Post: #301

(03-17-2014 07:29 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  A large amount of people, in that area, do believe they are Russian even if they were born in Ukraine.

Yes, I know. But the answer one gets depends on the question. If I go walk around Simferopol and ask people what their homeland is and the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, I will get different results than if the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, c) Russian Federation.

Yes, Ukraine is complicated. I know a girl from Lviv who's ethnically Russian, comes from a Russian family who moved to Lviv after WWII, and she's a fierce Ukrainian nationalist. People's political inclinations will depend not only on their bloodline, but also on their environment and especially on their social circles.

Post: #302

(03-17-2014 07:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Let's relax our emotions and learn from the Hencredible incident barely a week ago.

What is the HC situation? I recall reading the post in this thread that HC was suspended for 3 days; however, it has been more than a week, and there still remains a line through his name... There must be some other developments, no?

Post: #303

(03-17-2014 07:45 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:29 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  A large amount of people, in that area, do believe they are Russian even if they were born in Ukraine.

Yes, I know. But the answer one gets depends on the question. If I go walk around Simferopol and ask people what their homeland is and the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, I will get different results than if the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, c) Russian Federation.

Yes, Ukraine is complicated. I know a girl from Lviv who's ethnically Russian, comes from a Russian family who moved to Lviv after WWII, and she's a fierce Ukrainian nationalist. People's political inclinations will depend not only on their bloodline, but also on their environment and especially on their social circles.

I take it you don't have much on the ground experience since you did not answer my question.

You are basically saying the same thing that has been said over and over again which is one of the core problems in Ukraine.

West versus East and how they identify themselves. East is pro Russian and would identify themselves as Russian, West would identify themselves as Ukrainian and be pro west. It doesn't matter why they feel that way, it simply is what it is. Talking about environment and social circles is nice and all but that doesn't change reality.

Most of your arguments are about semantics and simply muddy the discussion.

Post: #304

(03-17-2014 07:40 PM)gosh Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:35 PM)Vicious Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 05:18 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Vicious: the link you shared claiming 123% of people voted is from a Ukraine newspaper. Do you have any other sources on that claim?

The source is from the actual referendum (which is pictured) so I don't know how you can get more official than that.

Here's one showing the same referendum:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...&sandbox=1

The statement that 123% people voted is a lie that's already have been debunked. If you speak Russian watch this from about 3 min mark:





Summary: total count given by election officials was not 1 724 563 as claimed in "123%" article, but 1 524 563. In Sevastopol 274 136 instead of 474 137 claimed.

So, there is no 123%.

OK... .So then what was the approximate percentage of turnout for the vote? IN the 90 percentile? That would still be a pretty high turnout, on such short notice, no?

Despite the multitude of contention in this thread, everyone should likely agree to the obvious that if the turn out were 123%, that would be impossible... but it is surely a hilarious misinformation piece that secessionist naysayers want to harp upon as a tactic, even if untrue.. keep repeating... An example that too many emotions cause losses of facts.

Post: #305

As far as poosy paradise goes, don't you think it is better for Crimea and East Ukraine to go to Russia? It seems to me this will insulate Crimea from the feminism, pro-homosexual sentiment, and multiculturalism that will over take Ukraine as they move towards the EU. Fat feminists, slut walks, and mass muslim immigration could be in store for the parts of Ukraine that wish to join Europe instead of Russia.

Post: #306

(03-17-2014 08:40 PM)Galnuc69 Wrote:  As far as poosy paradise goes, don't you think it is better for Crimea and East Ukraine to go to Russia?

Good question. Another question: Will there be a KaZantip Festival in 2014?

Their website contains no info on how the Russian occupation will change things.

Their VKontakte page makes fun of Sunday's referendum.

Post: #307

The War Nerd: Everything you know about Crimea is wrong(-er):

http://pando.com/2014/03/17/the-war-nerd...-wrong-er/

Post: #308

(03-17-2014 08:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  OK... .So then what was the approximate percentage of turnout for the vote? IN the 90 percentile? That would still be a pretty high turnout, on such short notice, no?

