I guess the US supplied info to their puppets about forming a national guard.Wonder why they didn't tell Yanuk to form one? Any takers?
Now the East and west can't protest without the national guard beating them(like in US).
03-20-2014 10:47 AM
The following 1 user Likes jimukr104's post:1 user Likes jimukr104's post Tex Pro
Icarus
True Player
Posts: 2,288
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 44
(03-20-2014 08:09 AM)Parsifal Wrote: Why film this? Is Svoboda doing PR-work for Russia now? This shit will bite west in the ass sooner than later.
My first impression was similar.... and to me it does NOT really matter which side is acting the bully or engaging in thuggish behavior...
My initial questions were who is filming and why, is this film being allowed on purpose, and then why release it and then why broadcast it?
Of course, internally, I know some of the answers to my own questions... yet seeing the conduct still rubs a raw nerve in me to see how brutish people can behave in conflict situations and when their emotions are driving them to denigrate and/or control someone else... NO such thing as a fair fight when emotions get involved.
03-20-2014 02:04 PM
jimukr104
True Player
Posts: 2,311
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 32
(03-20-2014 08:09 AM)Parsifal Wrote: Why film this? Is Svoboda doing PR-work for Russia now? This shit will bite west in the ass sooner than later.
My first impression was similar.... and to me it does NOT really matter which side is acting the bully or engaging in thuggish behavior...
My initial questions were who is filming and why, is this film being allowed on purpose, and then why release it and then why broadcast it?
Of course, internally, I know some of the answers to my own questions... yet seeing the conduct still rubs a raw nerve in me to see how brutish people can behave in conflict situations and when their emotions are driving them to denigrate and/or control someone else... NO such thing as a fair fight when emotions get involved.
I assume its either:
1. another worker using their camera phone.
2. or there was a web cam/security cam on... to use to record gangsters who pop in lol.
03-20-2014 02:16 PM
The following 1 user Likes jimukr104's post:1 user Likes jimukr104's post JayJuanGee
(03-20-2014 08:09 AM)Parsifal Wrote: Why film this? Is Svoboda doing PR-work for Russia now? This shit will bite west in the ass sooner than later.
My first impression was similar.... and to me it does NOT really matter which side is acting the bully or engaging in thuggish behavior...
My initial questions were who is filming and why, is this film being allowed on purpose, and then why release it and then why broadcast it?
Of course, internally, I know some of the answers to my own questions... yet seeing the conduct still rubs a raw nerve in me to see how brutish people can behave in conflict situations and when their emotions are driving them to denigrate and/or control someone else... NO such thing as a fair fight when emotions get involved.
The heavy right wing only knows force, this is business as usual to them. What is normal protocol will make these goons look like thugs as with the West whom supports them in full.
03-20-2014 03:04 PM
jimukr104
True Player
Posts: 2,311
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 32
(03-20-2014 08:09 AM)Parsifal Wrote: Why film this? Is Svoboda doing PR-work for Russia now? This shit will bite west in the ass sooner than later.
My first impression was similar.... and to me it does NOT really matter which side is acting the bully or engaging in thuggish behavior...
My initial questions were who is filming and why, is this film being allowed on purpose, and then why release it and then why broadcast it?
Of course, internally, I know some of the answers to my own questions... yet seeing the conduct still rubs a raw nerve in me to see how brutish people can behave in conflict situations and when their emotions are driving them to denigrate and/or control someone else... NO such thing as a fair fight when emotions get involved.
The heavy right wing only knows force, this is business as usual to them. What is normal protocol will make these goons look like thugs as with the West whom supports them in full.
i read Red sector tried to steel trucks from a Russian company and then backed off because they were informed the trucks have been purchased by Kazakhstan.
Western Ukrainian thugs also raided and took over a Russian Vodka plant in western Ukraine.
Is this truly what USA supports?
