Post: #276

(03-10-2017 04:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 07:15 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

Your "muh vaccines" should be "muh maternal age" .

As Phoenix said, feminism is most likely is the cause of autism as feminism encourages a later maternal age.

Yes the mother’s age plays a role in the rates. But tell me how come autism went from 1 in 5000 in the eighties to 1 in 40 today and don’t give me this bullshit that were diagnosing it better. I’ve talked to doctors who worked in psychology in the seventies and eighties the never saw autism as rampant as it is today. There have been many studies that link vaccines to autism you just never hear about them because big Pharma doesn’t want you to as they stand to lose trillions if this gets out. Vox day has written many articles on this I suggest anyone interested on the topic should look them up. I tend to believe him and trump over some bought and paid for white coat.

Post: #277

No, there haven't been "many" studies that link autism to vaccines, there was only one by that fucktard pushing his own agenda to make money. Then everyone else got high off his jizz.

Post: #278

I would like to see a study into marijuana use before pregnancy, from either the father or mother. There hasn't been much study since the feds made it illegal to study . Other than the known effects of marijuana on sperm I don't have any reason to think it causes autism.

I buy into the diagnoses changes as a partial explanation, based on my personal experiences. I didn't start talking until I was five, my dad was similar. Both my sons had speech delays, one has autism the other was diagnosed as something more generic that I can't recall (developmentally delayed perhaps). As a kid I was in gifted classes before those were as common as they are today, and let me tell you many of my classmates were the stereotype Asperger types but none of them had a diagnoses. We all just called them freeks, geeks, spazzes, or whatnot. I don't think I was as weird as my classmates, I'd usually be called a space-case or accused of not having common sense. Geek, nerd, etc. wasn't worn with pride by any means in the 80s

My dad on the other hand grew up poor out in the country. Grandma used to put him on a chain in the front yard (no joke) and just let him play in the dirt because he was wild as F as a kid. He was a runner.

Post: #279

(03-10-2017 01:38 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 04:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 07:15 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

Your "muh vaccines" should be "muh maternal age" .

As Phoenix said, feminism is most likely is the cause of autism as feminism encourages a later maternal age.

Yes the mother’s age plays a role in the rates. But tell me how come autism went from 1 in 5000 in the eighties to 1 in 40 today and don’t give me this bullshit that were diagnosing it better. I’ve talked to doctors who worked in psychology in the seventies and eighties the never saw autism as rampant as it is today. There have been many studies that link vaccines to autism you just never hear about them because big Pharma doesn’t want you to as they stand to lose trillions if this gets out. Vox day has written many articles on this I suggest anyone interested on the topic should look them up. I tend to believe him and trump over some bought and paid for white coat.

Is your reading comprehension lacking?

The spike in autism is directly correlated to maternal age and NOT vaccines. That's why autism rates in the 80s were so low. People were still marrying young and having kids at a reasonable age.

Maternal age and to a lesser extent paternal age are what contribute to autism.

Cite your sources, otherwise I call BS.

Post: #280

(03-10-2017 06:26 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 01:38 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-10-2017 04:04 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 07:15 AM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  

(03-09-2017 05:45 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I'll take my chances with vaccines for my children and myself. Fully inoculated and up to date on all of my shots.

Vaccines are the gift of modern medical science and to think otherwise is foolish.

This is what whooping cough sounds like:

Pertusis is entirely preventable and yet we have people who think otherwise and then fail to understand how herd immunity works.

Antivacers should be quarantined from modern society in a special place until such day that they decide to vaccinate themselves.

This is another mark of societal decline.

Then I'd like to hear your explanation why autism is so prevalent nowadays when it wasn't in the past

Your "muh vaccines" should be "muh maternal age" .

As Phoenix said, feminism is most likely is the cause of autism as feminism encourages a later maternal age.

Yes the mother’s age plays a role in the rates. But tell me how come autism went from 1 in 5000 in the eighties to 1 in 40 today and don’t give me this bullshit that were diagnosing it better. I’ve talked to doctors who worked in psychology in the seventies and eighties the never saw autism as rampant as it is today. There have been many studies that link vaccines to autism you just never hear about them because big Pharma doesn’t want you to as they stand to lose trillions if this gets out. Vox day has written many articles on this I suggest anyone interested on the topic should look them up. I tend to believe him and trump over some bought and paid for white coat.

