Post: #301

(03-27-2017 01:57 PM)sterling_archer Wrote:  If we go route of the science, tiny dots are satellites. I can observe them because I live outside the city, in the village where there is no light polution. Also I can see every time plane flies over my house in the night.

Also, interesting art from the church at Kosovo. See upper left and right corners. Mural was made between 1327 and 1335.

That's a nice find sterling.

Back in the day when that mural was made there was no electric light, so whatever was in the sky was a lot brighter and more visible to the human eye. All they had back then at night was candles and fires.

Nowadays, if you live in a town or city there is so much artitficial light that its impossible to make out much in the sky.

You need to go to a non populated area, large woods or desert that doesn't have any artifical light to actually see the full spectrum of what's glowing and moving in the sky at night. If you have never done that it's pretty amazing how much you can see in the sky when there is no light on the ground at night.

sterling_archer, I would suggest if you have a high powered zoom camera to try and film up close whatever it is you see moving in the sky.

Post: #302

(03-27-2017 03:13 PM)Mage Wrote:  This is why these stupid theories exist - Mercenary you are among people who have no ability to perceive what is spirituality, therefore you interpret material symbols of the spiritual as other material things - because you don't experience the spiritual aspect of life per se.

*snip*

You don't have the introspection to live spiritual life and therefore you externalize spiritual texts, icons and teachings and try to find material objects that would fit these externalizations.

*snip*

You call that spirituality? Don't you have shame?

*snip*

For a religious person, you sure are hostile and insulting to people who think differently. Are you sure you are following the precepts of what your faith is towards how you interact with others ?

Many religious people would disagree with you that everything in the bible is metaphorical and allegorical.

As a simple example the bible makes a very detailed genealogical account of the names of men between Adam, Abraham and later Jesus. They throught it very important to chronicle the name of every single generation of those men who lived and gave birth to sons. So, thats pure symbolism too ?

My point is this...there are many similiarties between religions and mythologies worldwide. Way too many similiarities for it just to be coincidence.

As a simple example, did you know that over 200 different religions and mythologies ALL believe in a flood myth like that of Noah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_myth

Now, you want to tell me that all these different people on 6 different continents who never had any contact with eachother and lived seperately for thousands of years all by pure chance came up with almost the same exact story ?




I'm not a christian fundamentalist or anything, and I don't think one religion is right and all others are wrong. However, the endless similarities in the beliefs of men who lived for thousands of years is way too many to simply dismiss to coincidence and symbolic allegories, metaphors and parables.

Another thing....you want to speak directly with spirits and demons ?
Take the drug Ayahuasca or DMT.

We have 2 threads just for people who have taken it here:

Ayahuasca and the body

/thread-33936.html

5-MeO-DMT - The God Molecule
/thread-59841.html


I have never taken it....but those who have all report the same thing.
They talk with creatures that are both sentient and very smart.
It's definetly NOT like having a dream.
But of course, you will say those people are simply imagining things too.

Post: #303

Too bad I don't have camera, otherwise I would gladly put video here as I observe satellites almost every night. And meteorites also.

Post: #304

(03-28-2017 03:46 AM)sterling_archer Wrote:  Too bad I don't have camera, otherwise I would gladly put video here as I observe satellites almost every night. And meteorites also.

Try and get one if it's not too expensive.
I think actual forum members posting their own material would increase the value of this thread.

Post: #305

(03-27-2017 03:13 PM)Mage Wrote:  There is nothing spiritual about seeing similarities between crosses and various objects like space stations.

The cross is an interesting symbol.
There are many theories that the cultures that existed before christianity all had cross like symbols in that which they worshipped.

Also, before the nazi party hijacked the thing, the cross swastika was a symbol that hundreds of cultures on 5 different continents all used in their religions. Cultures and people which I remind you, for thousands of years had no contact with eachother at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika



I am pretty sure the swastika cross symbol was based on something millions of men of previous generatons saw glowing in the sky AT NIGHT.




