will also find a lot of teachings in the bible, or any religion, which are decidedly not 'red-pill.' Are you comfortable spreading those as well?

What do you want your place in life to be?

Post: #7

(06-24-2014 10:46 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  Well, this might be the most... 'confusing' non-troll thread title I've ever read. Going to seminary is obviously an important life decision.

When I was making decisions about what I wanted to do with my life, I asked myself in what way I wanted to contribute to society. I see my value as a human being as what I can offer others based on my background.

When you choose 'religion' as a profession, your contribution to society is defined by how you can inspire others to live a certain way, while admittedly sacrificing more than any other profession in the world. I can't think of another occupation that asks you for celibacy. Is that how you want to contribute to society? You will also find a lot of teachings in the bible, or any religion, which are decidedly not 'red-pill.' Are you comfortable spreading those as well?

What do you want your place in life to be?

Thanks for the post, I was actually thinking about doing Lutheran Seminary. I still would like to marry

A lot of the teachings in the bible are actually very red pill. The world we live in is imperfect and requires us to make imperfect decisions. Everyone's journey in life is different and the struggles we all face require us to adapt or die.

As for this forum and my own personal beliefs, game and seduction brought me to this point. Had I never went down this rabbit hole and learned what women really want and how human social interactions really work I don't think I would have made it to this point.

The hard lessons that game has brought me to have really changed and provided a foundation for me to heal where I went wrong and actually seek out relationships with healthy people.

I reaped what I sowed with my last serious long term relationship. Sex can be used to bind two people for a lifetime or it can be used as a bridge to take something from the other person that you feel you lack. Ironically, if you use it to take something from other people that you lack you end up feeling even more destitute.

Now, obviously, not everyone is going to feel this way and even people on this forum would never want to give up the player lifestyle.
This is an imperfect world and it always will be. The point of Christianity is to help heal the wounds of this imperfect world. There will always be bad things. There's nothing we can do about that.

Until one actually steps down the rabbit hole, his innocence never really leaves. Not everyone needs to take this journey, but the ones that do will have an imprint that will change his entire perspective on life.

It's a lot like the story of the prodigal son. Boy leaves home, takes his inheritance, and spends it on stupid things that bring no value. He ends up being destitute but eventually welcomed back into his family after working and living with the pigs.

I bet that prodigal son has a lot of wisdom that could help bring prosperity to his younger brother who followed the rules.

The experiences I read and see here on this forum are impressive. I see a lot of guys really struggling to define themselves in this 21st century world. I have my own opinions about sex that I follow for myself, but if I can help another man here solve some existential problem for himself I will die knowing I did alright. The wisdom I've gained for myself has helped me help others with their own problems.

Sin is bad mkay, but by saying, "don't do it or else!" we miss the point of what can come from it. It's like touching a burner after it has been really hot. I can tell you it's hot and not to touch it, but will you really understand how hot it is without touching it? Only once you get burned by the behavior will one really see the lesson that was in store.

Sometimes, we have to do bad and hard things to understand the greater works that can come from those bad things. There's always a plan and the lessons one can gain from this troubled world are immense.

That is why I want to go to seminary.

Post: #8

It sounds like you have given this quite a bit of thought. I respect that. This is very cliché, but appropriate I think: follow your heart man.

You only get one life (that we know of at least) so you should do what your heart (gut for some) is telling you. I think you will regret it more if you don't do it.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck and keep us posted my friend.

Post: #9

Why not? You'd bring some depth and experience to the ministry.

It's an honorable profession if you hew to the teachings of Christ and try to help people.

Post: #10

Well this response got away from me, but hopefully there's some meaningfulness here. First off, this made me chuckle...

(06-24-2014 10:46 AM)Rotisserie Wrote:  I can't think of another occupation that asks you for celibacy.

...it's not a stupid conclusion, I just knew you'd get this response from at least someone. But I am relieved you weren't thinking of the priesthood, even if being a clergyman having married sex would be disappointing and infrequent.

Not to take away your reasons why, I find them intriguing, but the appeal of the pulpit and captivating an audience is powerful. I'm not saying that's your reason, but it would be an added benefit of being a pastor.