Is your reading comprehension lacking?

The spike in autism is directly correlated to maternal age and NOT vaccines. That's why autism rates in the 80s were so low. People were still marrying young and having kids at a reasonable age.

Maternal age and to a lesser extent paternal age are what contribute to autism.

Cite your sources, otherwise I call BS.

What caused my autism then my mother was 32 when she had me that's not old autism rates only increase when the mother is over 35

Post: #281

In short, yes. Look at the chart I posted. You were one of the unlucky 31 kids out of 10,000 that got dinged since your mom was 32 when you were born.

Post: #282

I think most of the anti-vax stuff is overly paranoid and in the "tin foil hat category"; i'd be much more worried about the negative health effects of fast food, air pollution, sedentary lifestyles, and things that affect people in daily life than a vaccine that people only get once every few years. The same with the anti-psychiatric drugs movements; since they blindly condemn anything which is considered a "prescription medication", but ignore the amount of unnatural chemicals people consume daily in their diets, as well as the multitude of "non-prescription" drugs with possible health risks.

That and people aren't made of glass; they're biologically hardwired to adapt and evolve in changing environments, rather than live in paranoia over everything which is "unnatural".

I've noticed however that militant "pro-vaccine" activists seem to be motivated by something of a statist agenda however; the trend in general today seems to be condemning anything that encourages less dependence on government or corporate technologies.

Post: #283

If your logic about autism being solely related to the mother’s age wouldn’t you think places like Utah would have one of the lowest rates of autism given that Mormon women tend to get married and have kids at a significant younger age than the general population. And yet if we look at the data Utah has one of the highest rates of autism in the US. I'd also like to point out that there are a very little reported autism among the on Amish who don't get vaccinated and they seem to live healthy lives. Most of these diseases have gone away because living standards have increased inventions like the indoor toilet and the fact that most of us don't sleep on flea infested beds. You have to look at it from the globalist stand point they want to decrease the human population so what better way to do it than by eliminating a large proportion of the men. By infecting them with diseases so they don't reproduce they can secretly practiced their eugenics without openly killing people which would spark a backlash. They say autism tends to run in families that have significantly high IQ men maybe the vaccines are targeted a specific gene to eliminate potential high IQ men that would be threats to their power

Post: #284

^^ You got tan quit buying into bullshit.

I can't stand the "well the Amish don't have it" argument. Those people are weird as shit. Its not just vaccinations, the Amish don't have a whole lot of other stuff average people have. Maybe store-bought pants instead of home made ones cause Autism?

The only thing the Amish argument gives credence to regarding Autism is horse therapy. Horse therapy cures autism, and who rides more horses than Amish people?

Aloha!

Post: #285

I think he's right man. You're neurotic as all fuck obsessing about this. I'd say 50% of your suspected autism isn't autism it's just you obsessing about autism. Didn't Aurini say he's talked to you and he said you're not actually autistic? If says that then you're not autistic.

Get yourself on a horse, or a motorbike, or anything, think about other stuff and let it drop.

Post: #286

What's actually in the vaccines you may ask? A table from the CDC :

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo...able-2.pdf

Way too much formaldehyde for my liking.

Post: #287

Maybe funny beards cure autism?

The Amish don't get vaccinated because they don't have doctors, not because they read Jenny McCarthys book. They got no testing for it.

I bet Amish get electrocuted a lot less than normal folks. This isn't because they are more careful around power lines, its because they got no electric.

Aloha!

Post: #288

(03-21-2017 10:06 PM)TheWhiteWolf Wrote:  They say autism tends to run in families that have significantly high IQ men...

I'm not one for debating this particular issue personally, but you just cut your Amish argument off at the knee.

Honestly - how deep do you think that gene pool runs? I grew up near a TON of Amish, and it wasn't exactly like they were courting girls from the local community.

Also, if there's any correlation on your IQ statement, you've again just explained lower occurrence in Amish communities. Which I can't even begin to imagine is well studied in the first place...

I hate argument from fallacy personally but man oh man, you sure had to overlook a lot to arrive where you did.

Post: #289

Post: #290

Looks like the pseudoscience chickens have come home to roost.

