Post: #151

(08-28-2014 04:37 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  My thought is this. Vaccines are why we got rid of diseases like polio and other crazy shit that killed tons of people in previous generations. In that sense vaccines are good and worth the risk.

On the flip side if you look at the "ingredients" or things in vaccines there's some pretty terrible shit in there. Also, though no concrete evidence necessarily there's some causality to at least suggest maybe they can cause other problems.

I think for things like polio and other things of course we should get vaccinated, for something like chicken pox I'd probably say fuckit, I'd prefer to put less shit in my kids bodies and chicken pox isn't going to kill them, I'll roll the dice and chance them getting chicken pox but polio, nope.

SOmething else interesting, as long as it's a very small minority who don't have vaccines does it really matter for them? I mean if one kid in a school doesn't have a vaccine but everyone else does where is he gonna catch polio from?

He's not if he's the only kid who doesn't have the vaccine and never encounters polio. The problems start when such thinking and practices becomes more widespread, however.

And smarter users than I will have to chime in on this, but isn't there a chance an unvaccinated person could catch a disease we've all been vaccinated against, have it mutate inside them, and then put the rest of us at risk?

Post: #152

Quote:SOmething else interesting, as long as it's a very small minority who don't have vaccines does it really matter for them? I mean if one kid in a school doesn't have a vaccine but everyone else does where is he gonna catch polio from?

He'll usually be fine. One thing that isn't very well known is that vaccines aren't actually 100% effective, but even if it doesn't work for you, if everybody has the vaccination you're unlikely to get sick. 'cause like you said, where are you going to get it from?
Of course, if too many people start refusing the vaccine, you'll get problems like the whooping cough epidemic in southern California last year.

But since we now know for a fact that the government has, at least in one incidence, lied about the negative effects of vaccines, I would imagine we're going to see a lot fewer people giving them to their children. Hell, after reading what I posted above I don't think I would give my kid an MMR vaccine.

Post: #153

(08-28-2014 04:40 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 04:37 PM)jamaicabound Wrote:  My thought is this. Vaccines are why we got rid of diseases like polio and other crazy shit that killed tons of people in previous generations. In that sense vaccines are good and worth the risk.

On the flip side if you look at the "ingredients" or things in vaccines there's some pretty terrible shit in there. Also, though no concrete evidence necessarily there's some causality to at least suggest maybe they can cause other problems.

I think for things like polio and other things of course we should get vaccinated, for something like chicken pox I'd probably say fuckit, I'd prefer to put less shit in my kids bodies and chicken pox isn't going to kill them, I'll roll the dice and chance them getting chicken pox but polio, nope.

SOmething else interesting, as long as it's a very small minority who don't have vaccines does it really matter for them? I mean if one kid in a school doesn't have a vaccine but everyone else does where is he gonna catch polio from?

He's not if he's the only kid who doesn't have the vaccine and never encounters polio. The problems start when such thinking and practices becomes more widespread, however.

And smarter users than I will have to chime in on this, but isn't there a chance an unvaccinated person could catch a disease we've all been vaccinated against, have it mutate inside them, and then put the rest of us at risk?

Just to be clear, I wasn't advocating people nto getting vaccinated and saying fucking because everyone else is, I just thought it was an interesting point to discuss. YOu also bring up a good point though. Also, if everyone had this mentality, which more and more are as it's now welll known vaccines are not "required" but you can opt out for religious reasons or whatever people are doing this so there's more of a risk.

Also with all the illegals comming into the country with no screening we're already seeing diseases and things comming into this country so I do think its smart to get vaccinated.

I still probably would say fuckit and not vaccinate my kid for minor things like chicken pox bot polio, hepatitis, hpv stuff I definately would.

Post: #154

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/28/health/mea...index.html

...Honestly, only way anti-vaccine people are going to learn is by seeing their own children get hurt. I feel bad for the kids, but seriously it seems like nothing else might.

That or mandate that the kid has a clearly visible sticker tagged to him saying he hasn't been vaccinated for X, Y and Z. Let's see how many people want to interact with that family if they knew.

Post: #155

Sad thing is, you know those anti-vaxxer parents don't give a damn if their choice harms someone else. They're like proto-SJWs on their moral high horse.