82% turnout per officials, with 95% voting for Russia. This is still high, but I find quite believable given amount of enthusiasm for this in Crimea.

(03-17-2014 08:00 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  but it is surely a hilarious misinformation piece

indeed. another example that even it's an outright lie, but you repeat it many times in the media and it may convince or at least raise doubt in some people minds.

Post: #309

(03-17-2014 07:53 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:45 PM)Icarus Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 07:29 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  A large amount of people, in that area, do believe they are Russian even if they were born in Ukraine.

Yes, I know. But the answer one gets depends on the question. If I go walk around Simferopol and ask people what their homeland is and the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, I will get different results than if the options are a) Ukraine, b) Republic of Crimea, c) Russian Federation.

Yes, Ukraine is complicated. I know a girl from Lviv who's ethnically Russian, comes from a Russian family who moved to Lviv after WWII, and she's a fierce Ukrainian nationalist. People's political inclinations will depend not only on their bloodline, but also on their environment and especially on their social circles.

I take it you don't have much on the ground experience since you did not answer my question.

You are basically saying the same thing that has been said over and over again which is one of the core problems in Ukraine.

West versus East and how they identify themselves. East is pro Russian and would identify themselves as Russian, West would identify themselves as Ukrainian and be pro west. It doesn't matter why they feel that way, it simply is what it is. Talking about environment and social circles is nice and all but that doesn't change reality.

Most of your arguments are about semantics and simply muddy the discussion.

It gets worst. .you can have one chick say she is Ukrainian and her sister say she is Russian. Like my wife said.. its the individual's choice what she considers herself.Not everyone in same family has to agree.
The communists fucked things up first and then Yushchenko and his nationalist Ukrainization program. It wasn't until about 2005 that it became a political correctness thing for them, in the east and south.
In the west ..got ignored for talking Russia even back in 2001.

Post: #310

So what's the deal with paying Crimean's pensions? Kiev will abdicate that responsibility even though they still claim Crimea is part of Ukraine. Kind of playing it both ways. Of course they'll say they can't since Russia controls it. When will Russia start paying the people?

What about bank savings... they get converted into Rubles and Russia basically guarantees them?

Post: #311

I'm hoping David Cameron lets the rest of the UK vote on the Scottish referendum seeing as he is demanding that Ukraine have a say in Crimean cessation.

Post: #312

(03-17-2014 10:28 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  It gets worst. .you can have one chick say she is Ukrainian and her sister say she is Russian. Like my wife said.. its the individual's choice what she considers herself.Not everyone in same family has to agree.

There will always be a minority who think differently. I have never been to a place where 100% of the people think the same way.

Post: #313

(03-17-2014 11:00 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  So what's the deal with paying Crimean's pensions? Kiev will abdicate that responsibility even though they still claim Crimea is part of Ukraine. Kind of playing it both ways. Of course they'll say they can't since Russia controls it. When will Russia start paying the people?

What about bank savings... they get converted into Rubles and Russia basically guarantees them?

From some quick glances at some news sources, it looks like the local government has take ownership of all state property. I doubt banking will be any different since many banks are international.

The Ukraine government doesn't recognize the annexation and I would assume continue paying any pensions. Even if they don't agree, the people are still Ukrainians unless they officially gave up citizenship.

It's interesting to see this type of land grab and how it will play out. China has been trying to get a territory that is officially Philippines. Supposedly it has some oil in that area. I wonder how this will inspire China. There seems to be no push back besides sanctions.

Post: #314

Looks like this section of the forum is going to have to be re-named- "Russia Conflict Lounge" or "WWIII"

Post: #315

(03-18-2014 07:24 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 11:00 PM)Big Nilla Wrote:  So what's the deal with paying Crimean's pensions? Kiev will abdicate that responsibility even though they still claim Crimea is part of Ukraine. Kind of playing it both ways. Of course they'll say they can't since Russia controls it. When will Russia start paying the people?

