Post: #101

Going to the pool hall across from Webster hall to shoot some pool and then griffin.

Post: #102

Nice man, I've got two dates in the works tonight. Have fun though! Thanks for the invite.

Also, if you've chilled a lot in Brooklyn, you've probably already hung out with me inadvertently.

Post: #103

(03-28-2014 09:01 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:  You guys really took it personal when Ali said "fuck everyone who didn't serve!"? It was obvious to me he was just joking and on a rant because he got screwed by the system. If we were at the bar and he said that I would be like fuck you too Ali. And that's my guy.

I never served anything and I laughed when I read that.

Nah, I took it as joking too and thought the posts were funny. I laughed as well, and I'd probably have the same response if a friend said that at a bar.

That said, I've been tight with enough vets to know that there are quite a few that really do feel that way, and there's some truth behind the jokes, as there often is with males. If you don't think so, try turning it into a serious conversation over a couple beers and see what comes out (the resulting tension might remind you why political conversation is a bad idea in bars).

It's not uncommon for vets to feel neglected and disillusioned by the system and get anti-government while at the same time hating on other guys who "didn't serve." It's no surprise - they defended that system for years and it's hard to completely detach yourself from your previous actions. It's human nature to be congruent.

I was actually more bothered by the "faggots and writers" who don't contribute to the tax base comments. haha Not just because I'm a writer (thought that's probably why it got my attention) but because Ali was essentially digging on guys who opt out of the traditional career plan even as he announces his own decision to opt out.

Was just trying to make a point that many people don't serve or don't work a traditional career that "contributes to society" because of their beliefs - not because they're deadbeats or cowards by nature. Again, he was joking, but he was joking about something he actually has emotions about. These are serious topics and were going to lead to a serious thread no matter how it started out, and I think my points are relevant food for thought to anyone embittered by the route America has taken.

Anyways, I didn't notice Ali got a 7-day ban before I addressed him either. If there's going to be a "call Ali out on his BS" party during his suspension, I didn't and don't intend to be a part of it. Just to be clear.

I stay out of those conversations as much as possible and would just pm Ali if he was doing something so annoying I couldn't ignore it (I think the forum also has a "hide his posts" feature).

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #104

22 Veterans a day commit suicide. Man, that's insane and a shame (on pace for 8,000 this year).
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/...ble-wound/

Throw in the fact that Ali is now designated as a potential domestic terrorist and I'm about ready to send him a care package of sauerkraut, kimchee, ACV, and coconut oil to him... and some nilla wafers.

Post: #105

(03-29-2014 02:09 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  22 Veterans a day commit suicide. Man, that's insane and a shame (on pace for 8,000 this year).

Fuck. That's unspeakable.

How does this compare to the rates in other countries, I wonder? Anyone know?

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #106

(03-29-2014 02:29 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 02:09 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  22 Veterans a day commit suicide. Man, that's insane and a shame (on pace for 8,000 this year).

Fuck. That's unspeakable.

How does this compare to the rates in other countries, I wonder? Anyone know?

I did a brief google search for military suicides in countries like china and russia, but not much turned up. There was a Russian article from 2004 but the numbers were below 100 for the year, which doesn't come close to the US.

I think it is interesting to look at why this wasn't as big of a problem after past wars. This article says that this, "self-esteem" generation is part of the problem.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/...icide?lite

Post: #107

I like how the NBC article came with a different approach by looking at lifestyle difference, but it's over the top with far reach for generation-y disdain and shortsighted, at least how I took it.

They blame suicide on our generational upbringing. The conclusion process could have used more weight if they looked into demographics for who committed suicide. All the ones I know of personally were 30 through 45 years of age. Most veterans committing suicide today are multiple rotation veterans.

All in all, it's an opinion piece more than ever being scientific.

Things like that are harmful for real problems in the veteran community, I'd go as far as calling it disparaging.

Post: #108

What does "mosh kosh" mean?

Post: #109

Quote: Most veterans committing suicide today are multiple rotation veterans.

I think that must be an important factor- because of our dependence on a smaller professional army, we are sending them out on multiple tours over many years.

Also, without the draft fewer Americans have served than in the past, so fewer can relate. This must increase the sense of isolation.

Post: #110

(03-29-2014 03:33 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  What does "mosh kosh" mean?

Slang for ASAP.

Post: #111

(03-29-2014 05:09 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote: Most veterans committing suicide today are multiple rotation veterans.