Here's a quick recap of just a small part of the various cultures had this symbol in their faith:

Post: #306

dupe

Post: #307

(03-28-2017 04:43 AM)Mage Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 03:37 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  [quote='Mage' pid='1537513' dateline='1490645595']

This is why these stupid theories exist - Mercenary you are among people who have no ability to perceive what is spirituality, therefore you interpret material symbols of the spiritual as other material things - because you don't experience the spiritual aspect of life per se.

*snip*

You don't have the introspection to live spiritual life and therefore you externalize spiritual texts, icons and teachings and try to find material objects that would fit these externalizations.

*snip*

You call that spirituality? Don't you have shame?

*snip*

For a religious person, you sure are hostile and insulting to people who think differently. Are you sure you are following the precepts of what your faith is towards how you interact with others ?

You have got it all wrong.

I am not a religious person.

Religions are for the blind. Then they need priests to guide them. Some priests are benevolent and reveal some truths, others are more malevolent and use believers for money and other benefits. Most are somewhere in between.

I am a spiritual person who can to some degree observe the spiritual processes. I don't need to believe, have faith and I do not care what those religious comedians think.

Floods might have occurred multiple times in antiquity also civilizations migrated with stories of floods, but there is nothing spiritual about that.

If you interpret Bible as a book of cosmology and history then there is no spirituality in it, if you believe God, angels and demons have bodies and walk around us as real physical beings than that is your pseudo-scientific theory but there is nothing spiritual about that.

Spirituality is about holiness, about different attributes of human soul about being in inner harmony with God and nature about your desires, about the balance of your egoism and altruism, about your virtues and weaknesses, about process from animal consciousness to God consciousness, about process from child growing up and becoming a man, about initiation and transcendence. This is what Holy texts talk about. If you want to interpret them as books about history and aliens then you lose the core meaning and you lose the spiritual aspects and become a materialist who chases myths and ghosts.

The OT story of the flood is all about the good qualities of human soul separting from the wicked qualities (in the arc) and surviving a cleanse trough water which is the property of bestowal that can be nourishing if used in moderation or destructive if used in excess as human egoism would like to have it and therefore destroys itself.

(03-28-2017 03:58 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  The cross is an interesting symbol.
There are many theories that the cultures that existed before christianity all had cross like symbols in that which they worshipped.

I am pretty sure the swastika cross symbol was based on something millions of men of previous generatons saw glowing in the sky AT NIGHT.

Spirituality is not seeing crosses in space stations - it is about carrying the cross of your savior for a while and about inviting the spiritual in your mundane life. The cross is about the intersection of spiritual dimension (vertical line) into mundane (horizontal line). This is why it is a universal symbol found across all cultures, not because aliens showed it in skies. The firecross or swastika adds lines to give a sense of motion to the symbol depicting the inner struggle of vertical and horizontal planes- from this struggle, from this holy war, from this inner dialectic in human beings are all things born, it is thus the basis of creativity and power of human mind. These things are innate in all human beings with souls and therefore naturally arise trough all religions and cultures.

To suggest that these things were given to us by aliens is to profane these holy symbols, it is to deny that we have real souls with ability to perceive good and evil and to come up with these symbols on our own, and to reduce it all to a mere materialistic level of alien technology driven world.

Post: #308

Mage, I agree with most of what you write....but I think you need both.
The spirtitual inside, and the physical realm outside.
They are not mutually exclusive.

By the way, to make it very clear:

I do NOT believe in aliens or UFOs.

I have never claimed anything like that in my more than 1900 posts on this forum.

However, according to some flat earth theorists, "aliens" is what they use to hide the existence of the demons depicted by men for thousands of years in all world cultures and religions in our world.

Post: #309

(03-28-2017 04:52 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  Mage, I agree with most of what you write....but I think you need both.
The spirtitual inside, and the physical realm outside.
They are not mutually exclusive.