It doesn't sound like you're that different than most pickup coaches, lifestyle counselors, psychologists, or even many guys on here. You basically want to help people improve their lives. You took the Red Pill because you needed help, now you want to help others with your knowledge-base...and you see the reflections of Christianity in men-women relationships.

Churches could use guys with your knowledge...most (all?) have no fucking idea how to handle modern society, including issues such as infidelity, porn, divorce, marriage counseling, etc.

Example: The church I went to when I was married had this men's breakfast they'd do every so often where guys talk about that shit and struggles and all that. Looking back I realize they had no fucking idea what they were dealing with and definitely no clue how to handle it. Their answer was to not look at porn. So a healthy 25 year old male is supposed to not have sex, not look at porn, not lust after women, and not masturbate. Oh, and me being married at 23, I'm supposed to be totally content with married sex every week or so and I'm hurting my wife by looking at porn or even lusting after other women. Riiiiiiigggggggghhhhhttttt. The whole Red Pill knowledge - or hell, biological knowledge - sorta flies in the face of modern day Christianity.

That said, I've seen a lot of "is the bible red pill?" and posts saying it is or isn't. I never really understand the discussion. 'Red pill' is simply the understanding of human nature and all it's aspects. For me, the overall story of the Bible makes more a lot of sense out of our world.

Example: I stopped going to church and started partying more long before I understood why. I wasn't rebelling against Christianity or the church. I didn't feel I was doing something wrong, and while I couldn't justify not going to church, deep down I didn't feel I was breaking the rules or upsetting God. In fact I felt better about myself. I felt healthier and more stable emotionally, which seemed like God would probably be happy for. Then it clicked. I'd never live my life for myself, despite the entire Old Testament (3/4 of Bible) being about God demanding only the best for himself. And yet I was walking around thinking I was all Jesus-ee and New Testament when in reality I'd never really done what I wanted. I was living a bull-shit life. God had to first demand the best for Himself before he could offer the best to the world. And again, the majority of the story is spent on the former, not the latter. You can't give something you never felt you had the option of keeping.

And then I found Game and realized there were entire communities of guys coming to the same conclusion. The Bible shit above can be read about many books (No More Mr Nice Guy). Is this not written in the annals of the threads of the RooshVForum?

Post: #11

Christianity and other theistic religions are the biggest con of history. They are fairy stories created to give power to the priestly class.

You could gain still money, prestige and even pussy by going this route, but the power of these fairy stories is in decline in the West.

As for spirituality, you will gain nothing by reading the Jewish tribal stories of slaughtering their enemies, and the New Testament lies of a life of submissiveness and weakness being made OK after death. By some guy who comes from the sky and slaughters his enemies.

Post: #12

Seminary is pretty broad - do you have a particular faith?

Besides catholicism most faiths let you keep on banging. Some don't even care if it's in a committed relationship (go Unitarians!). My experience with priests and ministers is that the really good ones are agnostics and sometimes practically atheists. They recognize that faith helps people but in order to be good at the job you need to be able to keep your head above it.

Post: #13

I would recommend "YHWH the Two-Faced god" by Dr. Joseph P. Farrell and Dr. Scott DeHart. It challenges the historical foundations of Judaism (and consequently, Christianity and Islam) and does a lot to explain the moral contradictions of these religions.

Post: #14

(06-24-2014 06:31 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Christianity and other theistic religions are the biggest con of history. They are fairy stories created to give power to the priestly class.

You could gain still money, prestige and even pussy by going this route, but the power of these fairy stories is in decline in the West.

As for spirituality, you will gain nothing by reading the Jewish tribal stories of slaughtering their enemies, and the New Testament lies of a life of submissiveness and weakness being made OK after death. By some guy who comes from the sky and slaughters his enemies.

The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

This is why it seems like a foolish con to you. You are spiritually dead and thus cannot perceive the truth of God, which can only be understood through the Spirit.

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him! Matt. 7:7-11

This is how you can receive the Spirit. It's very simple: you just sincerely ask for it.

God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. - James 4:6b - 8a

Humble yourself a bit. Open your heart to the possibility that perhaps the universe was created by an omnipotent being whose power and machinations are incomprehensible to your tiny human mind. Humility is the only proper response to being the creation of an omnipotent God.