03-20-2014 03:30 PM
Akula
True Player
Posts: 2,036
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 42
so hard to follow both sides but all my Russian friends seem to be happy that Crimea is part of Russian now. I still don't know what to think of the 'new' Ukrainian government but have my doubts. Of course the west like they as they basically kicked out Yanukovich. Putin's speech was pretty good but I hope he means what he said when he stated there were no more territorial claims in Eastern Ukraine by Russia.
Few oligarchs got sanctioned by the US today (e.g. the Gunvor guy, Rotenbergs etc.) I don't think that it matters all that much to these guys as long as the EU doesn't also freeze their assets and/or ban them from entry, but who knows. I don't really think any of the oligarchs have set up shop in the US that's for sure. Seems like since the EU has a lot more to lose they are treading more lightly than the US which is not surpising.
McCain got banned from entering Russia!
2015 RVF fantasy football champion
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2014 04:15 PM by Akula.)
03-20-2014 04:13 PM
The following 2 users Like Akula's post:2 users Like Akula's post jimukr104, Built to Fade
jimukr104
True Player
Posts: 2,311
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 32
They should make a new Russian law that allows them to claim certain people as state enemies and send out arrest squads for them, kind of like how Isreal use to do it.
For example Mc Cain gets listed as a criminal and Russian agents can actually grab(or kill) him when they get a chance. Lets see him leave Arizona then!
Anti Putin rant lol:
"Putin is the world's greatest danger. He has paid off the IMF, got the borrowing (not deficit mind you, but the borrowing) down to 9% of GDP, and pays millions of people, right across Russia, pensions every month
He makes speeches without a teleprompter, and has not even once chewed his tie.
Next thing you know, he will be setting up a World Bank that does not even care whether you trade in dollars or something else. The man is a tyrant I tell you, a tyrant."
03-20-2014 05:40 PM
jimukr104
True Player
Posts: 2,311
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 32
Eastern Ukraine is out of the question for visiting anytime soon.
"By the time the tear gas filled the van, I had already covered my face with my hoodie. I could feel tiny shards of glass in my mouth. The windows had been smashed. My friends were screaming. All I could think was, Am I going to die?
As stupid as it sounds, I didn’t think anything bad would happen to us in Ukraine. Our crew had been here twice before, for the documentary about an orphanage we were filming in Mariupol, a city far from the turbulence in Kiev and Crimea. People on the ground were telling us things were peaceful, and it appeared that the violence was isolated and perhaps being sensationalized by the media. I had to finish the documentary before all-out war ruined our chances of returning. It was a risk but, it seemed to me, a small one. We would avoid rallies. We weren’t looking for trouble.
This happened last Saturday, March 15, the day before the vote on the Crimean referendum for independence. We had just finished filming a crucial scene in a prison. A man named Gennadiy Mokhnenko, the subject of the documentary, was in the van with us when we came across the remains of what had been a pro-Russian protest hours earlier. We thought it could be valuable B-roll, but we were really only interested in how this struggle affected Gennadiy and his work with the orphanage. The crowd was small and dwindling, but we approached with caution anyway. I filmed some shots of police, a lady playing the accordion, some images of flags. I was satisfied and ready to move on. When I exited the area to regroup with the rest of the team, I found Gennadiy engaged in what seemed to be a heated conversation about us. We, a group of Americans, were personally being blamed for the events in Kiev’s Euromaidan. Our friend Filipp, who was translating for us, said that it was definitely time for us to go."
Quote:People on the ground were telling us things were peaceful, and it appeared that the violence was isolated and perhaps being sensationalized by the media
This stood out the most to me from the whole article. Everyone is telling me the same thing. Come everything is fine. Looking into it they are not American but I am. So of course everything is peaceful for them.
03-20-2014 08:55 PM
The following 1 user Likes calwinston's post:1 user Likes calwinston's post Tex Pro
Out of curiosity..does anyone ever read the comment section in posted media links?
People have NO clue out there what they talk about.
But seems most people hate Mc cain.
The 1994 non aggression treaty was violated twice before Russia did.
a.According to the treaty outside powers aren't suppose to intervene militarily or politically.