By the way, to make it very clear:

I do NOT believe in aliens or UFOs.

I have never claimed anything like that in my more than 1900 posts on this forum.

However, according to some flat earth theorists, "aliens" is what they use to hide the existence of the demons depicted by men for thousands of years in all world cultures and religions in our world.

The thing is, that science takes a perfectly fine care about the outside physical realm. I see creationism and flat earth theory being pushed by religious people who want to use bible as scientific texts, which is wrong. Yeah, sometimes science is wrong but always corrects itself some time later.

If there exist any non-human malevolent beings with high technology that observe us then it doesn't matter if you call them aliens or demons. They are still external beings and can be killed with physical weapons. But what certainly exists are sins, egoism, addictions, maladabted animal survival instincts, bad habits et cetera which cannot be targeted and killed by physical weapons and which fight over your soul or psyche and which need to be discarded and replaces by virtues, altruism, reason and wisdom.

If you attribute all the worlds ills to external sources you are probably missing the internal forces that truly shape the world.

Post: #310

(03-28-2017 04:46 AM)Mage Wrote:  Spirituality is not seeing crosses in space stations...

What I am proposing is that there MIGHT be no space station at all....but simply a bright glowing moving light in the sky that LOOKS like a cross or swastika, which they claim is a space station.

It might be the same glowing symbol men saw for thousands of years in the night sky, which we can't see properly nowadays because of all the electric light we now use in our cities and towns. You would need to go to the desert or deep woods to see it properly.

And this light has got nothing to do with any fake aliens.

Post: #311

(03-28-2017 05:03 AM)Mage Wrote:  Yeah, sometimes science is wrong but always corrects itself some time later.

That's the main problem.
Science keeps changing its story like a pathological liar who keeps getting caught out in his own lies.

Established religions and ancient mytholgies never change their stories and explanations.

Science has value, I don't dispute that.
For the last 70 years or so its outrageous claims regarding whats outside the earth cannot be tested or verified by common people.


So science has become its own faith.

Science is now scientism and scientists are the new priests.

Since you can't verify what they say is true regarding outer space, you either believe it or you don't.

Post: #312

^ yup.

Post: #313

(03-28-2017 05:08 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  It might be the same glowing symbol men saw for thousands of years in the night sky, which we can't see properly nowadays because of all the electric light we now use in our cities and towns. You would need to go to the desert or deep woods to see it properly.

Then it would have been recorded and probably used for navigation, along with hundreds of other stars and constellations.

Or worshipped, if it was that distinctive.

Post: #314

"I had a look at the photos of that website you linked....the "satellites" just look like blurry blobs on a black background.
The space station images we see through a telescope don't have enough detail enough to prove that's what I'm really looking at. "

Well go back and actually look at all of them. A few it is completely clear that they are satellites.

"Fireballs aren't necessarily a giant stone coming towards earth. That's the difference. It's just fire without the stone."

And how is this any more reasonable than an asteroid? And what is the fuel for the fire?

Post: #315

(03-28-2017 07:06 AM)Repo Wrote:  Well go back and actually look at all of them. A few it is completely clear that they are satellites.

Just find some photos that actually show satellites photographed FROM EARTH with a telescope that shows them CLEARLY and in DETAIL and post them in this thread, and we can discuss. Alternatively find some photos (or videos) of the international space station from space that show all the thousands of satellites orbiting round the earth.

Here's a supposed live stream of NASA of the space station orbiting earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzMQza8xZCc

Not a single fucking earth orbiting satellite to be seen anywhere.
There are supposed to be hundreds of these things up there....how come I cant see even 1 bloody satellite in this livestream or in the NASA photos ?

(03-28-2017 07:06 AM)Repo Wrote:  And how is this any more reasonable than an asteroid? And what is the fuel for the fire?

There "fuel" of the fireball is the real mystery here.

(03-28-2017 06:32 AM)roberto Wrote:  Then it would have been recorded and probably used for navigation, along with hundreds of other stars and constellations.

