Post: #26

(04-12-2014 10:32 AM)The Father Wrote:  I literally had two grown men cry in my office this week. Both are early thiries. They are very bright, making well into the 6 figures. I don't want to get into too much detail for anonymity reasons, but let's just say neither was terminated or reprimanded in any way. But you would think they were just told they had 2 months to live! Bawling like babies.

This is the appropriate response to a grown man crying in your office.





I can't even begin to fathom the though of crying at my job. Cry in my line of work, and you basically have to quit as you will lose any and all respect from everyone, and you'll never regain it.

BTW, what is your location, and roughly, what kind of work do you do? Nothing super specific, just some basics.

Post: #27

That's one of my concerns: This guy has made himself look like such a pussy to everyone in the office, that he'll probably just quit and start over. I've spent years training him, bringing him along, and he's learned a lot. And he's a smart guy.

Post: #28

(04-12-2014 03:32 PM)The Father Wrote:  That's one of my concerns: This guy has made himself look like such a pussy to everyone in the office, that he'll probably just quit and start over. I've spent years training him, bringing him along, and he's learned a lot. And he's a smart guy.

I live in the Northeast and work in an a white-collar office.

This is a perfect opportunity for using a little win/win game.

Find a way to take the guy aside and tell him something along the lines that seeing him show vulnerability in this way has increased your respect and your trust in him -- because he's always been so calm, competent and rational, it was both startling and good to see his human side.

It doesn't matter if this is in part a lie -- it's not a complete lie because it sounds like you actually like the guy to some extent. And it's a great thing to do in every way. There is nothing like the magic of taking a situation that someone finds almost unbearably embarrassing, and making it disappear completely -- indeed, making it seem like an experience that draws two people closer together. It will make the guy eternally grateful to you, and it will lift up his spirit and probably his productivity. And if he feels that you've released him from the burden of a gaffe that he committed, you can, over time, influence him in subtle ways and make him a stronger and better man.

Sometimes the only way to change someone who is weak or insecure is to show that you accept them completely and unconditionally. It has to be sincere or felt at least to some extent -- but if it is, it can bring forth great and surprising fruits over time. Once you've done something like this for a man, you can tell him almost anything later -- and he will listen.

Post: #29

(04-12-2014 12:38 PM)Faust Wrote:  I don't think I've ever seen any of my friends cry in public either. I'm neither a badass, nor a particularly unemotional guy, so I'm not saying this to boast. I simply haven't seen what you're talking about.

That's good!

Post: #30

(04-12-2014 01:05 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Early 30's... technically they're Generation X. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_X

I was born in 1979. Neither me nor my friends consider ourselves to be millenials. It seems like a different generation to us.

It's amazing how close in age we are to them yet how different we are at the same time. Moores law. It's just going to get worse and worse quicker and quicker.

Post: #31

So I have a question for the rest of the forum:
Has anyone else personally experienced behavior like The Father described in his first post? I see a lot of things in the news about how horrible Millenials are, but I'm interested to know if anyone else here has personal experience of the type of stuff that they describe.

Post: #32

I've seen this happen in the workplace, but with mainly women. They take every criticism personally, while to men, business is just business.

Post: #33

(04-13-2014 05:34 PM)Faust Wrote:  So I have a question for the rest of the forum:
Has anyone else personally experienced behavior like The Father described in his first post? I see a lot of things in the news about how horrible Millenials are, but I'm interested to know if anyone else here has personal experience of the type of stuff that they describe.

Oh yeah. I've seen it and won't touch those mama boy pussies with a ten foot pole at my job ( have to work and finish stuff) I hire 38 +

Post: #34

I'll go as far as to say I'd rather hire a retired guy in his late 60s part time over those little lady men having their parents calling me to settle their beefs with me and the other guys. Hell no.