The Lord detests all the proud of heart. Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished. - Prov. 16:5

Ultimately the choice is yours. You can trust in yourself or you can trust in God.

I can tell you this: I spent the past decade focusing a large portion of my reading on philosophy, Eastern religions and spirituality, in an attempt to discover the deeper meaning behind life. I was atheist/agnostic for most of this time, being willing to admit at most that God was simply a human conception for an unknowable cosmic force. I was very confident in my estimation of the truth. After all, I had been reading and thinking about these issues for a long time.

But then I somehow got around to looking more into Christianity. I don't even remember how exactly, I think it might have just been a Bible verse I saw online that resonated with me. So I began to read more. And there is something different about the Bible. When you start to read it more you get a feeling of its power. You begin to realize that these words are not the product of the human mind, though they came from the human hand. The Divine inspiration of the Bible is clearly apparent. Speaking as a man who has read hundreds of books, I can tell you truly that the Bible is unlike any other book ever written.

In my estimation, the key virtue to Christianity is humility. Without humility, one cannot even see the need for God, much less have faith in him. Without humility, the Spirit cannot touch your heart - God detests the proud, for the greatest of human accomplishments is not even a speck of dust compared to God, who created the entire universe out of nothing.

If you can find just a bit of humility, consider the possibility that the universe is actually much stranger than you or any other intelligent person would like to imagine. Imagine that God actually does exist, as well as Satan. What could be stranger than that to the modern, arrogant Western mind? Further, imagine that the entire reason humanity was created was to serve to refute Satan, by allowing humans to make a free will choice either for God or against God.

Imagine the purpose of the world and everything in it is simply to separate those who choose for the Spirit over the flesh, those who humble themselves and trust in God rather than in their own power and wisdom. Imagine the purpose of the world is simply to provide an opportunity for God's creatures to seek him out of their own free will. Satan is the antagonist, the great deceiver, the father of lies - his goal is simply to prevent people from finding God by any means necessary, and to thereby ruin God's perfect judgment and prevent his own punishment. His greatest success has been worked on those who don't even believe he exists.

Before humanity was created, Satan was Lucifer, the most powerful angel created by God. But due to his arrogance and vanity he led a rebellion against God along with 1/3 of the angels, believing that God's perfect goodness and righteousness would prevent him from punishing Lucifer. But he was mistaken. God's divine perfection also entails perfect justice, and for this reason humanity was created: to serve as a living indictment against Satan. Creatures of flesh and spirit, born into sin, we must make the conscious choice to seek out God and refute Satan, who consciously chose to sin and rebel against God.

Those who choose to refute the sinful flesh and seek God will have eternal life, replacing the angels who rebelled along with Lucifer. Those who choose sin and arrogance will be cast along with Satan and his fallen angels into the lake of fire, the just punishment for their rebellion against God. Have you ever noticed how the theme of Good vs. Evil is so prominent in literature? Well, that's because it's literally the story underlying the creation of the universe.

Anyway, I'm not asking you or anyone reading this to believe in God, but simply to open your mind to the possibility that the universe might be stranger than our modern scientific arrogance would care to admit, and then to open your heart to the possibility that maybe, just maybe, there could be something to this Christianity thing that has caused such a stir for all these years. Put your arrogance aside. Much more intelligent men than you and I have been devout Christians. Our intellectual understanding of the world is inherently limited by the limitations of our physical bodies. True understanding only comes through the Spirit, and the Spirit only comes through humility and faith in God.

If anyone is interested in an in-depth analysis of the Bible, check out http://www.ichthys.com. It's a tremendously valuable resource for Spiritual growth authored by Dr. Robert Luginbill, a professor of Classics and a seminary graduate who is fluent in ancient Hebrew and Greek (the original languages of the Bible). His Biblical scholarship is simply astounding. His Satanic Rebellion series is particularly worth reading to understand the purpose behind the creation of the universe and the necessity of God for humanity.

If anyone would like to discuss these matters more, post in this thread or feel free to PM me.

Post: #15

I will say this, and then I won't go any further.

I spent most of my first 17 and a half years on Earth paying lip service to my religion. I attended religious school and became a Bar Mitzvah. As to whether or not I actually believed is up for debate. I certainly believed that there was something bigger than myself, but I questioned it.