What about bank savings... they get converted into Rubles and Russia basically guarantees them?

From some quick glances at some news sources, it looks like the local government has take ownership of all state property. I doubt banking will be any different since many banks are international.

The Ukraine government doesn't recognize the annexation and I would assume continue paying any pensions. Even if they don't agree, the people are still Ukrainians unless they officially gave up citizenship.

It's interesting to see this type of land grab and how it will play out. China has been trying to get a territory that is officially Philippines. Supposedly it has some oil in that area. I wonder how this will inspire China. There seems to be no push back besides sanctions.

Although I think the Russians had a good reasons for what they did..I will miss Crimea(more the fact that i did't buy there--odessa sucks).
For Ukrainians it is the same as us losing Florida and DIsney land.
But isn't Ukraine obligated to pay pensions?US Social security even pays residents after they leave the country.
That being said the pensioners have been promised Russian pensions.. which are 2.5x that of Ukraine i think.. or a bit less.
The new scam now is moving to Crimea so they can get pensions(seriously this is being discussed). Retirement age is younger in Russia and requires only 5 years of work credits.So becoming Crimean has advantages for some folks.
This is like the scam Russians/Ukrainians do when they immigrate to NYC. They end up getting US S.S. checks and then spend most of the year back in FSU.

Post: #316

VICE News's latest dispatch:

Post: #317

Annex speech
http://www.washingtonpost.com/posttv/wor...video.html
More Craig articles..
http://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Two-S...17-20.html

http://www.opednews.com/articles/95-7-of...16-95.html

Post: #318

Great article here from Peter Hitchens (my favourite writer) on the issues surrounding the validity of the referendum in the Crimea.

It is Hitchens at his best - he is such a smart guy.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2...rimea.html

Post: #319

So far White House is being completely inept as usual; dropping Sanctions on Russians who don't even have property or money in USA:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...sanctions/

Quote:Rogozin, a friend of actor Steven Seagal, took to Twitter to tweak Obama, tweeting he thinks “some prankster” came up with the sanctions list
In a later tweet addressed to “Comrade @BarackObama,” he asked, “what should do those who have neither accounts nor property abroad? Or U didn’t think about it?”

Another Russian on the sanctions list, Vladislav Surkov, also seemed unconcerned.
Surkov, a top Putin ideologue often called the Kremlin’s grey cardinal, reportedly told a Russian newspaper, “It’s a big honor for me. I don’t have accounts abroad. The only things that interest me in the U.S. are Tupac Shakur, Allen Ginsberg, and Jackson Pollock. I don’t need a visa to access their work. I lose nothing.”

Post: #320

Am I missing something?

A mob overthrew a democratically elected president.

And now Crimea has responded by freely voting to join Russia.

How is Putin the bad guy in this?

Post: #321

Putin's speech today was brilliant. Even my parents were saying so. Even they are on Russia's side now in regards to the sanctions etc.

Post: #322

I SUPPORT PUTIN BECAUSE I SUPPORT DEMOCRACY

Post: #323

Post: #324

The foreign policy advisor to Obama, Zbigniew Brzezinski, wrote about the geopolitical importance of Ukraine back in 1997:

http://original.antiwar.com/chris_ernest...e-in-1997/

Before Obama came to power - Webster Tarpley had an interesting video explaining how Brzezinski would set the geopolitical goals for the Obama presidency.

Post: #325

(03-18-2014 04:10 PM)Teedub Wrote:  Putin's speech today was brilliant. Even my parents were saying so. Even they are on Russia's side now in regards to the sanctions etc.

Funny but when you hear him speak you can see why he is liked by majority of people. He isn't some crazy screaming Hitler or Saddam Hussein. He is thoughtful, articulate and makes funny jokes.
Is he really an ruthless evil guy?

"glad our western partners remember about international law, better late than never" lol