Or worshipped, if it was that distinctive.

I agree with you roberto.
However, the prevalence and worship of the swatiska cross is so many different cultures and religions worldwide cannot be dimissed as pure coincidence. Which leads me to believe that:

a) It is a light which cannot be seen from all parts of the earth at the same time. Strongly indicating that it is moving.

and/or

b) It is a light that only appears in the sky at specific intervals in history rather than being there all the time.

and/or

c) It is a light not all people can see with the naked eye. Only certain individuals can see it without a telescope, and even then people will see different things.



Despite what many people may think, variations between human sight can actually be quite profound. Not just in regard to who needs glasses and who doesn't, but also especially regarding colours and contrast.

As a simple example - you all remember the viral "controversy" from February 2015 regarding whether the colour of this dress is blue or gold ?



(Without sounding like I am bragging, I want to say that I have managed to make myself see both colours within the same minute of looking at it. Not both at the same time, but first one colour like blue, then the other colour of gold and then back again to blue. (Or vice versa). I'm still not sure how I did that, but it just goes to show that humans can see things in very different ways.)

Post: #316

"Just find some photos that actually show satellites photographed FROM EARTH with a telescope that shows them CLEARLY and in DETAIL and post them in this thread, and we can discuss. Alternatively find some photos (or videos) of the international space station from space that show all the thousands of satellites orbiting round the earth."

Not sure what you mean, I posted that already. See pics 11,13, and 14.

Also, not sure why you would expect to see the satellites orbiting the earth from the ISS, unless if they were specifically targeted. I'll refer you to this for a more detailed explanation, as this question has been asked and answered many times, so as someone who spends as much time on this as you do I am surprised you asked it.

https://www.quora.com/Why-dont-ISS-photo...ting-Earth


"There "fuel" of the fireball is the real mystery here."

Again, what makes this theory more feasible than asteroids? You are arguing that instead of rocks flying around in space, there is some type of solid fuel source flying around in space? How does this help with flat earth at all, even if it were true?

Also, as I said several pages ago, we knew Earth was round before NASA or even the US existed, so narrowing in on pictures of space is odd. Even if we lied about going to the moon, have never actually been to space, etc etc, there are stills proofs that the earth is round.

Lastly, did you know that you can actually attend rocket launches where they send satellites into space? Maybe you should look into buying/renting some gear and seeing for yourself.

Post: #317

(03-28-2017 08:10 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 07:06 AM)Repo Wrote:  Well go back and actually look at all of them. A few it is completely clear that they are satellites.

Just find some photos that actually show satellites photographed FROM EARTH with a telescope that shows them CLEARLY and in DETAIL and post them in this thread, and we can discuss. Alternatively find some photos (or videos) of the international space station from space that show all the thousands of satellites orbiting round the earth.

Here's a supposed live stream of NASA of the space station orbiting earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzMQza8xZCc

Not a single fucking earth orbiting satellite to be seen anywhere.
There are supposed to be hundreds of these things up there....how come I cant see even 1 bloody satellite in this livestream or in the NASA photos ?

Satellites are objects about 10' across, too small to see in the daytime, or against the lit surface of the earth.

There are THOUSANDS of large boats on the oceans at all time, many hundreds of feet long, or many, many times larger than a satellite. The fact that you don't see them on the satellite footage doesn't mean they don't exist, or that the footage is fake. It's a basic issue of definition and optics.

Post: #318

An excerpt from the link I posted:

"What makes you think that none of the photos show satellites?

Just because the ISS is in space doesn't mean it is much closer to satellites than we are on the ground. 45% of the operational satellites are in orbits more than 35,000 km above the ISS. Another 5% are in orbits around 20,000 km above the ISS. In a picture they would look like stars. We would only really recognize they weren't stars if the picture had a long enough exposure that trails were evident and the satellites trail would not align with those of the stars.