Quote:Anti-vaccine activists just sparked a U.S. state’s worst measles outbreak in decades

After repeated visits from discredited activists, vaccination rates among Minnesota’s Somali-American community plummeted to just 42 per cent in 2014 — far below the threshold to prevent an outbreak.

MINNEAPOLIS—The young mother started getting advice early on from friends in the close-knit Somali immigrant community here. Don’t let your children get the vaccine for measles, mumps and rubella — it causes autism, they said.

Suaado Salah listened. And this spring, her 3-year-old boy and 18-month-old girl contracted measles in Minnesota’s largest outbreak of the highly infectious and potentially deadly disease in nearly three decades. Her daughter, who had a rash, high fever and a cough, was hospitalized for four nights and needed intravenous fluids and oxygen.

“I thought: ‘I’m in America. I thought I’m in a safe place and my kids will never get sick in that disease,’ ” said Salah, 26, who has lived in Minnesota for more than a decade. Growing up in Somalia, she’d had measles as a child. A sister died of the disease at age 3.

Salah no longer believes that the MMR vaccine triggers autism, a discredited theory that spread rapidly through the local Somali community, fanned by meetings organized by anti-vaccine groups. The advocates repeatedly invited Andrew Wakefield, the founder of the modern anti-vaccine movement, to talk to worried parents.

Immunization rates plummeted and, last month, the first cases of measles appeared. Soon, there was a full-blown outbreak, one of the starkest consequences of an intensifying anti-vaccine movement in the United States and around the world that has gained traction in part by targeting specific communities.

“It’s remarkable to come in and talk to a population that’s vulnerable and marginalized and who doesn’t necessarily have the capacity for advocacy for themselves, and to take advantage of that,” said Siman Nuurali, a Somali-American clinician who co-ordinates the care of medically complex patients at Children’s Hospitals and Clinics of Minnesota. “It’s abhorrent.”

Although extensive research has disproved any relationship between vaccines and autism, the fear has become entrenched in the community. “I don’t know if we will be able to dig out on our own,” Nuurali said.

Anti-vaccine advocates defend their position and their role, saying they merely provided information to parents.

“The Somalis had decided themselves that they were particularly concerned,” Wakefield said last week. “I was responding to that.”

He maintained that he bears no fault for what is now happening within the community: “I don’t feel responsible at all.”

MMR vaccination rates among U.S.-born children of Somali descent used to be higher than among other children in Minnesota. But the rates plummeted from 92 per cent in 2004 to 42 per cent in 2014, state health department data shows, well below the 92-94 per cent threshold needed to protect a community against measles.

Wakefield, a British activist who now lives in Texas, visited Minneapolis at least three times, in 2010 and 2011, to meet privately with Somali parents of autistic children, according to local anti-vaccine advocates. Wakefield’s prominence stems from a 1998 study he authored, which claimed to show a link between the vaccine and autism. The study was later identified as fraudulent and was retracted by the medical journal that published it, and his medical license was revoked.

The current outbreak was identified in early April. As of Thursday, there were 41 cases, all but two occurring in people who were not vaccinated, and all but one in children 10 and younger. Nearly all have been from the Somali-American community in Hennepin County. A fourth of the patients have been hospitalized. Because of the dangerously low vaccination rates and the disease’s extreme infectiousness, more cases are expected in the weeks ahead.

Measles, which remains endemic in many parts of the world, was eliminated in the United States at the start of this century. It reappeared several years ago as more people — many wealthier, more educated and white — began refusing to vaccinate their children or delaying those shots.

The ramifications already have been significant. A 2014-2015 measles outbreak infected 147 people in seven states and spread to Mexico and Canada. In California, high school students were sent home because of infected classmates. One patient, who was unknowingly infectious, visited a hospital and exposed dozens of pregnant women and babies, including those in the neonatal intensive care unit. Another adult patient was hospitalized and on a breathing machine for three weeks.

Federal guidelines typically recommend that children get the first vaccine dose at 12 to 15 months of age and the second when they are 4 to 6 years old. The combination is 97 per cent effective in preventing the viral disease, which can cause pneumonia, brain swelling, deafness and, in rare instances, death.

Minnesota’s Somali community is the largest in the country. The roots of the outbreak there date to 2008, when parents raised concerns that their children were disproportionately affected by autism spectrum disorder. A limited survey by the state health department the following year found an unexpectedly high number of Somali children in a preschool autism program. But a University of Minnesota study found that Somali children were about as likely as white children to be identified with autism, although they were more likely to have intellectual disabilities.