I think that must be an important factor- because of our dependence on a smaller professional army, we are sending them out on multiple tours over many years.

Also, without the draft fewer Americans have served than in the past, so fewer can relate. This must increase the sense of isolation.

Indeed. With fewer relation and less national rigor over a war, a decadent society treats the military with misunderstanding disdain. It mocks it when in style to do so and typically doesn't bother with understanding its fighting force more than sporadic periodical reads.

The average American hasn't participated in something testing and committed as to involve seeing human life lost violently/crime proliferation and the desolation of mass poverty/lack of central civilized structure.

Post: #112

(03-27-2014 08:17 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  And your bullshit passive aggressive post could be the poster child of why not not ever to move to California.

You guys have become females for the most part and Ali has his moments but..Will return to fight another day.. It's obvious that you waited for his temp ban to comment and you are ex military? Taking female style shaming on your own?? Mike???

There's nothing passive aggressive about me brother.

I've said it to Ali before his temp ban. Read the Krauser thread.

I'd say it to his face, too.

Post: #113

(03-28-2014 03:27 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Soup this is not the time for you to concern troll and air your grievances with Ali.

I think if MikeCF really wanted to help Ali he would just send a pm instead.

I think you're correct though, he posted that because he wants the other guys on the board to learn from this.

So mechanico actually does have a point.

Ali wants to make his business public, hence the public meltdown.

When guys post things in public and then get upset that people comment about them, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Ali could keep this shit to himself. He wants to remain public.

Other guys can learn from his example.

Ali has been a negative fuck over the past 8 weeks or longer.

Now guys know why.

Yes, I "called him out" about this long before his temp ban when he unfairly trolled Krauser. (It's in the Daygame Mastery thread.)

Post: #114

See here:

/thread-33175-...#pid656840

/thread-33175-...#pid657336

/thread-33175-...#pid656852

Quote:You've been a hateful little guy lately.

Has your life gone south?

Krauser is as legit as they come. He was posting "proof of lay" videos years ago before the creeps and stalkers and white knights made that impossible to do.

You're out of your element here.

Plenty more posts in that thread.

/thread-33175-page-2.html

I am many things. Passive aggressive is not one of them.

In fact, I was right in that thread.

Ali has been hateful and now we know why.

So I was right then and I'm right now.

Post: #115

And here's proof that el mech is trolling (shocking, right?) and being dramatic by suggesting that I waited for Ali to get temp banned before saying anything:

/thread-33175-...#pid657348

So there you go. El Mech is trolling. Ali is publicly melting down and throwing a fit and being negative.

It's almost as if wherever those guys show up, threads become looking like something you'd find on a teenage girl's site.

Post: #116

All forum dramas aside, I sincerely hope things do work out for Ali and that he gets the benefits.

I want the best for everyone here!

Post: #117

As for the broader point Ali made, yep, the military will play you or you will play the military.

I played the military. Got college paid for, GI Bill, and never faced any peril. I can get a VA approved home loan. I played the game and came out ahead. That's red pill thinking.

Others get played by the military. They believed the hype about patriotism and what not. That's blue pill thinking.

If you join the military for public service, you are sorely mistaken. It's a JOB like anything else.

The goal is to exploit your employer rather than the other way around.

The "red pill" has a lot more to do with life than meeting women.

Sucks that so many men had to learn that the hard way.

Post: #118

(03-29-2014 10:33 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 02:29 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 02:09 AM)Big Nilla Wrote:  22 Veterans a day commit suicide. Man, that's insane and a shame (on pace for 8,000 this year).

Fuck. That's unspeakable.

How does this compare to the rates in other countries, I wonder? Anyone know?

I did a brief google search for military suicides in countries like china and russia, but not much turned up. There was a Russian article from 2004 but the numbers were below 100 for the year, which doesn't come close to the US.

I think it is interesting to look at why this wasn't as big of a problem after past wars. This article says that this, "self-esteem" generation is part of the problem.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/...icide?lite

1. Other countries suicide rates can not be compared to US military suicide rates unless you correct for participation is said war. US has by far more troops involved in every single operation of the Iraqi/Afghan war. Go look up the number of troops in country and adjust for that.

2. The self-esteem generation are a bunch of pussies. I have no doubt the amount of babying recieved as they were growing up leaves them unprepared to deal with real life problems. They don't know how to handle them, and they kill themselves. Its tragic.