Post: #156

(01-29-2015 12:38 PM)Genghis Khan Wrote:  ...Honestly, only way anti-vaccine people are going to learn is by seeing their own children get hurt. I feel bad for the kids, but seriously it seems like nothing else might.

I live in a rural area of a developing country and have neighbors who haven't vaccinated their children against tetanus.

It's their call. I figure, making a new kid takes nine months and 10 minutes, so not a big deal if you lose a couple on the way, eh?

Post: #157

Just the fact that Jenny McCarthy believes theycause harm should be enough to persuade anyone to embrace vaccines.

Is there anyone lower on the list of people you'd take medical advice from?

Post: #158

(01-29-2015 08:52 PM)Lucky Wrote:  Just the fact that Jenny McCarthy believes theycause harm should be enough to persuade anyone to embrace vaccines.

Is there anyone lower on the list of people you'd take medical advice from?

Andrew Wakefield. Because Jenny McCarthy at least has the defence of her single brain cell having to do all the work.

Post: #159

(01-29-2015 08:52 PM)Lucky Wrote:  Just the fact that Jenny McCarthy believes theycause harm should be enough to persuade anyone to embrace vaccines.

Is there anyone lower on the list of people you'd take medical advice from?

Exactly. There aren't a lot of doctors I know of who recommend not getting vaccinated. So who should you take advice from: Your physician who went to a good medical school (if you're selecting physicians properly), or some bimbo who shows her tits on the internet.

Hmmm. I need to think about this one. Hold on...almost there...

Okay! Okay! I got it!! You know what?? I think I ought to take medical advice from trained medical professionals, not strangers on the internet with ambiguous agendas.

Whew! That was a tough one...

Post: #160

While I think that in general, vaccination is a valuable and important part of our culture, and that the anti-vaccination crew tend to be unreasonably critical of it, we shouldn't discount the fact that vaccines can occasionally cause harm.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_...Injury_Act

Post: #161

(01-29-2015 10:41 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  While I think that in general, vaccination is a valuable and important part of our culture, and that the anti-vaccination crew tend to be unreasonably critical of it, we shouldn't discount the fact that vaccines can occasionally cause harm.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_...Injury_Act

I have no difficulty with at least the concept of this in the sense of risk management: you eliminate the risks you can, and prepare for the worst on those risks that remain. The issue I have is solely with the asserted frequency of negative outcomes from vaccines. From memory the CDC only records one adverse outcome from the MMR that could be positively linked to the vaccine itself. Not one unit, not one million, one. And it's almost a law of physics that when free government money is put on the table, subject only to a person meeting certain criteria, you have a sudden bloom of people who say they meet the criteria when in fact they don't.

Post: #162

This website posits a good list of questions.

G

Post: #163

delete

Post: #164

(02-03-2015 11:41 AM)Geomann180 Wrote:  This website posits a good list of questions.

That comment section is a buzzing hive of conspiracy theories, it makes my head hurt. I've noticed when a conspiracy theorist rambles on about something I'm familiar with, it becomes painfully obvious they are full of shit and have no idea what they talking about, especially when you hear "there's a documentary about it on youtube". I'm not familiar with the medical field, but even without a doctors opinion, I would by default not listen to fat soccer moms who spend their time spamming the comment section of site that uses its own articles as its sources.

Post: #165

Vaccines: They’ve been controversial since forever. Luddites are going to be Luddites.

Post: #166

That's an unfair response.

That's like saying you don't believe any of the advice of Roissy on how to get women because his comments section tends to be a den of race baiters and potential storm troopers.

There's 21 questions there and you don't address a single one of them. Clearly your mind is made is already made up and arguing with you is as productive as arguing with a feminist, Simp.

G

(02-03-2015 12:28 PM)aSimpNamedBrokeback Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 11:41 AM)Geomann180 Wrote:  This website posits a good list of questions.

That comment section is a buzzing hive of conspiracy theories, it makes my head hurt. I've noticed when a conspiracy theorist rambles on about something I'm familiar with, it becomes painfully obvious they are full of shit and have no idea what they talking about, especially when you hear "there's a documentary about it on youtube". I'm not familiar with the medical field, but even without a doctors opinion, I would by default not listen to fat soccer moms who spend their time spamming the comment section of site that uses its own articles as its sources.

Post: #167

(01-29-2015 01:29 PM)NilNisiOptimum Wrote:  Sad thing is, you know those anti-vaxxer parents don't give a damn if their choice harms someone else. They're like proto-SJWs on their moral high horse.