Post: #35

Not sure about kids younger than us, but for the younger section of the millenials as we like to call them(16-21) the males can be divided into two categories. The first being the natural beta. This is just like your average crying twat whom feels they are special just like everyone else. The second category is the most dangerous and they are the natural alpha. They see through all the bullshit, and know who the real loser in each situation is. They don't hesitate to put the loser under him and use him as a pawn or gain something at their expense. Everything is hidden as a facade on the surface with smiles and handshakes, but when looking at the grimy underbelly you get what is really happening as the wolves feast on the sheep. The alphas compete and only convey their real thoughts with their inner circle while the betas are fodder to use. It's twisted these days, and every smart "alpha" is not afraid to use anyone else for their profit. Camaraderie and brotherhood is only between a few close friends, and even then it is subject to be terminated. The boomers really goofed with what they created. The female hierarchy is even more twisted, and I can only imagine how nasty it really is. We literally have socially adept males(whom may not be book smart but know strategy) who are playing social warfare on a day to day basis. It's interesting, but not fun to watch as there is always a Cold War type setting until something breaks out. Of course everything is "politically correct" with veiled secret meanings to what is really happening.

Edit: Crying is also seen as social suicide amongst the latter category. A lot of emotion is faked thanks to constant texting and social media, thus leading to the death of camaraderie.

Post: #36

I've seen multiple examples of actions similar to the OP's post.

I'm in my 20's and I can't stand most of my generation, but I'm pretty social and make friends easily so it seems to balance out. Girls always tell me I'm blessed to have such a large group that's got my back, and how tight I am with buddies of all ages, so I try to never take that for granted.

Scorpion nailed it per usual, Samseau alluded to the helplessness in terms of the economy, but I think what some people don't focus on is the degree of self-loathing going on.

We sometimes talk about this with feminist women, but guys my age were raised on so many conflicting viewpoints, the first generation completely immersed in a feminized school system, media and society, that there is a large amount of them walking around with unfounded shame and guilt.

They've been taught that all their natural desires are wrong, and that just by virtue of being male, they've been contributing to the world's problems since birth.

You can talk to a 22 year old guy, who will think going after a 19 year old girl immediately equals taking advantage of her, even if she's throwing out tons of signs.

Men who have serious crises of conscience over whether to go full vegan or "only" vegetarian, plainly just accepting that they are part of a horrible disease on nature called "humanity". Ask your parents if any of their classes included "Ecofeminism" under the Political Science banner. So you can see how that throws stuff like hunting right out the window as a right of passage.

By focusing on bullshit in school like moral relativism, ethnocentrism, sexism etc. under the guise of "critical thinking" , you have a whole generation constantly second guessing themselves. The big difference being that women have victim status so they are able to rationalize their actions in ways that men can't.

Men used to be able to look up to other men as leaders, heroes, etc., but now that's only permissible if they pass on various tests of political correctness. Ask the young gen about certain historical figures, some of the first things you'd hear is "but, ____cheated on his wife, _____ believed homosexuality was unnatural, _____ wouldn't hire women, etc." As if this immediately invalidates anything they had ever accomplished.

I had a girl once tell me I was "emotionally abusive" when she realized she was losing an argument where she was clearly in the wrong, and I hadn't done anything towards her except call her on it. There'd be a decent chunk of guys in my generation where that statement would actually prompt some soul-searching, and an immediate beta reversal.

At risk of preaching to the choir, I could continue with many other examples, and explore what I call the "Big 3" ways of coping (Entertainment Media, Porn, and Weed) but let's look at some solutions where people can take action:


- You see a guy out in public, if you get in a casual conversation with him about any of the above and see a glint of interest, have him write down the forum website. I've let guys tag along at bars if I could see they weren't having a good night with the ladies, but told them most of their answers could be found here on the RVF.

- If you have traditional male skills, offer to teach or mentor (i.e. gym spotter, hunting guide, sparring partner)

- Find out what they're passionate about, and see if there's an angle there to explore Red Pill beliefs

- Openly ask them about some of these more private topics. Guys in this generation may walk on eggshells, but once they know they're having a conversation in confidence with a man they can look up to, a lot will come spilling out. Especially since they probably can't talk to their parents about it, and they're wishing their Dad had already taught them years ago.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting trying to convert determined Blue Pill and White Knight types. Tuth and others have already done a good job pointing out the flaws in that strategy.

What I'm getting at is that the younger generation isn't always assertive enough to ask for help, they probably feel embarrassed as it is. So reaching out to the odd acquaintance, relative, etc. if you get a glimmer of potential can really turn their life around.