As for the rest, that are in low Earth orbit (LEO), even they will be hundreds of km away from the ISS and also be mere bright points of light, and the closer they are, the faster they would move across the sky.

Space is bigger than we imagine. Don't imagine it as a crowded highway of satellites. There are around 1100 operational satellites and around 2600 inoperational satellites, so around 3700, total. The surface area of the Earth is 510,000,000 square kilometers. So, if we were to take all of those satellites and place them on the Earth's surface - evenly spaced - each satellite would have about 137,800 square kilometers all to itself. That's an area about the size of the state of Arkansas. Up in orbit we are talking about a much bigger surface area, in fact we are talking about a volume so satellites can be much farther from each other.

Look closely at the thousands of images of stars from the ISS and you'll see satellites, they'll just be small."

Post: #319

(03-28-2017 05:17 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 05:03 AM)Mage Wrote:  Yeah, sometimes science is wrong but always corrects itself some time later.

That's the main problem.
Science keeps changing its story like a pathological liar who keeps getting caught out in his own lies.

Established religions and ancient mytholgies never change their stories and explanations.

Science has value, I don't dispute that.
For the last 70 years or so its outrageous claims regarding whats outside the earth cannot be tested or verified by common people.


So science has become its own faith.

Science is now scientism and scientists are the new priests.

Since you can't verify what they say is true regarding outer space, you either believe it or you don't.

No this is not how it is.
Science changing is a good, not a bad thing, it can admit it's mistakes. Science also doesn't do 180 degree flips. It just deviates a little then corrects it course.

Faiths who cannot change die off or they change and hope their followers will not notice. Most religions suffer from the belief that their revelation is the final one, that makes them rigid and violent. Science never claims it has reached total knowledge like faith does. This is why there have never been wars fueled by scientific disagreement but there are constant wars fueled by religious disagreement.

You speak like this because you yourself have no part in either science or religion. You just consume the created product of both of them. Have you ever written a scientific paper or done any research? Have you ever created a new philosophical idea? No you haven't and you speak like a consumer who has little knowledge about the inner workings and just creates conspiracy theories about it. Do you have a science degree? If you are not able to get one you really shouldn't criticize.

(03-28-2017 05:08 AM)Mercenary Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 04:46 AM)Mage Wrote:  Spirituality is not seeing crosses in space stations...

What I am proposing is that there MIGHT be no space station at all....but simply a bright glowing moving light in the sky that LOOKS like a cross or swastika, which they claim is a space station.

It might be the same glowing symbol men saw for thousands of years in the night sky, which we can't see properly nowadays because of all the electric light we now use in our cities and towns. You would need to go to the desert or deep woods to see it properly.

And this light has got nothing to do with any fake aliens.

This is another gem that betrays you as an armchair theoretic - a victim of internet misinformation and overwhelming amount of information.

From your text it fallows that you have never even been far enough from civilization to see natural sky.

I have - and I haven't seen any crosses in sky aside from imaginary constellation lines. I have looked at beautiful night time sky and felt amazed about the many worlds that are so far and who are so big that we still see them as tiny dots in sky. I have seen Milky Way - the axis of our Galaxy (or as some say the galaxy ours is crossing right now) - how does your flat earth explain that btw? Really looking at clear night sky is beautiful experience as is not hearing any sounds of civilization that is nowhere in radius for tens of miles. It is a beautiful experience to be this small person and gaze in the never ending depth of Cosmos. If it all would turn out to be just a painted dome I would feel very cheated and neither my mind nor my heart believes in this small limited world you propose.

I already told you why crosses appear in many cultures - they are innate to our mind. They exist because we map the reality in three dimensions. They exist because our minds have the ability to reason about two independent polarities at once. These polarities might be mundane events and spiritual events or feminine and masculine or mass and speed or whatever really, crosses are a natural symbol for our mind with deep meaning about or cognitive process. The peak of this ability of mind to measure two values on two axis is coordinate system of Rene Descartes, the so called Cartesian system which is essential part of science. It has nothing to do with aliens. It is as human as it gets.