I wanted to counter you by saying
"Harm you own kids into emotional/social/immune retardation"
But I'm aware of your ignorance on the topic, so I won't.


I don't care what anybody says. Red pill means to go from the natural gut, and don't follow the rest blindly.
My gut tells me that there is no man alive who will inject chemicals into my baby, the baby my natural instinct tells me to protect.
No matter how scared they try to get me into buying one (or 32) of their shots (with "zero" evidence of them actually helping to protect infants")

You need to start doing some research, and quit being led by fear tactics into cowardly invade your child's biological system. Injecting take's away
the chance for the child to develop a strong and self sufficient immune system. <== Look at this... cmon now.

I know this is a sensitive topic, we all love our kids I'm sure, so don't take this as me ignoring that you do.

Post: #168

"My gut tells me that there is no man alive who will inject chemicals into my baby, the baby my natural instinct tells me to protect."

Are you a woman? Men don't write like this.

Post: #169

(02-03-2015 03:16 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  "My gut tells me that there is no man alive who will inject chemicals into my baby, the baby my natural instinct tells me to protect."

Are you a woman? Men don't write like this.

yes its a broad

Post: #170

I got more manhood in my pinky, then both of you shit sacks combined. Now, back to the topic at hand.

Post: #171

Speaking for myself, I used to take vaccines since arriving here in the USA and tended to get terribly sick, to the point I had gross colds and even got called "mocoso". Yes, it even worsened my already-deviated septum and seasonal pollen allergies.

Since 2009, the only thing I had to deal with was my deviated septum and seasonal allergies.

Post: #172

Anti-vaxxers are maladjusted adults who are too arrogant to realize that the 12+ years of schooling doctors have to go through makes them much more qualified to supply worthwhile medical care to their children than themselves. They're so confident in the fact that their "research" (which of course never actually involves reading a peer-reviewed source paper, but does involve extensive viewings of a few popsci pieces written by conspiracy quacks) is more thorough than the combined weight of the entire medical establishment's that they are willing to bet the lives of their children and the overall health of the country on it.



I've come to believe that the only solution to this ever-growing cult of uneducated "experts" is to wait until their children come down with a preventable illness, and then take them away and put the parents in prison for neglect/child endangerment. If you want to make decisions against doctor's advise based upon your strange beliefs, fine, but if your kid gets sick because of it, you've willfully made the choice not to properly safeguard your child, and they should be taken away from you and cared for properly. (cue people arguing that this is a slippery slope, ignoring the fact that 'slippery slope' arguments are logical fallacies.)

Obviously this wouldn't apply to children with contraindications toward vaccination or suppressed immune systems, and unfortunately this plan would still endanger them due to the Luddite tendencies of a select number of antivax nutters, but it will impose consequences for poor parental behavior that results in the harm of the child.

Post: #173

(08-28-2014 04:40 PM)TheWastelander Wrote:  And smarter users than I will have to chime in on this, but isn't there a chance an unvaccinated person could catch a disease we've all been vaccinated against, have it mutate inside them, and then put the rest of us at risk?

Hypothetically, yes. It's not completely impossible, though it's certainly not particularly likely.

Post: #174

(02-03-2015 06:31 PM)Texas_Tryhard Wrote:  Anti-vaxxers are maladjusted adults who are too arrogant to realize that the 12+ years of schooling doctors have to go through makes them much more qualified to supply worthwhile medical care to their children than themselves. They're so confident in the fact that their "research" (which of course never actually involves reading a peer-reviewed source paper, but does involve extensive viewings of a few popsci pieces written by conspiracy quacks) is more thorough than the combined weight of the entire medical establishment's that they are willing to bet the lives of their children and the overall health of the country on it.

I'm a little skeptical of the value of the supposed "education" doctors have.

G

Post: #175

I was thinking about this today and I thought about Jonas Salk. Today Jonas Salk would probably be considered a villain and puppet of Big Pharma.

But back when polio was rampaging across the nation his vaccine was a gigantic breakthrough. He was considered a national hero.

So the only way this anti-vaccine movement is going to go away is if people's children start dying of this stuff at a greater rate. Back in those days when you had citywide quarantines and people you know were dying of disease you could only hope you wouldn't get it and that one day they'd come up with a cure or vaccine.