Post: #37

My brother is like this, he's fifteen, and one of the most spoiled kids I've ever met. He can't handle any criticism, and constantly makes bullshit excuses for everything. He's had most everything practically handed to him in his life but he plays the victim card like a feminist. I don't know where he got it, becuase all of our family is pretty conservative, and we've tried to teach him otherwise, so I guess the only answer is the public school system. It blows my mind.

Post: #38

(04-13-2014 06:51 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  I've seen multiple examples of actions similar to the OP's post.

I'm in my 20's and I can't stand most of my generation, but I'm pretty social and make friends easily so it seems to balance out. Girls always tell me I'm blessed to have such a large group that's got my back, and how tight I am with buddies of all ages, so I try to never take that for granted.

Scorpion nailed it per usual, Samseau alluded to the helplessness in terms of the economy, but I think what some people don't focus on is the degree of self-loathing going on.

We sometimes talk about this with feminist women, but guys my age were raised on so many conflicting viewpoints, the first generation completely immersed in a feminized school system, media and society, that there is a large amount of them walking around with unfounded shame and guilt.

They've been taught that all their natural desires are wrong, and that just by virtue of being male, they've been contributing to the world's problems since birth.

You can talk to a 22 year old guy, who will think going after a 19 year old girl immediately equals taking advantage of her, even if she's throwing out tons of signs.

Men who have serious crises of conscience over whether to go full vegan or "only" vegetarian, plainly just accepting that they are part of a horrible disease on nature called "humanity". Ask your parents if any of their classes included "Ecofeminism" under the Political Science banner. So you can see how that throws stuff like hunting right out the window as a right of passage.

By focusing on bullshit in school like moral relativism, ethnocentrism, sexism etc. under the guise of "critical thinking" , you have a whole generation constantly second guessing themselves. The big difference being that women have victim status so they are able to rationalize their actions in ways that men can't.

Men used to be able to look up to other men as leaders, heroes, etc., but now that's only permissible if they pass on various tests of political correctness. Ask the young gen about certain historical figures, some of the first things you'd hear is "but, ____cheated on his wife, _____ believed homosexuality was unnatural, _____ wouldn't hire women, etc." As if this immediately invalidates anything they had ever accomplished.

I had a girl once tell me I was "emotionally abusive" when she realized she was losing an argument where she was clearly in the wrong, and I hadn't done anything towards her except call her on it. There'd be a decent chunk of guys in my generation where that statement would actually prompt some soul-searching, and an immediate beta reversal.

At risk of preaching to the choir, I could continue with many other examples, and explore what I call the "Big 3" ways of coping (Entertainment Media, Porn, and Weed) but let's look at some solutions where people can take action:


- You see a guy out in public, if you get in a casual conversation with him about any of the above and see a glint of interest, have him write down the forum website. I've let guys tag along at bars if I could see they weren't having a good night with the ladies, but told them most of their answers could be found here on the RVF.

- If you have traditional male skills, offer to teach or mentor (i.e. gym spotter, hunting guide, sparring partner)

- Find out what they're passionate about, and see if there's an angle there to explore Red Pill beliefs

- Openly ask them about some of these more private topics. Guys in this generation may walk on eggshells, but once they know they're having a conversation in confidence with a man they can look up to, a lot will come spilling out. Especially since they probably can't talk to their parents about it, and they're wishing their Dad had already taught them years ago.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting trying to convert determined Blue Pill and White Knight types. Tuth and others have already done a good job pointing out the flaws in that strategy.

What I'm getting at is that the younger generation isn't always assertive enough to ask for help, they probably feel embarrassed as it is. So reaching out to the odd acquaintance, relative, etc. if you get a glimmer of potential can really turn their life around.

This is a brilliant post which contains precious and important observations. It's one of those posts that I wish I could make a sticky on the forum.

+1 rep (overdue in any case...)

Post: #39

(04-13-2014 09:36 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 06:51 PM)LeBeau Wrote:  I've seen multiple examples of actions similar to the OP's post.

I'm in my 20's and I can't stand most of my generation, but I'm pretty social and make friends easily so it seems to balance out. Girls always tell me I'm blessed to have such a large group that's got my back, and how tight I am with buddies of all ages, so I try to never take that for granted.

Scorpion nailed it per usual, Samseau alluded to the helplessness in terms of the economy, but I think what some people don't focus on is the degree of self-loathing going on.