Around that time, health-care providers began receiving reports of parents refusing the MMR vaccine.

As parents sought to learn more about the disorder, they came across websites of anti-vaccine groups. And activists from those groups started showing up at community health meetings and distributing pamphlets, recalled Lynn Bahta, a longtime state health department nurse who has worked with Somali nurses to counter MMR vaccine resistance within the community.

At one 2011 gathering featuring Wakefield, Bahta recalled, an armed guard barred her, other public health officials and reporters from attending.

Fear of autism runs so deep in the Somali community that parents whose children have recently come down with measles insist that measles is preferable to risking autism. One father, who did not want his family identified to protect their privacy, sat helplessly by his daughter’s bed at Children’s Minnesota hospital last week as she struggled to breathe during coughing fits.

The 23-month-old was on an IV for fluids and had repeatedly pulled out the oxygen tube in her nose. Her older brother, almost 4, endured a milder bout. Neither had received the MMR vaccine.

The children now have antibodies to protect against measles, but they still need the vaccine to prevent mumps and rubella. Their father, who is 33 and studying mechanical engineering while working as a mechanic, wants to wait. His worry: autism. A colleague has a son “who is mute.”

“I would hold off until she’s 3 . . . or until she fluently starts talking,” he explained.

His wife no longer harbours doubts, however. As soon as both children are well, she said, “they are going to get the shot.”

The pervasive mistrust was evident Sunday night during a meeting, sponsored by several anti-vaccine groups, that drew a mostly Somali crowd of 90 to a Somali-owned restaurant here. Patti Carroll, a board member of the Vaccine Safety Council of Minnesota, described its goal as giving parents more information, including their right to refuse to vaccinate. People have been “bullied big time” by doctors and public health officials, she said.

The presentation by anti-vaccine activist Mark Blaxill drew cheers and applause. Blaxill, a Boston businessman whose adult daughter has autism, played down the threat of measles and played up local autism rates.

“When you hear people from the state public health department saying there is no risk, that (vaccines) are safe, this is the sort of thing that should cause you to be skeptical,” Blaxill said.

Two pediatricians in the audience stepped up to a microphone to denounce the claims.

“I am very concerned, especially in the midst of a measles outbreak, to have folks come into a community impacted by this disease and start talking about links between MMR and autism,” said Andrew Kiragu, interim chief of pediatrics at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minneapolis. “This is a travesty.”

He and the other doctors were interrupted by boos and yelling.

“For God’s sake, I want to know if vaccines are safe,” Sahra Osman shouted. She has a nearly adult son who received an autism diagnosis when he was 3. “My people are suffering! We’re not ignorant. I read a lot. I know a lot. I educate myself . . . You don’t know what you are talking about.”

While scores of studies from around the world have shown conclusively that vaccines do not cause autism, that is often not a satisfactory answer for Somali-American parents. They say that if science can explain that vaccines don’t cause autism, science should be able to say what does.

But researchers don’t really know. A growing body of evidence suggests that brain differences associated with autism may be found early in infancy — well before children receive most vaccines. Other studies have found that alterations in brain-cell development related to autism may occur before birth. There are some genetic risk factors for autism, and advanced parental age has been associated with the condition.

Meanwhile, the ongoing spread of the anti-vaccine message is making it harder to control the burgeoning number of measles cases.

The groups continue advising parents, “in the middle of their crisis,” on how to opt out of vaccines, said pediatric nurse practitioner Patsy Stinchfield, an infection-control expert leading the outbreak response at Children’s Minnesota. That message is “exactly the opposite of what clinicians and public health officials are urging, which is to get vaccinated as soon as possible.”

Staffers at her hospital have been working around the clock to vaccinate hundreds of people who may have been exposed; an MMR dose given within 72 hours of exposure can prevent measles.

When their two sick children are well, Suaado Salah and her husband, Tahlil Wehlie, plan to talk to friends and acquaintances to spread the word that the anti-vaccine groups are wrong and that all youngsters should get immunized.

“Because when the kids get sick, it’s going to affect everybody. It’s not going to affect only the family who have the sick kid,” she said. “They make sick for everybody. That’s when you wake up and say, ‘OK, what happened?’ ”

But she understands the apprehension that fed the outbreak. With a parent whose child has autism, she said, “It’s something that you’re looking for an answer for how it happened and what happened to your kid.”