The US/EU interfered politically by supporting and funding the coup e tat. Yanuk even went on television and asked the west to keep out of their affairs. .He was the president and he accused the west of interfering politically.So that was a violation of treaty.
b. According to the treaty..Ukraine is suppose to have an adequate military to defend themselves. Obviously they decided to NOT fund and develop an adequate military.
So therefore US/EU and Ukraine itself violated the pact first.
More facts:
A.The coup e tat gov't wasn't voted in and aren't considered legit by 50% of the country including Crimea.
B.Crimea is an autonomous republic with its own gov't. They don't recognize the NEW fascist mob Kiev gov't and declared independence.it is up to them to decide if they think it is legit or not based on constitution. The coup e tat is against the constitution.
C.Russia doesn't recognize the new gov't and the elected president in exile asked Russia for help.
D. The Russians are already in Crimea, so they didn't invade(25k allowed) and decided to support and recognize the Crimean gov't.
The only thing the world could legitimately accuse Russia of, is getting involved in a civil war or another territory proclamation of independence.
Guess what?
NATO got involved in Yugoslavia.
US is involved in Syrian civil war now.
France helped America in revolutionary war.
European powers supported the confederacy.
The precedents are already there!
03-21-2014 12:36 PM
JayJuanGee
International Playboy
Posts: 5,973
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 74
(03-21-2014 12:36 PM)jimukr104 Wrote: Out of curiosity..does anyone ever read the comment section in posted media links?
People have NO clue out there what they talk about.
But seems most people hate Mc cain.
The 1994 non aggression treaty was violated twice before Russia did.
a.According to the treaty outside powers aren't suppose to intervene militarily or politically.
The US/EU interfered politically by supporting and funding the coup e tat. Yanuk even went on television and asked the west to keep out of their affairs. .He was the president and he accused the west of interfering politically.So that was a violation of treaty.
b. According to the treaty..Ukraine is suppose to have an adequate military to defend themselves. Obviously they decided to NOT fund and develop an adequate military.
So therefore US/EU and Ukraine itself violated the pact first.
More facts:
A.The coup e tat gov't wasn't voted in and aren't considered legit by 50% of the country including Crimea.
B.Crimea is an autonomous republic with its own gov't. They don't recognize the NEW fascist mob Kiev gov't and declared independence.it is up to them to decide if they think it is legit or not based on constitution. The coup e tat is against the constitution.
C.Russia doesn't recognize the new gov't and the elected president in exile asked Russia for help.
D. The Russians are already in Crimea, so they didn't invade(25k allowed) and decided to support and recognize the Crimean gov't.
The only thing the world could legitimately accuse Russia of, is getting involved in a civil war or another territory proclamation of independence.
Guess what?
NATO got involved in Yugoslavia.
US is involved in Syrian civil war now.
France helped America in revolutionary war.
European powers supported the confederacy.
The precedents are already there!
I get the sense that Americans on the left and the right are beginning to become quite irritated by getting drug into various conflicts around the world... and people are catching on somewhat that these conflicts seem to be drains on the USA treasury that only benefit a few people. Yeah, lets get back into the cold war... right?
It also begins to seem senseless when we seem to be meddling into the affairs of others and the logic of western interest just does NOT seem to pan out... even when a person may be patriotic and trying to give the benefit of the doubt to USA leaders. Putin's various arguments seem more plausible, and then why are we potentially going to be ramping up our military spending and/or intervention b/c of a cold war desire? Seems like a step backwards.
The writer Dimitri Orlov was quoted over in the other Ukraine thread a while back and he has penned an instructive article this week on the Ukraine-Crimea situation pertaining to economic, social and geoplotical concerns. I suggust reading all of it, but some excerpts are below. It echoes DaveR's sound rebuttals of Hencredible's spurious logic earlier in this thread.
The Madness of President Putin
Of all the various interpretations Western leaders and commentators have offered for why the president of the Russian Federation has responded the way he has to the events in Ukraine over the course of February and March of 2014—in refusing to acquiesce to the installation of a neo-fascist regime in Kiev, and in upholding the right of Crimea to self-determination—the most striking and illuminating interpretation is that he has gone mad. Striking and illuminating, that is, something in the West itself.