We sometimes talk about this with feminist women, but guys my age were raised on so many conflicting viewpoints, the first generation completely immersed in a feminized school system, media and society, that there is a large amount of them walking around with unfounded shame and guilt.

They've been taught that all their natural desires are wrong, and that just by virtue of being male, they've been contributing to the world's problems since birth.

You can talk to a 22 year old guy, who will think going after a 19 year old girl immediately equals taking advantage of her, even if she's throwing out tons of signs.

Men who have serious crises of conscience over whether to go full vegan or "only" vegetarian, plainly just accepting that they are part of a horrible disease on nature called "humanity". Ask your parents if any of their classes included "Ecofeminism" under the Political Science banner. So you can see how that throws stuff like hunting right out the window as a right of passage.

By focusing on bullshit in school like moral relativism, ethnocentrism, sexism etc. under the guise of "critical thinking" , you have a whole generation constantly second guessing themselves. The big difference being that women have victim status so they are able to rationalize their actions in ways that men can't.

Men used to be able to look up to other men as leaders, heroes, etc., but now that's only permissible if they pass on various tests of political correctness. Ask the young gen about certain historical figures, some of the first things you'd hear is "but, ____cheated on his wife, _____ believed homosexuality was unnatural, _____ wouldn't hire women, etc." As if this immediately invalidates anything they had ever accomplished.

I had a girl once tell me I was "emotionally abusive" when she realized she was losing an argument where she was clearly in the wrong, and I hadn't done anything towards her except call her on it. There'd be a decent chunk of guys in my generation where that statement would actually prompt some soul-searching, and an immediate beta reversal.

At risk of preaching to the choir, I could continue with many other examples, and explore what I call the "Big 3" ways of coping (Entertainment Media, Porn, and Weed) but let's look at some solutions where people can take action:


- You see a guy out in public, if you get in a casual conversation with him about any of the above and see a glint of interest, have him write down the forum website. I've let guys tag along at bars if I could see they weren't having a good night with the ladies, but told them most of their answers could be found here on the RVF.

- If you have traditional male skills, offer to teach or mentor (i.e. gym spotter, hunting guide, sparring partner)

- Find out what they're passionate about, and see if there's an angle there to explore Red Pill beliefs

- Openly ask them about some of these more private topics. Guys in this generation may walk on eggshells, but once they know they're having a conversation in confidence with a man they can look up to, a lot will come spilling out. Especially since they probably can't talk to their parents about it, and they're wishing their Dad had already taught them years ago.

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting trying to convert determined Blue Pill and White Knight types. Tuth and others have already done a good job pointing out the flaws in that strategy.

What I'm getting at is that the younger generation isn't always assertive enough to ask for help, they probably feel embarrassed as it is. So reaching out to the odd acquaintance, relative, etc. if you get a glimmer of potential can really turn their life around.

This is a brilliant post which contains precious and important observations. It's one of those posts that I wish I could make a sticky on the forum.

+1 rep (overdue in any case...)

This is truly a great post to explain millenials. I am at the older end at age 30, and this just rings so true with me. As I've gone more red pill and occasionally talked to teenagers and guys in their early 20s, there is a real thirst for some mentorship - provided that they respect you. Otherwise you're just another old greybeard telling them a bunch of old antiquated shit.

Post: #40

(04-13-2014 06:21 PM)Sombro Wrote:  I've seen this happen in the workplace, but with mainly women. They take every criticism personally, while to men, business is just business.

That, in my view, is NOT a generational issue: Women have always taken criticism personally.

Post: #41

(04-13-2014 10:09 PM)Tytalus Wrote:  there is a real thirst for some mentorship - provided that they respect you. Otherwise you're just another old greybeard telling them a bunch of old antiquated shit.

Which most of the little shits should listen to, anyway...it might not be useful, but perhaps it will displace some of the really limiting stuff in their brains now.

Post: #42

(04-13-2014 10:19 PM)The Father Wrote:  

(04-13-2014 06:21 PM)Sombro Wrote:  I've seen this happen in the workplace, but with mainly women. They take every criticism personally, while to men, business is just business.

That, in my view, is NOT a generational issue: Women have always taken criticism personally.

Correct. Though i've only seen the behavior with Millennial women.