Post: #291

^^^

As predictable as a woman's vagina juicing up on the revelation that the man she is talking to owns a Lamborghini. This shit happens again and again across the world. Japan, Australia, Denmark, England: when a bunch of two-digit-IQ morons start convincing each other that vaccines are the Devil's work, up come the very diseases whose vaccinations they declined.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #292

For a bunch of people who have witnessed just how much of what we are fed are lies, there sure is a lot of blind, unwavering support for the vaccine arm of big pharma. The vitriol directed towards anyone questioning them at all, makes the treatment Trump received look like high praise.

The harder an issue is pushed, and the more harshly dissent is dealt with, the stronger the smell of bullshit becomes. It might be time to focus that critical lens in the direction of vaccines.

Post: #293

(05-11-2017 12:39 AM)king bast Wrote:  For a bunch of people who have witnessed just how much of what we are fed are lies, there sure is a lot of blind, unwavering support for the vaccine arm of big pharma. The vitriol directed towards anyone questioning them at all, makes the treatment Trump received look like high praise.

The harder an issue is pushed, and the more harshly dissent is dealt with, the stronger the smell of bullshit becomes. It might be time to focus that critical lens in the direction of vaccines.

Yes, the same brilliant critical thinkers who support big pharma are the the same ones who support big government, with similar disastrous outcomes. Always follow the money. Big Pharma could save more children by simply not jacking up the price of EpiPens by nearly 1,200%.

"EpiPens, which cost Mylan around $30 to produce, go for over $600 before coupons or rebates." "From 2007 to 2014, government spending on the medication rose 1,151% during a period when the number of EpiPen users increase only 164%, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation report."

http://time.com/money/4502891/epipen-pri...-politics/

Post: #294

(05-11-2017 01:09 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 12:39 AM)king bast Wrote:  For a bunch of people who have witnessed just how much of what we are fed are lies, there sure is a lot of blind, unwavering support for the vaccine arm of big pharma. The vitriol directed towards anyone questioning them at all, makes the treatment Trump received look like high praise.

The harder an issue is pushed, and the more harshly dissent is dealt with, the stronger the smell of bullshit becomes. It might be time to focus that critical lens in the direction of vaccines.

Yes, the same brilliant critical thinkers who support big pharma are the the same ones who support big government, with similar disastrous outcomes. Always follow the money. Big Pharma could save more children by simply not jacking up the price of EpiPens by nearly 1,200%.

"EpiPens, which cost Mylan around $30 to produce, go for over $600 before coupons or rebates." "From 2007 to 2014, government spending on the medication rose 1,151% during a period when the number of EpiPen users increase only 164%, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation report."

http://time.com/money/4502891/epipen-pri...-politics/

By that logic Big Pharma would rationally prefer there was no such thing as a vaccine. They'd make much more money that way.

Let's assume for just a moment that the MMR vaccine does, in fact, cause autism. There's not one experiment, among the hundreds of attempts made to even find a link let alone a cause between them, but let's take that assumption for just a moment.

We know that not everyone who gets the MMR vaccine gets autism. Autism's treatment is usually a cocktail of behavioural therapies or alternatively a bit of Ritalin if the doctor is dumb. Either way, let's also assume that Big Pharma doesn't want the link to get round because they're happy to treat autism with drugs as it gets identified and they like to be able to continue charging the government for vaccines.

Per this page ...

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

... the CDC estimates the autism rate as roughly 1 in 68 kids (1 in 42 boys, 1 in 189 girls).

Prior to the measles vaccine, it is estimated that nearly every child got measles before the age of 15. Similarly, per this CDC page: https://www.cdc.gov/mumps/outbreaks.html -- before the MMR vaccine there were roughly 186,000 cases of mumps per year before the vaccine was created. In Rubella's case, 57,000 cases per year prior to the vaccine (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo...lla.html).

The MMR vaccine costs, for its full course, about $250.00 per person, per the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf...rice-list/

The cost of a single case of measles? Per this article:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/02/08...More-10000

Quote:The public sector costs of treating each case each was $10,376, including the 1,745 person hours spent on “investigation and containment efforts,” according to the study. Direct medical costs totaled $1,347 and expenses related to quarantining 48 children who were too young to be vaccinated equaled $775 per patient.