Something led me to God. I don't know what it was, but it was important. I read the Tanakh. I read parts of the New Testament. I read the Koran. I looked at other things. Overall, I accepted God. I became convinced that there is a God, and He is very real. I'm also convinced that there's an afterlife. I'm convinced that there are angels and demons. True demonic possession is terrifying. Just reading accounts of it is nothing short of horrifying.

That being said, I think the religions are largely pointless. I'm confident that there is a God, and that He loves us unconditionally. I believe there's an afterlife as well. However, I do not believe that any of the religions (Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc.) are the sole path to Him. They are all equally valid.

On another note, I think a lot of the recent rise of atheism can be attributed to the "me generation." People seem to have developed a sense of "everything starts and ends with me." Things like Facebook and Twitter reinforce that notion. However, when you have that attitude, I believe it's very difficult to accept that there is something bigger than you in the universe.

Post: #16

(06-24-2014 08:59 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Seminary is pretty broad - do you have a particular faith?

Besides catholicism most faiths let you keep on banging. Some don't even care if it's in a committed relationship (go Unitarians!). My experience with priests and ministers is that the really good ones are agnostics and sometimes practically atheists. They recognize that faith helps people but in order to be good at the job you need to be able to keep your head above it.

Lutheranism is probably where I would head. It's what I was raised on and I like the traditions associated with it.

But yeah, i'd describe me more as a pragmatic Christian. The best allegory for Christianity is that the world is a battle and Christianity is your armor and sword. You're going to have to do bad things. Nothing can stop that, but know where your heart lies and you'll be fine.

I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of strong spirituality on this forum mixed in with the die hard atheists (we welcome you too). This forum is the ultimate scratching post for my intellectual claws.

Post: #17

A buddy of mine with whom I served in the army decided to attend the seminary.

I say go for it. Spread the red pill knowledge from the pulpit! Prepare to be hated if you do though.

Post: #18

I am not religious at all, but being a priest has always been appealing to me. I like being a "friendly advisor" in all areas of life, optimizing stuff rather than creating it, listening to people and helping them live happier lives. I have always thought of it being a very admirable profession - of course, assuming you're a true priest who genuinely helps his flock, not some parasite who molests children.

Post: #19

One thing you might want to consider is this. Let's say you graduate from seminary and then get into a middle management level position in some Christian organization. What will happen if you just spent 4 to 6 years of your life giong to seminary and then you start to notice all the corruption in the religious organization you're a part of? That can REALLY fuck with your head, and cause you to literally lose faith in everything that you've committed yourself to.

In my own experience, if you are seeking enlightenment/God, you won't find such things within an organization. You have to go out on your own, walk your own path, and discover the truth yourself. Organized religion is one of the big evils in this world.

Post: #20

I suppose you could always go to seminary for 1-2 years, learn the classical languages, etc... and leave if you find it isn't for you. My understanding is that you don't need to actually commit until you are well into your course.

Post: #21

I recently spent some time with a church group and while the focus on God at this particular get-together was very minimal, just being around them was extremely grounding and left me thinking for days. It almost felt like a bit of an awakening. Like the life I'm living is not altogether "real" and a reminder that I could wake up anytime I wanted.

There was no one pitching anything to me or preaching even to the group; it was just observing their behavior, feeling the group spirit, and reflecting back on times I'd been involved with that when I was younger.

It was also just really refreshing and grounding to be around other Westerners here in Asia who weren't just all about getting hammered and/or bedding women, and who were actually accomplishing things with their time here. They weren't super uptight or anything - we had some beers (though not as many as I usually have) and shot the shit. Just being in that grounding atmosphere put me in a mode since where I don't really want to be drunk, though I've made no concrete decisions not to.

And an alcoholic just not really "feeling" like getting a buzz on is always a sign of a good mental or spiritual shift (though it's often temporary if whatever directions sparks it isn't pursued further).

I wouldn't mind spending more time with such a group should I stick in one location for any length of time. Nice to feel a community spirit like that - most communities here with Westerners in them are apt to drag you down some debaucherous routes, and I certainly don't need help with that.