I work in sales, so it's sink or swim. Dudes who can't deliver bail or get fired. Chicks seem to extend their tenure thru the display of tears, but it never lasts.

Post: #43

This article sums up a lot of the issues in this thread very well, I've included a few excerpts, hope it gets a lot of attention:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9376...mfortable/

Quote:Free speech is so last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’

Student unions’ ‘no platform’ policy is expanding to cover pretty much anyone whose views don’t fit prevailing groupthink

Quote:Have you met the Stepford students? They’re everywhere. On campuses across the land. Sitting stony-eyed in lecture halls or surreptitiously policing beer-fuelled banter in the uni bar. They look like students, dress like students, smell like students. But their student brains have been replaced by brains bereft of critical faculties and programmed to conform. To the untrained eye, they seem like your average book-devouring, ideas-discussing, H&M-adorned youth, but anyone who’s spent more than five minutes in their company will know that these students are far more interested in shutting debate down than opening it up.

Quote:Their eyes glazed with moral certainty, they explained to me at length that culture warps minds and shapes behaviour and that is why it is right for students to strive to keep such wicked, misogynistic stuff as the Sun newspaper and sexist pop music off campus. ‘We have the right to feel comfortable,’ they all said, like a mantra. One — a bloke — said that the compulsory sexual consent classes recently introduced for freshers at Cambridge, to teach what is and what isn’t rape, were a great idea because they might weed out ‘pre-rapists’: men who haven’t raped anyone but might. The others nodded. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Pre-rapists! Had any of them read Philip K. Dick’s dystopian novella about a wicked world that hunts down and punishes pre-criminals, I asked? None had.

Quote:Barely a week goes by without reports of something ‘offensive’ being banned by students. Robin Thicke’s rude pop ditty ‘Blurred Lines’ has been banned in more than 20 universities. Student officials at Balliol College, Oxford, justified their ban as a means of ‘prioritising the wellbeing of our students’. Apparently a three-minute pop song can harm students’ health. More than 30 student unions have banned the Sun, on the basis that Page Three could turn all those pre-rapists into actual rapists. Radical feminist students once burned their bras — now they insist that models put bras on. The union at UCL banned the Nietzsche Society on the grounds that its existence threatened ‘the safety of the UCL student body’.

Quote:The censoriousness has reached its nadir in the rise of the ‘safe space’ policy. Loads of student unions have colonised vast swaths of their campuses and declared them ‘safe spaces’ — that is, places where no student should ever be made to feel threatened, unwelcome or belittled, whether by banter, bad thinking or ‘Blurred Lines’. Safety from physical assault is one thing — but safety from words, ideas, Zionists, lads, pop music, Nietzsche? We seem to have nurtured a new generation that believes its self-esteem is more important than everyone else’s liberty.

Post: #44

Cultural marxism, single parenthood, divorce, consumerism, the media, technology and the demonization of masculinity has completely screwed up both men and women in this country.

Add in the fact that most teachers in this country (around 80%) are females with lib art degrees and lean heavily left and you get a generation of basket cases. Although I'd argue the Gen X'ers and Boomers are screwed up in other ways.

I feel even worse for the next generation. It's so odd to see kids playing outside these days that cops shoot them for playing with toy guns like my friends and I used to. It's become so unusual to see a kid unattended that they arrest their parents for letting them walk around by themselves.

Slowly but surely we're becoming a totalitarian society. All the checks and balances in place have slowed it down but they cannot stop the poison.

It's all by design.

Post: #45

I'm pretty sure every generation called the succeeding generation "a bunch of pussies".

10 generations ago people were fighting animals, traveling on horses, and shit.

The 38+ year old generation had mostly 40/hr a week jobs and roads and the generation before them had to ride it out on crappy roads and cars without airbags. The ones before them? Riding trains and living without constant electricity, no airplanes either.

Post: #46

Even millenials that go to the gym, many tend to do the same workout routine as women, they go, do aerobics, bicycle, yoga, they don't even lift, they never touch a wrench.

Post: #47

I work in the leisure industry and employ plenty of early twenties fighters...I repeat again, fighters...people one would expect to be tough and full of testosterone and alpha male pride.