A CDC study published in the journal Vaccine noted that there were 16 measles outbreaks in 2011 that resulted in 107 cases and cost public health departments between $2.7 million and $5.3 million to combat. "Beyond the impact on local and state public health departments, responses to measles outbreaks also affect hospitals, clinics, as well as non-health public departments such as schools, universities and occasionally local police departments enforcing quarantines," authors of the CDC study note.

Those figures don’t include costs incurred by the patients, which are considerable as well. Measles sufferers often require hospitalization. They can get complications like pneumonia and encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can be deadly.

A Los Angeles hospital charged around $9,264 per patient during a resurgence of the infection in the 1990s, according to a 2004 report in the Journal of Infectious Diseases. That figure has no doubt risen in the intervening years.

Mumps: per CDC again: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf...ds/#table2

... it's about $11,000-$14,000 per hospitalisation. (Which, prior to vaccines, was about 55.8 per 1,000 cases.) For rubella, it's as wide as $4,000 to $48,000 per hospitalisation. (Of which, during the last epidemic in 1963, there were a good 32,000 ... those being the cases where women spontaneously aborted, the child was stillborn, or the child was born deformed).

On these, Big Pharma gets a double or triple whammy: it not only provides medicine to fight the disease, it also provides the associated medications such as analgesics, anaesthetics, etc, etc.

And that's also before you get to the cost of the complications that accompany these conditions, e.g. encephalitis in some cases of mumps, which raise the medical costs and therefore Big Pharma's take.

Dealing only with measles, let's assume they only spend about $40 all up for ibuprofen or aspirin or other medicines while sick, and that's the limit of Big Pharma's profit on the illness.

73 million kids aged 0-15 in the US (per this site https://www.childstats.gov/americaschild...s/pop1.asp) @ $40 per aspirin or other pain relief treatment taken = $2.92 billion per year.

vs.

the 10 million doses of MMR vaccine administered per year @ $250 each = $2.5 billion per year.

Bear in mind that comparison:
(a) is only comparing measles, not touching mumps or rubella's rates -- tens of thousands per year, and a lot more serious with higher hospitalisation rates than mumps or rubella; and
(b) does not include any costs where a person is hospitalised. For measles alone, before vaccines, roughly 48,000 people were hospitalised for measles per year, at a cost of $1,347 direct medical costs each.

Get the point? If we're going to "follow the money", it makes a shitload more financial sense for Big Pharma to suppress vaccinations than administer them, because they make more money from a hospitalisation or treatment of a disease than they do on preventing it happening. This is particularly so for measles, where literally every kid was contracting it or gets it at some point between the ages of 1 and 15.

God save us from people who mean well. -storm

Post: #295

(05-12-2017 12:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  73 million kids aged 0-15 in the US (per this site https://www.childstats.gov/americaschild...s/pop1.asp) @ $40 per aspirin or other pain relief treatment taken = $2.92 billion per year.

vs.

the 10 million doses of MMR vaccine administered per year @ $250 each = $2.5 billion per year.

Again, a lack of critical thinking. The actual reality is the billions of dollars of money made today by forcing all children to get vaccines versus the small amount of money made by Big Pharma from controlling a handful of yearly outbreaks. We could get into an entirely different discussion about the notoriously short-term profit goals of American corporations (versus the long-term planning horizons of companies in other countries, e.g., China and Japan).

BTW: I am not necessarily opposed to vaccines if they are proven both safe and effective, so that the benefit outweighs the risk. For example, why is mercury still placed in vaccines? After over 100 years of pain and suffering, dentists have begun removing mercury (one of the world's most toxic naturally occurring elements) from dental fillings. Why did it take so long? Ignorance, indifference, convenience, and greed. Why is fluoride still placed in our drinking water, when 95% of European countries have abandoned it as detrimental to health? I could easily list a dozen of other examples. It is because our society is run mostly by sociopaths, the ignorant, and those who love to exert their mistaken views on others either for money or power.

The overarching theme here is personal sovereignty versus the State. If you want to drink fluoridated water, put mercury in your mouth, drink dead boiled milk, and roll the dice by giving your children vaccines -- be my guest. Just do not force everyone else (self-enlightened people) to do it.