...
During the post-collapse period Russia could offer no competing ideology. In fact, it had no ideology at all, except for an implant of Western liberalism which, given a lack of a viable legal framework or traditions of private property and civil society, quickly turned into a particularly brutal brand of gangsterism. But then Putin came along and, using his experience in the KGB and connections with other post-Soviet “power ministeries,” he crafted a new order, which first decimated and either supplanted or absorbed the gangsters, and then imposed what Putin has termed “the dictatorship of the law.” This is the first important piece of the new Russian ideology: law matters and nobody can be above it—not even the United States.
Now, compare the concept of the “dictatorship of the law,” domestic as well as international, as it is promulgated by Putin, to the sort of law which now prevails in the United States. In the US, there are now two categories of persons. There are those who are above the law: the US government and its agencies, including NSA, FBI, DOD, etc.; Wall Street financiers and shadowy government contractors who are never prosecuted for their crimes; the über-rich who are politically connected and can prevail legally against anyone simply by throwing money at lawyers.
And then there are those who are below the law: everyone else. These are some of the most sheepish people in the world, living in constant fear of getting sued and stripped of their savings—or arrested, intimidated into accepting a plea bargain, and locked up. They can now be detained indefinitely without a charge. They can be kidnapped from anywhere in the world, transported to a “black site” and tortured. They can be put on trial without being informed of the charge and convicted based on evidence that is kept secret from them. Their communities can be placed under martial law without cause. Individually, they can be shot on sight with no provocation of suspicion of wrongdoing. Abroad, when wedding parties and funerals are taken out by misguided drone strikes, that's a war crime—unless Washington is behind it, in which case it is just “collateral damage.”
....
Again, let's compare it to the state of affairs that now prevails in the US, where President Obama announced during this year's state of the union address that, since Congress won't cooperate with him, he plans to rule by decree (“executive order,” in American bureaucratese). In response, Congress is now drafting legislation that aims to compel the Obama administration to enforce acts of Congress. Apparently, they misplaced all their copies of the US constitution, which already describes this very process in considerable detail. Their studied appearance of endless legislative gridlock appears to be a veil designed to obscure the real work of distributing misappropriated funds among their campaign donors—funds that now run into trillions of dollars a year. Add to this the fact that half of US Congress has pledged allegiance to Israel. In Russian eyes, the US is neither sovereign nor a democracy; it is the festering corpse of a democracy being fed on by the world's fattest vultures.
...
Even the muddle-headed John Kerry was recently heard to concede that Russia has “legitimate interests” in Ukraine. In challenging Russia over Ukraine the West isn't just crossing some imaginary “red line” that Obama is so fond of proclaiming again and again. In installing a neo-fascist, rabidly anti-Russian regime in Kiev, it has crossed the double-yellow, guaranteeing a head-on collision. Question is, which side will survive that collision: the Russian tank column, or John Kerry's limo? The West's opening gambit is to deny visas and freeze accounts of certain Russian officials and businessmen, who either don't have bank accounts in the West or have already pulled the money out last Friday (to the tune of a couple hundred billion dollars) and aren't planning to travel to the US.
I was watching CNN for shits n giggles the other day and couldn't help but notice they only allotted a 2 or 3 minute, extremely vague explaination on their news story of "Russians Invade Ukrainian Naval Base". It was then drowned out by their nearly 24/7 intense coverage of the obviously situationally irrelevant missing Malaysian flight.
From how CNN presents and "explains" it, there's a potentially international conflict dawning yet they're preponderantly concerned with a missing plane.
The whole Western media is BS thing just settled, thoroughly.
03-21-2014 05:04 PM
The following 1 user Likes RCP's post:1 user Likes RCP's post Built to Fade
Home
RooshV.com
Search (Via Forum)
Member List
This shit will bite west in the ass sooner than later.
![[-]](images/collapse.gif)
The following 1 user Likes jimukr104's post:
RE: Ukraine conflict lounge 