I've seen guys who havent seen shit for combat yet suffer from severe PTSD. How the fuck does that happen? I don't know, its not my area of expertise. Its a catch-22, you either get pampered too much or you get ignored and left to waste.

3. War is hell. If you haven't been, and I mean actually been involved in front line combat, you really have no basis to comment on it. Thats not an attack on your reply, just a general observation. I agree with your reply.

Post: #119

(03-29-2014 08:34 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  As for the broader point Ali made, yep, the military will play you or you will play the military.

I played the military. Got college paid for, GI Bill, and never faced any peril. I can get a VA approved home loan. I played the game and came out ahead. That's red pill thinking.

Others get played by the military. They believed the hype about patriotism and what not. That's blue pill thinking.

If you join the military for public service, you are sorely mistaken. It's a JOB like anything else.

The goal is to exploit your employer rather than the other way around.

The "red pill" has a lot more to do with life than meeting women.

Sucks that so many men had to learn that the hard way.

As Mike put, the military is a job and it needs to be looked at that way. The guys that see it as a complete lifestyle choice are known as the "kool-aid drinkers." They drink the kool-aid the military gave them. They do very well in the military until the military turns upon them. They see it something along the lines of a lifetime mate cheating on them. They can't handle it, they know nothing else, and they can't imagine life without the military.

Those guys are the dangerous ones.

Post: #120

Let's be real here. I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years. First of all, thank you for your service but if you really joined the military for the benefits and if you feel entitled, you don't deserve them unless you lost a limb in combat. There are real seriously injured veterans that need it the most. I've worked some of the finest and the worst people in the military. Over the last decade, the military admitted way too many unqualified individuals due to the number needed to fight 2 ongoing wars, many are ignorant and uneducated,, some are former convicts, in fact many of them have nothing productive to contribute in our society and service to our country was the last thing in their mind. Many sat around behind the wire in the war zone and they come home and brag about how dangerous it was and claim 50% on VA disability for sleep apnea just because they snore in sleep. I would say less than 10% of all military personnel have actually fought in real combat. Honestly, it's sad for me to see many of these Marines and soldiers become cynical and brainwashed by the FOX news in the dining hall and complain about what is wrong with our society. Just do your time honorably and get out, don't be cynical, our country owes you nothing.

(03-29-2014 09:47 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 08:34 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  As for the broader point Ali made, yep, the military will play you or you will play the military.

I played the military. Got college paid for, GI Bill, and never faced any peril. I can get a VA approved home loan. I played the game and came out ahead. That's red pill thinking.

Others get played by the military. They believed the hype about patriotism and what not. That's blue pill thinking.

If you join the military for public service, you are sorely mistaken. It's a JOB like anything else.

The goal is to exploit your employer rather than the other way around.

The "red pill" has a lot more to do with life than meeting women.

Sucks that so many men had to learn that the hard way.

As Mike put, the military is a job and it needs to be looked at that way. The guys that see it as a complete lifestyle choice are known as the "kool-aid drinkers." They drink the kool-aid the military gave them. They do very well in the military until the military turns upon them. They see it something along the lines of a lifetime mate cheating on them. They can't handle it, they know nothing else, and they can't imagine life without the military.

Those guys are the dangerous ones.

Post: #121

I think we need to chillax

Post: #122

(03-29-2014 10:05 PM)bluejun Wrote:  Let's be real here. I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years. First of all, thank you for your service but if you really joined the military for the benefits and if you feel entitled, you don't deserve them unless you lost a limb in combat. There are real seriously injured veterans that need it the most. I've worked some of the finest and the worst people in the military. Over the last decade, the military admitted way too many unqualified individuals due to the number needed to fight 2 ongoing wars, many are ignorant and uneducated,, some are former convicts, in fact many of them have nothing productive to contribute in our society and service to our country was the last thing in their mind. Many sat around behind the wire in the war zone and they come home and brag about how dangerous it was and claim 50% on VA disability for sleep apnea just because they snore in sleep. I would say less than 10% of all military personnel have actually fought in real combat. Honestly, it's sad for me to see many of these Marines and soldiers become cynical and brainwashed by the FOX news in the dining hall and complain about what is wrong with our society. Just do your time honorably and get out, don't be cynical, our country owes you nothing.

What you just wrote sounds like my dad talking about Vietnam, minus the part about 2 ongoing wars. I've met Vietnam vets that wear it like a badge, in some cases literally like Veterans of Vietnam motorcycle club, talking about fallen brothers and all that shit. And then I find out later they were swift boat maintenance crew.