Your motto applies well here: "God save us from people who mean well." They will kill you every time.

Post: #296

(03-11-2017 12:28 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  In short, yes. Look at the chart I posted. You were one of the unlucky 31 kids out of 10,000 that got dinged since your mom was 32 when you were born.

Beast, the current rate is one in 40. This is equivalent to 250 out of every 10,000.

Old mother's age explains the increase from 14 out of 10,000 to 31 out of 10,000. It does not explain the far more massive increase from 31 to 250 out of every 10,000, not even close.

Post: #297

(03-21-2017 10:36 PM)Kona Wrote:  Maybe funny beards cure autism?

The Amish don't get vaccinated because they don't have doctors, not because they read Jenny McCarthys book. They got no testing for it.

I bet Amish get electrocuted a lot less than normal folks. This isn't because they are more careful around power lines, its because they got no electric.

Aloha!

From what I recall, autism rates have decreased in countries that have simply altered the timing of MMR vaccinations, which indicates that the damage was reduced by simply delaying/staggering the vaccine schedules, and that of course that there is some correlation between autism and vaccines.

The problem here is that it's hard for the truth to get through when the medical/pharma/media/academia/research establishment has been fully mobilized against it.

It's good to keep an open mind and stay skeptical while still being based and scientifically grounded. That's the only way to get to the bottom of things, really.

I haven't researched this subject in as much depth as others, but I found out that on similar subjects like water fluoridation, it is quite clear that fluoridation is very detrimental to the public's health, despite all the official reassurances. I would guess that most people who believe that vaccines are very safe also believe that water fluoridation is a good thing, because they are subject to the same cognitive process.

Post: #298

(05-12-2017 11:48 AM)911 Wrote:  It's good to keep an open mind and stay skeptical while still being based and scientifically grounded. That's the only way to get to the bottom of things, really.

That is the key point to this entire thread. Stay skeptical, think for yourself, follow the money, and always perform a cost-benefit analysis.

The same concepts apply to cell phone use. I use my smart phone mostly for its data and non-phone-communication uses. I minimize phone-to-ear use -- and I use a tube-air connection for any extensive conversations.

Something like 90% of the research papers that claim that cell phones have no negative health consequences were funded by the cell phone manufacturers. I am not saying to throw away your cell phone. I am not even saying that there is definitely a health issue. Like anything else in life, stay skeptical, perform a cost-benefit analysis, and take simple precautions. What is the price of a new brain?

The compartmentalization that I see in this forum always amazes me. Most guys find this forum because they are rightly skeptical of the feminist pabulum that permeates our society. They swallow the red pill and then begin their journey towards critical thinking. But then they apply this critical thinking only to relationships -- rather than extending it into other spheres of life (politics, economics, health, etc.). It baffles me.

Post: #299

The phrase "the benefits outweigh the risks" comes up verbatim far, far too commonly for my liking. It reminds me of "electrolytes" from idocracy.





That is, its a conditioned phrase that everyone parrots, yet nobody understands.

Post: #300

(05-12-2017 12:26 AM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 01:09 AM)Tail Gunner Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 12:39 AM)king bast Wrote:  For a bunch of people who have witnessed just how much of what we are fed are lies, there sure is a lot of blind, unwavering support for the vaccine arm of big pharma. The vitriol directed towards anyone questioning them at all, makes the treatment Trump received look like high praise.

The harder an issue is pushed, and the more harshly dissent is dealt with, the stronger the smell of bullshit becomes. It might be time to focus that critical lens in the direction of vaccines.

Yes, the same brilliant critical thinkers who support big pharma are the the same ones who support big government, with similar disastrous outcomes. Always follow the money. Big Pharma could save more children by simply not jacking up the price of EpiPens by nearly 1,200%.

"EpiPens, which cost Mylan around $30 to produce, go for over $600 before coupons or rebates." "From 2007 to 2014, government spending on the medication rose 1,151% during a period when the number of EpiPen users increase only 164%, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation report."

http://time.com/money/4502891/epipen-pri...-politics/

By that logic Big Pharma would rationally prefer there was no such thing as a vaccine. They'd make much more money that way.

Let's assume for just a moment that the MMR vaccine does, in fact, cause autism. There's not one experiment, among the hundreds of attempts made to even find a link let alone a cause between them, but let's take that assumption for just a moment.