In the last 6 months I have experienced:

A 22 year old's mum calling me because of something her son was unhappy about

A 21 year old's mum calling me to arrange some important government paperwork for him as he couldn't seem to remember or care himself

A 21 year old cry and fabricate stories about a terminated pregnancy to try and explain poor performance and time keeping

A 22 year old try and bring his girlfriend to work as he couldn't seem to be apart from her for more than 5 minutes

A 20 year old on the verge of tears after I told him he really should shower every day and not just because he has a customer facing role

A 22 year old unable to ever take part in any team building events or come in outside of his contracted hours because his ugly girlfriend wouldn't allow it.

A 21 year old unable to accept that his sudden conversion to Islam a few weeks before wasn't gonna fly as an excuse to do nothing during Ramadan (very convenient). Also kicked up a fuss because I wouldn't allow copies of the Qu'ran to be scattered around the building on top shelves.

The list goes on and on.

I've pretty much given up on the whole generation (I'm early 30s)

Post: #48

I've made some mentions in other threads about the state of the millenial generation. Being one in it myself, you need to learn to weed out the bad from the good. I work a very blue collar job that carries a lot of responsibility and dangers of losing your life. It's great for self reflection and hardening up. I refuse to surround myself with emotionally weak males. I just don't have the time or patience for pussies. I'm astounded by these guys that try to push around the macho mind set but are so easily caught up in drama and emotions. I've been reprimanded and scolded over my non-pc views and told I need to be more sympathetic towards other people, because they aren't as mentally tough or whatever other liberal adjective they throw at me. I just avoid these people now, no hello, not even a nod of my head. It's these precious little snowflakes that's are so wounded by the smallest of things, it's disgusting. I have told many college kids to drop the keyboard and to pic up a wrench. They'd be much better off.

To finish off, this is the background of my phone. A constant reminder of not being a pussy.

Post: #49

I used to be one of these emotionally unstable Millennials that we are all talking about. Crying all the time and basically acting like a little bitch. I chalked it up to the fact that my parents are dead (mother is literally dead and father is figuratively dead to me). I had a father in name only in my late teens and after my mother passed away, he became a massive piece of shit who used me for money even though I had very little as a student. I never really had any guidance or a support system. I was pretty entrenched in blue pill ideology. I always had to support myself (and sometimes my own father) while in school earning my doctorate.

Reading some of these horror stories (like Millennials having their parents talk to their employers), I realize I wasn't that bad. Many of my friends who are my age (28) talk about how they live at home and their parents help them so much. All I can think to myself is "that must be nice." I have very little respect for most of the people like that considering the fact that I never had a social safety net like they had. I had to make things happen on my own. I was frequently depressed though and often suicidal. Always trying to take anti-depressants to solve the problem. While I had no trouble getting laid (after undergrad), I realize now that my happiness was very dependent on women. When I had a gf, I was happy (for a time) and when I was single, I was depressed. My politics weren't bad though. I was libertarian and then when Ron Paul came along, I began my red pill journey to where I am now. I began understanding the role feminism played in the culture. Eventually through blogs/Youtubers I followed, I found RVF. All I can say is that this place has been a Godsend. I began reading books like The Rational Male and The Way of Men. I began to get in touch with my masculinity. I began lifting weights, reading good books, learning game (though I will admit I am still a coward who is working on approach anxiety which cripples me). For the first time in my life I feel content with who I am as a man, my mission in life, and where I am going. It couldn't have come at a better time because I was turning to alcoholism to feel better. This is dangerous. I work alone, I live alone, I spend nearly 95% of my time completely alone. Being like this and severely depressed and attempting to use the bottle to cure it was a recipe for disaster.

Sadly, I think that you cannot force the red pill onto people. It has to be a journey to appreciate it. Most people are entrenched in their blue pill ways and generally avoid any controversial topics. I have tried seeding the red pill into the minds of my friends by recommending certain blogs or books but they generally ignore them. They are unwilling to put in the time to read. They want to be "nice" guys.

I can honestly say that this community saved my life. It's not for everyone though. You have to seek it out.

Post: #50

I seem to be in the heart of the millenial generation (30) and I have always - ALWAYS - had a better interaction with folks older than me by about 20-30 years. With the exception of a literal handful of friends who are like-minded, I really have nothing in common with people my age.