Btw - Swastika is a symbol that clearly implies rotation and thus round Sun and round Earth.

Post: #320

Definitely looks flat.

Post: #321

Wait, we actually got people believing the earth is flat on this site?
Or are you guys arguing just for fun?

Post: #322

(05-01-2017 06:49 AM)pants Wrote:  Wait, we actually got people believing the earth is flat on this site?
Or are you guys arguing just for fun?

I just discovered we even have guys belonging to creepy doomsday cults like Bahai faith. We also have at least one Muslim and at least one Communist.

Waiting for a Scientologist to come out of the closet.

Post: #323

Communist? Really?

Post: #324

(04-28-2017 09:50 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  



Definitely looks flat.

ZERO stars to be seen anywhere in the black space portion of all those videos.
I can see more stars just with my own eyes from my backyard in the evening.

Also - Where the hell are the 7000 satellites and 23,000 thousand pieces of "space junk" flying around the earth ? No trace of those either.

Source:

Quote:...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39521406


The race to destroy space garbage
By Jane O'Brien
BBC News,
Washington

8 April 2017

Millions of pieces of human-made trash are now orbiting the Earth. Some are tiny, others are large enough to be seen with a telescope, but all pose a risk to space craft and satellites. And according to experts the threat is growing as space becomes more and more crowded. Some 23,000 pieces of space junk are large enough to be tracked by the US Space Surveillance Network. But most objects are under 10cm (4in) in diameter and can't be monitored. Even something the size of a paper clip can cause catastrophic damage.
[....]
More than 7,000 satellites have been put into space but only 1,500 are currently functioning. And within the next decade the number could increase to 18,000 with the planned launch of mega-constellations - large groups of satellites aimed at improving global internet coverage.

If they are further away from the earth as some people have claimed, then at least 1 one them should give us a full video of the ENTIRE globe doing a full 24 hour rotation.

Post: #325

(05-19-2014 08:43 PM)ryanf Wrote:  1. Motive
2. Opportunity

It's easy to throw out almost all conspiracy type theories by looking at #1. Most of the time, what is the motive for something like a round earth conspiracy? What's to be gained? It's the same reason I laugh whenever people talk about Illuminati symbolism in music videos and politics. Is there an illuminati rule that you always have to be making ever-so-vague references to the symbols, for no apparent personal gain?

Actually there is. It's believed that amongst the elite, they have spiritual rules/rituals that they must adhere to. Whether these rules are actually true doesn't matter but the elite BELIEVE it's true therefore they strictly adhere to them. Just like a Muslim blowing himself up for 72 virgins it doesn't matter if it's true or not, it matters that they BELIEVE it's true enough to act on it.

So among conspiracy circles, it's believed that the elite believe they must reveal portions of their plans and rituals to the human population in order to complete their plans. Part of them ruling the planet is that they have to reveal in some way what they're doing. That's why there are movies, tv shows, and music videos with a lot of weird and disturbing imagery. It's the elite hiding their plans in plain sight so they can adhere to their rituals they put so much stock in.

It's also related to predictive programming and media in which the elite will hide some of their plans for the future. Some say it's to condition the human populace for what's to come. But it can also be tied in to their law of revelation.

Another perspective is the elite HAVE to reveal their plans to us to fulfill some weird cosmic/spiritual contract where we the populace have to CONSENT to being ruled by them. So when they reveal their plans and hide things in plain sight for us and we don't revolt, it means on a spiritual and subconscious level we're giving them consent to rule us.

Those are just a few reasons why the elite might embed symbolism in stuff like tv, music, politics, etc. When you think about it it's not that silly or stupid. It's not for personal gain. It's something they feel strongly they MUST do and to not do it would be sacrilege. It's literally part of their belief system just like a Muslim fasts for Ramadan.