We know that not everyone who gets the MMR vaccine gets autism. Autism's treatment is usually a cocktail of behavioural therapies or alternatively a bit of Ritalin if the doctor is dumb. Either way, let's also assume that Big Pharma doesn't want the link to get round because they're happy to treat autism with drugs as it gets identified and they like to be able to continue charging the government for vaccines.

Per this page ...

https://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/history.html

... the CDC estimates the autism rate as roughly 1 in 68 kids (1 in 42 boys, 1 in 189 girls).

Prior to the measles vaccine, it is estimated that nearly every child got measles before the age of 15. Similarly, per this CDC page: https://www.cdc.gov/mumps/outbreaks.html -- before the MMR vaccine there were roughly 186,000 cases of mumps per year before the vaccine was created. In Rubella's case, 57,000 cases per year prior to the vaccine (https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbo...lla.html).

The MMR vaccine costs, for its full course, about $250.00 per person, per the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf...rice-list/

The cost of a single case of measles? Per this article:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/02/08...More-10000

Quote:The public sector costs of treating each case each was $10,376, including the 1,745 person hours spent on “investigation and containment efforts,” according to the study. Direct medical costs totaled $1,347 and expenses related to quarantining 48 children who were too young to be vaccinated equaled $775 per patient.

A CDC study published in the journal Vaccine noted that there were 16 measles outbreaks in 2011 that resulted in 107 cases and cost public health departments between $2.7 million and $5.3 million to combat. "Beyond the impact on local and state public health departments, responses to measles outbreaks also affect hospitals, clinics, as well as non-health public departments such as schools, universities and occasionally local police departments enforcing quarantines," authors of the CDC study note.

Those figures don’t include costs incurred by the patients, which are considerable as well. Measles sufferers often require hospitalization. They can get complications like pneumonia and encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can be deadly.

A Los Angeles hospital charged around $9,264 per patient during a resurgence of the infection in the 1990s, according to a 2004 report in the Journal of Infectious Diseases. That figure has no doubt risen in the intervening years.

Mumps: per CDC again: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf...ds/#table2

... it's about $11,000-$14,000 per hospitalisation. (Which, prior to vaccines, was about 55.8 per 1,000 cases.) For rubella, it's as wide as $4,000 to $48,000 per hospitalisation. (Of which, during the last epidemic in 1963, there were a good 32,000 ... those being the cases where women spontaneously aborted, the child was stillborn, or the child was born deformed).

On these, Big Pharma gets a double or triple whammy: it not only provides medicine to fight the disease, it also provides the associated medications such as analgesics, anaesthetics, etc, etc.

And that's also before you get to the cost of the complications that accompany these conditions, e.g. encephalitis in some cases of mumps, which raise the medical costs and therefore Big Pharma's take.

Dealing only with measles, let's assume they only spend about $40 all up for ibuprofen or aspirin or other medicines while sick, and that's the limit of Big Pharma's profit on the illness.

73 million kids aged 0-15 in the US (per this site https://www.childstats.gov/americaschild...s/pop1.asp) @ $40 per aspirin or other pain relief treatment taken = $2.92 billion per year.

vs.

the 10 million doses of MMR vaccine administered per year @ $250 each = $2.5 billion per year.

Bear in mind that comparison:
(a) is only comparing measles, not touching mumps or rubella's rates -- tens of thousands per year, and a lot more serious with higher hospitalisation rates than mumps or rubella; and
(b) does not include any costs where a person is hospitalised. For measles alone, before vaccines, roughly 48,000 people were hospitalised for measles per year, at a cost of $1,347 direct medical costs each.

Get the point? If we're going to "follow the money", it makes a shitload more financial sense for Big Pharma to suppress vaccinations than administer them, because they make more money from a hospitalisation or treatment of a disease than they do on preventing it happening. This is particularly so for measles, where literally every kid was contracting it or gets it at some point between the ages of 1 and 15.

Your cost analysis is off, because you assume that 100% of inoculated kids get hit with a debilitating ailment. This is not the case, it's more like 1% to 5%, and maybe another 10% that get hit with chronic symptoms. The other thing is that pain relief treatments are mostly generic drugs with very small profit margins. So the financial incentive to suppress vaccinations is not there.