I also liked that their group was extremely mixed, with locals and foreigners alike. So much so that a translator was needed for to make sure everything important was communicated in both English and the local dialect.

I've actually had some mind-blowing spiritual experiences in my life, some of which should have been enough to turn anyone into a believer. Many of these seemed linked to the Christian faith for various reasons, though I'm not a big adherent to any particular religion (ya think?).

I believe in God or some type of Higher Power. Not because it makes rational sense to me (I'm not so sure my brain is powerful enough to conceive it anyhow) but because of what I've experienced and because of what my intuition tells me. But it has always been my feeling that if I want to know Him more, I can do that by secluding myself somewhere and meditating or praying rather than listening to what others say and accepting it at face value. I'm a die-hard individualist, so it makes sense I'd hesitate to follow.

Having said that, I think people do Christians a real injustice to pretend that their religion isn't as much about personal, solitary spiritual exploration as much as it's about doctrines, traditions, and following what leaders say.

After all, the entire premise of Christianity, according to many, is to "look within," and that "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you." While a lot of preaching goes on, that preaching constantly pushes you to look inward and find truth for yourself, or to ask God on your own.

Experiences like the other day also remind me, however, that there is a huge power in associating with like-minded people who want their lives to have a positive impact and strive to treat others with genuine kind-hearted respect. Even if you don't fully accept everything they believe (and don't assume you even know what they believe, by the way, especially on individual levels), you can't deny the positive effects you can receive from socializing with other believers.

That depends, of course, on what you see as positive and what you see as negative.

In the past decade, it seems Christian groups have gotten more open-minded, accepting of alternative lifestyle, and free-thinking than ever. Kind of a hippy crowd sometimes but not strictly. There's been an emergence of groups embracing prophetic ministry and trying to experience miraculous things in the present day rather than just read about them, which has also led to some interesting results, depending on how much of it you buy.

In a lot of these more free-thinking groups, for example, having sex and living together outside of marriage isn't a huge deal and is a lifestyle choice of important, popular people in the church (though they definitely value sincere, one-on-one relationships and probably wouldn't think much of a guy trying to see how many "bangs" he can rack up. Especially if attempting to seduce one of their own... )

It also depends on the group, as some religious groups definitely could be an over-bearing, judgmental group of sheep... Or at least that's what I've heard; I've yet to have those experiences whenever I made a point to associate with Christians. It seems to me they get a bad rap, but maybe I've been lucky and met good, open-minded folks.

I'm also really interested in other religions, especially those with Eastern origins.

Not sure who or what this post is addressing...just my ramblings on the matter.

Post: #22

(07-03-2014 07:39 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I wouldn't mind spending more time with such a group should I stick in one location for any length of time. Nice to feel a community spirit like that - most communities here with Westerners in them are apt to drag you down some debaucherous routes, and I certainly don't need help with that.

I don't want to denigrate your experience, but you can find that kind of communal spirit outside religion. It is imo only that in the post-modern world, the only westerners living a traditional communal lifestyle are either religious or rural. We have become alienated to each other and seek a place to belong, that is why subcultures are so strong in the west and much less common in more traditional societies.

When I visit my family living in rural scandinavia I feel exactly like you do. A simple, honest way of life, based on community. Not in anyway do I with simple mean stupid or unsophisticated, but just living without bs pretention. They do drink heavy on weekends though.

Could be you are just more of a rural type? If I get married with kids, then I am moving to the countryside for sure.

Post: #23

^ I go back and forth. I grew up in a rural area and love nature, but I thrive on the city and often bore of the pace in smaller places.

Actually, even where I grew up, which is extremely rural, this sense of community felt much stronger when I was hanging in these groups than when I was hanging with other locals. Community spirit has seriously deteriorated in the states though. Even in small towns. A lot of small American towns are full of drugs, loneliness, and a sense of despair.

So maybe not the best frame of reference.

Post: #24

Based on your earlier posts, I say go for it - you'd be helping people aspire to something higher than themselves, helping create a community in what is becoming an increasingly atomized society, and likely serve as a great sounding board to men who feel lost in today's church (which from what I've read has become very feminized).

Post: #25

Be a spirtual nurse or a doctor, much more useful to society. Dedicate your life to helping others.