Just saying, history repeats itself. The patriotism that was bred in the aftermath of WWII was very unique and I'd say the exception rather than the rule. The propaganda machine was alive and well and genuinely united this country against the threat of evil.

That same propaganda machine led to initial public support in Vietnam. Once again the world was under threat, not from the nazis, but communists, and the showdown was in Vietnam. But things obviously didn't pan out the way our political and military leaders had anticipated. The propaganda machine was outdated, and it was in Vietnam that you had combat photographers and press fighting their orders to bring home imagery of young 19 year old men, completely maimed, disfigured, fucked up, a life wasted for no reason at all. It took years, but the propaganda wore off and instead of rising up against communism, the ugly truth reared its head, and the general sentiment arose: "Why are we here?"

In our generation we had 9/11. The story has been told thousands of times; young men watched those planes fly into the towers, and the collective blood of the country boiled yet again. We needed a new enemy. Without a second thought, men everywhere enlisted to grind "those fucking towelheads" into dust. Those men went into battle sought redemption, while the rest of us sat on the sidelines thinking, "If the terrorists that pulled this off are Saudi nationals, why are we in Iraq?" The skeptics were called conspiracy theorists and unpatriotic. The conflict dragged on, the body count piled up, and once again we found ourselves in the same situation thinking, "What are we doing over there?"

This charade has been going on for some time. I've got nothing but admiration and respect for any serviceman that answers the call of duty, and that's precisely the problem. Our politicians take advantage of that fact and sends our boys in to make the ultimate sacrifice for completely illegitimate and unjustifiable purposes. The armed forces is like a job except one that may get you killed; for that, it demands a much deeper understanding of what's at stake. But that understanding is not there.

As such, it is the ultimate organization to get your ass played.

Post: #123

Iraq is in turmoil now. Last time I heard 50 or more civilians die daily due to sectarian violence. We left it in no position than it were with Saddam in control. We spent almost a billion to build that embassy in Baghdad and will be spending another hundreds of millions annually just to maintain it. Treating Iraq veterans will cost us another trillion dollars over the next decades. What a waste.... Sometimes, it infuriates me to know that Bush Administration got away with this mess.

Post: #124

Somewhere, someone is making a lot of money off of all this.

Post: #125

(03-29-2014 10:05 PM)bluejun Wrote:  Let's be real here. I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years. First of all, thank you for your service but if you really joined the military for the benefits and if you feel entitled, you don't deserve them unless you lost a limb in combat. There are real seriously injured veterans that need it the most. The military gave you free housing, job training, food, money and security clearance, what more do you really want?. I've worked some of the finest and the worst people in the military. Over the last decade, the military admitted way too many unqualified individuals due to the number needed to fight 2 ongoing wars, many are ignorant and uneducated,, some are former convicts, in fact many of them have nothing productive to contribute in our society and service to our country was the last thing in their mind. Many sat around behind the wire in the war zone and they come home and brag about how dangerous it was and claim 50% on VA disability for sleep apnea just because they snore in sleep. I would say less than 10% of all military personnel have actually fought in real combat. Honestly, it's sad for me to see many of these Marines and soldiers become cynical and brainwashed by the FOX news in the dining hall and complain about what is wrong with our society. Just do your time honorably and get out, don't be cynical, our country owes you nothing.

(03-29-2014 09:47 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

(03-29-2014 08:34 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  As for the broader point Ali made, yep, the military will play you or you will play the military.

I played the military. Got college paid for, GI Bill, and never faced any peril. I can get a VA approved home loan. I played the game and came out ahead. That's red pill thinking.

Others get played by the military. They believed the hype about patriotism and what not. That's blue pill thinking.

If you join the military for public service, you are sorely mistaken. It's a JOB like anything else.

The goal is to exploit your employer rather than the other way around.

The "red pill" has a lot more to do with life than meeting women.

Sucks that so many men had to learn that the hard way.

As Mike put, the military is a job and it needs to be looked at that way. The guys that see it as a complete lifestyle choice are known as the "kool-aid drinkers." They drink the kool-aid the military gave them. They do very well in the military until the military turns upon them. They see it something along the lines of a lifetime mate cheating on them. They can't handle it, they know nothing else, and they can't imagine life without the military.

Those guys are the dangerous ones.